Solar Panels or Batteries??

Apr 13, 2011
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If you already have an inverter and batteries you don't need to buy another one - just maybe more batteries.

I have 6 new 224 watt Sharp solar panels, and 2 top-of-the-line Outback controllers, and cables for sale if you're interested, they're about 40 minutes from SD.

I have no idea if I am interested. I am still learning... I know it was not affordable or practical for me a few years ago, so I had stopped "learning more" until it becomes practical and affordable enough to consider.

For example, I do not even know what I would actually be getting from "6 new 224 watt Sharp solar panels"... or batteries needed...
I know a decent electrician, but I am guessing that I may need someone with experience installing panels, correct??

Basically, I only know enough right now to be dangerous... but I keep following and reading these type of posts/threads to try to learn more.
 

reilleyp

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2006
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You can use my system as a reference. I have 20 panels, 235 watt. Each day they give me 20kw. I use about 50 kw per day, but that is using 3 airconditioners, lots of lights, small exhaust fans, TV's and washing machine and gas dryer. Without the air conditioners, I think I would only use about 25 kw per day. If the panels make 20 kw X 365 days, that is 7300 kw per year. With Luz y Fuerza, at 20 pesos per kw, I am making about $3650 USD of electric per year.

There are many variables. Some days little electric is made due to clouds etc. However on average, based on the lower prices of panels and components, you should recoup your investment in 3-4 years. The batteries add a lot of cost, so if you can put up with outages, or if you get an inverter with the emergency power outlet, which provides power during the day with no batteries, then you can save a lot of money on a system. A 20 panel system with inverter should cost you no more than $9000 USD.

I have no idea if I am interested. I am still learning... I know it was not affordable or practical for me a few years ago, so I had stopped "learning more" until it becomes practical and affordable enough to consider.

For example, I do not even know what I would actually be getting from "6 new 224 watt Sharp solar panels"... or batteries needed...
I know a decent electrician, but I am guessing that I may need someone with experience installing panels, correct??

Basically, I only know enough right now to be dangerous... but I keep following and reading these type of posts/threads to try to learn more.
 

donP

Newbie
Dec 14, 2008
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Highly Recommended

... and 2 top-of-the-line Outback controllers...

If those are the "FLEXmax" series (60 or 80 Amps)(Maximum Power Point Tracking Charge Controllers) then you get very reliable and tough equipment.

Also: The Outback company is generous when it comes to warranty and repairs.

donP
 

windeguy

Platinum
Jul 10, 2004
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You can use my system as a reference. I have 20 panels, 235 watt. Each day they give me 20kw. I use about 50 kw per day, but that is using 3 airconditioners, lots of lights, small exhaust fans, TV's and washing machine and gas dryer. Without the air conditioners, I think I would only use about 25 kw per day. If the panels make 20 kw X 365 days, that is 7300 kw per year. With Luz y Fuerza, at 20 pesos per kw, I am making about $3650 USD of electric per year.

There are many variables. Some days little electric is made due to clouds etc. However on average, based on the lower prices of panels and components, you should recoup your investment in 3-4 years. The batteries add a lot of cost, so if you can put up with outages, or if you get an inverter with the emergency power outlet, which provides power during the day with no batteries, then you can save a lot of money on a system. A 20 panel system with inverter should cost you no more than $9000 USD.

For my property with rental units without AC I calculated that I needed exactly what you have, which is 20 panels. My math is old regarding costs so I will defer to your numbers. With what I spend to recover the cost it wold take me about 6 years.. That is much better than using costs of panels 5 years ago. The problem is that I don't have a good location for that many panels. It takes more than just 2 or 3 panels and your real world experience is an excellent example of what it really takes.

Did you import your own panels and controllers?
 

donP

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Dec 14, 2008
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No MM Job

I do not even know what I would actually be getting from "6 new 224 watt Sharp solar panels"... or batteries needed...

If installed correctly (alignment, angle) the panels could produce approx. 4.5 kWh/day (on average).
Maybe a bit more, but you want to be on the safe side.

