something_of_the_night said:
No choice? They approved the mission. They had plenty of say in the matter.
Scandall
- Thread starter Rick Snyder
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Observations from the Frontier III
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No choice? They approved the mission. They had plenty of say in the matter.
Scandall
Scandall said:
Actually, Chavez failed in both coup attempts. Like Aesop's fable of the hare and the tortoise (a quite unconventional tortoise indeed ;-), and like Gabo's Chronicle of a Death Foretold, everyone in Venezuela, including the household pets, were following Chavez' conspiratorial mechinations from Maracay's airforce base, even then President Carlos Andres Perez was forwarned and was waiting for him... Like the fable, el 'loco' Chavez became a popular hero, and after being pardoned by President Rafael Caldera, participated in the presidential elections of 1998 which he won with over 56% of the vote. If the CIA had more intelligent people in their employ, Chavez would have taken the route of the revered Che Guevara....
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Because of the DR being the country that it is it becomes apparent that it needs all the help it can get. As the “Operation New Horizons” is a yearly exercise conducted by the US military and is always scheduled at least one year in advance and as the US works with the involved country in the preparation of plans it only seems likely that the DR government thought that the Barahona area would serve well for the staging of this exercise.
The US military is an organization completely self sufficient and requires no civilians in their operations even though they do in fact use civilians but this is only because they have been forced to by the powers that be.
US military exercises are conducted for the sole purpose of training said military for war and natural calamities. The scenario for almost all of this would require the mobilization of troops using the navy and landing on a beach and transportation to the area of operation be it by vehicle and/or air. All of this is factored into the preparations of the exercise. Once reaching the area of operations the elements of the military need guinea pigs (subjects), to practice their skills that they have been trained to perform. This will be required for their Engineer units that have been trained to build roads, buildings, bridges, drill wells and the like or it could be their Medical units that have been trained to administer aid to people, animals, purify water and the like. The military police and transportation units and a host of others need actual hands on experience to stay proficient in their trained skills. When these exercises are underway the military is play acting a role of invader or humanitarian aid giver and try to factor in all the scenarios that would befall such a contingency.
“Operation New Horizons” here in the DR this year serves as a very valuable tool to the US military for its role of training the troops in simulated combat or humanitarian operations. At the same time the DR gains much needed help in the care and diagnoses of medical problems of its citizens and animals along with the possible construction of facilities be they buildings, wells, roads, bridges or a host of other things.
On 31 May when the troops leave the DR there will be a large number of troops that will go back home and realize how well they have it after seeing how the people here in the DR live. A large number of those troops will feel good because they had the opportunity to practice their taught skills and actually helped someone or an animal or did something that will make life easier for a people that have less then they.
These training exercises are a mandatory requirement for the US military and nothing you say or think will stop them from happening. Having said that then if you were the president of this fine country would you tell the US to go pixx up a wet rope or would you say ‘ sure, come on in and conduct your exercise and give free training to my troops and much needed care to my citizens and while you’re at it how about drilling a few wells and building a few clinics’. I think we know the answer to that.
As I see it “Operation New Horizons” is a win – win situation for all those involved.
Rick
The US military is an organization completely self sufficient and requires no civilians in their operations even though they do in fact use civilians but this is only because they have been forced to by the powers that be.
US military exercises are conducted for the sole purpose of training said military for war and natural calamities. The scenario for almost all of this would require the mobilization of troops using the navy and landing on a beach and transportation to the area of operation be it by vehicle and/or air. All of this is factored into the preparations of the exercise. Once reaching the area of operations the elements of the military need guinea pigs (subjects), to practice their skills that they have been trained to perform. This will be required for their Engineer units that have been trained to build roads, buildings, bridges, drill wells and the like or it could be their Medical units that have been trained to administer aid to people, animals, purify water and the like. The military police and transportation units and a host of others need actual hands on experience to stay proficient in their trained skills. When these exercises are underway the military is play acting a role of invader or humanitarian aid giver and try to factor in all the scenarios that would befall such a contingency.
“Operation New Horizons” here in the DR this year serves as a very valuable tool to the US military for its role of training the troops in simulated combat or humanitarian operations. At the same time the DR gains much needed help in the care and diagnoses of medical problems of its citizens and animals along with the possible construction of facilities be they buildings, wells, roads, bridges or a host of other things.
