Say goodbye to tinted windows in DR.

[Argo]

Good job Sweet

Damn, gringo you type a lot faster than me. were you a secretary in a former life? You may be right about laughing at this later, and there are aspects of the relaxed attitudes in the DR I like. I have already become aware of the "gringo price structure" as well, and hopefully will be prepared to deal with it.

I'm hoping that I will retain my beliefs in the rule of law on moral grounds, but I KNOW that from a practical standpoint, I'm not going to exert energy, funds, and possibly "political capitol" to avoid laws that I can easily comply with.

I had to laugh about your anecdote about waiting at the red light. Been there, done that.

It is all about morality and respect. IF you feel you are above the law, we don't need to comment. If you feel you don't need to respect the law, you are a criminal, what more can be said

I never have said I agree with the way the laws are implemented or selectively enforced in the DR, my comment was about those who feel thye are above the laws of an emerging country and still complain about a country that is lawless

Which way do you want it? Obviously you want the laws to apply to only "others" and you (No one in particular, you all know who I mean) should be exempt to enjoy yourself, but the "lower class" should be subject to the laws so that the country can become civilized

What a gross example of double standards

A>

 

[Argo]

I didn't claim they have SS storming houses in the middle of the night. But never the less it is a police state. There are degrees with every thing.

People choose to live under that, that is their decission. I chose to leave about 7 years ago.

I know they should have locked me up for those 2 or 3 speeding tickets I had.

When nearly everyone on the highways in the US are driving over the speed limit what does that say about the law?

If you can't see speed enforcement for what it is then I don't know what to tell you. It is just another tax imposed on the people. The state, the cops, the insurance companies, radar/lidar manufacturers and the radar/lidar dector manufacturers are all cleaning up, at the peoples expense.

Would you say these methods of supposed "money making" by Law Enforcement has made the driving in the US safer than the DR? From posts I have read on DR1, driving in the DR is quite haphazard, because of that old word "Accountability" and those that shun it

 

[Argo]

When you are ticketed in the U.S. you pay at least $150 for the ticket, your insurance will go up double the price of the ticket,and you will be treated like a terrorist by the officer.

I will deal with Amet or any D.R. Policia any day compared to the above. At least they shake your hand and ask how you are doing. Try getting a cop in the States to do that.

Do you regularly flaunt the traffic laws in the US? I doubt it, you would no longer be driving as you would be a hazard t the civilized respectful people, nit maiming and killing others as it appears to be in some countries where laws are only for the poor

 

[Argo]

If you have an issue with my position, feel free to contact our advertisers.

You're a visitor that plans to live here. Living here is a very different ball game to visiting here. Don't worry, you'll find that out.

Everybody's opinions are valid, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with or endorse them.

What was your question?

I think her question is why do you feel you are moraly superior to those that can not pay a bribe for committing criminal acts?

 

[gringo in dr]

It is all about morality and respect. IF you feel you are above the law, we don't need to comment. If you feel you don't need to respect the law, you are a criminal, what more can be said

I never have said I agree with the way the laws are implemented or selectively enforced in the DR, my comment was about those who feel thye are above the laws of an emerging country and still complain about a country that is lawless

Which way do you want it? Obviously you want the laws to apply to only "others" and you (No one in particular, you all know who I mean) should be exempt to enjoy yourself, but the "lower class" should be subject to the laws so that the country can become civilized

What a gross example of double standards

A>

We are not above the locals. We are just trying to be equal or close to equal with them.

The laws do not apply to anyone down here.

Being an ex pat we normally get the short end of the stick here. That goes with laws, prices, rents, the list could go on for pages.

The dr is not a police state. The USA is a police state.

Locking down the peoples freedoms does not make a country better. If you try to buck the system here you will just end up frustrated and/or broke. This is not the US. The locals do not want it turned into the US. The expats are here because this is not the US. Get used to the local customs and when in rome......

 

[gringo in dr]

Would you say these methods of supposed "money making" by Law Enforcement has made the driving in the US safer than the DR? From posts I have read on DR1, driving in the DR is quite haphazard, because of that old word "Accountability" and those that shun it

I've been here, in Santiago for nearly 2 years now, and have never witnessed ONE accident. I can't say a week went by in the states that I didn't see an accident.

 

[gringo in dr]

Do you regularly flaunt the traffic laws in the US? I doubt it, you would no longer be driving as you would be a hazard t the civilized respectful people, nit maiming and killing others as it appears to be in some countries where laws are only for the poor

No, I choose not to live in the police state.

