Health reform is needed

[SKing]

I talked to my sister in law who worked in the maternity ward in the Jose Maria Cabral hospital for three years and she says their are good and bad doctors and nurses just like there are good and bad people in life but that from what she has seen most try to be professional and as sensitive as possible to the patients condition.

With regard to the treatment of women in the maternity ward, she says the doctors will yell at the mothers to motivate them to push in order to give birth because it is understood that if the child remains too long that they can be hurt.

Ok....this is the last one and I will just have to take the wrath of Dr. McDonald.
W. T. F. ?????

YELL AT THEM TO MOTIVATE THEM TO PUSH?!?
How bout you tell tour sister in law that she may think that we are as dumb as some of those docs but I can assure you, I AM NOT.
Yelling at a woman,screaming, and slapping them (YES SLAPPING!) doesn't motivate anything. How about encouraging words....tell her to teach these sentences to those docs
"Si se puede!"
"Eres fuerte, lo puedes hacer!"
"Mira, que buen trabajo!"
"Estoy muy orgullosa de ti! Sigue!"
THAT'S MOTIVATION.....

AND THE SECOND THING I WON'T EVEN ADDRESS....a child staying in too long, they can be hurt. I hope she is not as stupid as she sounds. Please tell her to stay in urology, and how about taking some of those OBs with her.
THIS IS WHY DR WILL NOT PROGRESS IN MEDICINE....LIES BEING TOLD OVER AND OVER AND OVER UNTIL NOONE REMEMBERS THE TRUTH ANYMORE.
Babies.....come......out. And they don't need some nurse, or doctor, or anybody yelling screaming slapping tugging pulling, etc on their mom to do it.
Tell her to pick up a book and stop being a servant nurse, believing everything that is told to her. That's the difference between THEM and US.....U.S. nurses are autonomous, we study, we evaluate, we decipher the information that is givfn to us....we don't just listen to a doc and spit back out what they say

Que verguenza! And you can call her again and tell her I said it

SHALENA




P.S. I know, I know, I lost......

 

[Chip]

First Shalena, I told you what my sister in law nurse understood as told by others while working as a nurse. Yes the system here is lacking in education but there is no reason to get personal and offensive.

Furthermore, with your demeaning and offensive attitude I seriously doubt you will get very far here in the DR with your plans if you plan to include Dominicans because I doubt they will tolerate you. You better stick to just working with gringos and you guys can have a blast laughing at the primitive and backwards Dominicans.

 

[cobraboy]

Ok....this is the last one and I will just have to take the wrath of Dr. McDonald.
W. T. F. ?????

YELL AT THEM TO MOTIVATE THEM TO PUSH?!?
How bout you tell tour sister in law that she may think that we are as dumb as some of those docs but I can assure you, I AM NOT.
Yelling at a woman,screaming, and slapping them (YES SLAPPING!) doesn't motivate anything. How about encouraging words....tell her to teach these sentences to those docs
"Si se puede!"
"Eres fuerte, lo puedes hacer!"
"Mira, que buen trabajo!"
"Estoy muy orgullosa de ti! Sigue!"
THAT'S MOTIVATION.....

AND THE SECOND THING I WON'T EVEN ADDRESS....a child staying in too long, they can be hurt. I hope she is not as stupid as she sounds. Please tell her to stay in urology, and how about taking some of those OBs with her.
THIS IS WHY DR WILL NOT PROGRESS IN MEDICINE....LIES BEING TOLD OVER AND OVER AND OVER UNTIL NOONE REMEMBERS THE TRUTH ANYMORE.
Babies.....come......out. And they don't need some nurse, or doctor, or anybody yelling screaming slapping tugging pulling, etc on their mom to do it.
Tell her to pick up a book and stop being a servant nurse, believing everything that is told to her. That's the difference between THEM and US.....U.S. nurses are autonomous, we study, we evaluate, we decipher the information that is givfn to us....we don't just listen to a doc and spit back out what they say

Que verguenza! And you can call her again and tell her I said it

SHALENA




P.S. I know, I know, I lost......

Shalana, you're gonna get smacked down Big Time if you come to the DR with that attitude and try working with folks who consider themselves professional.