On 31 May when the troops leave the DR there will be a large number of troops that will go back home and realize how well they have it after seeing how the people here in the DR live. A large number of those troops will feel good because they had the opportunity to practice their taught skills and actually helped someone or an animal or did something that will make life easier for a people that have less then they.
These training exercises are a mandatory requirement for the US military and nothing you say or think will stop them from happening. Having said that then if you were the president of this fine country would you tell the US to go pixx up a wet rope or would you say ‘ sure, come on in and conduct your exercise and give free training to my troops and much needed care to my citizens and while you’re at it how about drilling a few wells and building a few clinics’. I think we know the answer to that.
As I see it “Operation New Horizons” is a win – win situation for all those involved.
Rick
For those of you who have first-hand knowledge of this:
- How do they target the area and the particular communities they are going to work in?
-Do they do any previous needs assessments taking into account the opinions of the local communities?
- Are local community representatives involved in the design, implentation and continuity of the project?
- Is there follow-up, monitoring and evaluation in the medium-long term?
If not, these sort of operations are only appropriate in the case of emergency situations, where the troops have no choice but to fly in and out with much preparation/planning. If the idea is to provide long-term, sustainable development, this is more often than not a waste of everyone's time and the US army's money. Apart from the training and good PR.
- How do they target the area and the particular communities they are going to work in?
-Do they do any previous needs assessments taking into account the opinions of the local communities?
- Are local community representatives involved in the design, implentation and continuity of the project?
- Is there follow-up, monitoring and evaluation in the medium-long term?
If not, these sort of operations are only appropriate in the case of emergency situations, where the troops have no choice but to fly in and out with much preparation/planning. If the idea is to provide long-term, sustainable development, this is more often than not a waste of everyone's time and the US army's money. Apart from the training and good PR.
Chirimoya said:
From my understanding.... The only "consultations" are done with the government of the host country through the liason at the US Embassy if not the ambassador himself. All needs assesments are left up to the host government taking into account specific training requirements that the military units must accomplish. Local opinions, as in the local populace of the area the units will be stationed, is left up to the host country. As for the waste of money, all funds are allocated through the yearly budgets and training exercises are actually planned 2 years or more in advance to allow for logistics. The training will happen no matter where the units are going. Each national guard unit has a yearly training quota this must be fulfilled. Doesn't matter where they go as long as it's within budget. From a military point of view this was not a waste of money, from a PR point of view.... well that is not factored in as long as the host government approves. The units are in the DR for training and nothing else. The money they spend during their time off from duties is meant to appease the local populace. Any of the local folks that complained were "crying into their beer." They complained while at the sametime taking the money to the bank or the mattress. The vocal minority was nothing more than a "dog and pony show" meant get some attention. Normally a TDY (temporary duty) assignment like this brings several thousand dollars worth of business to the local businesses. Longer stays can bring in upwards of US$1 million depending on the training mission and length of stay. Everybody wins. Most people will never look at all the benefits that a mission like this brings to the area and will only point out maybe 1 or 2 disadvantages.
Mirador said:
Where was I? I was at my local bar, crying into MY beer, and over thinking like I always do my plan of attack towards this hot black haired/green eyed babe I was scoping. For some reason I got distracted and went with the blonde. I hate having so many choices. :bunny:
Chirimoya,
As Leromero said all the ifs ands and buts are arranged by the host country. The US gov tells them the type of training that needs to be done and the types of units involved. It is the host country that determines where these operations take place but at the same time the area must meet certain prerequisites to instill a natural atmosphere to the type of exercise that is being simulated. There is no reason for the US to do any assessments as they depend on the host government to know what they want where. There is no plan “to provide long-term, sustainable development” on the US side as the sole function of the US military in these exercises is to conduct training for its troops and logistics and there is no waste of money if the training and/or PR were obtained.
A smart host country, if they had the true welfare of their citizens in mind, would do all the necessary studies to help insure long term, sustainable development for their country. I remember reading in another thread that someone said that after the troops left a prior exercise that the DR military moved into the buildings that the US military constructed. You can’t blame the US for that and in reality the US doesn’t care who uses the facilities once they leave. As long as the US military gets their required training in is all that matters. If the training is done in the desert of Arizona or the DR doesn’t matter as the money will be spent one way or the other. The difference being that the environment in the DR is much closer to the real thing in that you are training in a foreign land where a different language is spoken and the mental image of being in a hostile environment is easily obtained.
