So where does it all go???????

[ju10prd]

so give us a timeline as to when the demographic changed. tell us when a more upscale tourist started coming here. approximations are ok.

You are very knowledgeable about the DR so perhaps you should know better.

But better still....let us seek the opinion of 'East Coasters' as to whether the total packages cost US500 a week or more and when it went up market.

After all the forum is here to benefit every opinion and knowledge base and perhaps we can share the advances made in DR tourism to all.

 

[bob saunders]

“A la fecha 272,963 personas trabajan directamente en la industria tur?stica y si hacemos el c?lculo de que cada empleo directo genera tres indirectos los n?meros son extraordinarios”, destac?.

Unfortunately not everybody took time to read the link in the OP and blathered on about personal agendas.

If ten per cent of the total population of DR gets work out of the tourist industry directly or indirectly (in other words maybe 25% plus of the workforce), that must be good.....end of story. Especially since the tourist numbers are 5.4m for 2014, likely to well exceed that in 2015 and meet the target of 10 million set for 2022.

Construction boom....yes big time.

There are almost always spin-off jobs like laundry services and other suppliers, be it local produce, transportation, local tours, ..etc for every resort built, during construction and after the resort is open. Academic qualifications not backed up by actual work and belief that only certain economic systems work regardless of the proof for other theories.

 

[the gorgon]

You are very knowledgeable about the DR so perhaps you should know better.

But better still....let us seek the opinion of 'East Coasters' as to whether the total packages cost US500 a week or more and when it went up market.

After all the forum is here to benefit every opinion and knowledge base and perhaps we can share the advances made in DR tourism to all.

you have not answered my question.

i am fully aware of the fact that DR tourism is a regional powerhouse. i remember when nobody knew where the DR was on a map of the world. i remember when more Dominicans had gone abroad than visitors had come to the DR. some of the other islands started in the business long before the DR, and the DR has caught up admirably. mistakes have been made, like Playa Dorada, but that was caused by a mad rush to catch up using the flawed stratefy of putting as many heads in beds as possible. that gives exposure to bad outcomes, and the DR suffered from the fact that the internet is ruthless when it comes to broadcasting bad news. so, when PD started to hit the skids, everyone knew in very short order, and people stopped going. the whole travel agent paradigm that is used in the AI model also militates against even the simplest of errors and untoward happenings. all in all, the DR has done very well with what it has.

none of that means i am going to ignore silly figures.

 

[chic]

I can only speak for myself....I am nearing the end of my 16 day trip...I return to new York on Thursday....I paid $500 approx. for flight....I paid $570 for an apt .....I have a car hired and I think the price is $1700 with insurance...and I have almost spent $3000 while I have been here...gas cost about $350.....so I don't think the idea of $3000 a tourist is a blatant lie

thats about right hope you had a good time.. did you need the car??? you must have had a real good time spending almost 200us a day.. you should tell us more......fall in lust/i mean lov??? altold thats 300$us aday ....i always try to keep it under a buck aday,,,,cheap haircut included...:rambo::rambo::rambo::rambo::rambo::rambo::rambo:

 

[irishpaddy]

I had a friend make an inquiry of me the other day....herself and her husband were looking to go on their vacation....looked at lanzarote ....and found that it was cheaper to go to Dominican republic ....they will be travelling from Ireland...at least if this starts happening the colmadoes and the bars will benefit

 

[zoomzx11]

Cmon Frank, you dont really believe that bs. The rich get richer and the poor have children.

 

[rubio_higuey]

It says no where that it is from one economy to another ..it is your assumption. and it is only your assumption that they are talking about money going to the government when you talk about leakages . No I think you are totally wrong even though you may think that you are right . and I am sure that on average , each tourist here puts $3000 into the DR economy , simple arithmetic , and that whether itgoes to the government or to a shopkeeper, a taxi driver or food merchant is not important..it still is pumped into the economy and then the wife of the person receiving some tourist dollars spends a little and then the person she buys from spends a little and the wheels of the economy go foreward .

