Prostitution study

Lambada

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Here is the real deal for your wisecrack material....go for it.

Adorers networking

This particular religious order is so well known internationally that I'm surprised anyone would doubt their ability to be able to offer an informed perspective on the subject of prostitution. They have 1300 sisters working in 22 countries (throughout Latin America plus Japan, Cambodia and Vietnam). They work directly with trafficked women, prostitutes and those dying of AIDS - an article here from 1997 in the Miami Herald about their work in the DR
A Most Merciful Mission Nuns Help Dominican Prostitutes Battle AIDS

These nuns frequently have to keep a lowish profile because of all the threats they get from pimps, traffickers etc and they sometimes have to move their homes fairly quickly in order to stay safe
Roman Catholic Vocations: "Nuns Help Prostitutes Heal, Give Them Hope"

More about the Magdalene Centre, Santo Domingo here (in English)
Programs, services and activities by Vida Humana International (VHI)

They would appear to have the advantage of an international perspective, a knowledge base built on years of experience and perhaps most important of all, the ability to see the women as people rather than as objects.
 
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A.Hidalgo

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This particular religious order is so well known internationally that I'm surprised anyone would doubt their ability to be able to offer an informed perspective on the subject of prostitution. They have 1300 sisters working in 22 countries (throughout Latin America plus Japan, Cambodia and Vietnam). They work directly with trafficked women, prostitutes and those dying of AIDS - an article here from 1997 in the Miami Herald about their work in the DR
A Most Merciful Mission Nuns Help Dominican Prostitutes Battle AIDS

These nuns frequently have to keep a lowish profile because of all the threats they get from pimps, traffickers etc and they sometimes have to move their homes fairly quickly in order to stay safe
Roman Catholic Vocations: "Nuns Help Prostitutes Heal, Give Them Hope"

More about the Magdalene Centre, Santo Domingo here (in English)
Programs, services and activities by Vida Humana International (VHI)

They would appear to have the advantage of an international perspective, a knowledge base built on years of experience and perhaps most important of all, the ability to see the women as people rather than as objects.

Good links.....btw I could be wrong, but I have the feeling that donations will not be coming from this bunch....potential merchandise may be compromised.:ermm:;)
 

curiosita

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I am very surprised with the tone of many of the posts here. Now I understand why the DR is plagued by sex tourism. I am not endorsing this study, but it raises publicly a concern about prostitution (beyond its effects on tourism) that I think is far too understated in the DR.

The comments I have read lead me to post the following thoughts:

(1) On why people don?t stop working, once they get other opportunities (i.e. job or foreign benefactor):

Has anyone stopped to think about the uncertainty of money earned through the sex trade? Now combine that uncertainty with the uncertainty of money earned in other trades? Now take a even a cursory look at the workforce in the DR, which includes (A) a disproportionate numbered of unskilled workers to unskilled jobs and (B) a significant social stigma connected with certain unskilled work (namely that performed by Haitians)?a stigma that is not connected with being a sanky panky as this ?job? is easily masked as having a ?novio/a extranjero/a?

Maybe these factors explain why your sanky panky picks up his Western Union remittance, while simultaneously working on another gringa. In my admittedly limited (short-term) experience working with sex workers (in which category I include garden variety prostitutes and the DR specific ?sanky panky?) of both sexes in Las Terrenas de Samana, I found an equal number of individuals who claimed to have earned their living as they did because of lack of other opportunities as those who claimed to find the job easy and most lucrative. But my conversations with all of them illustrated that until the prostitute/sanky panky has a ring on his/her finger, ?papeles en mano,? and a ticket to [fill in the blank country] there is no certainty that the foreign remittances will continue. No one who truly follows the Dominican sex worker phenomenon has not heard at least some variation on the story of the gringo husband who disappears back to the US/Europe never to be heard of again. (She got the ring but not the papers.)

One sex worker (the most frank and open) I befriended eventually told me that among the first tips he was given was to have as many gringas as possible because it increased his chances of hitting the jackpot. He later explained that, since every sanky panky has ?sell by date,? he could not afford to put all his eggs in one basket. So even when he had one girlfriend sending him money, he was always looking for another.

