- Thread starter Snuffy
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Status of Santo Domingo
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castleburger, bless you for those words of wisdom! REAL BUS SYSTEM WITHOUT GUAGUAS. dream on! for this to be accepted by a public we would have to wait for few generations! i totally agree with you thou, all this present public transport system is pain in the a**, it encourages corruption and discourages tourism. how can a tourist venture out of resort and bring some monies to the country when on each trip he is ripped off and missinformed that he/she never repeats the experience out of sheer confusion? when i first came here EVERY guest in the hotel got overcharged at least once for his trips.
break the necks of those damn transport syndicats and bring in proper buses on set routs with set timetables. some the jobs in transport will be lost but more tourists means more money and eventually more jobs in other departments.
ok, i know, now I AM dreaming....
break the necks of those damn transport syndicats and bring in proper buses on set routs with set timetables. some the jobs in transport will be lost but more tourists means more money and eventually more jobs in other departments.
ok, i know, now I AM dreaming....
Have you seen the master plan for the metro?
It's more than one single line.... however, a metro system is built one line at a time.
The full metro project will encompass three lines, the current one being built and then another along the Kennedy and 27 with the 27 line crossing the Ozama into SDQ Este.
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I can see Robert does not check the ISPs members of this site log in from. If that would have been the case, he would have noticed my log ins were closer to his DR1 office on Mejia Ricart at the end of August and early September of this year.
And YES, I did noticed that the tiles of the tunnels (particularly the tunnels on Las Americas going eastward) was missing some tiles while the other adjacent tunnel going towards the Juan Bosch bridge was missing all the tiles from the wall, removed by the public works department in order to prevent an accident as the tiles were falling off.
HOWEVER, the integrity of the structures are still sound. The tiles are mere cosmetic which was done in a shoddy manner, similar to what happened in Boston when a slab of cement fell from one of the tunnels killing a Puerto Rican woman who was driving her car.
What bridge or tunnel has collapsed in Santo Domingo or in the DR?????????
Why is the Duarte bridge fully opened and sound? What happened to the collapse many people were predicting??
Despite all of this, the need for a metro exist and will continue to exist as time passes. Since the DR has already started to build this thing, it's better to simply finish the entire project rather than leaving it unfinished.
Either way people are going to talk, if its finished they will complain as they are doing now and if its not finished, they will complain that it was not finished and use it as an example of why large projects should not be done.
Just like happened in all the major cities of the world when they decided to build their metro system, everyone hated it and once it was built, people can't imagine living without it.
-NALs
"What are they capable of doing? Spending massive amounts of tax payers money, taking on a huge amount of debt and at the same time line their own pockets. They couldn't careless about the longevity of the project or if it's still capable of functioning in 4 years. It's about the graft of the few, not the benefit of the many."
Robert sure does know what he is talking about. I have said before and I will say it again; The Dominican politicians love to copy what the American politicians do. The Metro can be compared to the big dig and the Massachusetts Turnpike. They are all nothing more than money making projects for the politicians and their families. In Massachusetts we will NEVER be done paying for either one of them and in the DR you will NEVER be done paying for the metro or the highway with tolls.
PS I wish my father was a politician instead of a construction worker who helped build the Mass Turnpike.
Robert sure does know what he is talking about. I have said before and I will say it again; The Dominican politicians love to copy what the American politicians do. The Metro can be compared to the big dig and the Massachusetts Turnpike. They are all nothing more than money making projects for the politicians and their families. In Massachusetts we will NEVER be done paying for either one of them and in the DR you will NEVER be done paying for the metro or the highway with tolls.
PS I wish my father was a politician instead of a construction worker who helped build the Mass Turnpike.
I can't imagine living without the holes in Maximo G?mez or with the 50 and 100 year old trees on Correa y Cidr?n that were removed for the metro.
I can't imagine a public hospital with adequate medicine in Santo Domingo. I can't imagine a free public school system in Santo Domingo that takes the natural desire of children to learn, builds on that and turns out students equipped to deal with the challenges and opportunities of the modern word.
