Hell night in san jose de las matas.

[Andy B]

In cases like this the local police usually know who to go after and whose heads to crack. I've seen some of this happen here in the DR and most police are a lot more savvy than you give them credit for. My experience is they just don't go out and randomly knock heads. They know their community and who is usually behind criminal activity.

And when they do not have any background information or any suspects, they will arrest everybody in the vicinity in the hopes that someone will talk. Those that are not involved are usually let go right away. With a population that WILL NOT TALK to police investigators this is about the only way the police can obtain information about a crime. I've seen this happen when the crimes are serious, such as murder or a violent attack on a tourist or foreign resident. I've also seen the same cases solved because of information gained from this type of police activity. It's an unfortunate tactic for those involved, but it works.

 

[mkohn]

AZB, trust your instinct more often!
AZB, you seem to have compassion for the innocent tigueres.
Sorry to hear about your ordeal.
mk

 

[goatfarmnga]

After reading the posts...

I feel sorry for the guys the police took. I would have just let it be a lesson. It is a car stereo..Big deal. Feeling betrayed by theft is one thing though. Been robbed so I know how it feels. But the Police in the DR may just be terrorizing people for a show..knowing they will never catch the thieves. Pam

 

[andy a]

A few more comments.

Valuable, visible objects are automatically targets for theft in the DR. Even so, most thieves there don't want to be seen.

Despite AZB being self-critical, parking a car in a well-lit area (assuming that it was) with lots of people is among the safest ways in the DR. The fact that it was vandalized anyway illustrates the degree to which theft is rampant. It would probably have been even less safe in his own driveway, in which case the whole vehicle might have been stolen.

By the way, no amount of locks alone can save an object from being stolen in the DR. In a place where so many have so much idle time on their hands, the difficulty involved only slows them down. It doesn't stop them. Since they have nothing else to do, they'll return again and again until they succeed. It might even make them more "macho" to steal it anyway. The thief may very well spend more defeating the locks and other security than what it turns out to be worth for him.

Another defensive measure is to move it often, if possible. Even houses, though apparently dark and unoccupied, have "sitters". Fortunately in the DR, most thieves are not prepared to kill to get what they want - at least not yet.

Everyone I know in the DR has been victimized by theft. Taking precautions helps to keep it minimized.

Finally, the fact that they struck so quickly, ignoring the crowd and lights, makes me wonder if it could have been an inside job in AZB's case?

 

[Danny W]

Everyone in New York has been victimized by theft as well. And in New York, robbery often involves murder. One reason is that the drug problem is more serious in NY. People tell me that the reason that there is less of a drug problem in the DR is because the police don't tolerate it - so that seems to be a definite benifit of the police tactics. Since the political (and judicial?) system seems to be completely corrupt, I guess every law abiding person should be thankful for the police. Civil liberties have to be fostered by the entire system Police are simply "enforcement".

 

[suarezn]

Some of you guys just don't understand the extent of police butality and total lack respect for civil liberties that exists in the DR. Police raids are almost a way of life in the barrios. When they go around in their van which they call "perrera" - dog pound - they throw in there anyone they can get a hold of. The only thing that will save you is if you have a "padrino" - Someone who's important enough and who will vouch for you (i.e. a general who's related to you). They routinely beat anyone they feel like. If they are looking for someone who's wanted for a crime they will hold their parents and other relatives until the person turns themselves in, and then they kill them in an "intercambio de disparos". This stems from the fact that the police force in the DR as it exists today was developed during Trujillo's dictatorship. They are still using the same tactics they used back then. I wish someone had the balls to disband them and start from scratch...Wishful thinking...

 

[D & D]

Theft Anywhere

To me it makes no difference that it was a MP3. The people who stole did not earn the money to buy it or pay to have it installed. It doesn't matter "what" is stolen from you, the operative word here is "yours".

I have been robbed and it was for quite a haul. The druggies got a slap on the wrist and re-hab. Frankly, I could give a shit less if these types of people live or die. They are scum!

I worked for everything I have and I'll be damned if I will accept blame for some SOB trying and/or succeeding to take it from me when I have taken all reasonable precautions to forestall that event.

I have been shot at and have done some shooting and I've had to physically defend myself and by God I'm still here! If some people believe that their property is not worth fighting for, that's their business. As for me, I am of the opinion that as long as there is breath in my body, I will fight for and defend what is mine!

As for AZB, what's wrong with being pissed about having your property stolen? As for the innocents, are they really? Or could it be that the police were just thinning the herd.