 

[Robert]

Chiri,
I would like to support you in your efforts to keep within the law here. I do, too. I believe if we are guests in a country it behooves us to uphold their laws, regardless of our personal opinions about those laws. To 'flaunt the system' because we 'can' is an attitude stemming from either arrogance, ignorance or colonial/imperialistic notions of being better than the next guy. We should be encouraging good, sensible laws & tolerating (& adhering to) those we believe less sensible.
And if this country was truly a 'police state' would not the arrogant use of tinted windows, no seat belts etc in contravention of the law, mean that offending foreigners were deported...........or 'disappeared'?
In some cases, of course, that might indeed be a blessing.

I watched Mary Poppins as well.... I also live and work in the real world, not a utopia.

Try running a business here or even worse, try getting things done on a "street level" that relate to that business.
Talk to those foreigners that employ in excess of 50 people and see what they have to say about being 100% legal.
Talk to those foreigners that import or export products and ask them how many hands that have had to grease over the years.

Sometimes it's just not possible to do things legally here.
If anyone tells you otherwise, regardless of who they are, they are full of BS.

Getting back to the traffic cops.

When ALL the cops are willing to stick to the law, then I'm happy to abide by the law. Until then, I'm with the other 99% of the people that live in the DR. That are more than happy to pay a few pesos to make things go away.

Unless a cop is willing to risk his life and stand in front of me, then I just don't stop.

Two cops that risked their lives.

Case 1:
Officer: You almost killed me!
Me: Sorry, you tried to stop me for no reason. What did I do?
Officer: We are going to the police station.
Me: Why?
Officer: Let's go, I'll follow you.
Me: Do you need money for some gas in your scooter?
Officer: "nose twitch"
Me: Take RD$200, go buy some beer as well. I'll wait for you to come back.
Officer: "laughed and got on his scooter and left".

Case 2 (I was the passenger):
Friend: But the traffic lights are not even working.
Officer: I stand here every day and they are red at this time.
Friend: Here is RD$50, make them change green
Officer: "blank expression"
Friend: Here's RD$100
Officer: Ok, I'll let you off this time as the lights are not working.
Friend: Thanks.

 

[Robert]

I think her question is why do you feel you are moraly superior to those that can not pay a bribe for committing criminal acts?

Of course not! I'm not superior to anyone.
It's not my problem other people cannot afford to pay.

But when the person upholding the law asks me to pay a bribe, I'm more than happy to abide by their request. As I know the other route is a whole lot of pain and a complete waste of my time.

Larry said it best.

God gave some people the serenity to accept the things they cannot change, the courage to change those they can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Then there are others who insist on going through life butting their heads into brick walls and wondering why they cannot break through them...while others simply climb over the wall or walk around it.

Next...

 

[Argo]

We are not above the locals. We are just trying to be equal or close to equal with them.

The laws do not apply to anyone down here.

Being an ex pat we normally get the short end of the stick here. That goes with laws, prices, rents, the list could go on for pages.

The dr is not a police state. The USA is a police state.

Locking down the peoples freedoms does not make a country better. If you try to buck the system here you will just end up frustrated and/or broke. This is not the US. The locals do not want it turned into the US. The expats are here because this is not the US. Get used to the local customs and when in rome......

When in Rome, try breaking the traffic laws and seeing what the Carabiniere have to say to you.

A law is passed with the intent of protecting the general welfare of the poulance, when you break it you become a criminal pure and simple. If you feel wrongly accused, fightthe charge, don't call your buddy Colonel Klink for a situation when you are in the wrong, it only goes to continue the lack of a respected government

But of course you are not one that would do such a thing, you only ask Colonel Sanders for help when you are wrongly accused :-(

When there are no laws, chaos prevails and that pretty much is proven by traffic in the DR

 

[Argo]

I've been here, in Santiago for nearly 2 years now, and have never witnessed ONE accident. I can't say a week went by in the states that I didn't see an accident.

I have visited the DR 9-10 times and observed at least 20 accidents or their immediate aftermath

 

[Argo]

No, I choose not to live in the police state.

I guess you have no idea of what the meaning of a "police State is" The USA is a nation of laws, supposedly equla to all, but we know this to be also untrue, but much more fair then what you support

Did the rich or important people in Communist Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, Facist Italy etc ever get traffic tickets? Of course not, when the laws are selective you have the exact problem you all complain about in yoru corrupt Government Corruption, be it Banniter or the "fixing" of a speeding ticket is one and the same, corruption

I believe it is time for me to give up on this issue, it is impossible to explain morality to an immoral person

 

[Chirimoya]

Just a little nitpick here: when people are saying "flaunt" they mean "flout".

End of English lesson. :classic:

When it comes to it, observing traffic laws is about common sense, self preservation, and last but not least, courtesy.

Nothing will make me drink more than a couple of drinks before taking the wheel, drive without a seatbelt, buy a car with darkened windows, or talk on the phone while driving.

The illegal left turn I made the other day, which got me into trouble with an AMET, was something I would have never done intentionally, unless I was completely stupid and/or suicidal.

