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NALs

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OK.......Nals........do answer the one about the cost to ride the metro. Are the people really going to pay to ride it? What do you think.
Depends on several factors such as what the actual price of a ticket will be.

There are various projections out there ranging from as low as RD$5 to as high as RD$75. Obviously, different groups with different perspective on this projects are giving the disparate projections.

One thing is certain, the metro will be more efficient than any terrestial mode of transport in the following arenas:

1. Time, it's expected that the metro will cover its entire route (from Villa Mella to Centro de los Heroes) in around 13 to 15 minutes. It does not matter how fast someone travels by land, 15 minutes is not even the minimum time for such travel along such route.

2. Efficiency, unlike conchos and guaguas which stop at will just about anywhere causing traffic problems, the metro leaves when it has to go. No hold ups, not bottlenecks and people get to where they wanted to go.

3. While this will become more favorable once the system has more than one line, it's still important to note that the passenger will only pay once for his/her ticket. Once a person is past the ticket buying area, they can ride the trains and switch lines as often as they like without having to pay additional money. Unlike conchos or guaguas, often they don't veer off their routes and often times, people taking those types of public transport need to switch cars or guaguas paying more to get to their destination everytime they hop into a new vehicle. Not so with a metro, but again this becomes more beneficial once the system has more than one line.

4. The metro system will also include a series of buses which will circulate adjacent neighborhoods of each metro station. This will be done in order to make it more comfortable and efficient for metro passengers to move from their neighborhood area to the metro station, take the metro to their destination area, and be on their way. Not much has been mentioned about this feature, except on the intial presentations of the project and a few times after the construction of the first line started, however.

Taking all those things into consideration, in addition to the fact that the government is claiming that tickets will cost less than a concho and anti-metro entities are claiming that it will cost more, the follow set of conclusions are possible.

1. In general, people might take the metro more often than the erratic public transport now available if the government suggestion that it will cost less than a concho remains true. If that's the case, taking a metro will not only be more beneficial and economical on the pockets of individuals, but also time wise as well which, as you know, time is money in the long run. The more time people spend doing what they wanted to do vs travelling to their destination, the better off people will be in the long run. How much better is difficult to say without data.

2. If the metro tickets do turn out to be more expensive than a concho, many people may not use the metro for their day to day travel. However, the large savings in time and higher level of comfort vs a typical concho or guagua traveling the same route could be a means for the Dominican to justify the higher monetary cost of such mode of transport. While there are examples of official public buses not being used as expected due to higher cost for the usage of those buses, one must also understand that a bus runs as fast as the traffic that sorrounds it.

Thus, taking a concho is not only more economical, but makes more sense since a concho and an official public bus will most likely be stuck in the same traffic flow and moving more or less at the same speed, thus there is no real savings in any shape of form between the two.

With a metro, while the conchos are stuck in slower traffic flows, the metro travels at its expected speed which is much quicker and efficient than terrestial transport.

Thus, how much do Dominican value their time will be the deciding factor between whether Dominicans will be willing to pay more monetarily while saving timewise.

3. What is most likely to occur is that government would keep price of a ticket for metro usage below the cost of a concho. All other savings offered by the metro will exist no matter what, but if the metro also becomes a savings in cold hard cash for the rider, the conchos will be out of business. Once the conchos are out of business, the main competition of the government will be out of business and thus the government would be able to increase the metro fares (perhaps not as high as RD$75, but higher than a concho ride) and due to the lack of conchos the people will have to pay the on going fare, which more than expected people might be willing to pay once they have experienced the efficiency of traveling across town faster than they normally would have.

However, every time metro price goes up beyond what a concho would have cost, the probability that unofficial conchos will come into existence is very real taking away business from the metro. This means that the metro will have to remain either cheaper or be priced on par a concho. In fact, because of the tremendous savings a metro offers in traveling time, the metro could be priced slightly above the conchos and the probability that it will remain very popular is very real due to the combined savings in time and the relatively small difference between metro rides vs hot, stuffy, slow, and much more dangerous concho rides.

These are the scenarios that could appear, but only time will tell.

It will all ride on how much Dominicans value their time in travelling across the city. A good way to get an amateur idea of this would be to ask Dominicans what they think about current travelling times along the route the metro is under construction and whether or not they would like for the travelling time to be much less. Afterwards, a question asking them if they will be willing to pay slightly above the fare of a concho if it allowed them to reached their destination much faster.

While data is better than anecdotal evidence, the anecdotal could give a general idea as to what might happen once the metro is completed, at least the first couple of lines.

But, again, only time will tell and for this we need some time to pass to see where it will go.

-NALs
 

Chirimoya

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Dec 9, 2002
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Nals, remember when this all started and you said you would only support the Metro if it were a privately funded and run project (like the island)? What changed?
 

Robert

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NAL's... Shame you wasn't about in Hitlers time... He could have been another "Oprah" with your spin.

yawn.jpg
 

NALs

Economist by Profession
Jan 20, 2003
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Nals, remember when this all started and you said you would only support the Metro if it were a privately funded and run project (like the island)? What changed?
What has changed is the fact that the project has been started already.

Notice, I was against it during a time when being against such project could have resulted in real change, if people organized and properly voiced their opinions.

It's too late now, the tunnels have been built and everything else is getting in place.

The next best thing is to support it, since it's already being built.

This is what is most bothering me the most from many posters, their instance of debating this once the project has been started. I don't see the point in going against something once it has been started. For what?

Everything has its time and place, the time to be against this has passed.

With time, opinions change.

Remember when you asked me (via PM) about a year ago why had I changed my position in the DR-CAFTA debate? What did I told you? The reason was not having enough information of the agreement vs. gaining more detailed information.

