The DR is Starting to Scare the Hell out of me !!!

[laurapasinifan]

I am sure many parents told their children after that event ,"if that happens, just let them have what they want"...possibly before , no one figured they would kill for the stupid phone!!!

I like to think i am macho, but i keep telling myself, if i get in a situation.where they have a gun, and i dont...take what you want....the car, the wallets, whatever...its better to go bankrupt for a few hours than to get hurt or die.

bob

 

[Identity_check]

Whatever you make out of it, but I still think if she didn't fight off the attackers, there was a good chance she would have been left unharmed. You are correct, she didn't deserve to be killed but in a situation like this, she should have let the phone go.
AZB

AZB, With due respect, you cannot blame the victim for a crime that is committed against them, people do not always act in the way that they should when a crime is being committed against them, this is due to high levels of stress and anxiety felt by the victim during the crime, stress and anxiety make people act in ways that they would not normally act, also stress and anxiety effect different people in different ways.
The only people that are to blame for this horrendous crime are the people who commited the crime.

We do indeed seem to live in a world that blames the victim, this i feel is because it is far easier to "Blame the Victim" for the crimes that are committed against them than it is to understand and resolve the problems in society that lead to these crimes being committed, or to put it another way, we do as all humans do, we seek the easy path.
Its easy to blame the poor unfortunate victim, that can be done with just a few words, a simple sentence, its far harder to try and resolve the problems in society that bring about these types of crime, thats the hard part.

We are not the victims of crime every day, we dont get mugged every day, we dont get guns thrust in our faces every day, we dont get our houses broken into evry day, so when these things happen to us we dont always act the way we should, or the way we think we should, stress, anxiety and fear take over, you get only one chance, no time to practice, so please dont blame the victim, they are the last ones to blame.

Regards,

Matt

 

[Don Juan]

See this is why the DR is starting to scare the hell out of me, the answer to question 1 does not tie in with the last statement (Good luck in our third-world nation...you'll need it) :ermm: aranoid:

I was referring to all the bureaucratic crap you must go through to get properly settled in DR. Also that, traffic and driving are horrific. Not so much about crime per se.

And why do you worry so much about crime? Crime is everywhere. You simply can't escape it! It's a craps shoot, no matter where you go! Simply follow most of the advice given on this board and you won't get victimized. It's as simply as that!

I'll tell you this, of all the places I've lived in or visited in all my years, the DR and specifically, the city of Santiago, is where I feel the freest and safest.

Stop worring about crime and give us a visit. It's not as bad as you imagine it to be!

 

[Identity_check]

I was referring to all the bureaucratic crap you must go through to get properly settled in DR. Also that, traffic and driving are horrific. Not so much about crime per se.

And why do you worry so much about crime? Crime is everywhere. You simply can't escape it! It's a craps shoot, no matter where you go! Simply follow most of the advice given on this board and you won't get victimized. It's as simply as that!

I'll tell you this, of all the places I've lived in or visited in all my years, the DR and specifically, the city of Santiago, is where I feel the freest and safest.

Stop worring about crime and give us a visit. It's not as bad as you imagine it to be!

Thanks for this reply Don Juan, seems i got my wires crossed on that earlier post.

Regards,

Matt

 

[NALs]

well it doesnt seem as bad now, but when i go out with my buddies who live here they ALWAYS take their pistols....its like more important than the wallet or car keys...

The million dollar question is: How many times have they used the gun in self defense?

Sometimes, the fear of crime is worst than crime itself!

why do you think that 5 or 6 dominicans who live here full time and are upper middle class or higher, have great houses and cars and buisnesses, and they barricade themselves because super heavy duty metal walls , with exspensive alarms, do that???.....they do it for a very real reason.

The metal walls and gates is for personal safety, BUT that is only a recent reason for having such walls/gates.

Before crime was in everyone's mind (try late 1990s and backwards) plenty of great homes were built in exclusive neighborhoods and most had rough iron gates and fences. It's a hispanic tradition, although the upper crust of American society seems to be catching on.