(2) On relapse after leaving:

From the 35+ sex workers I informally interviewed as a part of a different project, I was led to and met about 10 former sex workers living abroad and in the DR, who had hit the ?Pretty Woman? jackpot and had left the game permanently. By the same account, I met probably an equal number who had blown their ?Pretty Woman? chance due to substance abuse problems developed while in the sex trade. One example is the a male who sent his foreign remittances home, but had acquired a serious cocaine habit to deal with a particularly unpleasant part of the job--having sex with men despite being heterosexual. To support his habit he began prostituting himself on the side, and was caught when his foreign boyfriend began checking up on him in the local expat community.

I also met several prostitutes who had returned to prostitution after being fired from other work or upon being unable to make ends meet on the salary being paid to them. Though the sex workers I talked to claimed the firing was more severe of a problem for Haitians than for Dominicans.

In any event these are all equally plausible explanations for why--as has been so meanly stated here-- "you can take the wh### out of the barrio, but you can't take the barrio out of the wh###." Indeed, they sound more plausible than "I'm too lazy to do any real work" (Otherwise, 90% of the world's population would be sex workers, and from what I hear--at least emotionally but maybe physically too--sex for $$ is not all that easy.)

(3) On sex workers as predators:

What struck me most about many of the comments was the dismissals of all sex workers as ?whores? who get what they are asking for AND are actually the perpetrators of their abuse/cause of their own problems. I find that fishy.

Personally, I?m not ready to pass judgment on either group (though sex tourists have made my life considerably more difficult as a non-Dominican attempting to integrate into Dominican?rather than expat?communities). But I find it appalling that so many of the comments here have not even queried the responsibilities of the ?clients,? many of whom are tourist- and expat- men/women (again, based on my limited experience in Las Terrenas) engaging in behavior that is not only illegal in their home countries but patently morally unacceptable (e.g. sex with minors, physical violence) rather than just morally ambiguous (e.g. sex in exchange for money). What role do those individuals play in the decision-making process of the sex worker? There would be no sex trade without johns/janes, right? (It takes (at least) two to exchange sex for money.)

(4) As for the claim that ?It would be intellectually irresponsible NOT to question a so-called 'scientific' study whose validity can be contradicted with outright personal experience, especially if that experience can be verified with actual proof.?

Have you ever conducted a scientific study? In particular, have you ever conducted a ?qualitative? (vs. quantitative) scientific study. Again, I am not endorsing this study, but you cannot contradict the validity of a study because you (or anyone) has had personal experiences (even those verifiable by actual proof) that do not support the findings. Does the study make proclamations about ALL prostitutes in the Dominican Republic. Just as I have had to limit my experience to about 35 sex workers in Las Terrenas, the study limits its experience to 100 prostitutes in a few particular areas. From that, it makes a claim as to a trend seen in those areas.

Also, since the study has made no differentiation among type of prostitute (i.e. it does not appear to indicate whether they targeted prostitutes serving ?high class?, ?foreign?, ?lower class,? etc. clientele or whether that was not a control factor of the study), you cannot determine whether your prostitutes?the ones from your verifiable personal experience?were similarly situated to those in the study. Given the point of the study, I cannot say that I think this is a failing of the study, though it does make it hard for Brezin convincingly to criticize the study in the way he?d like.

Most important, as my comments above should make blaringly obvious one?s personal determinations about an individual?s options really have no bearing on the validity of a scientific study. I.e. just because YOU have concluded that a prostitute ?could? leave the game when he/she gets a ?Western Union gringo/a? does not mean that the prostitute in question has evaluated the situation in the same fashion. Nor does it mean he/she should calculate the risks as you have. I?m hardly saying that Brezin (or AZB, though brash and abrasive and seemingly a jerk) is WRONG, my 35+ verifiable experiences are insufficient for me to begin drawing scientifically defensible conclusions. However, it is equally incorrect to say the study is wrong because it did not challenge the meaning of ?could? (or more accurately ?querer abandonar el comercio sexual,? which is ostensibly the question asked in the study.)

I have toyed with expanding and formalizing my own study on Dominican sex workers and publishing my findings in an academic periodical, but this thread confirms my fears that my time would be wasted. People on DR1 are all up in a roar when the smallest thing happens to a foreigner (though, I grant that the hullabaloo is usually more even-sided, which is why I normally feel no need to post), but post a study claiming that 68% of Dominican (and maybe some Haitian) prostitutes are abused and nobody gives a crap. A study indicating the 94% would rather do something else (stats, which by the way are comparable to US/European numbers) and people call it a lie. In fact I think the point of the OP was to cast doubt on the study. That is very sad.
 