Yeh, I'm off and running on this one, but some of these comments pushed my buttons! You may have guessed, I don't turn the other cheek. dfwm

Dianne

 

[suarezn]

Geez someone is really bitter...Could it be where and who you hang out with? I lived in the DR most of my life...and now live in Detroit which is supposed to be a dangerous city. I've never been robbed, had a knife pulled out on me. Never owned a gun and never had to defend myself. Yeah I know it could happen to anyone, but maybe...just maybe it makes a difference how you live your life...My two cents

 

[DCfred]

No aprendes!

 

[Larry]

D&D

D&D,
You will see that most of the posters take a liberal posture toward most of the topics discussed on this board. I am not saying that the methods the police in the DR use are proper but to turn it around like suarzen just did (along with many others) insinuating that the VICTUM is the one who is to blame and lamenting for the ones rounded up in the raid instead of the one who got robbed is wrong. Lets not forget who instigated this whole fiasco; and no it was not AZB for parking his car, it was the thieves who stole from him. Lets remember who is really to blame here.
Larry

 

[ZEUS]

Sorry to hear that DUDE.

Sorry to read about what happened to you, but there's something to be learned from this: First install a good alarm to protect you wheels and you valuables, second, don't hang around with people from HHP, they're all crooks. And last and most important of all, can you trust your "friends". It could have been an inside job!...
Don't cry over spilled milk.. tell you what, I'll buy you and HB a round of 'cold ones' at AHIBAR on Sept 15th.. be there !!

Zeus (primus inter pares)

 

[Texas Bill]

Hell night in san jose de las matas

:angry:

I quite agree with Dianne!

I evolved in a society that abhored thievery in any form. Early days, we hanged rustlers(cow thieves) and bank robbers. My grandfather was a Texas Ranger in his younger years and had a lot of stories about such. His philosophy was "if you take something that belongs to me, it's my priviledge to take your life in return so you won't do it again"
To those of you who haven't suffered the taking of your hard earned possessions from you, I have this to say. Don't think for a minute that a thief has any respect for you or your property, he doesn't! If you won't fight back with all that you have, you don't deserve to have anything. So, all you bleeding hearts can go take a flying one at a rolling doughnut. You've not the right to tell others they are wrong. You're the one in the wrong.
Now, how do you like them apples?

Texas Bill

 

[goatfarmnga]

Thieves will be thieves...

No one wants to be robbed but when it was a stereo and he reported it to the police what more can you do? It is clear that thieves will take what they want when they want because they are BAD PEOPLE..But live and learn..I would not have anything that could entice a thief if I could help it.But that is me..I have had my Convertible top slashed, my ashtray filled with change stolen and was burning mad..Just change but major damage to my favorite car...and a hard to find ashtray for a vintage car..But Theft makes you feel violated and more than the MP3 player theft...It just makes people mad...If the Police could catch them would you really want the thief to be beaten to death by the police??? I would just let it be a lesson and just not have fancy equipment that would be worth alot to some poor loser in a poor country...Sometimes you just have to realize S--t happens and it was your turn AZB..It is bad that things happen in well lit places filled with people but it can happen right under your nose..Thieves are quick... Pam

 

[Larry]

Re: Hell night in san jose de las matas

:angry:

I quite agree with Dianne!

I evolved in a society that abhored thievery in any form. Early days, we hanged rustlers(cow thieves) and bank robbers. My grandfather was a Texas Ranger in his younger years and had a lot of stories about such. His philosophy was "if you take something that belongs to me, it's my priviledge to take your life in return so you won't do it again"
To those of you who haven't suffered the taking of your hard earned possessions from you, I have this to say. Don't think for a minute that a thief has any respect for you or your property, he doesn't! If you won't fight back with all that you have, you don't deserve to have anything. So, all you bleeding hearts can go take a flying one at a rolling doughnut. You've not the right to tell others they are wrong. You're the one in the wrong.
Now, how do you like them apples?


Texas Bill

TB, I agree with your philosophy and like your style brother.
Larry

 

[Texas Bill]

Hell night in san jose de las matas

Thanks Larry!
I was a little concerned that I might have steped over the line, but had to say what was in my heart and on my mind.
I do tend to take the Texas motto of "Don't Mess With Texas" a little seriously on occassion.

