Things are NOT all that good as "some" say

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donP

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Head Shaking

... nevertheless I'm sure you are aware that more than 75% of all expat on the island are here on a over stayed visa.
Where can I look up that number to be true?

.... from the very first day they arrive they start breaking the same laws that would get any Dominican thrown out of any gilded country up north.
Although this may be the case for some criminals to whom the country offers refuge.
The vast majority are law abiding people who - even after years - shake their heads about how openly and frequently the law is broken here without much consequence.
Again, those Dominicans who get deported from the US (each fortnight about 100 of them) "get thrown out" because they probably simply behaved there as they would usually do here.
Antisocial persons here and there.


Of course you know, the right to vote only come with the legal standing of being in the country legally.
No, it does not.
It only comes with citizenship.

donP
 

Taino808

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Where can I look up that number to be true?

Just read it here on DR1, most people on the Island are "snow birds" you know getting away from the cold up north, but the problem is they arrive on a two or three month visa and end up staying here for years on end. Don't act like you don't know this.


Although this may be the case for some criminals to whom the country offers refuge.
The vast majority are law abiding people who - even after years - shake their heads about how openly and frequently the law is broken here without much consequence.

Yes your absolutely right, by Dominicans et all, but these laws aren't the ones I'm referring to in my post above, and you know this, so stop with the confusion act. I'm talking about Dominicans being thrown out of countries up north for over staying their visas as expats do here so openly, Not criminal activities.


No, it does not.
It only comes with citizenship.

donP

And citizenship come by way of expats legalizing their residential status, this is, not living on the Island on an over stayed visa.
 
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bermyboy

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If the shoe doesn't fit, then don't wear it and move on. Glad to hear that you've put on your "big girl panties a long time ago", If my comment "living on borrowed time" doesn't pertain to you then I commend you on this, nevertheless I'm sure you are aware that more than 75% of all expat on the island are here on a over stayed visa.

My comment was directed at them, sorry for including you among this group But you do know that this is the same group of whiny people that come here, expect to find a developed nation and have the same benefits as back home, but from the very first day they arrive they start breaking the same laws that would get any Dominican thrown out of any gilded country up north.

Also it is not my wish to have you compromise your sentiments by asking you to change your point of view. However, as you very well may already know, change only comes by way of educated voting. It is this that we are lacking in this country, not whining people from abroad. So please, you and any other expat already calling the DR home, help us by voting out these corrupt government officials. Of course you know, the right to vote only come with the legal standing of being in the country legally.

HMMMM I agree there are whiny people that expect the DR change for them I am not one of those people and they irritate me trust me. but lets talk about Domincans in othe countries ie Washington Heights although I have never been there my buddy who lives near by was telling me about it just last week and this is what he said
Washington Heights is just like the DR crazy the people do what the want fire hydrants open all summer long musuc blasting out of the colmados all the craziness that is the DR but in NY. So how are Domincans adapting there please tell me truth? Domincans (not all of them) are into shady crap there on the east coast heck where ever they go they are into shady crap they are getting deported back here to the DR where they get into even more shady dealings! Ill say this again Argentina is making a visa requirement for Domincans why ? Becausr they are there running prostitution and drug rings generally getting in to trouble. Go to Antigua most if the hookers there are Domincan same as Turks and Caicos, Aruba , Trinidad and other Carribbean countries. Idiots from my country have married young hookers from sosua and Boca chica taken them back home to make a whore a house wife and what are the girls doing ?? You bet they making a good bit of money there plying thier trade because guys will pay good for a piece there (not all the girls asre doing this ). Im saying all this is that yes some expats here are shady but most just want to come for the sun fun booze and DR life! Because you are a Domincan citizen now doesnt make you Dominican oh no you will always be an extranjero dont you forget it either!!!! There is nothing we can do as expats to change government. The only people that can make a differance in this country are ACTUAL DOMINICANS!!!
 

donP

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Matilda

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For information on the number of foreigners and their status, read the DR1 news:

DR1 - Daily News Wednesday, 18 July 2012
More than 200 foreigners hiding in DR
Information obtained by Hoy newspaper states that international federal organizations together with the support of Dominican state intelligence and the Armed Forces are looking for more than 200 foreigners with ties to crimes carried out in their own countries and who are believed to have taken refuge in the Dominican Republic.

According to sources, of those who are sought more than 70% are Europeans. The intelligence services are also looking for Americans, Puerto Ricans, Columbians, Venezuelans, Jamaicans, Mexicans, Peruvians and some from Curacao.

