I'm Convinced That Haiti Truly Is Cursed!

[shawn27]

You know, I'll be in DR for a week in December, I'm going to travel to Haiti for half a day and see for myself how Haitians operate. Watch out for my posts mid December... Everyone keeps talking about the resilience of the Haitian people but I see differently. I see people expecting to be helped, and gladly accepting aid.

This is largely based on my ignorance of Haiti which is why I want to see what Haiti is like with my own eyes. Further, I never meant to offend, just because a country is a commonwealth doesn't mean it loses any credibility as a nation. It's interesting that people don't mention the fact that two developed countries, Canada and Australia are technically still commonwealth's of Great Britain. Couldn't it be argued that if they hadn't been commonwealth's that they would've attained their current status in the world? The US was obviously also colonized. Jamaicans are a proud people but they are also a commonwealth. Get my point?

Personally I think this is the best choice for Haiti, some may disagree, but I'm sure we can all voice our disagreements without being petty with our responses.

 

[shawn27]

The very idea that you need to teach Haitians how to farm is hilarious.
The Tilapia initiative is one exception, but I tam telling you now as 100% fact with absolutely no doubt whatsoever that Haitians do not need to be told how to grow food.

.

I think you literally interpreted that saying of fishing... It's not necessarily in reference to actual food, rather it stems from either being handed something or learning how to survive on your own. That's the point I was trying to make. Someone needs to keep holding Haiti's hand, but eventually we need to let go and let Haiti walk by herself.

 

[mountainannie]

You know, I'll be in DR for a week in December, I'm going to travel to Haiti for half a day and see for myself how Haitians operate. Watch out for my posts mid December... Everyone keeps talking about the resilience of the Haitian people but I see differently. I see people expecting to be helped, and gladly accepting aid.

This is largely based on my ignorance of Haiti which is why I want to see what Haiti is like with my own eyes. Further, I never meant to offend, just because a country is a commonwealth doesn't mean it loses any credibility as a nation. It's interesting that people don't mention the fact that two developed countries, Canada and Australia are technically still commonwealth's of Great Britain. Couldn't it be argued that if they hadn't been commonwealth's that they would've attained their current status in the world? The US was obviously also colonized. Jamaicans are a proud people but they are also a commonwealth. Get my point?

Personally I think this is the best choice for Haiti, some may disagree, but I'm sure we can all voice our disagreements without being petty with our responses.

Shawn... I appreciate that you are trying to learn/

I doubt that a day in Haiti is going to qualify you as much of an expert... The relationship of Canada and Australia to Great Britian is as members of the British Commonwealth, which all the former British colonies .. except the US... belong..

THAT organization is Not comparable in any way to the relationship between US and Puerto Rico.

Canada and Australia are completely SOVEREIGN countries. Puerto Rico is not. It does not control its own foreign policy and is subject to US Federal laws, including the death penalty ... which is wildly unpopular in PR.

 

[shawn27]

Shawn... I appreciate that you are trying to learn/

Canada and Australia are completely SOVEREIGN countries. Puerto Rico is not. It does not control its own foreign policy and is subject to US Federal laws, including the death penalty ... which is wildly unpopular in PR.

But as I've stated before, they started out completely dependant as Great Britain. As time passed they were able to become independant from Britain. They are however still commonwealth's. I'm not saying the situation will be the same, obviously the conditions of any agreements would be different. Besides one could argue that the law's in place for these commonwealth's are based upon the model of Great Britian.

Canada and Australia are not completely sovereign, there is a governor general that still represents the Queen in their Governments... Interesting enough the ex governor general of Canada was Haitian..

 

[mountainannie]

But as I've stated before, they started out completely dependant as Great Britain. As time passed they were able to become independant from Britain. They are however still commonwealth's. I'm not saying the situation will be the same, obviously the conditions of any agreements would be different. Besides one could argue that the law's in place for these commonwealth's are based upon the model of Great Britian.

Canada and Australia are not completely sovereign, there is a governor general that still represents the Queen in their Governments... Interesting enough the ex governor general of Canada was Haitian..

I am sorry, Shawn.. but this makes no sense to me.

Massachussetts and Pennsylvania are commonweaths as well.

And have about as much relevance to Haiti as the relationship of Great Britian to her former colonies.

The issue that we have strayed from is that most of us here think that idea of the ANNEXATION of Haiti to any other country is one that has no merit.

You are free to hold your own opinions, of course.

 

[shawn27]

I am sorry, Shawn.. but this makes no sense to me.

Massachussetts and Pennsylvania are commonweaths as well.

And have about as much relevance to Haiti as the relationship of Great Britian to her former colonies.

The issue that we have strayed from is that most of us here think that idea of the ANNEXATION of Haiti to any other country is one that has no merit.

