I'm Convinced That Haiti Truly Is Cursed!

Bernard Jean-Pierre

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Oct 31, 2010
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Mountainannie,

While the slavetrade was a very bad patch in history it is not responsible for the current state of affairs.

To my knowledge the Haitian people that currently live in Haiti:

1. Have had 200 years to build their country
2. Have been sliding ever since their independence, following a succesion of self styled emperors, who used the nations wealth to build imitation Versaille palaces instead of improving their country
3. Believe the Haitian way is best (noiristes coupled with some twisted way of the original voodoo religion)
4. Are utterly corrupt, just think of the demand the president has made that aid funds be made available to him, since he is best placed to disburse them
5. Are aid addicts, always with their hand out
6. Will not reform because any outsider says so

Many Haitians have fled their country and this has led to a somewhat prospering diaspora, let them 'help' their countrymen out. Guess what, any attempt to do so is stonewalled by the local corrupt clan (see the bid by Wyclef to run for President)
.

Some points are relatively valid. But there are also a lot of sweeping generalizations. True, their is an indisputable amount of government corruption, but the same can be said of the PLD, PRD etc, and the US Gov. Point is, you can not blame the entire populace because a handful of money mongers cant focus on what is most important - the benefit of the people. So are they utterly corrupt?? Thats arguable at best and virtually impossible to prove.

Believing the Haitian way is best?? There are not too many sovereign Nations lining up to be told what to do and how to do it?? Should they listen to good advice?? Sure, but how can one know what advice will be beneficial and which will further damage an already crippled government?? I'm just saying, its not as easy as talking about it. ESPECIALLY when they already know countries are lining up ready to give them one scoop with the right hand, with a promise that they can take 3 scoops back down the road.

Haitians are not 'aid addicts', they simply need help! They don't care how the help comes be in domestic or external, they just want it. Keep in mind this is not the 'fat 35 year old man upstairs living in Mom's house, won't get a job because he is too lazy, and prefers to just play PS2 all day and beg for hand outs from Mom'. No, we are talking about the 'legless, armless, blind man sleeping in his own feces everynight in the cold who has no friends and NO HOPE', there is a difference. Do you have ANY idea how many Haitians were dirt poor BEFORE the Earthquake?? or even BEFORE the Floods that came before?? These people are simply destitute, they have nothing, nothing, nothing. You would have your hand out too!

Now once they can re-establish and become at least somewhat self-sufficient, then yes I can see your point, don't encourage counter productive activities, be productive, grow, maintain etc. Yes, I agree with that.........but Haiti is NOT EVEN CLOSE to that point. Regardless of why they are where they are, they need help, and I personally feel that we (NOT AS NATIONS) as fellow human beings should be more responsible and active about helping, instead of getting all wrapped up in the political nonsense. Because why we sit in our homes, with snacks and drinks in front of us, typing on our Macbook Pro's about all the why's and who's and what for's, people are starving to death. And that is simply more important than trying to figure if they 'deserve' to be helped anymore. Por lo menos en mi humilde opinion.
 

Bernard Jean-Pierre

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Oct 31, 2010
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Furthermore, we are talking about what has been called a 'FAILED STATE' not just a place where things are not so peachy. What little infrastructure there was is now destroyed, what little government and public services that existed before, are now in disarray. Haitians (like Dominicans) are very resourceful, its not like they dont KNOW how to fish, farm, manufacture, mobilize, etc., they can do those things just like any other Nation, but they are NOT on the same level. They have nothing to work with at the moment, so therefore they need help. Like someone already mentioned, Haiti is a sovereign nation, and you better believe that they are proud to be Haitians just like any person is proud to be Dominicano, Americano o lo que sea. Once they are able to reestablish themselves they have the potential to be just as productive as any other Nation. But to ignore them right now, will only cause further problems, especially for the Dominican Republic.
 
Oct 13, 2003
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You are very right Chiri.

People consistently criticise NGO's for being short sighted or interested only for economic reasons as if they were managed by the same group of people. I guess they never got the memo that NGO means "non government authority".

Dear Chip,

They didn't get the memo because, although I'm many would prefer your definition, it means non-governemental organisation.
 

Chip

Platinum
Jul 25, 2007
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Santiago
Is there any General Urbanization Plan for your region (5 and 20 years)?