The fugitives are sought for having deserted from the military and federal organizations, financial crimes, for murder cases and cases of sexual violation of minors, former government officials and drug traffickers. They said that all of the security forces working at the airport, the frontier and tourist areas have been alerted and have the documents of most of the foreigners being looked for in the country by the federal agencies.

In addition, intelligence agents are in the different tourist areas, especially the north and east, in pursuit of the fugitives, who they believe are living here using false names.

Buscan extranjeros refugiados en Rep?blica Dominicana - Hoy Digital

and

DR1 - Daily News Wednesday, 25 July 2012

New residency requirements in the Dominican Republic
In the last ten years, 86,774 foreigners, mostly Americans, Haitians, Cubans, Columbians and Spaniards, have obtained residency in the Dominican Republic, as reported in Hoy.

According to the Miguel Roman Garcia, director of the section for immigration control at the Immigration Department, these residencies, both temporary and permanent, are granted after state intelligence agencies and the National Drug Control Department (DNCD) review the applications, a process that can take 3 to 6 months and cost up to RD$12,000.

During the last ten years, the numbers of foreigners obtaining residency have been as follows: Americans 14,217; Haitians, 9,563; Cubans, 7,387; Colombians, 6,494; Spaniards, 6,145; Chinese, 4,575; Italians, 4,208; French, 3,633; Germans, 3,345; Canadians, 2,141; Swiss, 1,557; Argentinians, 1,187; Brazilians, 1,022; British, 819; Chileans, 721; Ecuadorians, 649; Salvadorians, 571; Belgians, 504; South Koreans, 481; Dutch, 473; Costa Ricans, 420, and Guatemalans, 406.

Residencies have also been granted to citizens from Afghanistan, Angola, Albania, Andorra, Armenia, Burundi, Benin, Bahrain, Belarus, Bouvet Island, Ivory Coast, Djibouti, Western Sahara, Ghana, Gambia, Georgia, Cambodia, Jordan, Kuwait, Kazakhstan, Japan and other countries.

Foreigners with temporary residency who wish to obtain permanent documentation will be able to apply for this after having renewed their temporary residency annually for four years at a cost of RD$3,000 per year plus RD$500 for each month delay in renewal.

In order to change the residency from temporary to permanent, it is necessary to go through the same procedure and pay the same amounts as when obtaining the temporary residency. Immigration will decide whether or not to grant the permanent residency.

Article 42 of the Law 258-04 states that Immigration can cancel permanent residencies if it is determined that they were obtained with false declarations or false documents. The cancelation of permanent residency means the loss of immigration status and the foreigner will need to regularize the status or leave the country.

Migraci?n otorga m?s de 80 mil residencias a extranjeros - Hoy Digital

Matilda
 

bermyboy

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I say get those paedophiles!!!!!!!! and let them get a little prison justice ! HMMM I bet we all know what the Puerto ricans , Colombians Venezualans and Jamiacans are hiding from and what for LOL
 

bermyboy

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200 forgeniers hiding out here compared to the 100s of Domincans getting deprted back here and why are the forigeners able to hide here ?? Because of the corruption !
 

NotLurking

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NotLurking:

It's a matter of determining ones level of "most corrupt" in the index.
Agreed. Obviously our tolerance level is different.

I submit that being ranked as more corrupt than approximately 70% of the other countries compared, qualifies the DR as one of the "most corrupt" and that is what I said...."one of the most corrupt." That is not a position of bias, as much as it is one of interpretation and fact based on those rankings.

playacaribe2, by your same logic, if one is ranked in the top 30% of anything then one is, "one of the most..." in that category. I find this a bit difficult to envision and at odds with real life.

Now Pichardo might spin it as...there are way more countries corrupt than the DR....and he would be correct...if you only wanted to look below your rank.

What Pichardo will or will not do is totally up to him, however, if we are discussing most corrupt countries from a list, logic and common sense would lead you to: A) look at the whole list & B) compare the rankings of countries both above & below your country's current listing.


If you scored approximately 30 on an exam of 100 points, I doubt that would constitute a passing or acceptable grade.

So if you score in the top 30% you are one of the most intelligent in your class? (of course I am applying your logic here)

Taking the rankings in total, I fail to see how anyone, except spin doctors, could come up with a different conclusion....but I would certainly be open to suggestions.

I took the whole ranking into consideration and I didn't come up with the same conclusion you did. I certainly think the DR has corruption and many things need fixing or improvement but I don't think it is, "one of the most corrupt" countries on the planet. I believe that my 9 years of posting here on DR1 disqualifies me from being a Spin Doctor.