I don't have to imagine arrogant swarms of Jeepetas charging through traffic horns blaring. They're all around.
I can't imagine a public hospital with adequate medicine in Santo Domingo. I can't imagine a free public school system in Santo Domingo that takes the natural desire of children to learn, builds on that and turns out students equipped to deal with the challenges and opportunities of the modern word.
I don't have to imagine arrogant swarms of Jeepetas charging through traffic horns blaring. They're all around.
People like you Nal?s and your cohearts sure do love to blow your own horns and have no idea as to what you are talking about or just love to ignore the truth because you are possible part of those that are lining your pockets with that which should be going toward education of the children in the Dominican Republic. I distain people that enjoy stealing and especially those that steal from children.
I would suggest that you read the DR1 news from today if you wish to see your metro. Before any of you supposed intelligent people continue to talk about the NY transit system I think you should investigate how much that pocket lining monstrosity costs to operate and how much it loses daily and how much it is subsidized by the tax dollars of New Yorker?s from the whole state and not just the city.
Just like here in the DR the whole country will be paying for the rest of their lives for something the majority of them will probably never see. (Even if it should be completed and become operational).
Rick
As has been stated already, you need to listen to what Robert has to say because he has a better handle of the situation in SD then you will ever have nals and I don't think he and I know I could care less about where your ISP for this week is from.
I would suggest that you read the DR1 news from today if you wish to see your metro. Before any of you supposed intelligent people continue to talk about the NY transit system I think you should investigate how much that pocket lining monstrosity costs to operate and how much it loses daily and how much it is subsidized by the tax dollars of New Yorker?s from the whole state and not just the city.
Just like here in the DR the whole country will be paying for the rest of their lives for something the majority of them will probably never see. (Even if it should be completed and become operational).
Rick
As has been stated already, you need to listen to what Robert has to say because he has a better handle of the situation in SD then you will ever have nals and I don't think he and I know I could care less about where your ISP for this week is from.
Nonesense.NALs said:
What I do know is that investment in education is gauged as a percentage of the national budget and that is what is used to compare and contrast different countries.
It's no secret that the Dominican economy (thus it's GDP) is among the fastest growing in Latin America. Tax collection has been among the highest it ever has been since the end of Trujillo and this means the government has a larger budget to work with (not to mention the comfy reserves amount).
Guess what happens to investment in education as a percentage of the national budget when the budget increases? The percentage decreases!
Yes indeed, it DECREASES. However, the reasons are not for what many people would jump to believing.
It simply decreases because the amount invested continues to be the same as it was when the national government budget was less. As the budget increases, but the spending for education stays the same, the percentage of the budget devoted to education decreases.
It has nothing to do with budget cuts on education, but it has everything to do with more money in the coffers and the same amount is still devoted to education as was the case when the coffers were a little smaller.
For one thing, the San Juan is a city where even poor people have cars. In fact, Puerto Rico has more cars than it has people!Rick Snyder said:
In a car-centric city like San Juan, any mass transit system would be a flop as they are in most places across the U.S.A. mostly due to the low density, high ownership of private vehicles, and car oriented development.
Santo Domingo does not fills that profile. Most Santo Domingans don't own a car of their own, density within the city is rising (albeit a good chunck is car-centric, the increase in density in neighborhoods such as Naco, Piantini, La Esperilla in addition to the increase and crowding in neighborhoods such as Cristo Rey, Villa Mella or Mejoramiento Social is different from the case in Puerto Rico).
In fact, go anywhere in Puerto Rico and there supposedly is a public transport network. Like many places in U.S.A., it's hard to find it. In DR, on the other hand, the country is crawling with public transportation from official bus lines to informal conchos of all types.
Very different scenario the DR1 article is contrasting.
However, regarding your comment of NYC, one must also take into account the increase in productivity and the time saved in travel due to the metro system. It's obvious that the economy of the city benefits substantially from the metro, for that reason government continues to subsidies it and keeps it running.