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AZB

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Look Mr scientific study, you only experienced las terrenas, home of the ugliest hookers in DR. I have been coming to this country since 1986 as a tourist to resort areas and have been living here full time from 1998. I know dominicans and including your scientific hooker subjects, down to bone. So please take your 35 subjects and publish it in some american journal. We have not lost our hair by sitting under las terrenas bright sun. It all came from experience and lessons learned in by living here 24/7 for many years. I am sure you are convinced and swear by your findings but when you live here for more than 10 yrs with these people, you will begin to see a different picture. I used to feel sorry for them too in the begining. I used to ask all the nice looking girls, why do you have to do this? You don't belong here? blah blah. all waste of time. maybe less than 1% has changed her life once she has found a good man to settle down with, the rest just continue to live the lazy life with the man and when he kicks her out, she goes back to streets.
I am sorry, but your finding have not convinced me. You need to learn to learn more.
have a good day.
AZB
 
Look Mr scientific study, you only experienced las terrenas, home of the ugliest hookers in DR. I have been coming to this country since 1986 as a tourist to resort areas and have been living here full time from 1998. I know dominicans and including your scientific hooker subjects, down to bone. So please take your 35 subjects and publish it in some american journal. We have not lost our hair by sitting under las terrenas bright sun. It all came from experience and lessons learned in by living here 24/7 for many years. I am sure you are convinced and swear by your findings but when you live here for more than 10 yrs with these people, you will begin to see a different picture. I used to feel sorry for them too in the begining. I used to ask all the nice looking girls, why do you have to do this? You don't belong here? blah blah. all waste of time. maybe less than 1% has changed her life once she has found a good man to settle down with, the rest just continue to live the lazy life with the man and when he kicks her out, she goes back to streets.
I am sorry, but your finding have not convinced me. You need to learn to learn more.
have a good day.
AZB

Most of these hookers or former hookers who are now married to a foreigner will always do some part time hooker work albeit a little more low key than before they had a sugar daddy. You ask why? Because they like $$$$$ and some of them do it because they get paid and enjoy sex as much as we men do. Nothing like loving your work.:) :) To many of these women having sex is like going to the bathroom, its natural and should be done daily.
 
Just one question. Was this a hands on study??

Im going to study this matter a little more in depth in the up coming year,and yes it will be a hands on scientific research. I would like to enlist the support of my fellow DR1'ers in this project. I will need lots of money to conduct this research thoroughly,so please Dame algo and I will let you know upfront I take no pleasure in this research, I only do it for the betterment of mankind.
 
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well to reply to Curiosita's post......( which was very hard to follow)

the study in question was on prostitutes and the effects of thier lives ( seemingly from their trade) but we know across the board.

the study was not directed at nor includes Sanky panky men.

which seldom have cash in hand after an encounter, it is a big play with sanky men..nothing like prostitution..more like fraud...

even if some of their clients ready accept the payment for the acts they get.

no matter how close they come to each other.

now I am sure that the study did not include women who act like sankiettes......who PRETEND to not be prostitutes and willing scam as many men they can through feigned romance.

apples and oranges ....

as loosely as i accept this "study" I would warn against over analyzing it ha ha ha ha

bad bad bob
 

DominicanBilly

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Look Mr scientific study, you only experienced las terrenas, home of the ugliest hookers in DR. I have been coming to this country since 1986 as a tourist to resort areas and have been living here full time from 1998. I know dominicans and including your scientific hooker subjects, down to bone. So please take your 35 subjects and publish it in some american journal. We have not lost our hair by sitting under las terrenas bright sun. It all came from experience and lessons learned in by living here 24/7 for many years. I am sure you are convinced and swear by your findings but when you live here for more than 10 yrs with these people, you will begin to see a different picture. I used to feel sorry for them too in the begining. I used to ask all the nice looking girls, why do you have to do this? You don't belong here? blah blah. all waste of time. Maybe less than 1% has changed her life once she has found a good man to settle down with, the rest just continue to live the lazy life with the man and when he kicks her out, she goes back to streets.
I am sorry, but your finding have not convinced me. You need to learn to learn more.
have a good day.
AZB

AZB I agree with you whole heartily.
I too used to feel sorry for them too in the beginning. I used to ask all the nice looking girls, why do you have to do this? You don't belong here? blah blah. all waste of time.
Then I opened a hotel and realized that a "working girl" can make in one night what I was paying my employees for a weeks work (44 hours). Why work 44 hours a week when you can sit around and gossip with the other chicas and all you have to do is get lucky once a week.