NotLurking
 

Taino808

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A foreigner can be a legal resident without being a citizen.

donP


Why do you keep insisting on scrambling my words and making it sound as though I've said something else?

My comment was directed at "Keepcoming", her concern was that corrupt government officials are at fault for the many woes in the country. To which I merely asked her and any other expat to help us get rid of all corrupt government officials by voting them out of office. This as you may already know could only be achieved by having any and all expat already calling the DR home vote along side us to get rid of them, of course they would have to leave their "borrowed time" mentality (over stayed visas) and become "legal citizens".
 

bob saunders

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"talk is cheap?" what are you talking about?

The fact is that the very vast majority of us are underachievers... Yes, even your fictional john gault. And no amount of "look what i have achieved" chest-thumping braggadocio can change that. But i'll make an exception for those of you who cagan bizcochitos y mean pepsi cola.

didn't answer the question, how liberal of you.
 

cobraboy

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Very cold indeed! And I wonder if that's an "objectivist" take on things, you know, from the Ayn Rand school of "How to Be Selfish."

No one gets "there" by their lonesome. Some benefit from "accidents of birth," while others are born with a silver spoon in their mouths. Even the great Jackie Robinson needed help, but he gets credit for "breaking the color barrier in MLB." Gates, Jobs, Clive Sinclair, Obama, Lincoln, Reagan, Marichal, Phelps, Jordan, Larry Bird, Ichiro, Can?, Jeff Koons, Letterman, The Who, The Fab Four, the Bard, Crocodile Dundee, Lula, Evita, Tom, Dick, Harry... they all needed some help. There ain't no self-made success stories. No siree. Even if you print your own legal tender, still have to invent ink and paper and stuff. NO. ONE. PERIOD.

"Oh, but those poor Dominicans could've done what I did: I went to Concordia." Oh, yeah, some are also born with a silver foot in their mouth.

Dislike away, but that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. NO. ONE. PERIOD.
This sounds like a "You didn't build that" moment.:cheeky:

Usually people who believe that never "built" anything for themselves. They tend to be the folks who work for others, the gubmint or live off a teat someone else created.

You seem to have a lack of understanding of Objectivism and/or Libertarianism. You aren't the first, others have come here preaching strong mocking, disparaging opinions on those subjects while understanding not one thing about either beyond what someone has *told* them; Ludwig von Mises called such people "Useful Innocents." Neither Objectivists nor Libertarians believe in anarchy or NO gubmint.

While, yes, some come from backgrounds more favorable for success-be it economic or genetic (specifically IQ, the ability to learn and retain, lack of mental pathologies preventing the application of such and free of propensity toward addiction), they are not singularly reasons for success. Far from it.

And everyone in the US has equal access to the same resources provided by the common infrastructure created through gubmint contracts we have recently heard so much about. And for which "top" income earners and eeeevil wealthy paid a disproportionate amount of their labor and acquired capital to fund.

That is, no doubt, an equalizer.

Each of us has 2 great equalizers that gubmint didn't create, precious commodities that defies wealth, social status, geography, heritage and economics:

  • Time. Each human on the planet has the same 24 hour day to work with.
  • Associations. Each of us decides who we associate with. This includes family.

Maybe I've been lucky my entire life (I define "luck" as the intersection of preparation and opportunity). Maybe I've lived a charmed life and have been blessed with being surrounded by some amazingly successful people. But I have observed in my life that there exists some sort of common cause-->effect in those successful people: how they spend their time, who they associate with and their tolerance for delayed gratification.

How we choose to spend our time, and who we choose to freely associate with is, by far, a greater predictor and influencer of personal success than any road, bridge, teacher or gubmint bureaucrat ever could be.

We each have just 24 hours in a day. We get to choose how to use it. There are no do-overs, and no trial lawyers to file a tort to recover damages for it's improper use. Some choose 8 hrs. in economic pursuit, 8 hrs. sleeping and 8 hrs. recreating. This is their life, 8 hrs. of required economic fulfillment and vacation pre-funding and 16 hours of self-gratification. This is the life that the vast majority of First Worlders choose.

I don't know one really successful person who lives like that. The successful people I know have NEVER worked an 8-hour day striving for success, nor spent 2/3 of their existence on self-gratification. There are few lines between their economic pursuits and self-gratifications, the lines are blurred or don't exist until well into their self-actualization years.