Your mission will be a complete failure no matter how well intended, and you will have ****ed in the water for others who come after you're gone.

 

[SKing]

First Shalena, I told you what my sister in law nurse understood as told by others while working as a nurse. Yes the system here is lacking in education but there is no reason to get personal and offensive.

Furthermore, with your demeaning and offensive attitude I seriously doubt you will get very far here in the DR with your plans if you plan to include Dominicans because I doubt they will tolerate you. You better stick to just working with gringos and you guys can have a blast laughing at the primitive and backwards Dominicans.

Actually, I think we will get very far as soon as one or two women who have had a baby before in your precious hospital has a birth in a clean, safe, comfortable environment where no one yells at them or slaps them around. Where we will check their cervix discreetly or in private....where they can relieve themselves in a clean bathroom. Where they can labor with their husbands beside them, when instead of being told "shut up" they will be told "you can do it! You're doing great". Where after they deliver their babies aren't snatched from them and taken to be crammed up in a small nursery. Where after birth they will be cleaned with warm water and antimicrobial soap instead of having stagnant cold water thrown between their legs, where they will be given breastfeeding support instead of being told that babies get no nourishment from the breast until 3 days old. Where everyone in contact with mom and baby will be taught the importance of washing their hands. Where they will sleep comfortably on a full size bed instead of 2 bleeding moms stuffed into 1 postpartum hospital bed. Where they will be given a "discharge" pack to tack home to include whaever they may need for baby care and hygiene for their first week. Where a Midwife will hug them and tell them they did a great job and what great moms they are! Oh yes.....now that I think about it....they will probably go running and screaming away from us.

SHALENA

 

[Chip]

I just hope your manner in person is not 1/10th as offensive as it is on this forum with regard to this topic.

 

[SKing]

Shalana, you're gonna get smacked down Big Time if you come to the DR with that attitude and try working with folks who consider themselves professional.

Your mission will be a complete failure no matter how well intended, and you will have ****ed in the water for others who come after you're gone.

CB....I avoid ignorance. My other midwife spent a lot of time with certain docs there, including the director. They wanted to listen, they wanted to change. But there are some that do not, those are not the ones we care about. We already have 2 who are going to be on our board of directors, they appreciate what we are trying to do. One woman OB that the Midwives actually can't atop talking about because she was so great.
When someone wants to listen then those are the ones you teach. Deanna taught them that they did not have to be so rough. Some were receptive, some were not. Do I need to be friends with every OB....no. Do I need to see a few willing to change? Yes. And I do....those are the ones we are worried about. Not the ones you keep mentioning who went to med school solely to be called "doctor".
I have felt your negativity through the screen ever since I began to speak of the Birth Center, you act like my allegiance is to.an MD. It is not..
We have more people behind us than you think and if it flops, it flops, but it won't be for lack of effort. Thank you again for your concern in whether or not I will make it, you will be the first I call if I don't

And the first I call if I do..

SHALENA

"You have never really lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you"

 

[SKing]

I just hope your manner in person is not 1/10th as offensive as it is on this forum with regard to this topic.

The truth is always offensive to you Chip, you know me by now, I could care less about what you think of me and my attitude. WOMEN ARE DYING..BABIES ARE DYING....excuse my attitude. I just hope you don't have q family member in a medical emergency and they reach the hospital before your wallet or your sister in law.

SHALENA

 

[Chip]

The truth is always offensive to you Chip, you know me by now, I could care less about what you think of me and my attitude. WOMEN ARE DYING..BABIES ARE DYING....excuse my attitude. I just hope you don't have q family member in a medical emergency and they reach the hospital before your wallet or your sister in law.

SHALENA

Shalena, it hardly matters what I think for you to implement your plan.

 

[SKing]

Smartest thing you've written all day....kudos.

SHALENA

 

[Chip]

Smartest thing you've written all day....kudos.

SHALENA

I wish I could say the same for you.

 

[Acira]

Shalena, you are obvious very passionate, no doubt about it.
I found the slide show very good and very informative.