Towns in Connecticut such as Greenwich or New Canaan or even North Stamford are chock full of million dollar estates with rough iron gates and walls. And guess what? Aside from the dinner bandit who was recently caught after years of commiting his acts (he was referred as the dinner bandit because he would break into upper crust mansions while the family were eating dinner and rob their jewlrey and such from their main bedrooms and leave the premises without members of the family or even housekeepers noticing anything suspicious!), aside from him nothing really happens.

But, plenty of impressive homes are sorrounded by massive walls and can be accessed through elaborate iron gates, just like in Santo Domingo or Santiago and many other places!

I dont post this to really put down the country...but it is real and pretending it isnt there, is like lying.

Yes Bob, it is real.

But, sometimes tradition and current circumstances happen to blend well (ie. gated properties being a hispanic tradition, but fits well into modern security, etc).

It's important to let people know what is happening, but even more important is for people to know what are the chances its going to happen to them!

Few DR1ers have seen with their own eyes the crimes that have been reported on this website. It's mostly the "man who" types of reports that we get here and very few its a "it happened to me" types.

The rest of the fear built on this site (and in Dominican society in general) is based on pure speculation of how much worst it could actually be.

One thing for sure, their have not been a significant increase in cemetery business, because if that would have been the case, we would have heard about it or some reporter would have written about this. So, perhaps things are not as bad as the human mind tends to amplify, especially when a person is not present in a place 24/7.

The samething happens in the U.S. with suburbanites vs. urbanites. Suburban populations get reports via the news of crime in the inner cities, and their minds and lack of first hand knowledge of the real situation in the inner cities, goes off to create an image of the inner city that is worst than reality.

Do you know how many suburbanites are afraid to drive into NYC for example? I have met people in Fairfield County, Connecticut who think they will die if they were to get lost in Washington Heights or the Bronx, for example!

The power of the human mind and its amplification capabilities, especially of reports that can be sensationalized, is amazing!

-NALs

 

[Lambada]

Few DR1ers have seen with their own eyes the crimes that have been reported on this website. It's mostly the "man who" types of reports that we get here and very few its a "it happened to me" types.

The rest of the fear built on this site (and in Dominican society in general) is based on pure speculation of how much worst it could actually be.

One thing for sure, their have not been a significant increase in cemetery business, because if that would have been the case, we would have heard about it or some reporter would have written about this. So, perhaps things are not as bad as the human mind tends to amplify, especially when a person is not present in a place 24/7............

The power of the human mind and its amplification capabilities, especially of reports that can be sensationalized, is amazing!

-NALs

Love the logic Nals. Because reporters haven't written about an increase in the funeral business then it isn't as bad as we think..........:laugh:

Serious posters here are NOT sensationalising and many of us knew some of the victims personally. Ask those who live here 24/7 like Rocky, Matilda, Bushbaby, myself, Chris, m'frog etc etc. None of these people are drama queens nor are they packing up and leaving, nor do they get a perverse sort of kick out of any of it. Most of us are tired of it, the reaction tends to be 'not another one'. But we won't lie about it, either.

 

[mountainfrog]

Very Convincing View From Afar

.... rough iron gates and fences. It's a hispanic tradition...
.....reports that can be sensationalized....

Thank you so much for reassuring me that all those things I see (walls, burglar proofing, gates, electronic surveillance devices, watchdogs, watchmen, barbed wire, guns, car alarms, etc.) are only decorations, status symbols and unnecessary playthings.

I knew, I am just too close to see things correctly, it takes people from afar to have the right perspective...

m'frog

 

[cobraboy]

Thank you so much for reassuring me that all those things I see (walls, burglar proofing, gates, electronic surveillance devices, watchdogs, watchmen, barbed wire, guns, car alarms, etc.) are only decorations, status symbols and unnecessary playthings.

I knew, I am just too close to see things correctly, it takes people from afar to have the right perspective...

m'frog

All those security items I saw at your mountaintop estate were just baubles?

Unfortunately, one "cost" of joining the First World in more economic prosperity is that there is an increase in those folks who want to take it from you.