You are free to hold your own opinions, of course.

It's hard to prove a point on a message board. As I stated before we will just agree to disagree.

 

[bochinche]

a curious thing..... talking about haiti and its 'desperate' form with a dominican evangelical a few days ago.

the evangelical (i know not of which church) decided that there was something evil about haiti and its people.....mentioned words like "voodoo" and "zombies".

"dom rep was protected by God".....the reason? the only country in the world with a bible in its flag.

i quickly made my excuses and moved on.
it's sort of sad that there are people who think like that.

 

[greydread]

The issue that we have strayed from is that most of us here think that idea of the ANNEXATION of Haiti to any other country is one that has no merit.

I don't think that there are many Haitians who would disagree.

 

[bob saunders]

But as I've stated before, they started out completely dependant as Great Britain. As time passed they were able to become independant from Britain. They are however still commonwealth's. I'm not saying the situation will be the same, obviously the conditions of any agreements would be different. Besides one could argue that the law's in place for these commonwealth's are based upon the model of Great Britian.

Canada and Australia are not completely sovereign, there is a governor general that still represents the Queen in their Governments... Interesting enough the ex governor general of Canada was Haitian..

Trust me, Canada and Australia may have A Queen's Representative and have a Parlimentary system of government, but they are completely independent of GB. They are members of the British Commonwealth. If you want we will give Quebec to Haiti. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Act_1982

 

[Chip]

Personally I think this is the best choice for Haiti, some may disagree, but I'm sure we can all voice our disagreements without being petty with our responses.

With one swoop of the hand you would forcefully remove Haiti's sovereignty and you consider anyone who disagrees with this nonsense as being petty? I think it's dumbfounding that the topic keeps reappearing as if the people who propose this would ever have anything to say in the matter. It is quite delusional to continue this debate.

 

[LaLouve]

Hummmm, let's see it started regarding a "curse" and now let's annex the country. I have a list of wishes. But I will only express one
May the coming elections be transparent, clean and non violent and may the people have their real voices heard.
As for Quebec, I am not Jean Charest nor le peuple qu?b?cois (joking of course), but if they Turks and Caicos were once an idea, Haiti is not the same case since it is an independent nation.
The journey will certainly be long and the path full of obstacles. If Rwanda is back on the map, Haiti could too. It just needs the good and non corrupted leaders, its Constitution to be respected, its police force to have decent salaries (to avoid corruption, Quebec did it and it worked) and so on. Restore national dignity and cohesion. It won't be easy, but it is possible.

 

[Chip]

Hummmm, let's see it started regarding a "curse" and now let's annex the country. I have a list of wishes. But I will only express one
May the coming elections be transparent, clean and non violent and may the people have their real voices heard.
As for Quebec, I am not Jean Charest nor le peuple qu?b?cois (joking of course), but if they Turks and Caicos were once an idea, Haiti is not the same case since it is an independent nation.
The journey will certainly be long and the path full of obstacles. If Rwanda is back on the map, Haiti could too. It just needs the good and non corrupted leaders, its Constitution to be respected, its police force to have decent salaries (to avoid corruption, Quebec did it and it worked) and so on. Restore national dignity and cohesion. It won't be easy, but it is possible.

We all want the best for Haiti but at this point I don't we can expect much from their leaders nor even a clean election what with the fact that they've apparently illegally disallowed Raymond Joseph and his nephew's candidacies. The real hope is that the politicians won't be in real control over the coming projects other than to sign off on them and offer some opinions. They certainly won't be allowed to hold the purse strings. Once housing developments are built along with roads and all the supporting infrastructure the real hope Haiti has are the return of it's citizens living abroad until the next generation or two has the education and the belief that they can contribute to a better Haiti.

 

[LaLouve]

We all want the best for Haiti but at this point I don't we can expect much from their leaders nor even a clean election what with the fact that they've apparently illegally disallowed Raymond Joseph and his nephew's candidacies. The real hope is that the politicians won't be in real control over the coming projects other than to sign off on them and offer some opinions. They certainly won't be allowed to hold the purse strings. Once housing developments are built along with roads and all the supporting infrastructure the real hope Haiti has are the return of it's citizens living abroad until the next generation or two has the education and the belief that they can contribute to a better Haiti.

I could not agree more.

 

[LaLouve]

We all want the best for Haiti but at this point I don't we can expect much from their leaders nor even a clean election what with the fact that they've apparently illegally disallowed Raymond Joseph and his nephew's candidacies. The real hope is that the politicians won't be in real control over the coming projects other than to sign off on them and offer some opinions. They certainly won't be allowed to hold the purse strings. Once housing developments are built along with roads and all the supporting infrastructure the real hope Haiti has are the return of it's citizens living abroad until the next generation or two has the education and the belief that they can contribute to a better Haiti.

