Unrest Outside Cabarete

[Keith R]

Also keep in mind, that even in the US the government there can force you to give up your property if the government has a different plan for it.

Try standing up to uncle Sam when uncle Sam wants your house to built a highway or to make a park or something, you can't say no. Either you accept their monetary offer for your property or you are kicked out! When uncle Sam wants it, he gets it. So, in a way it can be said to be like in the US, but in a little more chaotic manner.

Also keep in mind, there are many false claims to properties on this island. If the title was not done by a recongnized company, doubt the titles.

Actually, Nal0whs, you are comparing apples and oranges. Eminent domain does indeed allow Uncle Sam to claim your land -- but there is a process, it can be appealed, proper compensation must be awarded, and people sometimes defeat Uncle Sam in court! In other words, there is due process, something sorely lacking in the DR. I have seen this in action in the US -- my grandfather fought the expansion of a highway through his land in Virginia in court for 10 years! During that time, bulldozers and soldiers with rifles never showed up and razed his trees and fences. They didn't dare! That, my friends, is a basic difference between the two government/legal systems that I did not fully appreciate until I lived in the DR and saw firsthand how little regard for process there is, and how its outcome so often depends on who's bought whom...
Regards,
Keith

 

[Escott]

I would expect the same thing to happen on Sosua Beach within the next year. All the casetas are squatters and the owner when they complete the Convention Center and Casino I expect will clear out all the shops on the beach in exactly the same fashion.

I even know people buying these bars/shops knowing full well they are buying nothing close to resembling a title and investing money in these buildings. One fellow told me that there are people with guns that own these shops on the beach and they wont have the nerve or the ability to take them down. I told him that the Army and Police will just shoot the people that resist and throw them in the ocean with little care but I don't think he believed me.

I am willing to wager that what happened in Cabarete was in fact the eviction of squatters and that these people did NOT have a good title to these properties. Whether there was enough compassion in the way it was done I won't comment on just like I don't agree with the way they deal with arrests of innocent people until one of them sings about who in fact did the dirty. This is how it is done in the DR and I don't believe it is my place to comment or that I have the ability to change things while only a resident here. I certainly believe that the Dominicans won't do anything to change things either. Some of them will blame it on the "otherguy" and that will be as far as it goes.

 

[Escott]

drsol has some more picture from the area:
http://www.drsol.info/forums/showthread.php?t=503

Hey Tom, how are you doing? LOL

 

[timelessdreams]

I am willing to wager that what happened in Cabarete was in fact the eviction of squatters and that these people did NOT have a good title to these properties. Whether there was enough compassion in the way it was done I won't comment on just like I don't agree with the way they deal with arrests of innocent people until one of them sings about who in fact did the dirty. This is how it is done in the DR and I don't believe it is my place to comment or that I have the ability to change things while only a resident here. I certainly believe that the Dominicans won't do anything to change things either. Some of them will blame it on the "otherguy" and that will be as far as it goes.

Escott,

Is it possible to have registered a legitimate business and file income taxes on that business and property without a valid title?
Obviously, Luis was not a 'squatter'.

Please advise.

Thanks,
Susie

 

[Rocky]

Squatters.

Of the 3 people I know or have spoken to who were evicted, none of them claimed to own the land on which they were.
As much as I feel bad for anybody in distress, I have to support the true owner of the land who has probably gone through H*** to get his land back, and at considerable expense, I imagine.
I highly doubt that these people were caught by surprise.
If a land owner is trying to get you off his land, you know about it and if you choose to ignore his claim and he shows up with the army and bulldozers one day, then that's the chance you took.
Of course, there's always the guy who's innocent in the deal, like a renter, paying rent to someone who doesn't even own the land. I feel sorry for thiis guy, but the rest have to take their pill and swallow it.
Situations like this often get out of hand when 2 forces with opposing views meet up.
Y'all remember Wako?

 

[KrackedKris]

Of the 3 people I know or have spoken to who were evicted, none of them claimed to own the land on which they were.
As much as I feel bad for anybody in distress, I have to support the true owner of the land who has probably gone through H*** to get his land back, and at considerable expense, I imagine.
I highly doubt that these people were caught by surprise.
If a land owner is trying to get you off his land, you know about it and if you choose to ignore his claim and he shows up with the army and bulldozers one day, then that's the chance you took.
Of course, there's always the guy who's innocent in the deal, like a renter, paying rent to someone who doesn't even own the land. I feel sorry for thiis guy, but the rest have to take their pill and swallow it.
Situations like this often get out of hand when 2 forces with opposing views meet up.
Y'all remember Wako?

If you are referring to the incident at Waco, TX I have to ask what does the attempt (Admittedly ill fated) by US authorities to rescue women and children, execute warrants etc have to do with bulldozing peoples house and shooting at innocent occupants?