Maybe less than 1% has changed her life once she has found a good man to settle down with, the rest just continue to live the lazy life with the man and when he kicks her out, she goes back to streets. In most cases they have nothing in common with the "good man" and are bored out of their minds after living the life of a "working girl". And they will still have a Dominican boyfriend on the side because they have more in common with him.

I don't look down on their lifestyle because with no support from absentee fathers, the high unemployment, no education or welfare they have to find a way to earn some money to send back home to feed and keep their children. It's an easy choice when they are young and attractive.

As far as the Las Terrenas or any other tourist area goes it is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to "working girls". When you travel around this country and count the number of cabanas outside of the tourist areas you can tell the Dominican men use their services more than any of the tourist vacationers.

Just my point of view after retiring and living here since 1992.
 

curiosita

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Interesting that the immediate assumption is that I am being sympathetic to any side, which I am emphatically not. My point was that the posts here were resoundingly damning of one side of the equation without examining AT ALL the other side. In order to truly analyze and, then, critique another’s findings one must look at both sides. I never claimed that anyone was right or wrong. Just that your methods of analysis and persuasion were flawed.

Moreover, I openly admitted that my study (in the DR) was limited and carried out in connection with a different project (but I have worked with sex workers in Latin America and Europe for about 10 years; I agree this is different than being a client, an experience many of you seem to have "enjoyed(?)")—which is why I would have to formalize and expand my work before considering publication. However, what I learned piqued my interest, particularly because it contrasted with the pictures painted by the majority of my expat acquaintances in the DR. From my experience, I am left with the questions I raised, not the virulent opinions of posters like AZB. It may be that the DR evidences some strange phenomenon in which the majority of sex workers are evil, sex-crazed manipulators preying on foreigners (as AZB paints them), or they may be tragic victims of circumstance (which is one reading of the study). Personally, I imagine things aren’t so black and white, and I think the grey zone deserves a little attention.

[As an aside, I discussed the sanky panky phenom (and male prostitution) NOT because I misunderstood the study to include them but because my own work included both groups. Apologies if that was unclear.]
 

Lambada

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If you do publish, curiosita, would you be kind enough to let us know, please? In my working life when I was a probation officer in London, UK in the 1960's, many of my clients were prostitutes (not that most of them needed a probation officer, I hasten to add, just that the magistrate was obliged to find some Court sentence for the offence as it was in that country, & we were the easy way out! :cheeky:) so I would be interested in reading your research.

I assume you're familiar with the work of researchers like Cohen (2006), Kerrigan (2006), Haddock (2007) & Padilla (2007)? And don't despair, some of us who post on DR1 are familiar with objective research ;).
 

Truco33

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I would like to thank AZB for his posts on this thread.

I just recently came back from Puerto Plata, 2nd time being there in about a month's time, and I experienced what AZB described.

I was suckered in by a beautiful face and body and sob story. When I stop and think about everything that happened when I was down there, I realize that her mom and her friends were in on it or at least knew that the "tourist" was being taken advantage of and got in on the action.

The sad part is that I actually started having feelings for her. I am just grateful that I came across this forum before I sent any more money over there and developed any more feelings for her.

Again, I really want to thank whoever started this forum and thread for shedding light on this horrible scam.
 

leromero

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Just my dos centavos.... but since when does asking questions to a "select" focus group trump years of experience living within the community. Visual observations of the group in question, no matter the subject, will give a better representation about the behavior of that subject. Unless you have actually spent years within the community you will not understand that what they say and what they actually do are not the same. Perhaps the DR is totally alone in this respect?
 
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Berzin

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Years of experience are not needed to see the patterns because they are so predictable, but it certainly does help witnessing the other side of the coin, which seems to be missing from this so-called "scientific" study.

Posters like DominicanBilly and AZB live there, and others who visit also know and have seen the same patterns develop from dating these type of women.