The economy will benefit more than it will lose in these types of projects and Santo Domingo accounting for no less than 40% of the economic output of the DR, it would be a priority to ensure that such economic importance is not chocked because people cannot go from point A to point B in a decent amount of time.
I'm listening and so is Robert (for a reason he and others continue to respond to my posts regarding this matter).Rick Snyder said:
However, there are several realities at work in this discussion:
1. The project has already been started, might as well finish it.
2. The opinions expressed in this forum will not make any type of impact on whether the project will be finished or not.
3. There is a need for a mass transit system in Santo Domingo. Whether it would have been better to impose an efficient bus route system or some other form is irrelevant since the metro has already been started.
4. The accusations of corruption are rather tiresome. Whatelse is new? At least there is corruption and something is coming out of this. Contrast that to what happened under the previous administration when millions of dollars were taken in loans for projects and not a sand was moved, but the money sure did dissappeared!
It's like that old joke:
"The finance minister of Ghana visited the finance minister of India. After the official meeting, the finance minister of Ghana was given a private tour by the minister of India of his home in New Delhi. The Finance minister of Ghana asks the Indian "how can you afford this nice house with your pay check" and the Indian takes him to a nice bay window in his luxurious home and says to the Ghana minister "you see that bridge over there", the Ghana minister says "yes", and the Indian points towards his chest and says "10 percent".
A few months later the finance minister of India visits the finance minister of Ghana in Ghana. The Indian minister gets a private tour of the Ghana ministers home and the Indian asks: "with your pay, how could you afford this luxurious home?". The Ghana minister takes the Indian to a nice bay window in his home and says to the Indian: "You see that bridge over there?" The Indian responds "what bridge?", the Ghana ministers says "exactly" he points towards his chest and says "100 percent"!
Now, jokes aside, in an inperfect world where people will be corrupt no matter what, what is better:
Leaders who steal everything that is there to steal without giving nothing in return or leaders who steal while at least something comes out of it?
I'll pick the Indian over the Ghanian any day!
Utopias don't exist, never has, and never will and neither will corruption!
But some type of corruption IS better than other types.
-NALs
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Thank you!!!!
In so few words you said what I have been saying all along!
People are acting here as if they actually have control of what happens in the country or even as if what is posted here actually influences the leaders of the country!!!
The darn thing is getting built, whether DR1ers like it or not and that is a fact that many seem to have a hard time swallowing.
-NALs
In that sentence from my response to Rick, what I meant to say was that "neither will the idea of a corruption free society".
-NALs
NAL's, thanks for completely avoiding answering my question 
In case you missed the theme of my post, it was focused on the
ability to maintain the Metro, long after the few have brought new
cars and apartments in Miami etc.
I agree, a functioning, affordable Metro would indeed be an asset to Santo Domingo, this isn't my point. My point is this... They have absolutely no ability to maintain it and they couldn't careless once it's built.
Just like many other projects that have fallen apart here due to lack of on-going maintenance, funding, desire, intelligence etc etc.
I'm waiting... tik, tok, tik, tok.....
Our news today...
If Puerto Rico can't do it...
Hoy newspaper is reporting that the Puerto Rican Metro loses US$95 million annually; this is according to figures published in the Puerto Rican newspaper El Nuevo Dia. The annual cost of the PR Metro is US$106 million, while revenues only total US$11 million. The paper reports that the US$2 billion project, the most expensive in Puerto Rico's history, consists of a few train cars going back and forth between Santurce and Bayamon, with fewer than 50,000 total riders, far less than the original expectations. The authorities originally estimated that 80,000 people would use the train daily, but studies place this figure at around 20,000. There is no other form of public transport to support the metro, stands haven't been finished, and the metro will always have to be subsidized. The original plans called for a US$1 billion project, but the prices skyrocketed, and took close to ten years to finish. It is 17.2 kilometers in length and has 16 stations. The Santo Domingo metro by comparison will have 16 stations at an estimated cost of US$326.6 million, not including subsidies, stations, maintenance and other hidden costs.