Rocky, your comparison isn't even relative. You are not even comparing "apples and oranges," so far apart is your comparison it may as well be Cherries and Watermelons :classic:

 

[james]

I beleive that most Long Term residents here having had an interest over the years in real estate and keeping their ears open beleived that most of those properties were occupied by squatters and that even the road house was on questionable land.
The road house owners brother, a lawyer, knows a lot about these lands.
I beleive that any person trying to buy one of those properties IF they had a reputable lawyer would have discovered the lands were not as claimed when a title search and survey was done.

 

[Escott]

Escott,

Is it possible to have registered a legitimate business and file income taxes on that business and property without a valid title?
Obviously, Luis was not a 'squatter'.

Please advise.

Thanks,
Susie

I think you should just be thankful you weren't involved in this property. You are saying what you say based on what exactly? Did you have an attorney research this property? Have you even seen the title?

Listen to nothing of what you hear and half of what you see in the Dominican Republic and be very very careful in your business dealings. You can register a legitimate business and file income taxes and not even own the property or any property. There are NO taxes on the property just so you know. It is exempt based on the value.

Why don't you look up A3T Real Estate in sosua. They were renting the property and maybe have an inside track as to what the problems were.



Scott

 

[timelessdreams]

Thanks for the info...

I beleive that most Long Term residents here having had an interest over the years in real estate and keeping their ears open beleived that most of those properties were occupied by squatters and that even the road house was on questionable land.
The road house owners brother, a lawyer, knows a lot about these lands.
I beleive that any person trying to buy one of those properties IF they had a reputable lawyer would have discovered the lands were not as claimed when a title search and survey was done.

Fortunately, or 'unfortunately', we hadn't gotten as far as initiating a title search for the property as of yet. We were coming out in Sept. to possibly place a deposit in escrow with realtor or with our DR attorney. I was supposed to contact the owner's brother (you claim to be an attorney) tomorrow, as he is known to be on the deed as well. (If in fact, there is one).

Is it possible to have all properties you are interested in 'title-searched' prior to offering a deposit? Could get quite expensive I would imagine.

Thank you all for your advise and comments, and please keep them coming!
Susie

 

[Rocky]

Cherries & watermelons.

If you are referring to the incident at Waco, TX I have to ask what does the attempt (Admittedly ill fated) by US authorities to rescue women and children, execute warrants etc have to do with bulldozing peoples house and shooting at innocent occupants?

Rocky, your comparison isn't even relative. You are not even comparing "apples and oranges," so far apart is your comparison it may as well be Cherries and Watermelons :classic:

I thought I explained it well enough, but I'll try again.

"Situations like this often get out of hand when 2 forces with opposing views meet up."

The owner wants his land back, there's one party with one viewpoint.
The squatter thinks that since he's been there for a long time, he has rights to the land, there's the other viewpoint.
You might be able to see that the people at Wako had different viewpoints than those outside.
The comparison was made to explain the potential violence in situations like this.
What does it matter if it's crack dealers vs the cops or squatters vs a land owner?
You have people on one side committing a crime and the law on the other.
These situations often end in violence.
I hope I explained it better this time.

 

[timelessdreams]

I think you should just be thankful you weren't involved in this property. You are saying what you say based on what exactly? Did you have an attorney research this property? Have you even seen the title?

Listen to nothing of what you hear and half of what you see in the Dominican Republic and be very very careful in your business dealings. You can register a legitimate business and file income taxes and not even own the property or any property. There are NO taxes on the property just so you know. It is exempt based on the value.

Why don't you look up A3T Real Estate in sosua. They were renting the property and maybe have an inside track as to what the problems were.



Scott

Thank you, Scott. Will do. I have also spoken with John Kornbluth regarding the history of the place.

 

[cobraboy]

If your title was insured by Stewart they should pay you and then they should go after the people for damages whom were the cause.

Precisely. This is the sole function and purpose of title insurance. Buying property without it is bad business.

 

[KrackedKris]

Cabarete and Waco, not even close in any respect

I thought I explained it well enough, but I'll try again.

"Situations like this often get out of hand when 2 forces with opposing views meet up."

The owner wants his land back, there's one party with one viewpoint.
The squatter thinks that since he's been there for a long time, he has rights to the land, there's the other viewpoint.
You might be able to see that the people at Wako had different viewpoints than those outside.
The comparison was made to explain the potential violence in situations like this.
What does it matter if it's crack dealers vs the cops or squatters vs a land owner?
You have people on one side committing a crime and the law on the other.
These situations often end in violence.
I hope I explained it better this time.

Actually, this explanation of yours is a bit worse

what do "squatters" as you claim them to be (apparently many had titles but no courts etc were there to listen, just an armed force) have in common with people like Korseh who had several Federal, State and local Warrants for his arrest have in common?

