Observations from the Frontier III

[Texas Bill]

Exactly! the mission to militarily occupy Venezuelan oil fields and production facilities...It is no coincidence that suddently there is an underground movement in the State of Zulia (main petroleum region) to secceed and create an independent republic, just like the Bush Administration is trying to do in Iraq by fomenting civil war and create three independent regions along ethnic lines: the Kurds, the Sunnis, and the Shiites...

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Has it by chance occurred to you, Mirador, that the "underground movement" is instigated by the indigenous people ofthe area? Maybe they don't want Chavez in the "driver's seat", to do with the national wealth of Venezuela as he wishes. And his stated brag that he will reamain in power through 2031 sounds a great deal like a dictator to many people.
As to the US having "fomented" civil war in iraq, you certainly don't read the same news reports that many on this board have done. The main thrust of the civil disturbances have come from avowed Al Quieda supporters and not from the majority of Iraquis and Kurds. The allusion that the split is between Sunni's, Shiites and Kurds is erroneous. Yes, they each want a larger piece of the pie and are maneuvering, politically, to gain such. That, in and of itself, soesn't mean that they won't come to an equitable arrangement within the governing bodies.
Wait and see instead of making wild, unfounded accusations against a single element.
One hopes that the unholy Phoenix of dictatorship doesn't rise from the ashes and again devour that nation which is struggling to emerge from the chaos that now exists.
In adition, you have consistantly twisted events to fit your own agenda; that being primarily Anti US propaganda. And you haven't done a very convincing job of it since your logic is skewed and fallacious, to say the least.

Texas Bill

 

[Celt202]

A Modest Proposal

Has it by chance occurred to you, Mirador, that the "underground movement" is instigated by the indigenous people ofthe area? Maybe they don't want Chavez in the "driver's seat", to do with the national wealth of Venezuela as he wishes. And his stated brag that he will reamain in power through 2031 sounds a great deal like a dictator to many people.
As to the US having "fomented" civil war in iraq, you certainly don't read the same news reports that many on this board have done. The main thrust of the civil disturbances have come from avowed Al Quieda supporters and not from the majority of Iraquis and Kurds. The allusion that the split is between Sunni's, Shiites and Kurds is erroneous. Yes, they each want a larger piece of the pie and are maneuvering, politically, to gain such. That, in and of itself, soesn't mean that they won't come to an equitable arrangement within the governing bodies.
Wait and see instead of making wild, unfounded accusations against a single element.
One hopes that the unholy Phoenix of dictatorship doesn't rise from the ashes and again devour that nation which is struggling to emerge from the chaos that now exists.
In adition, you have consistantly twisted events to fit your own agenda; that being primarily Anti US propaganda. And you haven't done a very convincing job of it since your logic is skewed and fallacious, to say the least.

Texas Bill

Bill;

It may be that some people just miss Saddam. I suggest installing the esteemed bald ex president of the DR as interim dictator in Iraq while they sort things out.

 

[Texas Bill]

That would surely get their undivided attention, wouldn't it?

Just imagine the Iraqui reaction to Hipolito's first TV Show.

Texas Bill

 

[something_of_the_night]

We all read the "news" this weekend regarding Ch?vez's comments. Yeah, we read it; it was sent out by AP, and picked by FAUX-TV, CNN, and the like.

Can someone let me know when a reputable news source carries it?

Mirador, they laughed at you a couple of years ago when you reported on the shipment of weapons to the border. Then Aristide was "resigned" by the neocons. The cabal is making Leo Strauss proud.

ON EDIT: The above statements are full of "truthiness" and will surely rile up the base - the he's-got-our-oil camp

-The Kid

 

[Texas Bill]

We all read the "news" this weekend regarding Ch?vez's comments. Yeah, we read it; it was sent out by AP, and picked by FAUX-TV, CNN, and the like.

Can someone let me know when a reputable news source carries it?

