Waste Waste Wate Waste Waste And Waste

[Skippy1]

Ok well if you really want to know.
I do not take my shopping home in a plactic bag I refuse to use them. I take a large box or ask for one.
I never buy food from a place that serves it in a styrene container. If I ever go to MacDonalds which is amost never I would eat in and save on the wasted pakaging.
For items that one has no choice but to dispose of like plastic bottles I crush as small as I can. At home I used to compost all vegetable and mineral waste.... there is absolutely no reason why Dominicans cant do the same. If it was possibe here I would recycle as much paper, glass and metal as i could.
It is actually a big industry in other countries and for some its very profitable.
I would never throw rubbish in the street or on the beach for that matter use the bins where I can find them if not take my rubbish back home with me.
Can I ask you if you have actually looked at the pictures I mentioned?????? I would be very interested to know...It would tell me more about you than anything else for two reasons.....

1. if you have seen them then you have not commented and therefore you are either not bothered or indifferent.
2. If you havent seen them then you are also indifferent and not bothered. as they have been refered to in this post with a link a few times.

I will reverse the question to you now

Chris What do you do with your rubbish????

Skippy1

Doing nothing is just as bad as commiting the crime.... in my opinion.

 

[Chris]

Are you misunderstanding the question Skippy? My English was not the best in that sentence, so, I'm going to repeat it and phrase it better ...

how would you dispose of the trash that you see in the pictures? What would you actually do, to dispose of it in 'a friendly way'?

I think you are talking about what you see in your home country and have no clue or idea what happens in the DR or what the mechanisms are.

And Squat .. your last sentence "Now, why is it that they are so "clean" for their shirts, their shoes & their jeepeta, but so dirty when it comes to everything else ? Because, as a matter of fact, it is their space too..."

Perhaps you should look closer at finding the answers to that, instead of making bad taste remarks and generalizing against Dominican people as a whole. If you don't understand it, I'll try and reverse the comment. I think all the people where you come from stink!

 

[Skippy1]

Chris, I do live here and I do know about some of the issues,
I have been to many beaches here and seen the shameful way the people treat the golden goose so to speak...(you think the people come here for your Bachata?)

For styrene there is no easy answer other than incinerate which has problems of its own ie toxic fumes.....but its better to burn than leave to rot (which could take 200 years) imagine coming back here in 2108 and having to walk over that in the pictures and another 100 years of it.
If you are going to do something practicle then urge the government to ban this type of packaging its not needed and there are many alternative especially recycled waste paper. The plastic carrier bag is the scurge of the planet dont use them they are what will kill us all off eventually they never rot and will be here like dinosaur bones if the planet lasts that long.
Can anyone remember what they used before Plastic??

CHP units (combined heat and power) are used to generate electricity and heat hot water in a lot of countries. They are relatively cheap to build and run. They would solve alot of the problems with rising fuel costs here too and reduce the need to import coal gas or oil to light and power homes. This problem is the same for all Caribbean countries but some are better at dealing with it than others. Cayman Islands for example are not as polluted as here and they are smaller than DR with less Tourists to help finance it but they still find a way of recycling as much as they can.

I am glad you saw the pictures......I am sure it did not make you proud of your fellow Domincan who did this...its quite simply a crime and an outrage ...why am I the only one upset by this???????
Not one post in support of me or sharing my anger.....you are right its not even my country.
Come on Dominicans Do something before its too late. POVERTY is NOT an EXCUSE.
The people leaving all their food and rubbish on the beach are not the poor they are the so called educated and rich who can afford the 100,000 us dollar jeepeta and own the nice Casaron in Samtiago or Santo Domingo. I watch many educated Dominicans Doctors lawyer et al throwing rubbish out the car window as they dirve by.
The man who changes the oil in his car and then pours the old oil on the ground......where does he think that will end up......in the water courses is where and all of us will drink his crime oneday eventually.
Its not sustainable and its about time people saw the light.
OOOh dear went off into a rant sorry I think I will go and lie down for a bit....LOL

Skippy1

 

[Squat]

I agree completely with the above post !
It is an honest analyse, good job Skippy1 for your straight talk !

For Chris... I don't know... Pretending issues don't exist doesn't help to find solutions... No offence anyway...

 

[Chris]

I am glad you saw the pictures......I am sure it did not make you proud of your fellow Domincan who did this...its quite simply a crime and an outrage ...why am I the only one upset by this???????
Not one post in support of me or sharing my anger.....you are right its not even my country.

Perhaps because most of the rest of us have long since turned any anger into positive action.

Now, do you know how many incinerators the DR has? Working ones I mean? To dispose of the trash in the pictures in a 'friendly' way?

 

[Chris]

For Chris... I don't know... Pretending issues don't exist doesn't help to find solutions... No offence anyway...

I don't think I ever did that in terms of trash in the DR. You are the one that gave offense by calling Dominicans dirty!

So Skippy1, besides outrage, what you have you done about trash in the DR. And Squat, what have you done besides insulting others?

 

[Skippy1]

I don't think I ever did that in terms of trash in the DR. You are the one that gave offense by calling Dominicans dirty!

So Skippy1, besides outrage, what you have you done about trash in the DR. And Squat, what have you done besides insulting others?

Chris I was prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt earlier but now you are making me feel ...

I was right first time.......how about you answer my question What do you do???????

Besides outrage......ok posted here called numerous times to various departments to get them to try and clean up.
Wrote an article for the Green Team.
Started two threads on the subject.
Sent pictures to the TV channels and newspapers in Santo Domingo...
Surprise surprise none of them are interested.
I think they are too ashamed to want anyone to know about it it hits too hard and too deep into the mindset of the Dominican people.

My next step is to take this internationally and contact Friends of the Earth maybe they can take it up with the Dominican Gov directly. Maybe get some media interest outside DR warn some tourists what they are likely to expect if they stray from the tourist tracks.

