Hermanas Mirabal

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Lenny-you're wrong about the Mirabals. They were not "one of the few" willing to stand up against Trujillo. Thousands of people did. And many of them paid for it with their lives. Many historians point this out in history books, not fictionalized accounts of history. Even Valentina Peguero, a Dominican historian, makes that point in her writing, the Mirabals were one of "thousands" of Dominican men and women who risked their lives to bring down Trujillo.

Many of the revolts came from within the Dominican armed forces. In the last year of Trujillo's rule, a group of Dominican airforce personnel were caught disabling jet fighters and committing other acts of sabotage. Fifty members of the airforce were savagely tortured to death for that. The list goes on...

The group that actually killed Trujillo was mostly made of up military men. Insiders.

I'm not doubting the bravery of the Mirabals, I'm not , but it seems to me that perspective has been lost here.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

I'm researching some of the plots involving Trujillo, I'm not sure if all of the airforce personnel tortured actually died in captivity-some of them may have survived. I need to check into that.

There were a lot of plots against Trujillo, many.

The men who actually killed Trujillo were from the right, very few of the men involved survived the aftermath, very, very, few.

I think you're being a bit too hard on Golo, I don't think what he said was "unpatriotic", he simply expressed an opinion. What constitutes "truth" in your book ?

 

[catcherintherye]

I do not believe Lenny is being at all hard on Gogo. In my opinion Lenny is simply reacting to an emotional revisionist rant.

I am sure you will note the word "revisionist", and I mean it in the most literal sense. Gogo is trying to conveniently revise history to his/her liking.

As far as Lenny's response goes, as trujillo might attest if he were still alive (just just his shadow), "As ye sow, so shall ye reap."

 

[49erman]

Anyone ever see the "Day of the Jackal"? There is a reference in that movie that Carlos the Jackal had the principle role in murdering Trujillo. (The movie was made in the 70's and is pretty good.) This is/was fiction, but I thought the reference was kinda random and interesting.

 

[catcherintherye]

49er,
The movie was fictional, but based on some historical facts. Whether or not the Jackal was part of the conspiricy to assasinate Trujillo has not been determined. It is clear that the CIA was involved to a certain extent, since they supplied some of the rifles used, and offered US assistance if a new government could be formed. Unfortunately, Trujillo's son took control, and few, if any, of the conspiritors were left after their round-up. Although his son soon departed for the US, the legacy of Trujillo ran deep in the DR, and still does.

 

[A.Hidalgo]

The fact that the conspirators who assassinated Trujillo were individuals who were part of the regime or were from the right politically, altered any substantive change in the politics of the country. Citizens like the Mirabals never got the opportunity to make a clean brake from the dictatorship and all its tentacles.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

The fact that the conspirators who assassinated Trujillo were individuals who were part of the regime or were from the right politically, altered any substantive change in the politics of the country. Citizens like the Mirabals never got the opportunity to make a clean brake from the dictatorship and all its tentacles.

There was almost a kind of race going on(IMO) between the left and the right to topple Trujillo. Modesto Diaz(brother of General Juan Tomas Diaz and an ex-mayor of SD) talked about that with the other plotters, that Trujillo had to be brought down by the right.

 

[A.Hidalgo]

Unlike the Mirabal sisters and others on the left, the conspirators had no bigger social agenda for the country in general, but did the deed out of some personal vendetta against the goat.....that for me was the tragedy that altered the destiny of the country.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Unlike the Mirabal sisters and others on the left, the conspirators had no bigger social agenda for the country in general, but did the deed out of some personal vendetta against the goat.....that for me was the tragedy that altered the destiny of the country.

The history books largely agree with you. However, many of the people I interviewed disagreed that the motives were strictly personal. For the De La Maza's, well yes, it was a personal vendetta, for others, it was to free their country of a tyrant(not everyone on the right operates solely for personal reasons while those on the left are always unselfish.)

 

[A.Hidalgo]

But did they they have a platform to transform the country for the benefit of all? Don't forget that some benefited greatly from the Trujillista system. Some were members of the military, some in government positions and others successful businessmen.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

The priority was to kill Trujillo. Afterward, there were free elections and Juan Bosch won. The election campaign that followed the Trujillo clans depature hashed out the agenda.

What was the platform of the leftists? The priority was to bring down the Trujillo Regime. Beyond that, free elections? What else was there?

Did the Mirabals plan something else? I don't know what you're suggesting exactly.

 

[bob saunders]

But did they they have a platform to transform the country for the benefit of all? Don't forget that some benefited greatly from the Trujillista system. Some were members of the military, some in government positions and others successful businessmen.

So, do you think if the faction the Mirabels were part of (leftist) would have transformed the country for the benefit of all. It seems that's what you are implying.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Another angle

The ringleaders of the successful Trujillo plot were killed. Whatever agenda they might have had(and I think, honestly, killing Trujillo was the foremost thing in their mind) never had a chance to develop. After Trujillo's Regime collapsed there were free and fair elections. Yes, afterward,a coup, but that was after a free election and I don't believe the coup can be attributed to Trujillo's assassins.