Texas Bill

 

[suarezn]

Re: D&D

D&D,
You will see that most of the posters take a liberal posture toward most of the topics discussed on this board. I am not saying that the methods the police in the DR use are proper but to turn it around like suarzen just did (along with many others) insinuating that the VICTUM is the one who is to blame and lamenting for the ones rounded up in the raid instead of the one who got robbed is wrong. Lets not forget who instigated this whole fiasco; and no it was not AZB for parking his car, it was the thieves who stole from him. Lets remember who is really to blame here.
Larry

Larry: Don't try to turn MY comments around. The victims here are both AZB and the guys who got beaten up by the police, even though they were not the ones who stole his radio. It's not just AZB...as a matter of fact I think the people who got slapped and beaten just for being in the wrong place at the wrong time are more of a victim than AZB. What did AZB lose? a couple of hundred dollars worth...These guys getting slapped by the cops in front of everybody lost their dignity. I tell you if that happened to me I really don't know what I would do...I can assure you it would not be pretty, though...

Texas Bill: Of course you being from Texas would like eveyone hanged, electrocuted, etc... (specially if they happen to be dark colored...Another topic) Just look at the record on your state when it comes to executions. The thing is that in spite of all the people you guys kill in you state, you still have a higher crime rate than the US average. So you'd think by now you guys would have learned that such tactics just don't work...But hey who am I to mess with Texas

 

[ltsnyder]

Re: Hell night in san jose de las matas

:angry:

I quite agree with Dianne!

I evolved in a society that abhored thievery in any form. Early days, we hanged rustlers(cow thieves) and bank robbers. My grandfather was a Texas Ranger in his younger years and had a lot of stories about such. His philosophy was "if you take something that belongs to me, it's my priviledge to take your life in return so you won't do it again"
To those of you who haven't suffered the taking of your hard earned possessions from you, I have this to say. Don't think for a minute that a thief has any respect for you or your property, he doesn't! If you won't fight back with all that you have, you don't deserve to have anything. So, all you bleeding hearts can go take a flying one at a rolling doughnut. You've not the right to tell others they are wrong. You're the one in the wrong.
Now, how do you like them apples?

Texas Bill

Texas Bill, that's the stupidest comment I ever heard, in New Jersy and other sates outside of Texas, we have somethng that is call "State Law" and "Federal Law", we use these things as guidelines to ensure justice. We found long ago that just putting a gun to someones head that you think did you wrong, does not always work, . . . . maybe some day you might come to the same conclusion, stranger things have happened I suppose.

Is that LIBERAL enough for you Larry?

-Lee

 

[Danny W]

Golleeeeeeeeeee, this is gettin' to be a real barn burner! Bringing in color is very interesting, because in the States "profiling" is a hot button issue. If you're black or Arab, you're getting the short end, but of course we all know why and can justify it to some extent. Seems like this issue with the police is similar. It sucks, but is justified to some extent. Obviously with nothing stopping them the cops can be brutal, but probably if they weren't, the DR would be more like Kingston, Jamaica. With such a large impoverished population, and a government of thieves - this is what you get. - D

 

[Larry]

Re: Re: Hell night in san jose de las matas

Is that LIBERAL enough for you Larry?

-Lee

Its leaning toward liberal for sure Lee but that ok with me . I consider people like yourself and suarzen to be what I consider "intelligent, reasonable" liberals. You opinions usually differ from mine but at least I feel we can converse in a civil way. If nothing else, it makes for good discussion, dont you agree?

Larry

 

[Texas Bill]

Hell night in san jose de las matas

There you go again---ASSuming that I was speaking present tense.
However, maybe if you had answered the door at 3AM(no peephole, so it's My fault), had had the door shoved in your face, beaten up and bloodied, left that way with the phones ripped out, and robbed of everything movable, you would REALLY feel differently???
Give me a break--the sob and his girlfriend did it on purpose! And you want me to be reasonable about it???
I don't advocate capitol punishment for such a crime. But, it was fairly effective in early days. It wouldn't be so today, nor would it be acceptable in modern society. However I DO believe in punishment to fit the crime.
To the other poster, and you, we Do have State Laws and coordinate with Federal jurisdictions when appropriate. That our ideas of justice in Texas may differ from yours is the right of the State to express. There are no criminals on Death Row who haven't been convicted by a jury of their peers, so don't insinuate we're a bunch of "death-mongers". It's not appropriate!
As to the two who broke into my house, beat me up and stole my property, they're now walking around on crutches. I broke the kneecaps of both after three years of hunting them down.
They won't be stealing again.
Yes, I took the law into my own hands because the law wasn't effective. Call it vigilante justice, or brutality, I really don't care. I got even!

Texas Bill