Please help the gringo dancing boy

jose?to

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Hey, MamIndie, these guys never gave Hector Lavoe much credit when he was around. However, they are claiming him after his death. Maelo was a better singer than Marc Anthony, and so are ten or twenty other salsa singers.

-Jose?to
 

chicker

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Huh?

I've never had a post deleted before, but there's at least one missing from this thread.
Geez, what'd I say, what'd I say?
Something about Gisselle?
What?
I am confused
SLM
 

Jersey Devil

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Amen!

jose?to said:
Hey, MamIndie, these guys never gave Hector Lavoe much credit when he was around. However, they are claiming him after his death. Maelo was a better singer than Marc Anthony, and so are ten or twenty other salsa singers.

-Jose?to

Joseito,

Finally an opinion I agree with you 100 percent on.

Te cuida hermano,

M
 
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jose?to

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I need to clarify that I wasn't putting down Marc Anthony at all. And I agree that he's a superb showman, but when it comes to salsa, one has to actually pay attention; it's more than just showmanship and great voice.

Villa Trina, I'm glad we agree on this.

-Jose?to
I was salsa when salsa wasn't cool
 

Golo100

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Joseito

Please explain what you mean by "I was salsa when salsa wasn't cool".

For one, salsa has always been cool and it was even cooler in the old days. So your phrase somehow is out of joint.

As to Marc Anthony vs. Hector Lavoe, I remember I went to parties with Lavoe singing where he lost his voice due to drugs or other problems. Lavoe was an excellent salsa singer and one of the best. But Marc Anthony is the complete showman. Marc is miles ahead with a much stronger voice and stage presence. Marc can sing anything, from salsa, to ballads to pop music. He has been successful in both Spanish and English and is even an actor.

Marc Anthony has something other actual salsa singers don't have. He puts together the best musicians and arrangements, sort of a new Salsa All Star for his performances and the music behind him complement his superstar voice and charisma.

Having seen both live(Marc Anthony in Chicago's SummerFest and twice in DR and Hector Lavoe at the St.George Hotel and other parties) and listening to their records for years, I have to pick Marc over Hector, who is a very close second, only in salsa. Marc has too much of the other stuff to be in the shadow of anybody.

My third pick has to be Ismael Miranda, who is today a shadow of what he was. By the way, I had the pleasure of dancing at the old Colgate Gardens with both Miranda and Willie Colon with Lavoe singing. All three put together did not weight more than 330lbs. together. Today Miranda and Willie weight over 500lbs. and look like old beat up slobs. What a pitty. They should retire from music instead of hanging around.

At their last shows in Santo Domingo I felt pity for them.


TW
 
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Marc Anthony looks like a dehydrated frog. No wonder he wears those dark glasses to keep those buggy eyes in. What money does to buy a woman. He's a dufus!
 

jose?to

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golo...

When I say, 'I was salsa when salsa wasn't cool', I speak to those that didn't enjoy it as much as I did, but who now jump on the bandwagon. I remember having conversations with people that would only credit Ruben Blades for putting salsa on the map, while ignoring the real salsa icons that came before Blades.

Now, I know you have the right to call M. Anthony the all-time greatest salsa singer and great all-around performer. However, don't you think that being a 'jack of all trades' takes away from becoming great in one area? Marc Anthony branches out too far, while Lavoe was strictly a salsa singer. Mickey Mantle was a better all-around player than Lou Brock, but Brock stole more bases cuz that was his specialty. So, in the category of base-stealing, Brock was far superior. Reggie Miller is far better than Michael Jordan from the three-point range.

Salsa's hipness stems from it's syncopated beat. Most non-Puerto Ricans who "love" salsa are just real good dancers, but would they love it if they couldn't dance to it? I'm a pata e' plomo myself and, as such, have learned to appreciate it from a distance, sort of like a blind person keenly tuning in to the other senses out of necessity.

