Transformer and generator suggestions

Rocky

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gary short said:
What the hell does that mean?
That means (as I posted above) that I will be going to the OP's house in the next couple of days, will measure the consumption, add on the extras they plan to add, and calculate the total consumption, so that he knows if his 15k tranformer is adequate or not.
Then, I will post the results here in this thread.
 

mountainfrog

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Self Sufficient Almost

When I had my house built there was no power line near it to connect to.
So I opted for a diesel generator (16 kVA), 2 inverters 3,6 kW each and 16 batteries (6V, 225 Ah each).
The system has worked fine for 8 years.
It provides both, a 120 and 240 V circuit for the house.
The diesel only runs for two hours a day (which has been questioned by forum members) and has done so for more than eight years.
The submergible deep well pump and the pool pumps work during diesel time (totalling about 3 HP).
During that time the batteries are charged with approx. 130 Ampères (2 x 65 Ampéres from each charger unit).
The other 22 hours are taken over by the inverters (no A/C, water is heated by LPG).
Pictures of the set up are on my HP.
Now as there are power lines (quite reliable from the private owned LT power utility) I would still not touch them ....

m'frog
 
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Chris

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Bob, we continually find installations (and I've been around in this country...) with below spec electrical installations. To the extent that we do not extend a warranty on any piece of electronic equipment, unless we've certified the electrical installation. I think perhaps we've seen it all, or most of it. I do live with an electrical and electronics engineer - and we have lived in many places in the world.... So, I'm not a total novice.

I've also observed as example, Rocky, during an outage (remember, an outage can be anything from 3 hours, to three days to three weeks here) ... and seen him balance his supply and demand so finely, that it is ludicrous to watch him. And while watching, my thoughts were, yes, that is exactly what we do back in our office. None of us may have specified and installed for beer gardens or whatever in our lives and none of us profess to be electrical engineers. I just know that we cope, learn and survive under possibly some of the most extreme conditions, and keep our businesses and our homes running.

And then someone that knows nothing, tells us that the argument is bogus. Well, let him survive and live here for a few years, and then tell me that it is bogus. We are not dealing with bogus problems here. The problems are real. It is well reported in the press that, was it something like 40% of supply gets lots because of bad infrastructure.... No North American electrical engineer can tell me anything about keeping an installation running, keeping computers running, keeping supply and demand balanced at a cost that I can afford, unless they've done it. And this may seem quite hysterical... Well, if you are in the situation, most will agree, it is hysterical.

I'm not talking simply about bad wiring, wrongly sized whatevers, substandard wire sizings, and making jokes about the direction of the flow of the electrons - as I'm truly too experienced to do that.... I'm talking about having to deal with the wider infrastructure even if your office or house or premise may be installed quite correctly. You still have the wider electrical environment to deal with - the supply side. Sometimes there is some, sometimes not, sometimes it is what is required, sometimes it is more, and sometimes quite a bit less.

I'm talking about being busy making dinner at home, and hearing and seeing the fans go faster and faster and seeing the lightbulbs go brighter and brighter until everything explodes ... all in the space of a few seconds. The electrical company sometimes simply pumps out 220 or more down the 110 line. And then there is the case of my UPS crying and crying, but, yes, it is on. Why is it crying? Well today, whatever comes in, is just not sufficient. So, one takes the meters and checks... and see that today we only getting about 80 instead of 110.

So, it is an environmental thing. And anyone can tell me what they want .... if they cannot show me success in our conditions, they are talking nonsense and bogus braggadocio.

And those who have seen the lighbulbs explode will agree with me.
 

Chris

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gary short said:
Ad a boy Bob there are electricians in the DR that do the job properly....why I've seen it myself. There are no different ways of wiring something.........no Bob.......only one way...... Maybe I'll head down and wire up some factories or a mine or two.......then I'll ask advise from the local DR1 members. I can't wait.

Yes, and even they cannot control the environment. Read my previous post.
 