While I agree with you, as an immigrant and mother of young Canadians, I do not envision myself going to live in my country of origin, let alone my children. If it is the choice of some to return, yes be it. But, let us not fool ourselves, we didn't leave our countries hoping to return; but hoping better future for our children. Some might succeed going back, but majority will stay in their countries. Because once the first and second generation gone, there are not that many links left. They're either severed because of the distance or in some cases the only link they have are also established in another country chosen by their parents or grand parents.

 

[LaLouve]

Canada and Australia are not completely sovereign, there is a governor general that still represents the Queen in their Governments... Interesting enough the ex governor general of Canada was Haitian..

Shawn,
The role of the Governor General is morganatic, he/she may be head of state but no power as in England, a cohesive fixture. Michaelle Jean is a great woman and being now the envoy from UNESCO will help more lobby for Haiti.

Have a good night all

 

[Luperon]

Fertility Rates (Children per Family)

 

[NALs]

Fertility Rates (Children per Family)

The latest figures from the CIA World Factbook are as follows (2010 estimates):

Total Fertility Rate: 3.17 children born/woman

The following have drastically been changed post-earthquake:

Life Expectancy at Birth: 29.93 years

Infant Mortality Rate: 77.26 deaths/1,000 live births

Net Migration Rate: -9.75 migrants/1,000 population

Death Rate: 32.31 deaths/1,000 population

Population Growth Rate: -1.715%

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ha.html

 

[Chip]

I think it's fairly common in poor countries for their to be high pregnancy and fertility rates. With regard to Haiti, this I don't find troublesome as much as the common cultural phenomenom of "seemingly" rejecting the newborn once they are born. This is not to say they don't take care of them but is is seen as a sorrow and a burden from the minute they are born. PC or no pc something needs to change in the culture to realize kids are a gift and to be thankful for them. Then again maybe it could be argued that that is the trend anymore everywhere because we all know what happens when a kid isn't wanted in the States or Europe.

 

[Bernard Jean-Pierre]

Please do not make the mistake of thinking that the "rich plantations" of Haiti bore any resemblance to any sort of viable enterprise... they were run under what is now considered the most brutal form of slavery ever in existence.

The French expected that at least one third of the slaves would die in transit.. planned for it, so that only the strongest survived.

They had a regular import business and did not attempt to breed slaves on the Island.

Haiti produced under this system of forced labor.. more than all the British colonies of the West Indies combined including the 13 colonies of the US.

The armies of Haiti were paid in land.. (here it goes into differences between the north and south.. Petion and Boyer) .. which was the only currency available... since the trees were cut for lumber to pay the "debt" owed to France for the loss of her "property"....the only former colony which had to pay such reparations.

I do not think it is accurate to say that Haiti chose this for themselves.

I agree. Furthermore I think it is a tad selfish to just say, 'oh well you had your chance, too bad, screw you', like the person mentioned previously. They are still innocent people there suffering. Its not like EVERYBODY in Haiti can decide which laws are made and applied, the children have NOTHING to do with that, they are victims. The Government is mainly responsible for that aspect, but even when the people vote a person in office there is no guarantee that this person will be honorable and responsible.

You have to have more sympathy than to just say 'its THEIR fault, so just let them die'. How many of us would say that if it were OUR people, family, friends in Haiti??? What if Haiti was the Dominican Republic?? How many DR1 people would be apathetic about the situation then?? I'm not saying its everybody's fault, I'm just saying if you can help, by all means DO SO! People are dying for crying out loud.
And even if you have no heart for Haitians, at least have the foresight to realize that what is happening in Haiti WILL eventually affect la republica dominicana, sea ma?ana o en los a?os que vienen. Its just like watching your next door neighbor's house burn down and doing nothing to help. Perhaps they are not the BEST neighbors in the world, but what happens when the winds shifts and the flames touch YOUR house??

 

[Bernard Jean-Pierre]

You want to know the scary part......We are tied to them like simese twins. We can't cut them off and let the float into the atlantic. We must work to get Haiti back on its feet and moving in the right direction because in the end a well educated and govern haiti makes for a much better Republica Dominicana.

Exactamente!! No se porque tantas personas no pueden entender eso! Por Dios! A healthy, strong Haiti will mean a more stable Dominican Republic, but a weak, dying Haiti will mean more people to support on less and less resources, thus a LESS stable Dominican Republic. And NO its not as simple as 'ta' bien los vamo' a sacarrr del pai'', nope not happening. Haitians are even more determined to come to the Dominican Republic for a better oppurtunity as some Dominicans are about dirigiendose pal norte. You have to help fix the problem, only that will stem the tide of people.