Who do you think will be more successful: a chain-smoking alcoholic expat telling tall tales to anyone within earshot of his barstool, or a solid workaholic expat like rubio-higuey? Who would you rather associate with? Yeah, I know, trick question...:cheeky:

Most people choose to associate with people like themselves. It's easy. And defining. It's rare when a work-a-day type hangs with a highly successful person, mainly because the successful person chooses to not allocate their time in that association. And vice versa. They are just too different in thought processes.

Some call it snobbery. I call it selective time and association allocation. I can choose to associate with successful people learning from them and sharing information for problem-solving and project growth, or I can associate with people whose focus is recreation, self-gratification and/or condemning and talking trash about more successful people. The two universes rarely overlap.

Alvin Toffler wrote Future Shock in 1970. He described the "future" we are now living in with amazing accuracy. But the essence of his book centered on three primary points:
  1. Like Newton's Law, for each increase in "High Tech" there must be an equal "Hi Touch" societal adjustment,
  2. "High Touch" social adjustments will come with great stress because they require a non-linear learning curve that will not be intuitive, and
  3. If one wants to move through this learning curve successfully they will have to leave behind many comfortable social and geographical associations and embrace new ones.

But I also understand jealousy and the Class Warfare mentality. There are many who use both for the purpose of acquiring political power. Many non-achievers are easily seduced when someone gives them a "it's not your fault, you're a victim" Excuse Card. And this card gets played forward.

I understand the need, borne through jealousy and a realization of ones underachievement due to misallocation of time, association and gratification resources, to demean others who are successful and to join a mob tearing them down.

Virtually every successful person I know went through years of delayed gratification. I know I spent years slugging through grad school, living like a poor student until almost 30, driving an old beater I barely kept alive week-to-week, often eating popcorn for dinner, going a day or so without sleep, dressing like a refugee...while my "friends" mocked me, drove new cars (financed, of course), had fancy threads, partied on Friday nights and watched the latest, coolest TV shows...when I didn't even have a TV. My story is hardly uncommon. And I had it easier than my med school friends.

I don't understand the need to tear down successful people. Once upon a time in America we admired the successful, we praised the philanthropic, we sought to associate with their success. We named streets and parks after them and gave them "keys to the city." That was once the American Dream: the reward for unbridled achievement unrestrained by society and gubmint based on risk and effort.

Now an element mocks them and ridicules their achievement through innovation, drive, dedication to a task, delayed gratification all at great personal risk.

If roads and bridges and teachers were the real keys to success, the 1% wouldn't exist. They'd be the 99%.

But that's not how wealth is created.
 

cobraboy

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No, I have not read it. Why read about becoming more selfish?

So, I guess it could be called Atlas Snubbed.
I chuckle when someone expresses opinions on a book while never having read it. You aren't the first.

It tells me much about that person: they make judgements on issues with little to no knowledge, and are too lazy to get information for themselves.

AS is not about greed and selfishness.

It's about how society punishes the Producers, the price of innovation and success extracted by the Looters.
 
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playacaribe2, by your same logic, if one is ranked in the top 30% of anything then one is, "one of the most..." in that category. I find this a bit difficult to envision and at odds with real life.

Good analogy. Lert us use that then. My logic is if you are in the top 1/3 of a category...lets say class rank in school, I would classify you as one of the "most" sucessful in that endeavor. If you are in the bottom third you would be classified as one of most unsuccessful/least unsuccessful in that endeavor. The other 1/3 would rank as average/middle of the road.

What Pichardo will or will not do is totally up to him, however, if we are discussing most corrupt countries from a list, logic and common sense would lead you to: A) look at the whole list & B) compare the rankings of countries both above & below your country's current listing.

That is exactly what I did....and my opinion does not change. According to the rankings the DR is "one of the most corrupt" countries in the survey. If you believe it should be called something different, I am open to your suggestions.
So if you score in the top 30% you are one of the most intelligent in your class? (of course I am applying your logic here)

Yes! How would you extrapolate/categorize being in the top 30%?

I took the whole ranking into consideration and I didn't come up with the same conclusion you did. I certainly think the DR has corruption and many things need fixing or improvement but I don't think it is, "one of the most corrupt" countries on the planet. I believe that my 9 years of posting here on DR1 disqualifies me from being a Spin Doctor.

Fair enough. We interpret the data differently. However, I still believe if you are in the bottom 30% of the corruption index...then you are "one of the most corrupt."