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Can we all just get along?

Gary is obviously the most technically qualified of all of those that have posted here. I know because we've discussed electrical issues on other threads before, so I can vouch for the fact that he knows his craft. However, as I stated before, it is hard to give the OP appropriate advice considering all the variables and without getting a first hand look at his situation. Who knows what kind of mess he has in his hands?
 
G

gary short

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Then give me the numbers and I'll crunch them. 15kva is probably too small. How are you checking load? Doesn't matter just tell me what all he has for demand and I'll give you wire sizes, main size etc; for freeeee. Thats it... no more no less.....easy. I spend most of my day pouring over drawings and calculating everything needed. My rate is 200/hr.....this is free!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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gary short

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Sorry Chris I know you're a moderator but unless your posts are no longer than a sentence. uuuummmmmm are you special.......you know special???
 

Chris

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gary short said:
Sorry Chris I know you're a moderator but unless your posts are no longer than a sentence. uuuummmmmm are you special.......you know special???
Terribly special. ;) Special enough to know what I am talking about in a real and practical way. Gary, when you are able to keep something running here and can demonstrate that you know local conditions, I'll pay attention to you. For the rest, keep it high level and don't jump to conclusions like the 5kw that you offered the poster initially. I'd still like to know 5kw what? And a few other questions that you have not answered.
gary short said:
Jackieboo 5kw will do you fine. Thats ample for a families needs.
Anyway, I'm bored of this now.

Rocky, I'll let you know tomorrow what we need ... it is not big, but needs be as clean as possible.
 
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Rocky

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Chris said:
And those who have seen the lighbulbs explode will agree with me.
You ain't kidding !
I've seen them blow the glass portions right off the wall accross the room, not even touching the floor, and smashing into the opposing wall.
I have seen my microwave, which was not operating at the time, but plugged in, just up and catch fire, while bulbs were exploding around me.
I've run out of a room for fear of the ceiling fan coming off it's supports, as it spun so fast, I had visions of it slicing me up into very fine salami slices.
Two weeks ago, at a friends house, we were getting 260 volts out of a 110 line.
The only rule around here is that there are no rules.
No grounds. Spaghetti wiring systems. Cheap transformers. Undersized wires.
You name it, we got it.
One doesn't even ask why, anymore.
One simply learns to battle the conditions thrown at them.
Oh yeah, Chris.. I know what you mean.
 

Rocky

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gary short said:
Then give me the numbers and I'll crunch them. 15kva is probably too small. How are you checking load? Doesn't matter just tell me what all he has for demand and I'll give you wire sizes, main size etc; for freeeee. Thats it... no more no less.....easy. I spend most of my day pouring over drawings and calculating everything needed. My rate is 200/hr.....this is free!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If this is addressed to me, I will simply measure the amperage flow from both phases.
If the total amount, plus the potential additional consumption from the AC's that the OP intends to install, is within the boundaries of the 15k transformer, then all is well in paradise.
If not, then a bigger transformer is needed.
Simple as that.
 

Rocky

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gary short said:
Rocky bet on getting him 200 amps.........over.
If it's a palatial house with a pool and the OP slaps a bunch of ACs in there, they very well could exceed the capacity of the 15k transformer, but, sight unseen, I would still be willing to bet one pair of mating ostriches, that it will not reach the 200 amp plus zone.
 

Hillbilly

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And I shall keep my invite open, so that Rocky can see our installation as a possible solution, if needs be.

HB :D:D
 

Rocky

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Hillbilly said:
And I shall keep my invite open, so that Rocky can see our installation as a possible solution, if needs be.

HB :D:D
Always interested in learning new tricks.
Is it something that can be described on the net, or one of those "you have to see it, to believe it" arrangements, like mine here.
I'm sure people from North America wouldn't believe the set ups we have, not to mention when power surges start frying everything, how we run around implementing our counter measures.
It's like when a battle ship goes into security alert, as I run around, pushing my way through people, saying out loud, "ELECTRICAL EMERGENCY....COMING THROUGH, COMING THROUGH", lol.
I bet they think I'm nuts.
 