In case you missed the theme of my post, it was focused on the
ability to maintain the Metro, long after the few have brought new
cars and apartments in Miami etc.
I agree, a functioning, affordable Metro would indeed be an asset to Santo Domingo, this isn't my point. My point is this... They have absolutely no ability to maintain it and they couldn't careless once it's built.
Just like many other projects that have fallen apart here due to lack of on-going maintenance, funding, desire, intelligence etc etc.
I'm waiting... tik, tok, tik, tok.....
Our news today...
If Puerto Rico can't do it...
Hoy newspaper is reporting that the Puerto Rican Metro loses US$95 million annually; this is according to figures published in the Puerto Rican newspaper El Nuevo Dia. The annual cost of the PR Metro is US$106 million, while revenues only total US$11 million. The paper reports that the US$2 billion project, the most expensive in Puerto Rico's history, consists of a few train cars going back and forth between Santurce and Bayamon, with fewer than 50,000 total riders, far less than the original expectations. The authorities originally estimated that 80,000 people would use the train daily, but studies place this figure at around 20,000. There is no other form of public transport to support the metro, stands haven't been finished, and the metro will always have to be subsidized. The original plans called for a US$1 billion project, but the prices skyrocketed, and took close to ten years to finish. It is 17.2 kilometers in length and has 16 stations. The Santo Domingo metro by comparison will have 16 stations at an estimated cost of US$326.6 million, not including subsidies, stations, maintenance and other hidden costs.
nals, remember this thread?
http://www.dr1.com/forums/government/48298-metro-defenders-answer-these-questions-please.html
Or this?
http://www.dr1.com/forums/377766-post30.html
And these tid-bits I posted for your reading pleasure;
http://www.dr1.com/forums/418001-post45.html
http://www.dr1.com/forums/417969-post42.html
Rick
http://www.dr1.com/forums/government/48298-metro-defenders-answer-these-questions-please.html
Or this?
http://www.dr1.com/forums/377766-post30.html
And these tid-bits I posted for your reading pleasure;
http://www.dr1.com/forums/418001-post45.html
http://www.dr1.com/forums/417969-post42.html
Rick
FantasyLand
Yes, Robert is right. This metro thing is a big fantasy. People make comparisons to New York. There is a big difference. In the USA, we maintain our infrastructure. Our roads are excellent. Your transportation system starts with your roads and if you cant maintain your roads then how are you going to maintain a metro? You aren't. IF you actually build the thing then it will become a filthy and often broken down piece of art. And if it becomes apparent that it is going to take millions to maintain instead of paying for itself....well, that just is not the dominican way. But I believe that IF up there is a BIG IF. After the tunnels have been built and money dries up...we may find that they simply abandon the project.
The wiser thing would have been to invest in your roads and perhaps improve and inforce requirements to operate a vehicle on the road.
Common sense is often lacking in the face of big money investments.
Yes, Robert is right. This metro thing is a big fantasy. People make comparisons to New York. There is a big difference. In the USA, we maintain our infrastructure. Our roads are excellent. Your transportation system starts with your roads and if you cant maintain your roads then how are you going to maintain a metro? You aren't. IF you actually build the thing then it will become a filthy and often broken down piece of art. And if it becomes apparent that it is going to take millions to maintain instead of paying for itself....well, that just is not the dominican way. But I believe that IF up there is a BIG IF. After the tunnels have been built and money dries up...we may find that they simply abandon the project.
The wiser thing would have been to invest in your roads and perhaps improve and inforce requirements to operate a vehicle on the road.
Common sense is often lacking in the face of big money investments.
As usual, it depends on what administration is in power at the time a maintenance is needed.NAL's, thanks for completely avoiding answering my question
In case you missed the theme of my post, it was focused on the
ability to maintain the Metro, long after the few have brought new
cars and apartments in Miami etc.
I agree, a functioning, affordable Metro would indeed be an asset to Santo Domingo, this isn't my point. My point is this... They have absolutely no ability to maintain it and they couldn't careless once it's built.