I know a decent electrician, but I am guessing that I may need someone with experience installing panels, correct??

Correct; you don't want some Mickey-Mouse ruin your expensive equipment...


donP
 

donP

Newbie
Dec 14, 2008
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Units

I have 20 panels, 235 watt. Each day they give me 20kw. I use about 50 kw per day...

Just not to confuse people:
* Your panels produce 235 Wp; p for peak / max.
* They give you 20 kWh* (= electrical work) and you consume 50 kWh/d.

donP

*)
This is what Dominicans simply call kilo(s) :laugh:
 

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
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If those are the "FLEXmax" series (60 or 80 Amps)(Maximum Power Point Tracking Charge Controllers) then you get very reliable and tough equipment.

Also: The Outback company is generous when it comes to warranty and repairs.

donP

Yes, one is 60 and one is 80.
 

reilleyp

Well-known member
Dec 12, 2006
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680
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For my property with rental units without AC I calculated that I needed exactly what you have, which is 20 panels. My math is old regarding costs so I will defer to your numbers. With what I spend to recover the cost it wold take me about 6 years.. That is much better than using costs of panels 5 years ago. The problem is that I don't have a good location for that many panels. It takes more than just 2 or 3 panels and your real world experience is an excellent example of what it really takes.

Did you import your own panels and controllers?

My location of the panels is not the best. I lose direct light at about 3 pm. I really feel I could increase my output by 30% if I had sun all day. Having said that, you can increase your numbers if you have light all day. Second, they now have 300 watt panels, which are larger physically, but it may allow you to fit more panels.

I import panels, inverters, and charge controllers. Racking and batteries are just too expensive to import because of the high shipping costs.
 

TropicalPaul

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Sep 3, 2013
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I have 22 panels which are very well positioned and we generate about 25 KWh per day. We have 12 AC units, all inverters, 4 fridge/freezers, also inverters, and well over 100 light bulbs, mainly LEDs. And a pool pump, 2 water pumps and about 20 ceiling fans. And the electricity bill comes to about RD$20,000 per month. I guestimate that the panels are saving me about RD$22,000 per month. The whole installation cost me US$15,000 (I got a very good deal), it was installed by a German engineer who is a real expert in solar energy and has never failed. Let me know if you'd like his details.
 

karlheinz

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Oct 2, 2006
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I need to power a 3.6 kilo inversor. Are solar panels better? Is there enough knowledge to install in DR? Is there anyone who knows what all those numbers on the solar panels mean??

It's not a one or the other situation - you need both. Batteries provide a constant supply of power to the Inversor. When used they discharge and need to be recharged, this can be done by solar panels, wind generators or by a 110 AC battery charger. Solar or wind recharging is free and more or less constant but the voltage provided is irregular (not on all the time). AC recharging cost a lot of $$ and if your power is out this is not an option.

The initial outlay for wind / solar / battery can be large but it will pay for itself. It also gives you the option of being completely off the grid (not connected to any outside power source).
 

karlheinz

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Oct 2, 2006
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Solar panel numbers, usually show output voltage - 10v - 18v ; output wattage, expressed as watts or amps. 10 watts - 200 watts, etc. . . this is how much "power" the solar device can produce over X amount of time, and the power is provided at 18 volts maximum.
 

karlheinz

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Oct 2, 2006
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Interesting enough I live on a sailboat much of the year, not connected to shore power. So to produce my power I use a combination of wind generator and solar panels to charge my batteries to provide power to my inverter (2000 Watts / 2KW ). to use this kind of system you need to know the wattage of your elec. devices, i.e. - lamp 100 watts, radio 500 watts, refrig 1500 watts. On the system I can only use the maximum of 2000 watts at any one time. That wattage needs to be replaced and that is by the solar panels and generator ( both of which are very expensive but a ONE TIME COST).

Many advantages - like being totally off the grid, not depending on any outside power source.
Disadvantage - expensive initial outlay, need knowledge of electrical systems, initial battery costs, etc.c.c you need to determine if the initial cost are more / or less than cost of using local electric utility.