Respectfully,
Playacaribe2
 
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Criss Colon

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Chip has a really great idea!!!
In his post,#303,he says that the only way to make things "Better" for the "people" here is with "Investing",and "Development"!
Trouble with chips "ILL-Logic", is that the ONLY "PEOPLE" that his idea would help, is those who are already "Los Ricos",and DRgov. "Hacks",and those laundering their "Dirty Laundry" here!
It does little,or nothing, to help the "Poor PEOPLE"!!!!
STUPID ME, after living here since 1995,and visiting since 1986, I had the misguided idea that what is needed to make things "Better" for all the Dominican "PEOPLE:,WAS:
Better teaches/education,including uniforms,books and supplies,(Many children of the poor can't afford "Free" education,because the can't afford those "Extras")Better Health Care,better Government,judiciary,honest police and military, nutritian,and MOST important of all,BETTER,"Mystery Meat" in the Salami!
"Somehow",I know that
chips idea will "Win Out"!
"If You Ain't Rich,you have to dig a ditch!"
OR,if you are young,pretty,AND poor,you can become a "- - - - -".
I can't spell "Hoar",but it rhymes with "POOR".
This IS the DR after all!
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC
 
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the gorgon

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cobraboy informs us


Time. Each human on the planet has the same 24 hour day to work with.
Associations. Each of us decides who we associate with. This includes family.

each of us decides who we associate with. really! and at precisely what stage of life do we acquire the capability to do just that? does some 8 year old kid from the barrio get to associate with the Brugal family? if he does get to do so, later on in life, how does it erase the negatives that he digests in his early formative stages of life, when he is surrounded by a social ecosystem that manifests the worst self destructive traits known to mankind? what does he do, at eight years old, when the role model for his barrio is the drug dealer with the Lexus? does he make the conscious decision to pack his meagre belongings, leave home, and seek more positive associations? besides, this notion of being able to choose one?s friends is very limited in application, and does not lead to the egalitarian outcomes that cobraboy seems to imagine. there are people , in all countries of the world, who have a leg up on others, simply because of who they, or their family, is. George Bush, the younger, has a better chance of getting into Yale than i do, even if my SAT is higher. that chance is called GHW Bush. so, spare us the simplistics of some notion of potential egalitarianism, sabotaged by ?genetics?, among other things. the Bell Curve might be attractive to you, as an explanatory dynamic for social inequality, but is highly insufficient to tell us why a guy with a 95 IQ gets into Harvard over a guy with 160.
 

the gorgon

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you see, cobraboy, there are people who believe that we are all able to make rational choices, and, if we do not, it is because we have elected to be irrational. that is simplistic, beyond discussion. some people are born with qualities which are far different from similarly situated people, and that explains the notion of the Black Sheep of a family. not everyone is disposed to the same behaviors, and it is not always a matter of personal failings, on their part. some have genetic defects, which impair brain functions, and induce different behavioral traits. Van Gogh is a perfect example of an exceedingly talented person , beset by demons occasioned by a brain defect. to be reductionist and dismissive, and to attribute a person?s failings in life to ?bad choices?is beyond simplistic, and, in a way, elitist. it suggests that those who fail, choose to. i am not in the NBA, but not because i do not wish to. at the age when i could function at that level, i just did not have the gifts. acumen is a gift, just like the ability to throw a ball at 100 miles per hour. some have it, some do not. besides, you analysis fails to examine those who are successes because they inherited wealth, and the contacts with which to develop it. no amount of choice on my part will ever give me the access to the advantages in life that someone like George Bush has. yet, i bet that my SATs were in excess of his, and so is my IQ score.
 
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you see, cobraboy, there are people who believe that we are all able to make rational choices, and, if we do not, it is because we have elected to be irrational. that is simplistic, beyond discussion.

Actually, human being is quite an irrational being.

I recommend:

When it comes to making decisions in our lives, we think we're making smart, rational choices. But are we?

In this newly revised and expanded edition of the groundbreaking New York Times bestseller, Dan Ariely refutes the common assumption that we behave in fundamentally rational ways. From drinking coffee to losing weight, from buying a car to choosing a romantic partner, we consistently overpay, underestimate, and procrastinate. Yet these misguided behaviors are neither random nor senseless. They're systematic and predictable—making us predictably irrational.


Amazon.com: Predictably Irrational, Revised and Expanded Edition: The Hidden Forces That Shape Our Decisions (9780061353246): Dan Ariely: Books

Amazon.com: The Upside of Irrationality: The Unexpected Benefits of Defying Logic at Work and at Home (9780061995033): Dan Ariely: Books

Very, very eye opening


now, back to the original topic ...
 

the gorgon

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rubio, classical economic theory was based on the supposed rationality of the consumer. that idea has long since been debunked, especially by the idea of Prospect Theory. thanks for the links. i will surely read them.
 
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