I'm sure something has been prepared but at this point with so many players involved I don't know what direction it could take but things will be heating up in February. As a civil engineer I had proposed before that they would need to develop municipal development zones that basically would be self sufficient in terms of infrastructurewith the exception of power) where also new roads and developments a layed out with a purpose.
 

mountainannie

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Dec 11, 2003
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The latest figures from the CIA World Factbook are as follows (2010 estimates):

Total Fertility Rate: 3.17 children born/woman

The following have drastically been changed post-earthquake:

Life Expectancy at Birth: 29.93 years

Infant Mortality Rate: 77.26 deaths/1,000 live births

Net Migration Rate: -9.75 migrants/1,000 population

Death Rate: 32.31 deaths/1,000 population

Population Growth Rate: -1.715%

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ha.html

OMG Nals! These are HORRIBLE figures...

The last time I checked the life expectancy was 50...

How is such a drop possible in only a year or two?

Do they simply measure the mean? By which I mean are they including the ages of all the children who were killed in the quake?
 
Oct 13, 2003
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Some points are relatively valid. But there are also a lot of sweeping generalizations. True, their is an indisputable amount of government corruption, but the same can be said of the PLD, PRD etc, and the US Gov. Point is, you can not blame the entire populace because a handful of money mongers cant focus on what is most important - the benefit of the people. So are they utterly corrupt?? Thats arguable at best and virtually impossible to prove.

Believing the Haitian way is best?? There are not too many sovereign Nations lining up to be told what to do and how to do it?? Should they listen to good advice?? Sure, but how can one know what advice will be beneficial and which will further damage an already crippled government?? I'm just saying, its not as easy as talking about it. ESPECIALLY when they already know countries are lining up ready to give them one scoop with the right hand, with a promise that they can take 3 scoops back down the road.

Haitians are not 'aid addicts', they simply need help! They don't care how the help comes be in domestic or external, they just want it. Keep in mind this is not the 'fat 35 year old man upstairs living in Mom's house, won't get a job because he is too lazy, and prefers to just play PS2 all day and beg for hand outs from Mom'. No, we are talking about the 'legless, armless, blind man sleeping in his own feces everynight in the cold who has no friends and NO HOPE', there is a difference. Do you have ANY idea how many Haitians were dirt poor BEFORE the Earthquake?? or even BEFORE the Floods that came before?? These people are simply destitute, they have nothing, nothing, nothing. You would have your hand out too!

Now once they can re-establish and become at least somewhat self-sufficient, then yes I can see your point, don't encourage counter productive activities, be productive, grow, maintain etc. Yes, I agree with that.........but Haiti is NOT EVEN CLOSE to that point. Regardless of why they are where they are, they need help, and I personally feel that we (NOT AS NATIONS) as fellow human beings should be more responsible and active about helping, instead of getting all wrapped up in the political nonsense. Because why we sit in our homes, with snacks and drinks in front of us, typing on our Macbook Pro's about all the why's and who's and what for's, people are starving to death. And that is simply more important than trying to figure if they 'deserve' to be helped anymore. Por lo menos en mi humilde opinion.

This has nothing to do with having a heart; I see this issue very very differently;

Each and every Haitian governements past and present (starting with the rival Emperors, through the Duvalier era until the current President cannot be trusted as far as you can throw them, the country is run by semi-local drug lords ...

All fine and dandy (and I believe in giving people their own rope) but until you create a fertile soil for help, it will never be more than symptomatic and will not cure the underlying cause..
 

wylechile_2000

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Apr 18, 2008
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You know, I'll be in DR for a week in December, I'm going to travel to Haiti for half a day and see for myself how Haitians operate. Watch out for my posts mid December... Everyone keeps talking about the resilience of the Haitian people but I see differently. I see people expecting to be helped, and gladly accepting aid.

Well if you do come let me know I work in the camps would love to show you what foreign aid is doing for our country right now.
 
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It would have been better for present day Haitians if their slave ancestors would never have rebelled against France. Eventually, France like other European powers matured, would have freed the slaves and made a nation that would make the DR look like Sierra Leone.

But yes, they are cursed.
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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They're doing a lot I would imagine.


They are indeed.
They are certainly busy doing something.

Mainly clogging the hotels, roads, bars, nightclubs, whorehouses, banks and pushing the price of an apartment beyond what any reasonable man can afford.

I will not name names, but I know of a major player in the temporary housing business in Haiti that has so far built NO SHELTERS.

Let me just repeat that - they are an international relief organisation who specialise in temporary shelters to house people after a disaster.

They have, over the last 10 months built a grand total of 0, zero, nada, nulla, nil, cero, niente. rien, nicht - fnck all shelters.

Now I am sure the people that Wylchile is associated with are doing lots of good work - but these crooks, again a major charity - have achieved exactly nothing.

And I am not talking about reconstruction here - I am talking about TEMPORARY SHELTERS.
So please do not go on about available land.

They are a disgrace.
 

AlterEgo

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Jan 9, 2009
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They are indeed.
They are certainly busy doing something.