Just like many other projects that have fallen apart here due to lack of on-going maintenance, funding, desire, intelligence etc etc.
I'm waiting... tik, tok, tik, tok.....
Under Hipolito the Duarte bridge was on the brink of collapse....
" " " garbage collection in Distrito Nacional was at an all time low....
Etc etc etc.
Under Leonel the Duarte bridge was given a complete make over and garbage collection in DN has increased among other things.
It depends on the leadership of the country and what projects are given priority during their maintenance time.
There are projects and there are ways to ensure proper maintenance.
Look at AILA, Duarte bridge, the repairs made to several streets within Santo Domingo after the current administration took power, etc etc.
There are plenty of examples of both issues (maintenance and lack of maintenance) for people on both sides to make a case.
And guess what? Tomorrow morning the workers will be on the job continuing to build the metro project regardless of who is for or against this project for whatever the reasons.
-NALs
NAL's, I think you will find that both the PLD, PRSC and PRD are to blame for the lack of repairs to the bridge over the years. In case it slipped your mind... It was under the PLD (Leonel) that the brand new suspension cables back in 1998 rotted in the Port of Haina due to inability of the public works dept to install them within a year.
After 50 years of no maintenance, public pressure due to how dangerous it was forced them into doing something. It was nothing to do with foresight or scheduled maintenance.
They only fix stuff here when it breaks, preventative maintenance is not a very common word here. Just go ask any car dealer service dept.
As I said, feel free to answer my question on how they plan to maintain the Metro. Both in terms of subsidies and engineering. Yeah I know, it's not easy is it? You can't find a source or reference for that sort of stuff, as it hasn't even been discussed yet. Why? Because they don't give a crap, they have their money and it's not going to be their problem.
We are all very aware the Metro is going to be built NAL's, thanks for reminding us! Despite the massive amount of opposition from virtually all sectors of the Dominican Republic. Also the negative reports given by mass transport experts and what posters on DR1 feel. Does that mean we should sit back an take it? Jesus NAL's, that sounds very Dominican to me...
After 50 years of no maintenance, public pressure due to how dangerous it was forced them into doing something. It was nothing to do with foresight or scheduled maintenance.
They only fix stuff here when it breaks, preventative maintenance is not a very common word here. Just go ask any car dealer service dept.
As I said, feel free to answer my question on how they plan to maintain the Metro. Both in terms of subsidies and engineering. Yeah I know, it's not easy is it? You can't find a source or reference for that sort of stuff, as it hasn't even been discussed yet. Why? Because they don't give a crap, they have their money and it's not going to be their problem.
We are all very aware the Metro is going to be built NAL's, thanks for reminding us! Despite the massive amount of opposition from virtually all sectors of the Dominican Republic. Also the negative reports given by mass transport experts and what posters on DR1 feel. Does that mean we should sit back an take it? Jesus NAL's, that sounds very Dominican to me...
IOIS-03 you just don?t get it and I?m beginning to believe that you aren?t capable of getting it. Your statement, ?There are plenty of examples of both issues (maintenance and lack of maintenance) for people on both sides to make a case?, and the examples you use have no true bearing on that which we are discussing.
A person with normal intelligence will check their oil level in their vehicle periodically. The Dominican mindset will check their oil when the motor burns up due to a lack of oil. The majority of the road builders will build a road that will last at least 10 years before that road needs patching and that is usually due to the massive and heavy traffic that flows over it. A Dominican road builder will build a road that will need patching within one year and that is a road with not much traffic and virtually none of it heavy. An electrician will splice two wires using heat shrink tubing in the process and soldering the wires, crimping a splice clip, using a butt/barrel connector and if all else fails a wire nut is used. If heat shrink tubing isn?t an option then electrical tape can and is used. A Dominican will twist the wires together and that?s it.
Maintenance is the act of maintaining or the state of keeping something maintained which requires a schedule to be followed regularly and the maintenance to be done correctly. I and most people on this board know the possibility and probability of Dominicans following a set schedule and doing things correctly on ANYTHING except maybe their drinking and cock fights, you know, those things that are essential for life to function.