I don't agree with what happened at Waco, but DUE PROCESS in a criminal action was followed, in Cabarete it appears as if people were forcibly removed without process

How can you compare the two situations?

 

[Amalek]

Hey Tom, how are you doing? LOL

He has posted them there yes, but i'm not him.

 

[Rocky]

One last time.

Actually, this explanation of yours is a bit worse

what do "squatters" as you claim them to be (apparently many had titles but no courts etc were there to listen, just an armed force) have in common with people like Korseh who had several Federal, State and local Warrants for his arrest have in common?

I don't agree with what happened at Waco, but DUE PROCESS in a criminal action was followed, in Cabarete it appears as if people were forcibly removed without process

How can you compare the two situations?

I'll try one more time.
Squatters = People commiting a crime, ie, land thieves/ the bad guys.
Owner = Law/Justice/ the good guys.
Bad guys meet good guys, violence is to be expected.

 

[Rocky]

He has posted them there yes, but i'm not him.

Are you his sister?

 

[Amalek]

Are you his sister?

No, sorry but don't even know him

 

[Tom F.]

This looks like the area where Mick has (or had) his fiberglass business. There was always an issue about how close these structure were to the beach. There is a law about being a certain amount of feet from the beach and almost all those North of the road are probably breaking the law.

There was a piece of land outside of SFM where maybe a hundred families built makeshift structures and weathered a few military invasions with bulldozers and today it is a shantytown, extension of Macoris. The word was, the land was obtained illegally and it was left unproductive for many years. There is no property tax in the rural areas and there are large areas of land which may sit unproductive for up to a decade. Those poor people sit there everyday and eventually figure they have a better use for it.

My father-in-law had an ongoing problem with squatters with a finca in the mountains of SFM. If my brother-in-law didn't keep the fences maintained, make monthly visits and generally keep an eye on things, they would of lost the land a long time ago.

When you get down to it, some of the land was titled out to those of substance while the smaller guys had squatter rights. My father-in-law was one of those who was big enough to get the mountain land titled. I have found the issue of land titles and how different administrations have found ways of selling off land and other natural resources put under the Trujilo conglomerate.

 

[timelessdreams]

This looks like the area where Mick has (or had) his fiberglass business. There was always an issue about how close these structure were to the beach. There is a law about being a certain amount of feet from the beach and almost all those North of the road are probably breaking the law.

There was a piece of land outside of SFM where maybe a hundred families built makeshift structures and weathered a few military invasions with bulldozers and today it is a shantytown, extension of Macoris. The word was, the land was obtained illegally and it was left unproductive for many years. There is no property tax in the rural areas and there are large areas of land which may sit unproductive for up to a decade. Those poor people sit there everyday and eventually figure they have a better use for it.

My father-in-law had an ongoing problem with squatters with a finca in the mountains of SFM. If my brother-in-law didn't keep the fences maintained, make monthly visits and generally keep an eye on things, they would of lost the land a long time ago.

When you get down to it, some of the land was titled out to those of substance while the smaller guys had squatter rights. My father-in-law was one of those who was big enough to get the mountain land titled. I have found the issue of land titles and how different administrations have found ways of selling off land and other natural resources put under the Trujilo conglomerate.

Tom,

I hope your firend Mike didn't face this devistation to his business. With regard to the water/shoreline restrictions ~ We consulted with several realtors in the area to obtain land/water restrictions, surveyal rights, building restrictions, septic, etc. The Roadhouse, as well as lots adjacent and all were well witihin the restriction setback of 60ft. I agree, it is a rather short setback compared to here in the states, but several operating businesses along Kite Beach have similar setbacks.

I would tend to lean more towards the non-profitablility of the properties recently. With that in mind however, it seems odd that these few sites were sadly 'picked or chosen' amongst the vast properites between Sosua and Cabarete. They would be considered 'prime' locations for those interested, which is why the price has nearly doubled in a year.

I'm trying to find out what has actually happened to these properties and who will ultimately have control over them.

I'm glad to hear that your father-in-law won title right to his property!

Thanks,
Susie

 

[KrackedKris]

Flawed logic

I'll try one more time.
Squatters = People commiting a crime, ie, land thieves/ the bad guys.
Owner = Law/Justice/ the good guys.
Bad guys meet good guys, violence is to be expected.

Who adjudicated the squatters as bad guys, who issued warrants to enter and destroy, who issued orders to fire on civilians for what reason.


Who are the owners? I thoght this swas carried out by Military police, not a civil action?

Rocky, your "logic" is very flawed

Rocky

Sorry to get "personal" with this, but you obviously beleive in the action of this Government, I take the side of civil and human rights Best we don't respond "tit for tat" I guess