IMO, it is drugs that are the root cause of the problem.When a person is hungry, he may beg and steal for food. When an addict needs a fix, he will kill to get it. BIG difference. And the addiction to the $$$ drug sellers make is every bit as evil and demanding as the drug itself.

 

[mountainfrog]

Nallies

... just baubles?

Correct.
We refer to them as 'NAL(L)ies'.... :laugh:

m'frog

 

[qgrande]

According to El Nacional, this friday a Belgian business-owner in Sosua was killed in his house during a robbery, his son was injured but survived: El Nacional, la voz de todos
El Nacional identifies them as Roger and Marnil (Marnix?) van den Fondel (Vondel?), 69 and 40 years old. Maybe people in Sosua know them?

 

[mountainfrog]

... this friday a Belgian business-owner in Sosua was killed in his house....

See
http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/56895-interpol-takes-no-shyte.html
And:
I think it was Thursday night...

m'frog

 

[Rick Snyder]

More crime up North. Excuse me for these links but just posting that which has already been published. Not trying to alarm anyone but rather showing that which is the inevitable.

One of the main reasons I decided to live here after visiting 10 years ago was due to the lack of crime. Back then the only crime that was apparent was the assurance that if it wasn?t nailed down and locked that you stood a good chance that it would be missing in the morning.

I firmly believe that the escalation of crime here is due to drugs. When I say drugs I mean the USE of same and not the transportation of. The DR has been a bridge for drugs long before I came here to live but the usage of them is a fairly new concept.

As drugs cost money to use and the DR is such a penurious country then I think that the usage came about as drugs were introduced as payment for transportation services rendered rather then money. With the abundance of drugs now on the street rather then packaged and in route to a final destination the usage began. Those of us with any knowledge of how the usage of drugs perpetrates crime can understand what the DR is now going through.

The number of ?addicts? presently on the streets gives an almost complete assurance that you will not become a victim of a senseless crime while visiting or living here if you in fact follow the same procedures that you would follow in your own country. If you should throw caution to the wind then you increase your chances of becoming a victim.

As the ?addicts? on the streets increase, and this is assured to happen, then the possibility of you becoming a victim are increased proportionately regardless as to which barrio, section or city that you live or visit in.

As I live here and look upon that which is transpiring here in the DR I am continuously reminded of the history of the US from the mid 60?s to present. It is because of that prior knowledge that people such as me have the basic learned instincts to avoid becoming a victim. It is because of the innocence, (not yet acquired knowledge), of the local Dominicans that I feel so much pain for them in what they are now experiencing and what they are assured of experiencing as time progresses. That just happens to be the nature of drugs in any country.

Rick

 

[cobraboy]

^^^ Yup.

Hang in drug havens in the US will yeild the same results as hanging with them anywhere in the world, DR included.

 

[qgrande]

See
http://www.dr1.com/forums/living/56895-interpol-takes-no-shyte.html
And:
I think it was Thursday night...

m'frog

Thanks, I did not follow that thread closely enough, and sorry for posting what is already being discussed elsewhere.. And on Friday El Nacional wrote 'anoche', so yes, Thursday night

 

[Lambada]

^^^ Yup.

Hang in drug havens in the US will yeild the same results as hanging with them anywhere in the world, DR included.

Just a bit of local knowledge here. The last 3 killings in Puerto Plata took place not in drug 'havens' (i.e. barrios which are known puntos) but in two very public places. The one which Rocky saw the results of, described on the other thread, was on the main highway just opposite Urb. Atlantica at approx. 7.45 pm.