Mirador, they laughed at you a couple of years ago when you reported on the shipment of weapons to the border. Then Aristide was "resigned" by the neocons. The cabal is making Leon Strauss proud.

-The Kid

Hey Kid--- Just exactly WHICH news source would you qualify as "reputable".
Seems to me you're begging the issue here. Or isit that you just don't want to believe the report?
How sad
You wanna live under a dictatorship, be my guest. i prefer to walk without having to look over my shoulder and guard my speech, thank you.
i don't recall laughing at Mirador about his report of weapons shipments to the border, either. You grabbing words outa the hat again?/

Texas Bill

 

[RHM]

Hey Kid--- Just exactly WHICH news source would you qualify as "reputable".
Seems to me you're begging the issue here. Or isit that you just don't want to believe the report?
How sad
You wanna live under a dictatorship, be my guest. i prefer to walk without having to look over my shoulder and guard my speech, thank you.
i don't recall laughing at Mirador about his report of weapons shipments to the border, either. You grabbing words outa the hat again?/

Texas Bill

I was going to ask the same question. But why bother?

The Economist has published several articles about Chavez and his consolidation of power, corruption, abolition of the opposition and neglect of the Venezuelan infrastructure. The only thing keeping him afloat is the high price of oil. He is a typical populist leader. Everything is always about him. His TV show. His 4 hour speeches. It's all Chavez all the time. Kind of entertaining actually.

I supposed The Economist is not a good reference either. I'm not a fan of Bush and criticize him all the time. Chavez followers are often zealots who either cannot see or do not want to see any of the bad that comes with a guy like him.

Scandall

 

[Texas Bill]

Scandal:

I've come to the conclusion that people like Mirador and something in the night read news reports then tear them to pieces and "paraphrase" the living devil out of them to skew the original meaning. They take commentary out of context and reword it to their liking. Either that or they apply fallacious reasoning to these reports and create an entirely different meaning to whatwas written. In thefinal analysis, their intent is to obscure the truthfulness and make it a lie. The OP here is a case in point. All the rhetoric is about the weapons and warlike equipment; nothing about the medical and infrastructure aspects of the "Barahona" scenario, Just more "anti-everything" andnothing positive. Their tirades are simply posturing, like their mentors "Chavez and company". All they want to do is live off the taxes of the masses and not do a lick of work themselves.

Texas Bill

 

[something_of_the_night]

Minds are rarely changed in public forums...

But some of you rely too much on mainstream media. What Ch?vez said differs from what the Rove-controlled MSM gave you.

When was the last--or first--time you guys read the Bolivarian Constitution? Most of you don't even know your own. So, don't bother with the first question.

I guess referendums only apply to Rethugs in California.

-The Kid

 

[Cleef]

I've changed my mind!!

I think Scandall was invented by Al Gore to come to the DR and sway digital opinion away from the truth.

 

[aegap]

I was going to ask the same question. But why bother?

The Economist has published several articles about Chavez and his consolidation of power, corruption, abolition of the opposition and neglect of the Venezuelan infrastructure. The only thing keeping him afloat is the high price of oil. He is a typical populist leader. Everything is always about him. His TV show. His 4 hour speeches. It's all Chavez all the time. Kind of entertaining actually.

I supposed The Economist is not a good reference either. I'm not a fan of Bush and criticize him all the time. Chavez followers are often zealots who either cannot see or do not want to see any of the bad that comes with a guy like him.

Scandall

Scandall
if you know The Economist perspective, you should also know to be very careful with your interpretation of what you read

dont get me wrong- I love The Economist and could not do without it...(especially like the current EU-image-making-advise-article)

 

[Texas Bill]

But some of you rely too much on mainstream media. What Ch?vez said differs from what the Rove-controlled MSM gave you.

When was the last--or first--time you guys read the Bolivarian Constitution? Most of you don't even know your own. So, don't bother with the first question.

I guess referendums only apply to Rethugs in California.