Hillbilly

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It is a neat arrangement, that's all. As near perfect an installation as i have seen. It functions to a "T", and we are one happy family....
Besides, be good to see you down here..

HB
 

DavidZ

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I don't mean to get into the middle of the apparent "who knows more about electricity in the DR" feud here, but I'd like to say something. I have renovated and/or managed several renovation projects in the states and there are always unseen problems only discovered once you start tearing into
the walls, electrical panels, etc. However, In the year or so that Ive been here and checking out properties and their electrical and plumbing systems,and the overall construction methods, I have to say that the normal mindset of "how bad could it be" simply does not apply here. It is truly unfathomable unless you actually see it for yourself.

So, Gary, while you may be a Master Electrician in your home country and are very adept at problem solving there (which I don't doubt), unless you've dealt with the problems some of us have here, it's next to impossible to give advice on anything other than basic electricl principles... which are often not followed here anyway.

I also want to send a HUGE THANK YOU to Rocky, who just left my place and solved my specific problems... a problem that several other electricians couldn't solve, unless, of course, I wanted to pay them to completely re-wire my entire property, starting from the street connection.

This site has been an amazing asset to me and Im sure countless others as a place to get answers to sometimes simple and other times very complex questions relating to the adjustment of life here in the DR. But, like many other "community sites" there is always alot of bickering that seems to go on, which ultimately gets in the way of the inherent value of this community.

I would suggest everyone calm down, and let Rocky go to JackieBoo's place and figure out the problem there... I'm sure he will!
 

Rocky

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The Jury's in for Jackieboo's house.

Although I am waiting for a response to the PM I sent to the OP, regarding what he is willing to do to save consumption, and how many and what type of AC's, TV's, PCs, etc will be added into the mix, the initial tests show that the 15K transformer in place WILL do the job.

The next part is only for those who are interested in the numbers and the tech part of the story.
Here are the figures....
With everything on in the house, fridges, hot water tank, pool pump, main water pump, 37 lightbulbs, all the fans, radios, everything and anything we could fing to plug in, we had on.
Using the peak hold feature on the ampmeter, I managed to get (including start up draw from motors & compressors) 46.4 amps on one phase, and 31.4 amps on the other, making a total of 77.8 amps at 110/120 volts.
As the 15k transformer can put out some odd 135 amps at 110 v and we need to allow a 20% leighway, we could say that any consumption below 110 amps consumption in the house would be no problem.
As the OP will no doubt be changing to efficiency lightbulbs, we will save a minimum of 12 amps from bulb consumption, lowering the present total to 66 amps. As we have 110 amps to play with, the 44 spare amps would be ample for adding the AC's, TV's & PC's.

Bear in mind, that all these calculations have been made with EVERYTHING on at the same time.
Nobody runs everything at the same time, except maybe me, testing the lines.

In conclusion, there is no doubt (in my mind) that the present 15k transformer will do the job, unless I'm losing my mind and don't know how to calculate.
Anybody who can prove me wrong, please do so, as I would hate to induce the OP into error.
Thank you, Marco.
 

Chris

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My sense is you're right on the button Marco, or close enough for government work ... That is why I really questioned the issue of purchasing a new larger transformer vigorously. In addition, and to my understanding, the transformer is really an Edenorte issue and the OP should not be purchasing this at all, even if he needed a new one.
 

Rocky

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Chris said:
My sense is you're right on the button Marco, or close enough for government work ... That is why I really questioned the issue of purchasing a new larger transformer vigorously. In addition, and to my understanding, the transformer is really an Edenorte issue and the OP should not be purchasing this at all, even if he needed a new one.
Except that we are in gringoland here, and you could wait an awful long time before they change it at their expense, and in the meantime, you're out of power.
They just play the waiting game with you, and you lose.