Mainly clogging the hotels, roads, bars, nightclubs, whorehouses, banks and pushing the price of an apartment beyond what any reasonable man can afford.

I will not name names, but I know of a major player in the temporary housing business in Haiti that has so far built NO SHELTERS.

Let me just repeat that - they are an international relief organisation who specialise in temporary shelters to house people after a disaster.

They have, over the last 10 months built a grand total of 0, zero, nada, nulla, nil, cero, niente. rien, nicht - fnck all shelters.

Now I am sure the people that Wylchile is associated with are doing lots of good work - but these crooks, again a major charity - have achieved exactly nothing.

And I am not talking about reconstruction here - I am talking about TEMPORARY SHELTERS.
So please do not go on about available land.

They are a disgrace.

pc, if this is public information I'd like to know the name of this so-called relief operation so I can be sure NOT to contribute any money to them.

Next week marks the 10-month-after-earthquake anniversary. To not build even ONE temporary shelter in that time is unconscionable.

So who are they?

AE
 

pedrochemical

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Aug 22, 2008
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AE,

Let me think about that for a moment.

These people will not take kindly to being exposed for the frauds that they are.
 

shawn27

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May 24, 2010
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AE,

Let me think about that for a moment.

These people will not take kindly to being exposed for the frauds that they are.

Sometimes I feel like there's no hope for Haiti. Such obvious corruption with the one's with real power, those that truly do care have limited resources to actually DO something about this pervasive problem.. It all is just really sad to hear about. I don't know what ele there is to say about this dilemma.
 

greydread

Platinum
Jan 3, 2007
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AE,

Let me think about that for a moment.

These people will not take kindly to being exposed for the frauds that they are.

Don't do it. They obviously have more than enough money to spend on attorney fees if they haven't built any shelters yet.

Hell, I'm not much of a carpenter but even I could build at least one 2BR bungalow from the foundation up and finish in 6 months and that includes indoor plumbing and a truckload of Prestige.

That is shameful but then lions don't show up at the site of a kill. Vultures do.
 

Shiraz72

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Feb 10, 2010
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I have a number of friends from various Caribbean countries because I attend a lot of social functions and fundraisers here in Ottawa and have noted that for some reason, whenever the topic of all the recent disasters in Haiti comes up, I hear the phrase "what's happening over there is because of what's going on over there" and they're referring to the practice of voodoo... It seems ridiculous to me, in this day and age that people would are supersticious or would actually blame cultural or religious practices for natural disasters. Has anyone else ever heard this? It tends to be a heated subject in the Caribbean community here and although many Haitians attend the other community's events, the ones geared toward helping Haiti receive little support from the other Caribbean communities.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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They are morons. I just happened to see the results of a survey that asked people whether they considered natural disasters to be divine punishment: not surprisingly the highest percentage saying YES were those with the lowest education levels, and this percentage decreased as the level of education went up.
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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History has shown us that sick f*ckers can be found across the educational and intelligence spectrum.
 

Bernard Jean-Pierre

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Oct 31, 2010
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I have a number of friends from various Caribbean countries because I attend a lot of social functions and fundraisers here in Ottawa and have noted that for some reason, whenever the topic of all the recent disasters in Haiti comes up, I hear the phrase "what's happening over there is because of what's going on over there" and they're referring to the practice of voodoo... It seems ridiculous to me, in this day and age that people would are supersticious or would actually blame cultural or religious practices for natural disasters. Has anyone else ever heard this? It tends to be a heated subject in the Caribbean community here and although many Haitians attend the other community's events, the ones geared toward helping Haiti receive little support from the other Caribbean communities.

Thank You!! That is the most ignorant, stupid thing I have heard. "Oh its because they practice voodoo..." etc. WHAT?! I mean, seriously?? First of all, Voodoo is NOT the national religion. Whether people believe it or not but MANY Haitians have Christians based faiths. Its not like its a land full of witch doctors and voodoo priests. Yes voodoo is there, but voodoo is just a VARIANT of African based spiritualistic practices. You could put Santeria, Regla de Ocha in the EXACT same category....along with Palos. They are ALL variant religions. So you can not blame the Haitians and 'their voodoo' anymore than you can blame the misfiring's of Cuba's government on Santeria as NEITHER are Christian based faiths. With that type of blatantly stupid reasoning, I guess we could also conclude that the Tsunami's in Indonesia were ALSO some 'punishment' from God? And I guess the same could be said of Hurricane Katrina? 9/11? Give me a break! People who are all 'oh they don't serve the Lord, so he is punishing them' obviously have NO IDEA what the Bible says or teaches. Shame on them.