Preventive maintenance, I know a new word for you, is an action that is performed on a regular basis which also requires an inspection to insure that something stays operational. Checking your oil is a form of PM in that it insures that the motor has enough lubricant to operate correctly. The secret for this function, other than performing it, is to know that when the dip stick indicates that you are a quart low that you have enough sense to add a quart. While you are under the hood you must also inspect the other parts of the engine for such things like leaks and you must check, with your hands, for things that might be loose like fan belts. I understand how this concept may be strange and foreign to some but it is very important that it is carried out and done correctly and therein lies the problem.
Rick
The IOIS-03 stands for Insulting Our Intelligence Since 2003 and he knows who that is. Isn?t that right nal?s?
A person with normal intelligence will check their oil level in their vehicle periodically. The Dominican mindset will check their oil when the motor burns up due to a lack of oil. The majority of the road builders will build a road that will last at least 10 years before that road needs patching and that is usually due to the massive and heavy traffic that flows over it. A Dominican road builder will build a road that will need patching within one year and that is a road with not much traffic and virtually none of it heavy. An electrician will splice two wires using heat shrink tubing in the process and soldering the wires, crimping a splice clip, using a butt/barrel connector and if all else fails a wire nut is used. If heat shrink tubing isn?t an option then electrical tape can and is used. A Dominican will twist the wires together and that?s it.
Maintenance is the act of maintaining or the state of keeping something maintained which requires a schedule to be followed regularly and the maintenance to be done correctly. I and most people on this board know the possibility and probability of Dominicans following a set schedule and doing things correctly on ANYTHING except maybe their drinking and cock fights, you know, those things that are essential for life to function.
Preventive maintenance, I know a new word for you, is an action that is performed on a regular basis which also requires an inspection to insure that something stays operational. Checking your oil is a form of PM in that it insures that the motor has enough lubricant to operate correctly. The secret for this function, other than performing it, is to know that when the dip stick indicates that you are a quart low that you have enough sense to add a quart. While you are under the hood you must also inspect the other parts of the engine for such things like leaks and you must check, with your hands, for things that might be loose like fan belts. I understand how this concept may be strange and foreign to some but it is very important that it is carried out and done correctly and therein lies the problem.
Rick
The IOIS-03 stands for Insulting Our Intelligence Since 2003 and he knows who that is. Isn?t that right nal?s?
Yep, thats right! I thought you would get it by now. But you not Dominican anyway, so that figures.
monster I think you need to be a little more diplomatic or at least know what you?re talking about before your alligator mouth overtakes your bunny rabbit a$$.
Your post where you said, ?Yep, thats right! I thought you would get it by now. But you not Dominican anyway, so that figures?, sounds strange coming from an American. If there is the oft chance that you have acquired your Dominican citizenship since being born in the US then you need to look at what you said to Robert and what your statement says about Dominicans in general. But then again if you are a Dominican citizen also then I can understand why you said what you did.
Your next post that you made to Cleef whereas you said, ?No she was Puerto Rican dooshbag!!! BTW I live in Boston?, was another example of that alligator mouth at work again. At least you had a little bit of sense to come back 4 minutes later and edit your stupid post due to the fact that it was wrong. Bunny rabbit what??????
Rick
Your post where you said, ?Yep, thats right! I thought you would get it by now. But you not Dominican anyway, so that figures?, sounds strange coming from an American. If there is the oft chance that you have acquired your Dominican citizenship since being born in the US then you need to look at what you said to Robert and what your statement says about Dominicans in general. But then again if you are a Dominican citizen also then I can understand why you said what you did.
Your next post that you made to Cleef whereas you said, ?No she was Puerto Rican dooshbag!!! BTW I live in Boston?, was another example of that alligator mouth at work again. At least you had a little bit of sense to come back 4 minutes later and edit your stupid post due to the fact that it was wrong. Bunny rabbit what??????
Rick
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