Unless the nuns were also interviewing whoremongers, the casual customer, men who date these women and attempt serious long-term relationships with them, to me their study is one-sided and incomplete and the results self-serving.

I'll bet you anything the only hookers these nuns help are the ones who cannot get customers anymore. These women HAVE no choice but to leave the industry because no one wants them anymore.

I would like to see the interview results if the subjects questioned were young, beautiful women who have apartments on the Malecon and are driving jeepetas, all paid for by their customers.:ermm::ermm::ermm:
 
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AZB

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Just my dos centavos.... but since when does asking questions to a "select" focus group trump years of experience living within the community. Visual observations of the group in question, no matter the subject, will give a better representation about the behavior of that subject. Unless you have actually spent years within the community you will not understand that what they say and what they actually do are not the same. Perhaps the DR is totally alone in this respect?

Its a lot simpler than that so don't complicate it. These girls are like an open book. Once you see a few in action, you begin to see a pattern. In general, dominicans are almost like clones of each other. They think alike, they talk alike and they act alike. After a while, they just become too predictable. When I am talking to general public, I know exactly what they are thinking and I know exactly what will come out of their mouths the next moment and how they would react if I say something in a certain manner and what will be the next comment coming out of their mouths. Its sort of a game, i am like a few steps ahead of them so I can control the theme and direction of the conversation according to my humor. Its funny how easy it is to navigate a conversation of dominicans because you know exactly what they are thinking. Now the hooker community is even easier to handle and understand.
AZB
 

curiosita

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Leromero, to some extent, you are correct. That is why a good sociological study includes extensive background research (getting the academic view of the community) and time spent building relationships in the community both with your subject group and others (getting a real view). This permits a better evaluation of the subjects' responses. The information available on the site given by the OP does not make it possible to determine the extent to which this sort of prep was done by the actual "field researchers," but the ostensible sponsor, Centro Montalvo, is Dominican (though I think las Adoratrices are international).

Even if they did not prep as well as they should, the study included fairly simple subjective factors (e.g. "would you leave the sex industry, if you could?"). Posters on this site are assuming that all of these people are liars, namely they prefer prostitution to any other work but are saying they want to leave the industry. Now, maybe a bunch of intimdating nuns went out gathering the info (I don't know?), or maybe the people doing the surveys behaved in ways that would lead the prostitutes to certain answers (who knows?). But, a even a crap study tries to minimize motivations for lying. Why do we assume--first thing--that the prostitutes are lying?

In any event, there are many other plausible reasons for the seemingly incongruent/dishonest decisions of prostitutes. Many of these explanations (see my first post) are consistent with ones heard from sex workers around the world, and those that are not, fit well the sui generis aspects of the DR (e.g. the pariah of "Haitian work").

Each of us is free to disagree with the prostitute's decision, but why call her (or him) a liar just because what she "actually does" is not what you would? Why impose on the prostitute your own vision of the world and call her a liar when she behaves inconsistently with your vision? I mean, we don't call fat people liars when they say they are still hungry after eating an entire extra-large pizza. I can only two or three slices and I'm stuffed, but I give the fat guy the benefit of the doubt and I assume that his evaluation of hunger is different than mine. Given that he is fat, I might also conclude that his evaluation is off, but I don't call him a liar.

[Note: I am not saying the prostitution, as a profession, does not often require lying. Nor am I saying that Domincan prostitutes (and sankies) are not lying to their "clients." In those circumstances the lies are part and parcel... but, if a study has been well-executed, there is no reason to believe the prostitutes would uniformly lie.]
 

cobraboy

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Just my dos centavos.... but since when does asking questions to a "select" focus group trump years of experience living within the community. Visual observations of the group in question, no matter the subject, will give a better representation about the behavior of that subject. Unless you have actually spent years within the community you will not understand that what they say and what they actually do are not the same. Perhaps the DR is totally alone in this respect?
Because, contrary to what a researcher says, they usually start off with an unwritten prejudgement. They just want to prove it, and wrap it in "objectivity".
 
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So there really isn't any need for studies at all, since they are all subjective, are conducted shoddily, and have pre-existing agendas.

That makes sense. We can all rest comfortably, knowing that our own personal opinions are always objective, dependable, and correct.

Well, all right! Life just got a whole lot easier.