Golo, along that same Taupin/Elton dilemma: did Col?n make Lavoe, or viceversa, or was it chance?

Question to all: Which salsa tune do you consider the greatest of all times?

-Jose?to
I was also 'country' when 'country' wasn't cool, but I'm a johnny-come-lately to Southern Rock, the music of the gods.
 

Tony C

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Country never was. is not nor ever will be "Cool"
"Southern Rock"? I hated it in the 70's why should anybody like it now? Ok Marshall Tucker band was ok.....But If I hear Skynrd one more time or some trailer trash screaming "Free Bird!" I am going to go Columbine on somebody.
 

jose?to

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Tony C....

Fair enough. However, there are millions of people who think C&W is cool. And you don't necessarily have to experience a desenga?o to enjoy it. Then again, a man has not lived until he experiences a heartbreak, 'cause women WILL break our hearts.

Oh, yeah, I was also 'Blue Grass'...and don't tell me that it isn't cool. Ain't that right, MaineGirl?

SLM, I hope you're enjoying your merengue downloads. You never responded (no problem; I hope it had nothing to do with my political views), but don't forget Bonny Cepeda; Grupo Mania and most PR groups are copying the stuff he experimented with years ago.

Golo, Ismael Miranda--the former 'ni?o lindo de la Fania'--was a great salsa singer, but there was another 'Ismael' (Rivera) who set the stage for today's soneros. I'm inclined to rank him ahead of Lavoe, eventhough Hector is my all-time favorite. I even think that Andy Monta?ez ranks higher than Miranda. And how 'bout Ralphy Levitt?

-Jose?to
A trailer-park trash pariguayo. And proud.
 

Tony C

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BlueGrass is way "Cool"
The music that best expresses the pain of heartbreak for me is the "Blues". Not R&B but real southern Blues.
Pop in a Robert Johnson CD and learn what pain, suffering and heartbreak truly sounds like. For a more current artist I suggest Robert Cray.
 

Golo100

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Joseito

Willie Colon was sort of a Wilfrido Vargas. He sorted out the best singing talent he could find and then turn them into stars. Colon was the best young salsa trombone player and organized his band early on. He was so small and young his trombone looked bigger. He was hansome and had a great personality.

He made Hector Lavoe, but Lavoe would have been discovered by someone else anyway. Yet credit has to be given to Colon. His eye for organizing top bands was incredible. He later tried singing with his off-key voice, which surprisingly enough had a catchy sound for the salsa being made at the time. Some of the songs he sang are among classics today that never die.

I did not intend to forget Ralphy Leavitt when I mentioned great singers. But the real voice for his band La Selecta was Sammy Marrero, a virtuoso almost equal to Marc Anthony and Lavoe. What I would entertain is that Ralphy Leavitt and La Selecta is the best salsa band ever, even better than El Gran Combo. I know this is heresy. But El Gran Combo was a very steady, consistent and conservative band, that in my opinion did not qualify as a true salsa band. Salsa was a different rythmn. El Gran Combo was a Guaguanco band, just like Richie Ray. Salsa was a new modern breed, that even today's artists have not been able to re-invent.

La Selecta had an innovative rythmn that caught the ears and imagination of every salsa fan during their prime. They were so good people just could not believe what they heard. When one of their members died in an accident, it became almost like a salsa worlwide funeral and a new song was named after this accident, which became the national anthem for every salsa fan. They turned the guajira rythmn into a powerful statement. Today's salsa singers have totally abandoned this genre. Yet, when you drive thru poor neighborhoods in Santo Domingo, even young kids listen to La Selecta, Colon, and Miranda as if it was new music just coming out.

The crop of salsa bands today is so bad, that if something is not done soon, it may end up like the merengue, which is almost dead. Only Marc Anthony, Gilberto Santa Rosa and Victor Manuelle are keeping salsa alive. El Gran Combo came out recently with their best LP ever, in my opinion and it helped.