Let me just laugh ... haha haha but really ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
That the average tourist spends 3000 dollars during his vacation
hahaha haha hahaha I just cannot stop laughing on this naivity

When I went to Colombia with my daughter for 15 days we did not spend all together more than 2500 dollars including airfare and I was spending like crazy with trips to ATM around the clock.

Now seriously ... I know a lot about tour operator business and I agree 100 percent with the gorgon.
a 1400 euro packaged holidays includes:
600 eur wholesale airfare
550 eur hotel
50 eur local transfer and local rep assistance
200 eur tour operator profit

Out of the 550 that goes to hotel, all is invoiced in Miami, Switzerland or Panam? and it never sees the DR or Cancun or Cuba or Agadir or wherever.
Resorts in DR pay their staff and operating costs by revenue regenerated from local sales and only in special circumstances make transfer payments from HQ from money invoiced overseas for stays in the DR.

The average 1 in 3 tourists take an excursion with an excursion value of 100 USD.

So we have 2 million excursions at 100 dollars a pop so that's 200 million. Plus we have to revenue of 6 million times 50 that's about 300 million, so a total of 500 million dollars.

That is the hard currency revenue that hits the DR.

But now just double that amount to account for other stuff and you have got 1 billion us dollars. 1 billion versus 12 billion. it ain't getting bigger number than that 1 billion. And that is with very optimistic doubling of the initial 500 million.

 

[rubio_higuey]

When did you last book an AI in Punta Cana/Bavaro?

It ain't cheap anymore and it gets 70% of all DR incoming flights as of todays news.

Depends where you buy. USA pays the highest lodging AI rates in the world. Even Canadians pay much less. Germany France and Spain pay the cheapest for the same room (lots more options to travel to beach destinations from Europe if we count Asia Africa and Middle East). I think only the DR local rate is more expensive than the USA rate. Finely tuned price discrimination at it's best.

 

[the gorgon]

Let me just laugh ... haha haha but really ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
That the average tourist spends 3000 dollars during his vacation
hahaha haha hahaha I just cannot stop laughing on this naivity

When I went to Colombia with my daughter for 15 days we did not spend all together more than 2500 dollars including airfare and I was spending like crazy with trips to ATM around the clock.

Now seriously ... I know a lot about tour operator business and I agree 100 percent with the gorgon.
a 1400 euro packaged holidays includes:
600 eur wholesale airfare
550 eur hotel
50 eur local transfer and local rep assistance
200 eur tour operator profit

Out of the 550 that goes to hotel, all is invoiced in Miami, Switzerland or Panam? and it never sees the DR or Cancun or Cuba or Agadir or wherever.
Resorts in DR pay their staff and operating costs by revenue regenerated from local sales and only in special circumstances make transfer payments from HQ from money invoiced overseas for stays in the DR.

The average 1 in 3 tourists take an excursion with an excursion value of 100 USD.

So we have 2 million excursions at 100 dollars a pop so that's 200 million. Plus we have to revenue of 6 million times 50 that's about 300 million, so a total of 500 million dollars.

That is the hard currency revenue that hits the DR.

But now just double that amount to account for other stuff and you have got 1 billion us dollars. 1 billion versus 12 billion. it ain't getting bigger number than that 1 billion. And that is with very optimistic doubling of the initial 500 million.

combat that, Kipling.

 

[the gorgon]

Depends where you buy. USA pays the highest lodging AI rates in the world. Even Canadians pay much less. Germany France and Spain pay the cheapest for the same room (lots more options to travel to beach destinations from Europe if we count Asia Africa and Middle East). I think only the DR local rate is more expensive than the USA rate. Finely tuned price discrimination at it's best.

it is a joy to read the observations of someone who knows what he is talking about. people have to realize that the AI packages for the same estinations cost different prices depending upon the country in which the package is purchased. as rubio says, it is cheaper to buy in Canada than it is in the USA, and in Moscow it might be even less. also, people who look at the internet and buy from a site pay more than guys who walk right into a travel agency. another factor is when you buy. if you see an offer for 1000 dollars , and you buy 2 months in advancfe, the guy who buys a week in advance will laugh at you, since you will pay 1000, and he will pay the landing tax plus a few hundred dollars.

