The Haitian Occupation of the Dominican Republic

[mountainannie]

We have to bring in a bit of French history here..

1. Slavery was first abolished in France in 1794, then definitively abolished in 1848.

On 4 February 1794, the First Republic (Convention) voted for the abolition of slavery in all French colonies. The abolition decree stated that "the Convention declares the slavery of the Blacks abolished in all the colonies; consequently, all men, irrespective of colour, living in the colonies are French citizens and will enjoy all the rights provided by the Constitution."

Restored by the Consulate in 1802, slavery was definitively abolished in 1848 by the Second Republic, on Victor Schoelcher?s initiative.

France and the abolition of slavery: slavery was first abolished in France in 1794, then definitively abolished in 1848 - France in the United Kingdom - La France au Royaume-Uni

So during the time that the Island was under French rule, slavery was abolished then reinstated. This is why Toussaint was legally welcomed and recognized as a legitamate leader, because he was a FREE man under Republican France. But under Napolean, slavery had already been reestablished in Martinique. There was no overt mention of Napolean's intentions to reestablish slavery in SAN DOMINGUE as Haiti was called.. but the decree by Ferrand made the Emperor's intention's clear.

 

[Chip]

I was a few pages back when paraphrasing St. Mery (which paraphrased Valverde in the first place):

Mixed race = 85,000
Whites = 25,000
Blacks = 15,000
Total = 125,000

26,000 of this people lived in Santiago, 25,000 in Santo Domingo and the rest throughout the country. Due to how easy it was for a slave to gain his/her freedom (and marry up, so to speak), Valverde asked for more discriminatory laws on the part of the Spanish Crown, not only curtailing the ways in which slaves could win their freedom, but also penalizing the mixing of the races. All of that would be implemented in Cuba, once the sugar impetus transferred there after the destruction of Saint Domingue.

I expect MA will find these numbers "inconvenient" because they lend little credibility of the Haitian invasion of the DR to "free" slaves.

 

[mountainannie]

I was a few pages back when paraphrasing St. Mery (which paraphrased Valverde in the first place):

Mixed race = 85,000
Whites = 25,000
Blacks = 15,000
Total = 125,000

26,000 of this people lived in Santiago, 25,000 in Santo Domingo and the rest throughout the country. Due to how easy it was for a slave to gain his/her freedom (and marry up, so to speak), Valverde asked for more discriminatory laws on the part of the Spanish Crown, not only curtailing the ways in which slaves could win their freedom, but also penalizing the mixing of the races. All of that would be implemented in Cuba, once the sugar impetus transferred there after the destruction of Saint Domingue.

OK Can we assume that by the Blacks.. we can also assume "slave"?

 

[mountainannie]

I expect MA will find these numbers "inconvenient" because they lend little credibility of the Haitian invasion of the DR to "free" slaves.

No , the Haitians were worried about their OWN necks! 600,000 of them!

 

[Naked_Snake]

OK Can we assume that by the Blacks.. we can also assume "slave"?

Yes. On the West Indian scenario to be black was to be a slave more than in the US scenario. Another point of comparison is that, while having a 100 slaves a person in the US was considered rich, in the West Indies (and in these, in the Saint Dominguan scenario) a wealthy person was considered such when he/she had a 1,000 under his command.

 

[delite]

Yes. On the West Indian scenario to be black was to be a slave more than in the US scenario. Another point of comparison is that, while having a 100 slaves a person in the US was considered rich, in the West Indies (and in these, in the Saint Dominguan scenario) a wealthy person was considered such when he/she had a 1,000 under his command.

Generally speaking true, but we must also highlight that in Jamaica and Surinam, many blacks fought their masters...British/Dutch, respectively, then ran into the mountains for safety. They were called,"maroons" and they led lives quite different than slaves because they were free and their culture flourished without conforming to that of their masters.

However, your point is taken.

 

[Naked_Snake]

Generally speaking true, but we must also highlight that in Jamaica and Surinam, many blacks fought their masters...British/Dutch, respectively, then ran into the mountains for safety. They were called,"maroons" and they led lives quite different than slaves because they were free and their culture flourished without conforming to that of their masters.

However, your point is taken.

Imagine, the wealth of a person was measured more on the value of his/her captives than on the hogsheads his/her plantation produced. A person like Washington would have been considered poor on those standards, something to ponder.

 

[K-Mel]

OK Can we assume that by the Blacks.. we can also assume "slave"?

Actually a good portion of these 15000 slaves was also mulattoes, since the slave trade on the spanish side of la hispaniola was not to be compared with the other spanish islands ( PR & Cuba).

One example was Jose Campo Tavares, who supported Dessalines in the Cibao in 1803, was an ex-slave and also a mulatto.