This was done on private messages and if you have not erased them, they should still be there in the records. I sure have them.

With time opinions change based on the information gained. However, it's all based on a specific amount of time. Eventually, the time of indifference comes forth and that is what is occuring with the metro.

Now it makes no effect on whether a person supports or rejects the metro, the thing is being built.

The time to rejected was before they broke ground and up until that moment I was a staunchly anti-metro. Afterwards and after seeing that the project was going forward with the degree of construction already completed, I have no choice but to support it.

If you can't beat them, join them. Otherwise, you'll be wasting your time and your energy in vain.

-NALs
 
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Robert

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I have said it before and I will say it again, look no further than OMSA buses to see why the Metro will fail.

57% of buses out of service
Only 400 buses out of a total fleet of 928 assigned to the metropolitan office of bus services (OMSA) are in service in Santo Domingo and Santiago. This represents only 43.1% of the total. Meanwhile, 120 units are in mechanics workshops for repair and 80 are being rebuilt. Another 185 are unusable junk. A further three units are on loan to public institutions, whereas the remaining 70 were withdrawn from inventory due to their advanced state of deterioration, according to a report by Clave newspaper. Because of this situation, OMSA is only covering 18% of the demand for public transportation in the Santo Domingo and Santiago metropolitan zones.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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I have said it before and I will say it again, look no further than OMSA buses to see why the Metro will fail.

57% of buses out of service
Only 400 buses out of a total fleet of 928 assigned to the metropolitan office of bus services (OMSA) are in service in Santo Domingo and Santiago. This represents only 43.1% of the total. Meanwhile, 120 units are in mechanics workshops for repair and 80 are being rebuilt. Another 185 are unusable junk. A further three units are on loan to public institutions, whereas the remaining 70 were withdrawn from inventory due to their advanced state of deterioration, according to a report by Clave newspaper. Because of this situation, OMSA is only covering 18% of the demand for public transportation in the Santo Domingo and Santiago metropolitan zones.

For a short version of this answer, scroll to the bottom of this post!
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Clave Digital has done a mistake.

1. The numbers don't add up. It claims 928 assigned, but tally up the numbers and it only adds up to 858! There is a deficit of 70 buses unaccounted for if it's true that 928 were assigned to OMSA.

2. So, 400 buses in operations plus 120 under-repair (meaning they have a possibility of returning to operation), plus 80 being rebuilt (again, possibility of returning to operation), and plus 3 which have been loaned equals 603 buses. 403 currently in operation and 200 will be in operation sometime in the future.

185 are unusable (thus can't count on those buses returning to operation in the future).

In other words, assuming 928 were assigned and the deficit is an act of human error or intentional misinformation (who knows?), let's tally up the following: then 65% of all buses OMSA received for public transport are either in operation and/or will be in operation at a future date. Only 35% are out of operation for good.

Now, that is assuming 928 is the total number of buses. However, since the numbers offered by Clave Digital does not add up to 928, let's make this other assumption with the number they do add up to: 858.

That means the following: 70% of all buses OMSA has in its possession are in operation and/or will be in operation at a future date. Only 30% are out of operation for good.

Maintenance has galluped up 23.3% of all buses, which are the buses that will be back in operation once maintenance is finish.

A mere .03% are loaned to other institutions.

Assuming the original 928 number which is unaccounted for in the numbers offered in the news article, the operating 400 buses account for 18% of demand. That means that each bus in operation covers approximately 4.5% of demand. That means that, assuming all other things constant, if all buses were to be in operation (all 928 buses), they would only satisfy 41.8% of demand for public transportation.

Now, let's think about this for a moment. That 41.8% of demand is supposed to be covered by OMSA buses, while the remaining 58.2% is covered by other forms of transport (guaguas, conchos, motoconchos, etc).

Thus, the 18% the report mentions is 18% of TOTAL PUBLIC TRANSPORT DEMAND.

It's not 18% of the demand there is for OMSA buses.

The demand OMSA buses fulfills is 100% @ 928 buses being in operation. That means that each OMSA bus covers 0.11% of OMSA public transport demand. Thus, the 400 buses in operation are actually covering 44% of total OMSA public transport demand and another 22% of demand would be fulfilled once the buses under repair are re-introduced into circulation. In other words, 66% of OMSA public transport demand is or will be fulfilled by OMSA buses, while 33% of demand will not be fulfilled unless new buses are purchased!

Let's keep in mind, these final findings are based on the assumption that 928 buses is the total number of OMSA buses, even though the actual numbers offered only add up to 858!
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FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO LOVE SHORT ANSWERS:

ALL PUBLIC TRANSPORT DEMAND EQUALS 100%.

OMSA BUSES ONLY ARE SUPPOSE TO COVER 41.8% OF ALL DEMAND, WITH THE REMAINING 58.2% BEING SERVICED BY CONCHOS, GUAGUAS, ETC.

Currently, OMSA is covering 18% of ALL PUBLIC TRANSPORT DEMAND, but 44% of OMSA PUBLIC TRANSPORT DEMAND.

Another 22% of OMSA PUBLIC TRANSPORT DEMAND would be fulfilled once they are out of maintenance, thus 66% of OMSA PUBLIC TRANSPORT DEMAND will be fulfilled.

33% of OMSA PUBLIC TRANSPORT DEMAND will not be fulfilled unless new buses replaced those that are "junk".

-NALs
 
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Robert

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Sometimes you really can't see the wood for the trees.

NAL's, it boils down to just this, regardless of how much time you waste trying to spin the numbers.

OMSA's maintenance record sucks!
OMSA's ability to provide a reliable bus service sucks!

In a few years, replace the words OMSA with Metro.

Here endith the lesson.... Closed!
 
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