 

[Kipling333]

It seems to me that many contributors are limited by the breadth of their own experiences , I probably am also . I can see the airport taxes per person paid to the airline but then remitted to the Dominican Government , I can see the governement bed tax for every occupancy and I see thousands of golfers paying $ 250 a round or more and then taking a caddy and drinking and eating afterwards and I see all the people in huge disco in Bavaro and the private buses and taxis transporting tourists around and I know there are laundries and cleaners and all the secondary industries that are needed to support a hotel BUT still , some people believe because the tourists tour price is collected in another country , that therefore two thirds stays in that country . That simply is not true unless you think foreign tour operators are operating at more than a 50% profit margin . A tour operator may have tours from Bavaro to Altos de Chavon for example. The money is paid in euros to the tourist operator who has to pay for the buses,entry fees and food on the tour and has to pay this maybe to Caribbean Tours or Metro in the DR . If anyone genuinely thinks that this tour operator puts 66% in his pocket at the end, then they do not believe in competition . The entire argument put foreward by Gorgon is based on a huge amount of money remaining in the pockets of tour operators overseas and if this is not the case then there is no argument.. I believe with much evidence that it is not the case.

 

[the gorgon]

It seems to me that many contributors are limited by the breadth of their own experiences , I probably am also . I can see the airport taxes per person paid to the airline but then remitted to the Dominican Government , I can see the governement bed tax for every occupancy and I see thousands of golfers paying $ 250 a round or more and then taking a caddy and drinking and eating afterwards and I see all the people in huge disco in Bavaro and the private buses and taxis transporting tourists around and I know there are laundries and cleaners and all the secondary industries that are needed to support a hotel BUT still , some people believe because the tourists tour price is collected in another country , that therefore two thirds stays in that country . That simply is not true unless you think foreign tour operators are operating at more than a 50% profit margin . A tour operator may have tours from Bavaro to Altos de Chavon for example. The money is paid in euros to the tourist operator who has to pay for the buses,entry fees and food on the tour and has to pay this maybe to Caribbean Tours or Metro in the DR . If anyone genuinely thinks that this tour operator puts 66% in his pocket at the end, then they do not believe in competition . The entire argument put foreward by Gorgon is based on a huge amount of money remaining in the pockets of tour operators overseas and if this is not the case then there is no argument.. I believe with much evidence that it is not the case.

Kipling, there is a difference between personal experience and knowledge. you also made the remark that i was being combative. well, here it is in a nutshell.

what rubio higuey posted was FACTS. it was the observation of a person who knows what he is talking about. you, on the other hand, do not have a clue what you are discussing, but you want to debate, nonetheless. a smart man knows when he is out of his depth, and sits back, listens, and learns.

you should try it sometimes.

 

[the gorgon]

by the way, Kipling, rubio higuey detailed a summary of costs and revenue allocations, and concluded that the take to the DR government would be in the region of 1 billion dollars. you suggest that it is in the area of 16 billion. so, tell us, in plain terms, how you get from 1 billion to 16 billion. a few thousand golfers won?t get you there...

we are all waiting for your math.

 

[the gorgon]

It seems to me that many contributors are limited by the breadth of their own experiences , I probably am also . I can see the airport taxes per person paid to the airline but then remitted to the Dominican Government , I can see the governement bed tax for every occupancy and I see thousands of golfers paying $ 250 a round or more and then taking a caddy and drinking and eating afterwards and I see all the people in huge disco in Bavaro and the private buses and taxis transporting tourists around and I know there are laundries and cleaners and all the secondary industries that are needed to support a hotel BUT still , some people believe because the tourists tour price is collected in another country , that therefore two thirds stays in that country . That simply is not true unless you think foreign tour operators are operating at more than a 50% profit margin . A tour operator may have tours from Bavaro to Altos de Chavon for example. The money is paid in euros to the tourist operator who has to pay for the buses,entry fees and food on the tour and has to pay this maybe to Caribbean Tours or Metro in the DR . If anyone genuinely thinks that this tour operator puts 66% in his pocket at the end, then they do not believe in competition . The entire argument put foreward by Gorgon is based on a huge amount of money remaining in the pockets of tour operators overseas and if this is not the case then there is no argument.. I believe with much evidence that it is not the case.