He also participated with his Santiago squad ( composed with mulattoes and black Dominican soldiers) to the 1805 Haitian attack.

Tavares and his dominican soldiers were kicked out from the Cibao by the French in 1804.

Buenaventura Baez was also the son of a slave, looking at his complexion it seems that she was also a mulata.

In Haiti, Santo Domingo, PR or Cuba, many mulattoes were slaves, however generally speaking the way for emancipation was easier for some of them compared to black slaves.

 

[delite]

Imagine, the wealth of a person was measured more on the value of his/her captives than on the hogsheads his/her plantation produced. A person like Washington would have been considered poor on those standards, something to ponder.

Its strange but factual. Well the financing of the slave trade was bank rolled predominantly by Jews. They owned most of the vessels, employed the overseers, insurance underwriters and auctioneers. Why do you think the punishment meted out to a runaway slave was so severe? He/she was reducing the wealth of their masters. Some of them even went into receivership and had to sell their remaining "commodity" to settle outstanding debts.

The trading of humans enriched many including Lloyd's of London, JP Morgan, etc.
Oh George Washington held slaves also.

 

[K-Mel]

Its strange but factual. Well the financing of the slave trade was bank rolled predominantly by Jews. They owned most of the vessels, employed the overseers, insurance underwriters and auctioneers. Why do you think the punishment meted out to a runaway slave was so severe? He/she was reducing the wealth of their masters. Some of them even went into receivership and had to sell their remaining "commodity" to settle outstanding debts.

The trading of humans enriched many including Lloyd's of London, JP Morgan, etc.
Oh George Washington held slaves also.

Watch out bro, AIPAC or B'nai B'rith might run after you lol.
Once upon a time Wall street was a slave market.
G.Washington own black slaves but also white indentured servants.
In fact all the discovery of the new world ( at the beginning of the colonization) was mainly financed by conversos ( those who financed Colombus) and Genoan Bankers. Ferdinand and Isabel were broke, this is why native Indians and African were press gang as slaves to find gold, silver etc,etc : pay back the Spanish royalty debt asap to the bankers of that period.

One of the first bank involved in the slave trade, was the Welsers bank, from Germany.

 

[Naked_Snake]

One of the first bank involved in the slave trade, was the Welsers bank, from Germany.

Those were the same ones that financed Charles V election to the throne of the Holy Roman Empire (1st Reich). In return, the new emperor granted them the Venezuelan territory to exploit. Things were going good for them, until their repeated abuses against the Caracas Amerindian tribe (from which the territory took its name initially) rebelled and Spanish troops had to take control from the Welsers' overseers again.

 

[delite]

Watch out bro, AIPAC or B'nai B'rith might run after you lol.
Once upon a time Wall street was a slave market.
G.Washington own black slaves but also white indentured servants.
In fact all the discovery of the new world ( at the beginning of the colonization) was mainly financed by conversos ( those who financed Colombus) and Genoan Bankers. Ferdinand and Isabel were broke, this is why native Indians and African were press gang as slaves to find gold, silver etc,etc : pay back the Spanish royalty debt asap to the bankers of that period.

One of the first bank involved in the slave trade, was the Welsers bank, from Germany.

They couldn't and wouldn't because that would be erasing historical facts! The Jews were the principal financiers of the slave trade.

Were Jews involved in the Atlantic Slave trade? - Yahoo! Answers

 

[mountainannie]

It has been very interesting for me to pause a bit and specutate at this time what might have happened

if the Haitians had not actually defeated the French , aided by the British aand the Spanish

here.. from the wiki for background


By 1792, slaves controlled a third of the island. The success of the slave rebellion caused the newly elected Legislative Assembly in France to realize it was facing an ominous situation. To protect France's economic interests, the Assembly granted civil and political rights to free men of color in the colonies[citation needed] in March 1792.[23] Countries throughout Europe as well as the United States were shocked by the decision, but the Assembly was determined to stop the revolt. Apart from granting rights to the free people of color, the Assembly dispatched 6,000 French soldiers to the island.[24]
Meanwhile, in 1793, France declared war on Great Britain. The white planters in Saint Domingue made agreements with Great Britain to declare British sovereignty over the islands. Spain, who controlled the rest of the island of Hispaniola, would also join the conflict and fight with Great Britain against France. The Spanish forces invaded Saint Domingue and were joined by the slave forces. For most of the conflict, the British and Spanish supplied the rebels with food, ammunition, arms, medicine, naval support, and military advisors. By August 1793, there were only 3,500 French soldiers on the island. To prevent military disaster, the French commissioner Sonthonax freed the slaves in his jurisdiction.
The decision was confirmed and extended by the National Convention, the first elected Assembly of the First Republic (1792–1804), on the 4th of February 1794, under the leadership of Maximilien Robespierre. It abolished slavery by law in France and all its colonies and granted civil and political rights to all black men in the colonies. Despite racial tensions in Saint Domingue, the French revolutionary government at the time welcomed abolition with a show of idealism and optimism. The emancipation of slaves was viewed as an example of liberty for other countries, much as the American Revolution was meant to serve as the first of many liberation movements. Danton, one of the Frenchmen present at the meeting of the National Convention, expressed this sentiment:
"representatives of the French people, until now our decrees of liberty have been selfish, and only for ourselves. But today we proclaim it to the universe, and generations to come will glory in this decree; we are proclaiming universal liberty...We are working for future generations; let us launch liberty into the colonies; the English are dead, today."[25] Haitian Revolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and then had NOT invaded this part when slavery was reinstated. ... or if they had been severely defeated.. If France had really mounted a huge garrison and fought? If they had not been decimated by yellow fever.. what if.. what if.. there had been loyalty to the French flag? to the Emperor? or some such. Anyway... I was just thinking of Martinique and Guadeloupe.

