Criss Colon said:They were "Low Class", "WE" are "High Class" and thier vote doesn't count here!
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Who is "We"?
Criss Colon said:They were "Low Class", "WE" are "High Class" and thier vote doesn't count here!
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Well,Tordok said:I'm having eerily vivid flashbacks of my own experience from your example, HB. ..... all so typical of the old guard bourgeois in Santiago.
"Cual es tu apellido mijo,.... y el de tú mamá?" Tu estás emparentado con Don Fulano, el dueño de Tal y Tal, C por A.?" "Tu abuelo era muy amigo de mi tío..." yadda, yadda, yadda....:tired:
That crapola does take me back to my own youth when befriended some of my wealthy local classmates or even dared to ask on dates some of the "niñas-bien" of some of those very same old families you mentioned. I guess my special charms :lick: won them over despite my unorthodox beliefs and my alien status*, but going to any private party at a local rich folk's home meant being interviewed by one of the aunts or grandmothers at some point during the event, all the while the young people -my new "friends"- would exaggerate or emebellish my pedigree for me so that I would be acceptable to their matrons. Ridiculous, but "when in Rome.......
- Tordok
* anyone not from Santiago is considered to be "de fuera" among their upper crust.
HB,Hillbilly said:Interesting.
This weekend I had an experience that sort of points out what one of the posters referred to: Money don't make class.
As I went out to pick up the morning papers, I found the beautiful box from a bottle of Johnny Walker Green Label....there in the street.
My first thought was "What kind of a person would have the money to spend +/-RD$3500 for a bottle of good whiskey and then lack the brains to know that you shouldn't throw the empty out onto the street?"
I asked this of my corner "bodeguero" aand he answered:"HB, that person doesn't work." Which to me meant that it was some sort of hoodlum class person....sort of what I felt initially.
Class in the DR: Think back....You went to your girl/boy friend's house. You met her grandmother. What was the first thing out of the dear old lady's mouth?
"¿De quién es usted, mi hij@?"
She wanted to know who and where you were from. She wanted to know what "quality" you were from, too.
Part of living here, I suppose.
As an answer: Yes there is. But it can be porous, if the climber has any couth at all. For example, in Santiago, all the old families have disappeared from 'view' ....The Bermúdez, the Cabrals, the Espaillats, the Tavárez...are still there, but they are no longer the spokespersons for the local scene.
All of the new people have come up by dint of intelligence, education and hard work. 40 years ago there was just the Chamber of Commerce and Industry as a platform.
Now there is the Association of Merchants and Industrialists, the Association of Industrialists North Region, The Associaton for the Development of Santiago all of which serve as platforms for opinion and for forging opinions.
None of the above are headed by any of the old families....
HB
Nal0whs said:All this time I thought only the upper classes practiced this, only to realize that it exist at all levels of Dominican and perhaps, Caribbean societies. -NAL
I'm aware of this, but its still interesting to learn of the extent lower class Dominicans go through in this respect.Tordok said:Hey Nal,
I think that pretty much all Dominicans pay serious attention to the social provenance of their new acquaintances. It is more noticeable among upper classes in many contexts, but in the specific context of future spouses etc, I think everyone in every culture wants to find out about who's aspiring to form family with their girl/boy.
Keep in mind that historically in virtually all cultures, marriage was until very recently a transaction between families and not much consideration given to any actual romantic interests of the couple.
'Tutumpotes' is how I have always heard the word as well, but I must have misspelled the word in english.Tordok said:I've always heard the word as 'Tutumpotes' , but I belive it does derive from "Totem Pole". Totem poles of course are very tall, ceremonial wooden structures with various carved figures, one on top of the next used by some of the Native tribal peoples of the Pacific Northwest (US/Canada). The ones at the entrance of the Royal Ontario museum in Toronto are the most impressive example that I've personally seen. In Dominican lingo, tutumpotes/tutumpoles are members of the old ruling families, because they have always been on top of the 'social totem pole'.
- Tordok
:classic:
Chirimoya said:IMO, true class means you feel comfortable enough not to have to flaunt your wealth via status symbols. .
mondongo said:chiri, your acuity on display again. The fact is that there is little "class" in the DR. everyone flaunts. the poor just can't do it as frequently and as ostentatiously as the rich. the very richest stay out of the limelight....mainly for self-preservation.
Scandall said:Having money does not mean you have courtesy and respect for others.
Scandall
Texas Bill said:.... It follows that we, as part of the race, would, through selective breeding, constantly seek to improve the race.
Classism is, in my estimation, only one way by which such is accomplished.
Since I'm not an Anthropologist, I might have an opinion skewed by a background of observing human interactions unscientifically.
Classism, Eliteism and such words, to me, merely describe coloquially, the obvious efforts of humanity to bring about a genetically driven goal inherent in all of us.
We may not like it, we may not embrace it, but in the long run, it is part of our collective psyche and we must accept it as fact. Texas Bill
Flamingojohn said:I think the "selective breeding" word usage is a bit too strong in reference to humans. If there were a master race implementing breeding practices that would make a bit more sense, but as I see things "breeding" is far too animalistic. As for the "selective" part of your comments- selection is and always will be an inherrent part of human nature. I don't believe it is fully genetically based, but that there is a great deal of environmental influence as well. As for the original classist question- I think it is a toss up between US and DR on who is worse. I will say that in the DR it is not hidden nearly as much as in the US. Class distinctions exist in both societies, but in the US it is more an "invisible window" between the classes. These are my observations at least...
Texas Bill said:I believe that such phenomenon is, perhaps, genetically driven. Throughout history, from the begining of the Human Race (as postulaed by many) the preservation of the "best qualities" of humanity have been vigorously pursued.
It follows that we, as part of the race, would, through selective breeding, constantly seek to improve the race.
Classism is, in my estimation, only one way by which such is accomplished.
Since I'm not an Anthropologist, I might have an opinion skewed by a background of observing human interactions unscientifically.
Classism, Eliteism and such words, to me, merely describe coloquially, the obvious efforts of humanity to bring about a genetically driven goal inherent in all of us.
Texas Bill
Texas Bill said:I believe that such phenomenon is, perhaps, genetically driven. Throughout history, from the begining of the Human Race (as postulaed by many) the preservation of the "best qualities" of humanity have been vigorously pursued.
It follows that we, as part of the race, would, through selective breeding, constantly seek to improve the race.
Classism is, in my estimation, only one way by which such is accomplished.
Since I'm not an Anthropologist, I might have an opinion skewed by a background of observing human interactions unscientifically.
Classism, Eliteism and such words, to me, merely describe coloquially, the obvious efforts of humanity to bring about a genetically driven goal inherent in all of us.
Texas Bill