For everyone,
Nobody has brought it up as a bad outcome of this exercise but the only bad part that I remember was the DR police and military causing some injuries to some Dominicans during a protest. If memory serves me correctly this only happened once and had nothing to do with the US military other then the supposed reason behind the protest. So why did this altercation happen?
Let’s just suppose that President Fox schedules a trip to Puerto Vallarta and when he arrives there the PRD forms a protest in the same vicinity that Fox is in. What do you think will happen? Or how about your buddy Ch?vez? He makes a scheduled trip to Car?pano and the "civil society" forms a protest at the same time in the same place. Do you think everyone would “do their thing” together or do you think those whose purpose is to protect Hugo would take some action to break it up?
President Fernandez in Barahona? Wait a minute, weren’t those protesters factions of the PLD? No you say? Hummmmmmmmm.
Rick
As Leromero said all the ifs ands and buts are arranged by the host country. The US gov tells them the type of training that needs to be done and the types of units involved. It is the host country that determines where these operations take place but at the same time the area must meet certain prerequisites to instill a natural atmosphere to the type of exercise that is being simulated. There is no reason for the US to do any assessments as they depend on the host government to know what they want where. There is no plan “to provide long-term, sustainable development” on the US side as the sole function of the US military in these exercises is to conduct training for its troops and logistics and there is no waste of money if the training and/or PR were obtained.
A smart host country, if they had the true welfare of their citizens in mind, would do all the necessary studies to help insure long term, sustainable development for their country. I remember reading in another thread that someone said that after the troops left a prior exercise that the DR military moved into the buildings that the US military constructed. You can’t blame the US for that and in reality the US doesn’t care who uses the facilities once they leave. As long as the US military gets their required training in is all that matters. If the training is done in the desert of Arizona or the DR doesn’t matter as the money will be spent one way or the other. The difference being that the environment in the DR is much closer to the real thing in that you are training in a foreign land where a different language is spoken and the mental image of being in a hostile environment is easily obtained.
For everyone,
Nobody has brought it up as a bad outcome of this exercise but the only bad part that I remember was the DR police and military causing some injuries to some Dominicans during a protest. If memory serves me correctly this only happened once and had nothing to do with the US military other then the supposed reason behind the protest. So why did this altercation happen?
Let’s just suppose that President Fox schedules a trip to Puerto Vallarta and when he arrives there the PRD forms a protest in the same vicinity that Fox is in. What do you think will happen? Or how about your buddy Ch?vez? He makes a scheduled trip to Car?pano and the "civil society" forms a protest at the same time in the same place. Do you think everyone would “do their thing” together or do you think those whose purpose is to protect Hugo would take some action to break it up?
President Fernandez in Barahona? Wait a minute, weren’t those protesters factions of the PLD? No you say? Hummmmmmmmm.
Rick
Mirador said:
So are you trying to convince me or yourself?
One must be extreemely naive to belive that a countries leader (Chavez) would allow an Al Queda training camp on an island that he himself uses to hold meetings with Castro & Morales without having ties to Al Queda itself.
And please do not be naive enough to think that he does not know of the existance of this camp. I have personal knowledge that Venezuelan troops are more than aware of its existance and of the training that goes on there.
Now please answer the rest of the question, for a maybe not so stupid a gringo as you thought.
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gary short
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gary short
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Mirador said:
Hmmm...gas is cheaper than water in Venezuela but I assume you want to stay here to be with your family.
Actually, I might have an opening in my crash test dummy department.
What are your qualifications? Only leftists need apply.
Scandall
gary short said:
Gary:
I took Mirador's reference to "Google" and read about the Carlyle Group and saw and heard the video. I was surprised at the magnitude of operations of that company and can understand his reference to it.
As to being "wind-baggy" (in which post--there are a lot of them I get that way with), well, I just must plead guilty. I do get carried away at times. But don't require you to read them unless you really feel compelled to.
OK?
Sorry to have bored you.
Texas Bill
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