It reminded me of my several trips to central and west Africa to little villages with of course a visit to the local 'clinic' since, although not being a nurse, but coming from within the health sector, always interested to see how those little clinics in third world countries carry on.
Of course there are many many things in third world countries that can be improved but sometimes in looking a bit closer, you find the most amazing things.
In one of the clinics I visited, there was one little dirty, rusty old fridge who contained some antibiotics and other liquids that needed to be stored at fridge temperature. Can you see the look on my face when I opened that little fridge standing in a little room on a piece of carton on a dirt floor and inside the fridge was taped a paper where a nursing assistant put down at exactly 9 am and again at 4 pm, every day what the fridge temperature was that day and this was done every day? Now, I am not going into the discussion of how accurate that fridge thermometer was, how frequently it was calibrated and etc...but the very fact that this was done every day and signed off at the end of the month when the doctor visited the village, was for me a sign that, even with limited equipment and staff and limited knowledge but with the right attitude and in this particular case it was ONE visit with ONE training day on basic health rules by an European doctor/nursing/lab team who could inspire in a positive way that nursing assistant by just the tiny little fact that she could write, you can make a difference.

I too have seen much much worser later on, but I always remembered that one visit and the chat I had with that very proud nursing assistant and used it in my advantage to turn things, in my case more on the technical side of health care but still equally important for the health of the patient.

Just wanted to say that you have to look for the positive elements here too and they are here and USE those to make your project work.
You speak with your hart and that is admirable but use your common sense to get things working.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[SKing]

I understand Acira, and fully understand that my passion gets the best if me....a lot. I just feel a sickening in my stomach when people repeat the sane lies over and over to the detriment of another human being. I tried to make sure that at the beginning of the thread that I stared that people are working long hours without supplies, and sometimes without pay but that was overlooked for someone to but in and try to make green pastures where there aren't any. Maybe if I didn't know that the majority of women and babies that die there due from TOTALLY PREVENTABLE CAUSES. Maybe if a life didn't mean so much to me, I could just go around promoting a hospital where even the simplest act of handwashing is not considered.
We will continue to work with the doctors who listen and have a positive attitude for change. If every doctor in DR just washed their hands between patients, do you know how much the death rate would plummet! I've never been one to care what people think of me when it cones to my beliefs....I am also the Infection prevention resource nurse for the OR here, whenever I come down the hall doctors start scrubbing their hands with the purell sanitizer....I make them put on gloves before theey touch a patient and they hate it even though it only takes 2 seconds...."Sh*t Shalena!", I hear that so many times per day I think the phrase is my name. My area of the OR (Neurovascular surgery) has the lowest rate of SSIs (surgical site infections).
So Chip can get made because I outed his sister in law for repeating una estupidez, Cobra may get upset because he wants me to go to all the hospitals and Damn near sleep with the docs but maybe now that sister in law may go tell someone else what I said, and they'll tell someone else, who'll tell an OB.....and maybe, just maybe....one less mom has to take footprints home instead of her baby.

SHALENA

 

[Chip]

If I were a health care professional, which I'm not, and truly was trying to help the public hospitals here in the DR I would try to understand that they have very low paid workers and low funding and that there might be some cultural issues ignorant to our tastes and or experience tied to certain practices, such as yelling at pregnant women in labor, as opposed to an immediate assumption that doctors and nurses could care less about patients.

Furthermore, instead of ridiculing to the 9th degree everything Dominican to do with health care on a public forum I would focus my energy on implementing an exchange plan with a hospital in the States and say the one here in Santiago where equipment is donated and new techniques are taught to the health professionals in a professional yet not demeaning and offensive way. Who knows, there would probably be some WHO or USAID money out there available to support this effort and maybe the director of said hospital here in Santiago could have a trip paid for to the States. New equipment, intermingling of friendly doctors teaching state of the art techniques and practices and free all paid trips for the director would go a lot farther for implementing change than ridicule and criticism imho, but what do I know?

 

[Acira]

There is some really sound advice given here and I can and want only stress out one of them from own experience.

In my home country, I could curse a doctor in front of me and in front of a lot of people, especially a newbie if he pumped up the pressure meter so high and so long that the arm of the patient was turning purple. I didn't care if he did it out of feeling unsecure or trying to impress...bull**** for me!

But...in third world countries, doctors are people of standing and whatever you may think or them, you cannot leave any of them out.
I cannot stress enough the fact that they have THE status whether you or for that matter, I too, like it or not, they are a power that you have to take into account, point.