I was totally surprised by the demise of young stars like Ray Ruiz, who has an incredible voice, good looks and charisma. Grupo Niche has been decimated by defections and their solo singers have not been as successful alone. Los Adolecentes, as good as they were, just vanished.

In the old days you had a strong field like Colon, La Selecta, Miranda, El Gran Combo, The Jewish boy Larry Harlow, Charlie and Eddie Palmieri, Joe Bataan, Lebron Brothers, Pacheco, Tito Puente, Celia Cruz, Richie Ray, Ray Barreto, Ray Olan, Cheo Feliciano and the formidable Fania All Stars combined, the greatest music talent on earth put together. If no one believes me, just think....some of these great stars were also among the best jazz musicians of their time. The Palmieri pianos sounded like they were coordinated by computers. Barreto could play with his hands, elbows, forearms, shoulders,knees, feet and even his head. Tito Puente's speed with the timbales was the equivalent of Ali's jab and shuffle. Colon's trombone alone was a one man's party. I remember dancing to a Colon solo for about three minutes.

The greatest merit the Fania All Stars deserve is that they implemented salsa in English and it sounded just great. Today's artists cannot duplicate this, except Marc Anthony with his fussion of guajira and pop. If you want to hear the best salsa in English album ever buy Lebron Brother's I Believe and listen to "I Can't Turn It Back On". You could swear you are listening to the beginnings of rap with a sweet romantic sound. LLCool J had to have listened to this song. I use to listen to it time and time again and never tired.

TW
 

jose?to

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golo...

I admit it, you know 'salsa'. I really like those people you mentioned. After I wrote about Col?n yesterday, I was out in the streets thinking, 'That Col?n kid was a true genius with that trombone.'

Most non-PRs never heard of La Corporaci?n Latina, but those young kids were just as good as La Selecta way back then. When I mention them to people, they tell me that I'm confused, that I probably mean La Dimensi?n Latina.

The Fania All Stars were gods. Pacheco and company ruled NYC.

Tony C., did you know that "Free Bird" is one of the all-time most requested songs in the south? When southern stations do their Memorial/Labor Day weekends Top 500 songs, "Free Bird" usually ranks in the top 5, along with the Led Zep tune we all know. Southern 'blues' is alive and kicking these days. And even if Stevie Ray V. is gone, his music still rocks me. Well, gotta go, "it's flooding down in Texas, all the telephone lines are down."

-Jose?to
 

Tony C

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Joseito,

Have you ever listened to the words to "Stairway?" I am still trying to figure it out. Even Plant said he didn't know.(He was probobly stonned when he wrote it!)

PLEASE, PLEASE Do not refer to SVR as a Southern rocker!!! Texas Rock, Blues Rock, Blues, Even Rock-a-Billy are all ok. But never, ever...Southern Rock!

I grew up listening to Salsa in the 60's and 70's. I can appreciate the talent behind it but I still lump it with Mernegue, Disco, Techno, Industrial, and the like. Just music to dance to. No real soul!

Tony C.
Gabba Gabba HEY!!!!
I was Punk before Punk was a fashion statement!!!!!!!!!
 

jose?to

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But, Tony, I specifically said 'southern blues' when I was referring to SRV, not rock, or Chicago blues, or Harlem blues. Man, how I would love to get in an argument there! This is Texas, and SRV still rules. He'll always rule.

-Jose?to
Eagles Farewell Tour coming up
 

Golo100

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Tony C

You are right. Salsa was made for dancing and that's why I liked it so much. But on the way to the dancing hall, I realized the music could also be listened to.

There is music to be danced and music to be listened to. People who just listened to music hated disco, yet disco was the best music to dance ever. The hustle in my opinion was the best dance, specially the New York City style danced in Clubs like Bonds, Studio 54, The Monastery and the Phoenix in Chicago.