-The Kid

Just what did Chavez say that differed from the alledged "Rove-controlled" Free US Press and Media?
I'd really liketo know just exact;y what you
re talking about>
BTW I just finished reading the "Bolivarian Constitution" andfound it quite interesting/\. Very similar to the US Constitution from which it was copied, paraphrased, whatever with all it's embellishments.
A well written documant.

Texas Bill

 

[Mirador]

BTW I just finished reading the "Bolivarian Constitution" andfound it quite interesting/\. Very similar to the US Constitution from which it was copied, paraphrased, whatever with all it's embellishments. Texas Bill

LOL!!! Bill, I didn't know you could be funny... For starters, just tell me which Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America establishes a recall referendum for the president?

-

 

[aegap]

the US Constitution does not set-out a return policy- U.S voters are stuck with what most vote for (sometimes the least voted for) ..

 

[Texas Bill]

LOL!!! Bill, I didn't know you could be funny... For starters, just tell me which Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America establishes a recall referendum for the president?

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Laugh out loud yourself! You are reading what you want to read, pardner. Recall for the President is not in the Constitution, as you well know. The reference was meant to be a COMPLIMENT not a statement of the Bolivarian Constitution being an exact copy, numbskull. You know that and I know that.
Think you I'm a dummy? Back off. Your attempt to discredit are of no consequence and show you up.
I know where you're coming from by your posts and will remain opposed to your way of thinking in the economic arena.

Texas Bill

 

[Docopac]

Mirador You seem to be very knowledgeable concerning Venezuelan politics. Could you please explain Chavez's facination and close friendship with Fidel Castro? Please also let us know about Evo Morales while you are at it as well as the many meetings between them on Margarita Island off the coast of Venezuela. Oh yes since I mentioned Margarita what about the Al Queda training camp on the Macano peninsula of that island.

Please explain these things to me since I am nothing more than a stupid gringo.

Then since you seem to also be knowledgable about the U.S. Millitary and thier plans to invade Venezuela please explain to me how all of this will take place.

Enquiring minds would like to know.

Sincerely
Docopac

 

[Mirador]

Mirador You seem to be very knowledgeable concerning Venezuelan politics. Could you please explain Chavez's facination and close friendship with Fidel Castro? Please also let us know about Evo Morales while you are at it as well as the many meetings between them on Margarita Island off the coast of Venezuela. Oh yes since I mentioned Margarita what about the Al Queda training camp on the Macano peninsula of that island.

Please explain these things to me since I am nothing more than a stupid gringo.

Then since you seem to also be knowledgable about the U.S. Millitary and thier plans to invade Venezuela please explain to me how all of this will take place.

Enquiring minds would like to know.

Sincerely
Docopac

Docopac, have you visited the Macanao peninsula? Then you'll understand why anyone would go there, maybe even including Usama bin Laden... However, the place is visited mostly by German tourists... It is the most uninhabited part of Margarita Island, a beautiful desert expanse, surrounded by breathtaking white sand treeless beaches... It reminds me, somehow, of my native DR Southwest. The best way to approach Macanao is by hitching a ride on an outboard and meander a slow lazy pace through the La Restinga lagoon, an intricate labyrinth of mangrove canals, where you can easily lose your way. Many times I would ride with a cooler full of cold beer and two bucketfuls of oysters, from the mangroves, to eat on the way. From the lagoon, you will see on your left side an outstanding geological feature, twin hills, perfectly shaped, that are named 'Las Tetas de Mar?a Guevara'. It so happens that in its bootlegging heydays, Margarita Island had a queen of the bootleggers, a woman by the name of Mar?a Guevara, who happened to be ineradicably flat chested, like a plank of wood. So the natives, in her honor, christened the twin hills in her name.

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[RHM]

the US Constitution does not set-out a return policy- U.S voters are stuck with what most vote for (sometimes the least voted for) ..

"Sometimes the least voted for"????