I think your idea is off track(if I understand you correctly).

I never asked General Imbert directly, "Why did you kill Trujillo?" Some of the people I interviewed(that were involved in the plot) expressed how scared they were or how nerve wracking it was to be involved in the plot. I asked General Imbert, "Weren't you scared while plotting against Trujillo?" General Imbert replied quickly, and in English, "No. Trujillo had to be stopped."

There was an element in the group that just wanted Trujillo dead.

The last 3-4 years of the regime were really terrible. Trujillo's mental state was worsening and he was becoming more and more erratic. I honestly think that people just wanted the regime to end, what came after was, well, perhaps, not that big of a concern. Trujillo would be dead. That would be enough for many of those involved.

 

[A.Hidalgo]

When you get down to it, whatever is said in this forum either pro or con, the Mirabal legacy is cemented in Dominican history and folks that is not about to change.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Oh please

When you get down to it, whatever is said in this forum either pro or con, the Mirabal legacy is cemented in Dominican history and folks that is not about to change.

It's not about being pro or con, it's about being honest about history, and not inventing myths. I hope that the Mirabal legacy is based on facts and not myths.

What kind of political platform did the Mirabals have? If they had lived, what would they have done? Would the Sisiters have had power, or their husbands? Your posts have been vague.

 

[catcherintherye]

Ogre,
If I understand you correctly, you are saying the Mirabal sisters do not deserve the attention they have gotten, and, in fact, they should not be afforded even a foot note in the history books.

While you are certainly far more qualified than I to determine who deserves a place in history, the way I see it is that the Mirabals put their lives on the line,. and paid the ultimate price, while the learned elite hid behind their history books and mundane minutiae, waiting for others to take a stand.

If you posit that the Mirabal sisters were ineffective, well, so be it. However, they at least had the balls to put themselves out there, and they accomplished more by their example than any ten historians could possibly begin to comprehend.

So while you are busy debating the finer points of attaining political power, please keep in mind that real history is created by common everyday people just trying to do the right thing, without any thought about where they might be mentioned in the history books.

 

[A.Hidalgo]

It's not about being pro or con, it's about being honest about history, and not inventing myths. I hope that the Mirabal legacy is based on facts and not myths.

What kind of political platform did the Mirabals have? If they had lived, what would they have done? Would the Sisiters have had power, or their husbands? Your posts have been vague.

What makes you think their legacy is based on myth? Provide us with those myths....oh wait maybe one of those myths is that they were not murdered for their political belief. Only in Ogre's mind. Vague enough.

 

[A.Hidalgo]

What kind of political platform did the Mirabals have? If they had lived, what would they have done? Would the Sisiters have had power, or their husbands? Your posts have been vague.

my bold

I am surprised by this question, being that you are a history reader, but I guess you have concentrated too much on the goat. The sisters belonged to a clandestine movement called Movimiento 14 de Junio. The movement had a political platform. Its found in history books about the Dominican Republic. Maybe what irks you is that they were perhaps to the left on the political spectrum?

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

Ogre,
If I understand you correctly, you are saying the Mirabal sisters do not deserve the attention they have gotten, and, in fact, they should not be afforded even a foot note in the history books.

While you are certainly far more qualified than I to determine who deserves a place in history, the way I see it is that the Mirabals put their lives on the line,. and paid the ultimate price, while the learned elite hid behind their history books and mundane minutiae, waiting for others to take a stand.

If you posit that the Mirabal sisters were ineffective, well, so be it. However, they at least had the balls to put themselves out there, and they accomplished more by their example than any ten historians could possibly begin to comprehend.

So while you are busy debating the finer points of attaining political power, please keep in mind that real history is created by common everyday people just trying to do the right thing, without any thought about where they might be mentioned in the history books.

I never said theydidn't deserve a footnote in history, that's not true. There is a very real disconnect here between what the Mirabals did and did not do. Did the Mirabals kill trujillo? No. It was the people that rallied to General Juan Tomas Diaz and Antonio De La Maza. I'm not the one bringing up the finer points of attaining power and right wing/left wing agendas. The point that historians have made, is that the Mirabals were one of many people who risked their lives. Not all of them were featured in novels.

You seem to be attacking/insulting me(as a historian and I suspect personally), so let me answer. The people I interviewed, the people who were either part of the plot or had family members involved, suffered terrible personal losses. Virtually everyone connected to that plot lost at least one family member, if not multiply family members. This was not an exciting adventure for the people involved. It was life or death. Many of the people who were killed in the aftermath of the assassination died after being totured. Everyone knew the risks involved. The families do not come together and throw parties about these events, they hold memorial services to remember all the people that were killed because of their involvement in Trujillo's assasination. The people involved in this were not thinking about their place in history. That's a shameful thing to even suggest.

 

[Ogre of the Caribbean]

What makes you think their legacy is based on myth? Provide us with those myths....oh wait maybe one of those myths is that they were not murdered for their political belief. Only in Ogre's mind. Vague enough.

Now when did I ever say that?