I am glad you were punk before it was fashionable to be. I was industrial before Gothic-industrial was the only music the pop crowd and the top 40 never embraced. That makes us unique, chic and avant garde. Long live Skinny Puppy and Severed Heads!! Think about it....we were never even listed on Billboard or Spin.

TW
 

Tony C

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Back in the 70's I went to an all Boys Catholic(Marist not those commie Jesuits) school in Miami. You had 2 main cliques. The Redneck who listend to Southern rock and Country and the Cubans who listened to Disco.
Me an a few others hated both forms. We listened to Rock and Acid. Then Punk found me. I caught a lot of Sh*t from the other guys with my skinny tie and short hair but after awhile they tried to follow me. I gave up trying to explain that Punk is an attitude not a fashion. They hated the fact the girls loved the "Rebel Attitude" and that at the Dance I could Salsa and Disco with the best of them. they even tried t follow me a couple of times to find out where I hung out.
I have always been one to follow the arts that have an attitude. I love new trends but hate when it is co-opted by the masses and the media and then watered down.
It cracks me up when they refer to acts like Avril Lavigne and Blink 182 as punk. Not even close. Now the Mass Media has suddenly Discovered the Clash! How Lame!
Be nice and i will tell you my John Lydon(Johnny Rotten) Story
 

jose?to

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Tony C...

If you liked the Clash, how come you are clashing, politically speaking?

Sex Pistols...now we're talking. Sid said.

-Jose?to
 
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Tony C

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Re: Tony C...

jose?to said:
I you liked the Clash, how come you are clashing, politically speaking?

Sex Pistols...now we're talking. Sid said.

-Jose?to

I disagreed with most of their politics and still do. I enjoyed their attitude and music.
 

Golo100

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I didn't say this. Look who said it.

This is an excerpt from a statement given by one of DR's best merengue band leaders Jose Pe?a Suazo(La Banda Gorda) who generally creates his own songs and mostly uses original music and arrangements without obscenity:

Taken from El Caribe "Espectaculos" section today.

"Para Pe?a Suazo, la bachata, que este a?o protagoniz? ese premio, no ha corrido con la misma suerte que el merengue. Seg?n explic?, los int?rpretes de la m?sica del amargue no han abusado del g?nero y por ello el ritmo ha crecido en todos los escenarios.
El cantante asegur? que el merengue ha entrado en crisis debido a la poca creatividad de sus trabajadores, a lo mucho que se ha ridiculizado el g?nero y a la cabida que las estaciones radiales le han dado a los temas sin criterio. ?El merengue se ha relajado mucho, con letras sin calidad y vulgares. Aqu? vivimos quej?ndonos de que hay merengues malos, pero lo apoyamos. En el contenido de la mayor?a de las emisoras del pa?s hay merengues que si yo fuera el director de una emisora no los colocara. Y esos temas suenan y se pegan. Cuando t? le das cabida a un tema malo, le quitas espacio a uno que valga la pena. Algo que tambi?n ha hecho que el merengue pierda mercado internacional es la falta de creatividad. No hay creadores de merengue. Ahora se espera que un artista internacional grabe un tema para fusilarlo y llevarlo a merengue. Eso nos hace da?o. Una m?sica que su cincuenta por ciento sea nutrida de fusilamientos, cuando no est? la creatividad de por medio, tiene que ir bajando qui?rase o no?, dijo.

Like I said before, the merengue is dying a slow death. Nobody listens to this stuff anymore and radio stations are running away from it because it does not sell.

TW
 

jose?to

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I remember la Banda Gorda's first production; it was kick-ass, especially "Todas Son Celosas" y luego "Amigo de Que". After "El Negro Pega Con T?", the rest was lame. Pe?a Suazo's work with La Coco was revolutionary, I think. After initial success with LBG, he insisted on that "Suazo mambo", and was never the same.

-Jose?to
Eagles Farewell Tour, June 16th, Compaq Center, Houston, TX..BE THERE or else...