I can only assume that you are referring to the popular vote versus the electoral college. Try to remember that 51% of the US population resides in only 5 states. Without the electoral college those few states could control elections for the remaining 45. The electoral college makes sense.

There is no federal recall statute but Presidents are subject to impeachment which can result in removal from office.

With very few exceptions, the US system of checks and balances works pretty well.

Scandall

 

[leromero]

"Sometimes the least voted for"????

I can only assume that you are referring to the popular vote versus the electoral college. Try to remember that 51% of the US population resides in only 5 states. Without the electoral college those few states could control elections for the remaining 45. The electoral college makes sense.

There is no federal recall statute but Presidents are subject to impeachment which can result in removal from office.

With very few exceptions, the US system of checks and balances works pretty well.

Scandall

Yes but the popular vote would still be better than using the electoral college. 51% is still the majority and that is what should count. It's not a state vs state thing. It's all about what the majority of the population wants. The electoral college is un-democratic. Of course the US is not really a true democratic society anyway. From my experience there are other countries with more freedoms than the US has, but this line of argument is way off topic for this thread.

I'm still a little more pro-US Military than not. Mostly because I have been in that environment, lived and worked with those folks, and had access to information that most civilians did not. I understand how the military works and the extent of the influence that the politicians have on the military. I see things from a totally different perspective. Not necessarily better, just different.

 

[RHM]

Yes but the popular vote would still be better than using the electoral college. 51% is still the majority and that is what should count. It's not a state vs state thing. It's all about what the majority of the population wants. The electoral college is un-democratic. Of course the US is not really a true democratic society anyway. From my experience there are other countries with more freedoms than the US has, but this line of argument is way off topic for this thread.

I'm still a little more pro-US Military than not. Mostly because I have been in that environment, lived and worked with those folks, and had access to information that most civilians did not. I understand how the military works and the extent of the influence that the politicians have on the military. I see things from a totally different perspective. Not necessarily better, just different.

The popular vs. electoral debate is an interesting one. The two major US parties bounce back and forth on their opinions...depending on how they have done in the most recent election. But I don't want to get off topic either.

As for "true" democracy, there has never really been one. The USA founding fathers detested the idea because direct democracies are dangerous. The early papers written by them make it obvious that a representative republic was what they wanted. ("and to the Republic for which it stands"...not..."and to the Democracy for which it stands").

Interesting stuff.

I typically support the military too. I spent some time in the US Army (both enlisted and commissioned) and have seen the professionalism. Those looking in from the outside typically have warped views of the way things work.

Scandall

 

[Texas Bill]

Docopac, have you visited the Macanao peninsula? Then you'll understand why anyone would go there, maybe even including Usama bin Laden... However, the place is visited mostly by German tourists... It is the most uninhabited part of Margarita Island, a beautiful desert expanse, surrounded by breathtaking white sand treeless beaches... It reminds me, somehow, of my native DR Southwest. The best way to approach Macanao is by hitching a ride on an outboard and meander a slow lazy pace through the La Restinga lagoon, an intricate labyrinth of mangrove canals, where you can easily lose your way. Many times I would ride with a cooler full of cold beer and two bucketfuls of oysters, from the mangroves, to eat on the way. From the lagoon, you will see on your left side an outstanding geological feature, twin hills, perfectly shaped, that are named 'Las Tetas de Mar?a Guevara'. It so happens that in its bootlegging heydays, Margarita Island had a queen of the bootleggers, a woman by the name of Mar?a Guevara, who happened to be ineradicably flat chested, like a plank of wood. So the natives, in her honor, christened the twin hills in her name.

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Mirador;

As usual, you skirt around the direct response mode and go off into the descriptiveness of an entiely unrelated scenario.
your methodology of redirection ofthe subject is well known.
Why can't you just snswer the question and be done with it. or is it that you don't really want to answer a question as pointed as the one you avoided in your very descriptive answer.
Weasel out of that question, pardner and be a man about it.

Texas Bill