1- The Solar panels are NOT a substitute for batteries. You will need the Inverter and the batteries no matter what.
Exactly right - solar is only a charger device to recharge the batteries. It's the battery output that then provides power to the Inverter.

2- Cost of electricity, yes even in DR, cost of energy is not as high as cost per watt of solar panels. Example.

You have a 3.6 KW inverter, That's the maximum continuous capacity, not necessarily what you consume. For the example I will bring that down to 1.2KW that's 28.8KW day or 864 KW month on the light bill or ~$7,732.00 pesos month.

yes but that 3.6 KW / 3600 watts is a maximum output rating of the inverter while being used; NOT the amount of battery power the inverter consumes; the inverter will provide that constant level of wattage until the battery charge is depleted. It's now that cost comes into play - the cost of power to recharge the battery. Either recharge via AC voltage (via the inverter when AC power is available) or some DC method ( wind generator or solar cells ). I definitely agree on financials - the cost of the solar panels are very expensive but a one time outlay - vs the continuous outlay for AC power. but i thought your example kinds of misleads a bit - your example is if you are recharging those batteries 24 hours a day / 7 days a week.

In the DR you have about 4.5 hours of efficient solar radiation for the panels to convert to energy. That's 28.8KW/4.5 = 6.4KW per hour you need to produce. A big solar panel will output about 180 - 190 watts and cost is about $700.00 - $800.00 plus shipping plus tax. Then 6,400 / 180 = 35.5. You will need 36 solar panels and have no need to use EdeEste, EdeSur or EdeNorte. But you will need $25,200 American Dollars or 882,000 pesos, plus shipping and import taxes.



3- The graph and number represent the maximum power under maximum temperature. The Breakdown voltage, the open voltage etc.

4- Unless you have a big, apartment you don't have the space to put it. The solar panels must point to the south.

5- Think about the following, If you are not Dominican ask any of your friends back home if they know what an inverter is. Ask them if the know what's the peak power of their homes, etc. Dominican know how to make inverters, batteries because it's a way to survive the long ending crisis they have. Yes you will find dumb Dominicans that will burn the inverter but you will also find that in any part of the world. The DR is the place to promote Inverters World Wide, They have more inverters per each head ( Per Capita ) than any place in the world, that's a fact.


Yep, the only people who know anything like this are boaters, RV users, and surprising enough, the Amish, oh and the off-grid people building earthships (Taos, New Mexico).
 

karlheinz

New member
Oct 2, 2006
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those deep cycle gel batteries are still 'gellin'' since 2008..... no replacements yet (fingers crossed)[/QUOTE]

I just this year replaced my Deep cycle AGM marine batteries that I purchased in 2005. They still showed 12 volts but had lost almost all storage capacity. Replaced with OPTIMA BLUE - deep cycle / starting batteries - 750 CCA's - they are the new design "spiral" AGM - resist's movement damage - but cost $235 each (US). I dearly hope they last as long as the others (9 years).
 

william webster

Platinum
Jan 16, 2009
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interesting reading.

we've come a long way since the last time talked about this.... Windeguy and others were the leaders of that thread back a few years ago.

I am still happy with my system... reliability was my driving interest, cost saving was secondary.

blow up a few TV's or computers and your payback time improves sharply.
nobody ever factors disaster into into the formula.

kind of an insurance policy , if you like
 
Aug 6, 2006
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One problem with solar panels is that they can be easily damaged in windstorms. Also, you have to keep them clean for maximum efficiency and therefore you have to know how to clean then without damaging them.
 

william webster

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Jan 16, 2009
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we just mop them.... mine were installed in a specially built place - sheltered

contrary to another post - we are at 22 or 23 degrees for the optimum angle

but YES , XO... clean panels work better and the right sized wires help efficiency too
 

AlterEgo

Administrator
Staff member
Jan 9, 2009
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we just mop them.... mine were installed in a specially built place - sheltered

contrary to another post - we are at 22 or 23 degrees for the optimum angle

but YES , XO... clean panels work better and the right sized wires help efficiency too

How often do they need to be cleaned WW?