by the way, Kipling, neat trick using the high end number of 250 dollars per golfer. i guess you did not bother to go through the mental gymnastics of trying to find an average price for golfing in the DR, but you just liked the high figure. so, you ignore the fact that places like Playa Dorada charge something like 60 bucks, and that it is not much higher at Playa Grande, and that there are courses that charge as little as 35 to 40 dollars.

keep trying, though.

 

[Luperon]

The DR govt gets its biggest cut on the high airline / airport taxes, high fuel charges and tourist visas.

BTW, the fall of PD can be traced back to one local expat in the area who started race baiting conversations with the tourists. Scared the crap out of them, afterwards they went east, never to be seen again.

 

[the gorgon]

Kipling, maybe you can help me with a little arithmetic here.

Jamaica received 2 million tourists in 2014, and claimed earnings of a shade under 2 billion dollars. that is roughly a return of 1000 dollars per tourist. i highly doubt that figure, but there are certain considerations that might make it close to the truth.

1...the bulk of tourists to Jamaica come from the USA, and that is where the bigger spenders originate. only about 25,000 tourists came from bargain basement shoppers like Eastern Europe. contrast that with about 1.2 million of that demographic which visits the DR.

2..the local hotel ownership in Jamaica is far greater than it is in the DR. chains like Sandals and Superclubs are locally owned, as are many of the higher end offerings like Half Moon, Trident, Round Hill, and other such places. the leakage rate , at least on accomodations, and executive salaries, should therefore be less.


so, Kipling, please explain to me, in your most concise language, how it is that a country which is known for its bargain basement package tours rakes in 3 times as much per visitor than the country which developed the all inclusive model, and which should know just as much as the DR does about operating the model.

 

[frank recktenwald]

Maybe like this?

 

[Kipling333]

I have made my case .66% of every overseas tourist dollar does NOT remain in any foreign country .That is false. What ever profit percentage remains to hotel ,airline and tour operators overseas ,it most certainly is nothing like 66% .

 

[the gorgon]

I have made my case .66% of every overseas tourist dollar does NOT remain in any foreign country .That is false. What ever profit percentage remains to hotel ,airline and tour operators overseas ,it most certainly is nothing like 66% .

you do realize that your making a case is meaningless and irrelevant, because it is patently obvious that you know next to nothing about the subject. when i need these matters ventilated, i prefer to get my information from scholars who have done research on the matter, and who have done cross country evaluations.

as i said before, when a person knows nothing about a subject, the appropriate strategy is to keep still, open their ears, and learn something. your way is wrong headed.

 

[playacaribe2]

i posted before that the figure you see there is for Dominican consumption. anyone who can do simple calculations knows it is sheer nonsense. here?s why...

I agree it is likely a puffed figure for consumption.....but I disagree with your analysis below.

the DR gets 5 million tourists per year. in order to receive 16 billion in tourism revenue, each tourist would have to spend 3,000 dollars, plus a shade over. secondly, every penny the tourist spent would have to go straight to the DR government, without any leakage.

I do not believe the government is talking gross revenues to the coffers, but rather the amount of investment brought into the country that they equate to tourism.....not just the number of tourists divided by 16 billion.

Based on their figures, they likely calculate the amount of money brought in/spent by tourists, as well as to construct/maintain hotels and to provide necessary infrastructure/ancillary services to support same. Using such a broad measure...as I am sure they do...16 billion is probably easily justified.

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2