Yesterday's one was even more 'public'. This happened just after midday just opposite the sea front (Malecon). I was out & about in Puerto Plata at the time - the Duarte day celebrations had just ended and hordes of schoolkids, who had finished in the procession, were dispersing. As per custom, after the celebrations, the older kids always walk down to the Malecon to hang with their friends.......... So not only was the location public but there were lots of kids around. Fortunately, in this instance, no one else got hurt.
Puerto Plata Digital

It seems to some of us who live in PP that without an active Fiscalaria taking down the puntos, what the police are doing is sitting back and allowing these different drug gangs to take each other out. Or reducing the competition, or whatever you want to call it. But there can be no lack of information as to where the puntos are and who runs them, even the mobile ones. Everyone knows!! That is why arrests are made so quickly: the alleged killers of yesterdays victim got picked up this morning.
Bienvenidos al Hoy Digital

The advice to tourists and new residents to stay out of the barrios, whilst sound, is no longer sufficient. The location of yesterdays broad daylight extermination is very near the breadshop which many here have heard me mention. The same breadshop which was near the street corner where I saw crack being cooked in broad daylight (I posted about this on another thread). That street corner is no longer a punto; it stopped about a month ago. The advice to tourists and new residents now has to include being alert to what is going on around you. Statistically, the chances of getting caught up in something like this are very very slim. Probably because most of the hits are deliberate targetting by people who know how to shoot & don't want to involve anyone except their target. My guess is that if some tourists happened to walk by at the same time, the hit man would prefer to wait rather than have the hassle of unintended foreign victims......but if someone tells you to move quickly and looks as if they mean it, then it would be sensible to comply.........

Again, I repeat, the chances of this happening to you are very very slim. But they are no longer non-existent.

 

[NALs]

Thank you so much for reassuring me that all those things I see (walls, burglar proofing, gates, electronic surveillance devices, watchdogs, watchmen, barbed wire, guns, car alarms, etc.) are only decorations, status symbols and unnecessary playthings.

I knew, I am just too close to see things correctly, it takes people from afar to have the right perspective...

m'frog

Like I said before, the fear of crime sometimes is worst than crime itself!

Why don't you take a trip to Santo Domingo and notice those 20+ stories apartment towers.

Notice how most don't have setbacks, they are straight buildings filled with middle/upper class apartments.

Notice how SOME residents felt the need to put bars on their windows EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE IN THE 10TH, 11TH, 12TH.... 20TH FLOOR!!!!

What else can explain such ridiculous action? No, I'm not referring to balconies or even apartment windows near balconies, but rather windows in completely flat sections of the buildings, many times over 10 stories tall, and yet, some people needed to have all their windows with bars to "feel" safe!

Unless theives are growing wings and know how to levitate 20 stories above the ground, I have a feeling the FEAR OF CRIME is worst than crime itself!

Here, take a look below. That building is located in Piantini (I believe) and notice the windows on the 4rth floor.... bars from end to end. Now, tell me something.... how on earth will anyone attempt to break into an apartment through windows that are not only 4 stories above the ground, but also on a vertical facade with no setbacks to allow a person to properly stand and do their work in attempting to break in!

I can understand putting bars around the terrace and windows within reach of the terrace, but explain the situation below:

Fear of crime is worst than crime itself!

Image source: Flickr

-NALs

 

[Rick Snyder]

Nal's at times you crack me up, hehehe. A cat burglar you could never be. It is very apparent that your knowledge about B&E is very limited. Don't take that the wrong way as it is understandable with someone with your background. What's that old adage? .... "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure"?

 

[shadInToronto]

... It is very apparent that your knowledge about B&E is very limited.

Rick, I'm a student of life and am always willing to learn ... care to share your knowledge and expertise in the aforementioned profession?

 

[Rick Snyder]

I'm sorry SIT but that was way back in my youth and I would just as soon forget that part of my life. Growing up in Washington DC back in the 50's was an educational experience and though I don't use that portion of my experiences I will admit that it has helped me tremendously throughout life to better equip me in how to combat those that may have the criminal element in mind as they go through life.

Rick

 

[NALs]

Again, I repeat, the chances of this happening to you are very very slim. But they are no longer non-existent.

Lambada, you are awesome!

That final statement in your last post is something MANY DR1ers forget to include in their "crime in DR" posts.

I don't know if they conveniently or subconsciously forget to include such statement, but such statement makes your post more realistic than anything else on most threads regarding this issue.

-NALs