Do the practical things to get your project working but be sure that the MAIN man or woman is always in the picture and you are good to go.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Acira

And to the OP who started this thread I give my deepest condolences.

 

[wuarhat]

is your wife doing better?

Yes, thanks. She's doing much better.

 

[LaLouve]

Hi All,

Shalena, that XRay room door got to me, not to mention the plastic covers. There must be a lost of infection that could be easily prevented. Training, training and more training is needed, but also compassion towards the patients.
Few years ago, my mom got Guillain-Barr? Syndrome, had it not been for her determination and money she would have never made it. First thing the staff of the neuro clinic wanted to see the money, and the immunoglobuline treatment had to be bought from the Red Crescent only with authorization from since they keep a certain volume for younger patients. She insisted on walking right, started physiotherapy in the clinic and then outside. When I went to get her and brought her back to Canada. The first doctor we saw was a &^(*&(*& telling me that, we, in Africa and even Doctors in the USA sometimes misdiagnosise patient. How could Guillain-Barre be misdiagnosed especially that a spinal tap had to be done to confirm the case? They redid the tests and her GBS was once again confirmed and she stayed for six months in another facility learning how to stand up by herself, lay down on a bed, dress up and so on. Without money as she puts it, she would have died.
I really feel for those less fortunate who have to wait, beg for treatment and nobody in need of treatment should beg for it, not when their life is in danger.

 

[dulce]

I suggest SKing start her own thread on the subject of the new Midwife's group forming in the DR. This could be made a sticky by the moderators. If this is done than every other thread about health care does not turn into a rant about her good cause.
For example this thread was started by someone who is in deep pain about thier father's death as a result of bad health care in the DR. It should not have turned into a shouting match about bad health care concerning giving birth in the DR.

My condolences to the OP. The loss of a parent is a very difficult time in one's life. May your father rest in peace. May you find joy in your fond memories of him during his whole life. I wish for you that in time the negative memories of the circumstances at time of his passing are softened by your positive memories of him.

 

[dulce]

PS For those checking reading and writing comprehension in this thread...please excuse my typos.

 

[LaLouve]

I suggest SKing start her own thread on the subject of the new Midwife's group forming in the DR. This could be made a sticky by the moderators. If this is done than every other thread about health care does not turn into a rant about her good cause.
For example this thread was started by someone who is in deep pain about thier father's death as a result of bad health care in the DR. It should not have turned into a shouting match about bad health care concerning giving birth in the DR.

My condolences to the OP. The loss of a parent is a very difficult time in one's life. May your father rest in peace. May you find joy in your fond memories of him during his whole life. I wish for you that in time the negative memories of the circumstances at time of his passing are softened by your positive memories of him.

I totally agree with you Dulce.

 

[cobraboy]

CB....I avoid ignorance. My other midwife spent a lot of time with certain docs there, including the director. They wanted to listen, they wanted to change. But there are some that do not, those are not the ones we care about. We already have 2 who are going to be on our board of directors, they appreciate what we are trying to do. One woman OB that the Midwives actually can't atop talking about because she was so great.
When someone wants to listen then those are the ones you teach. Deanna taught them that they did not have to be so rough. Some were receptive, some were not. Do I need to be friends with every OB....no. Do I need to see a few willing to change? Yes. And I do....those are the ones we are worried about. Not the ones you keep mentioning who went to med school solely to be called "doctor".
I have felt your negativity through the screen ever since I began to speak of the Birth Center, you act like my allegiance is to.an MD. It is not..
We have more people behind us than you think and if it flops, it flops, but it won't be for lack of effort. Thank you again for your concern in whether or not I will make it, you will be the first I call if I don't

And the first I call if I do..

SHALENA

"You have never really lived until you have done something for someone who can never repay you"

You can avoid ignorance all you want, but as soon as you start alienating important folks in the medical community...especially as an uninvited gringo without an MD after your name (remember, nurses aren't diddly here, and you are just another nurse in their eyes)...you will make enemies. Enemies are one thing you do NOT want in the DR. The bureaucracies here-medicine included-are vastly more political than in the states.