The threat of the ticket is the least of it. I would simply not be able to live with myself if my actions resulted in an accident.

 

[Argo]

Of course not! I'm not superior to anyone.
It's not my problem other people cannot afford to pay.

But when the person upholding the law asks me to pay a bribe, I'm more than happy to abide by their request. As I know the other route is a whole lot of pain and a complete waste of my time.

Larry said it best.


Next...

I believe it is time for me to give up on this issue, it is impossible to explain morality to an immoral person

BTW, when do those points come off my name so I can get nasty (the level of nasty the unclean ones are alllowed) again

 

[Argo]

Just a little nitpick here: when people are saying "flaunt" they mean "flout".

End of English lesson. :classic:

When it comes to it, observing traffic laws is about common sense, self preservation, and last but not least, courtesy.

Nothing will make me drink more than a couple of drinks before taking the wheel, drive without a seatbelt, buy a car with darkened windows, or talk on the phone while driving.

The illegal left turn I made the other day, which got me into trouble with an AMET, was something I would have never done intentionally, unless I was completely stupid and/or suicidal.

The threat of the parking ticket is the least of it. I would simply not be able to live with myself if my actions resulted in an accident.

Chiri

It all boils down to morality and respect, something certain people can not be taught, they somehow feel that laws are for "other people"

 

[Chirimoya]

Clarification

The 'police state' complaint that one hears from people (left and right) in the US and other countries is pathetic. A police state is when someone comes for you in the night and beats you to death and your family is told nothing for years and years. A police state is where the forces of 'law and order' can shoot an innocent bystander dead and never be accountable. A police state is where the small fish have no hope of justice and those who have power and influence can override it.

Ok, that is a quote from an earlier post I made in this thread. gringo in dr and others who have alluded to the US and other countries being a 'police state' please read again. I make no comment about the situation in the US. I am aware that there are people on the left and the right that have issues with what they deem to be assaults on civil liberties. I know this is also the case in the UK.

However, there is no way you can compare this to the reality of the DR, where all three of those situations I describe in the sentences bolded above, are more than a distant memory and in many cases a current reality. If it is a police state that you wish to avoid living in, I recommend you look elsewhere than the DR.

I am not banging my head against a wall. I have seen positive changes here and in other countries I know well. My approach contributes to these changes. Those who hold the opposing views are the ones who slow the process down.

 

[Argo]

Larry's wall

It seems I once read Larry was once a Policeman, so I'm not sure how he meant this

God gave some people the serenity to accept the things they cannot change, the courage to change those they can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Then there are others who insist on going through life butting their heads into brick walls and wondering why they cannot break through them...while others simply climb over the wall or walk around it.

But I am sure that wall was built only for those who could not afford to pay their way around it or have a powerful friend remove it

 

[Robert]

I believe it is time for me to give up on this issue, it is impossible to explain morality to an immoral person

Yawn!

Next...

 

[Lambada]

It seems I once read Larry was once a Policeman, so I'm not sure how he meant this

God gave some people the serenity to accept the things they cannot change, the courage to change those they can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Then there are others who insist on going through life butting their heads into brick walls and wondering why they cannot break through them...while others simply climb over the wall or walk around it.

But I am sure that wall was built only for those who could not afford to pay their way around it or have a powerful friend remove it

Isn't your bolded quote of Larry the Alcoholics Anonymous prayer?

 

[miguel]

True, but....!

Chiri

It all boils down to morality and respect, something certain people can not be taught, they somehow feel that laws are for "other people"

You are right. But some people think that if they get their ways, they are feared or respected. They feel that if they can get away with "things" they are in power.

My friend tells me that as long as he "knows someone" he WILL talk on his cell and WILL NOT do anything about his tainted window. His mentality is that he is superior than any law or cop because he "knows someone". That is the mentality of many and it will be always because it's the norm in the DR that one can do whatever they one if you have someone to take care of your problem (cash or a friend).

As long as there are corrupted cops, they will always be a way to deal with them. Remember, a cop is a cop, whether it's here in the US and in the DR. The bottom line is that some (note that I wrote SOME) can be bribed. It seems that some are forgetting that if you have money or know someone in the DR, you can basically do anything you want.

The law is the law and some will laugh at it and some will obey it. Some will get away with breaking it and some will not. The end result is that is up to the individual to respect it or not. I, for one, will, at least, not be so obvious when breaking the law. That is all I can do. I will not lie and say that I will not talk on the phone while I am driving, but the tinted windows will come off and there will be no more drinking while driving. I will not give them an excuse to stop me. That I can get away with almost anything over there, yes, but I just do not want to keep on slapping the dominican people. I say slap because there are some dominicans that DO obey the law.

They are 2 types of laws in the DR; 1 is for those with money and connections and the other is for those that can not afford to bride their ways out of trouble. This is a way of live over there. WILL NEVER CHANGE!.