France evidently traded all of Canada for Martinique (guess that sugar.. was REALLY important! more so than beaver furs!)...

Martinique and Guadeloupe still belong to France. They are not considered colonies but Overseas Departments.

 

[mountainannie]

wait i have lost the who is on first ... it is the White planters and the British

and the Slaves and the Spanish

against the French? in the western San Domingue? in 1792

top of the third..

slaves 5 French 0

aiiiii se fue la luz!

 

[delite]

wait i have lost the who is on first ... it is the White planters and the British

and the Slaves and the Spanish

against the French? in the western San Domingue? in 1792

top of the third..

slaves 5 French 0

aiiiii se fue la luz!

What the hell!!!

 

[mountainannie]

ok got it, I think

wiki quote
Meanwhile, in 1793, France declared war on Great Britain. The white planters in Saint Domingue made agreements with Great Britain to declare British sovereignty over the islands.



So, because the French assembly.. the Revolutionary Assembly (Marie Antoinette, Les Mis, let em eat cake, all that) had freed all the slaves,. The WHITE Planters.. on the FRENCH side. essentially gave their loyalty to Great Britain, slitt a monarchy, still slave holding (and the strongest navy.. defeat of the Spanish Armada, 1588).


then
They were joined by Spain.. also fighting France..

ok ..

wiki quote

Spain, who controlled the rest of the island of Hispaniola, would also join the conflict and fight with Great Britain against France. The Spanish forces invaded Saint Domingue and were joined by the slave forces. For most of the conflict, the British and Spanish supplied the rebels with food, ammunition, arms, medicine, naval support, and military advisors.

ok got it.. Spain, Britian and Slaves against France.. that is where all the fancy uniforms and ammon came from..

By August 1793, there were only 3,500 French soldiers on the island. To prevent military disaster, the French commissioner Sonthonax freed the slaves in his jurisdiction.

so the slaves were declared free in Paris in March 1792 and finally freed in Haiti in August 1793.

This explains the presence of the British ships that were blockading the harbor of Santo Domingo later on when Ferrand was beseiged there.

 

[mountainannie]

do you not play baseball?

do you not know the joke who is on first, who is on second?

can we not lighten things up here and have a bit of fun?

this is the DR// and I have just had some very good coffee....

what is the score? Who is winning? I had completely lost track of who was fighting whom. That was all. It gets so very quiet .. I just joke with myself.

you will come to know my flights of fancy.

 

[delite]

do you not play baseball?

do you not know the joke who is on first, who is on second?

can we not lighten things up here and have a bit of fun?

this is the DR// and I have just had some very good coffee....

what is the score? Who is winning? I had completely lost track of who was fighting whom. That was all. It gets so very quiet .. I just joke with myself.

you will come to know my flights of fancy.

Oooookkaaaaaaayyyyy, I guess

 

[AlterEgo]

Oooookkaaaaaaayyyyy, I guess

LOL delite, how old are you?? Annie, we're showing our age.......

Who's on first: Who's on First? - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[mountainannie]

This really clears some things up for me..

Toussaint was first in the pay of the Spanish king.. against the French.. then when the Spanish lost the war, he was in the pay of the French army.. And then was captured and sent back to France .. to die in prison .. regime change in homeland. So the slave rebellion.. their army was backed and finanaced to some extant certainly.. by the British and then by Spain .

But by the time of Dessaline.. I there was no more funding. Certainly no help from Spain. And Britain had no chance. So that was the basis for the request for so much money from the citizens of Sanitago.

So except for counting and stuff.

I am pretty clear on this first Haitian incursion onto the Western side except for border maps.

Does anyone have them? I know that Hinche and Oounaminthe and maybe even Mirebalais were on the Spanish side. Was this ceded to the French at this time or later on?

actually a link would be great


I guess I am at