My real and utter disgust is the Dominican people do not care.
Look for yourself and tell me how many posters have come back and said here is the number to call or wow this is really bad I am going to do something about it. Even you Chris have never once condemed this as an act of vandalism on the nation of the Dominican Republic prefering to try and excuse it...WHY?

Oh and please no more avoiding the questions and reversing them you answer some for me......

Skippy1

 

[Chris]

how about you answer my question What do you do???????

Do a search Skippy1. No, I'm not into condemning, I'm into helping to fix stuff.

 

[Skippy1]

search on what?

 

[gurabenogringas]

wow. what a post.
it's very easy to send pictures to the news. to write an article for a blog. to start two threads on message boards. it's a lot harder to re-educate a nation of people who are used to being cleaned up after. rich people have maids that clean their houses, schoolkids have a woman who cleans the schoolyard, even offices have cleaning people who take care of the mess.

the government has just re-configured the amount of hours that high school seniors need to complete of community service. before they had to serve 50 hours in any government office. Now, they need to serve 30 in an office (or whatever) and 30 in a reforestation project. small step, but a step in the right direction.

in santiago there is a foundation doing "trash re-education" in barrio nuevo (no, not pueblo nuevo, barrio nuevo) where they are actually entering people's houses and teaching them about waste and waste disposal. they are raising money to pay the trash collection. and offering rewards for the cleanest streets.

universidad ISA here in santiago is also doing trash and recycling education for school kids. they're even doing water testing and teaching the kids about contamination. for free.

so, if we're really concerned, shouldn't we stop writing and start acting? what does it cost to teach people? nothing. i know it's not easy, but complaining or generalizing isn't going to help anyone.

 

[Squat]

so, if we're really concerned, shouldn't we stop writing and start acting? what does it cost to teach people? nothing. i know it's not easy, but complaining or generalizing isn't going to help anyone.

You have a valid point... Your post is well informative.

 

[Skippy1]

Perhaps unlike most on here I have a full time job In Santo Domingo....
Nice words but the river is still blocked anyone got an Idea on how to get it cleaned quickly??????

Skippy1

 

[whirleybird]

Perhaps unlike most on here I have a full time job In Santo Domingo....
Nice words but the river is still blocked anyone got an Idea on how to get it cleaned quickly??????

Skippy1

I have a full time job too - perhaps the only difference is that I don't get paid for doing mine :cheeky:

 

[Skippy1]

Whirley your job is far more important than mine and If could I would make sure you were paid a large fortune but then you would still spend it on the dogs and it would not make any difference to you......well you would be happier at being able to do more pm me and I will see if I cant get you some support from the office we have a few brits there all dog lovers like us.

Skippy1

 

[Chris]

Perhaps unlike most on here I have a full time job In Santo Domingo....
Nice words but the river is still blocked anyone got an Idea on how to get it cleaned quickly??????

Skippy1

Yes I have a few ideas.

Idea one - Get a group together and go out for a Saturday Cleanup (get the necessary authorities and bring a few eco minded groups together while you're about it. If you search and read on how the Santiago cleanup was done, you'll get many ideas.
Figure out where the nearest incinerator is, or ask Keith. Arrange for transportation of the picked up garbage to the incinerator.
After a hard day of picking up and cleaning, everyone would be thirsty and a beer together would be nice - a good neighbourly feeling can also be engendered.

Idea two - Find out where the Secretar?a de Estado de Medio Ambiente y Recursos Naturales office is. Take the photos and go and show them .. tell and ask them what to do. I bet they won't know what to do with you and you'll get very frustrated. Get really mad and revert to Idea one.

Idea three - There are posters on the site who have Dominican spouses involved in green initiatives in the DR. Ask them to talk with their spouses and give some guidance as to how to handle the problem.

Welcome to the DR.

 

[Skippy1]

Tried number two and you are right useless bunch of idiots. maybe I should change my approach like crept up with a bag full of Dollars and told them its from the government slush fund.

will work on number one.

Not holding out much hope on number three as you can see no response from concerned Dominican Ladies here yet.

Skippy1 not feeling so skippy at the moment..........lol

 

[Keith R]

I hope that everyone (even my fellow moderators) will keep this civil and results- and solution-oriented.

Speaking as someone who writes/works a heckuva lot on waste issues in Latin America and the Caribbean (LAC), I have to say that it's a complex, multi-faceted problem with no quick-and-easy solutions, especially in a place like the DR. Not a cop-out, just the hard truth.

To start with in the case of the DR, you have the infrastructure problems. Some municipalities have no real trash collection, many others with totally nuts trash collection contracts that are often more about patronage (i.e., getting primo a lucrative income stream) than providing citizens with reliable, quality service. And then there is the not-so-insubstantial problem that many people never pay for their trash collection, even when they receive it. When I lived in SD, our neighborhood had collection twice a week (we never knew what time of day it'd be, but at least which two days of the week!), but many of my neighbors never paid their bills for it, even though they could well afford it. So trash collection was always in financial trouble...

There are still no true sanitary landfills in the DR, although the Fernandez Administration is trying to build some in places like Puerto Plata Province -- and facing the kind of "not in my backyard" (NIMBY) neighborhood resistance one sees across LAC and in the US as well. The largest disposal site in the DR -- SD's "Duquesa" -- is a dump that the government hired Brazilian consultants to convert into "manual" or "controlled" landfill that at least meets some minimal standards.

There are NO -- none, zip, zero, nil -- proper treatment and disposal facilities for hazardous waste in the DR, including radioactive, infectious, toxic. Further, there are no real incinerators or waste-to-energy plants, although plenty of proposals, many of which are frankly dubious and I worry about proper monitoring, supervision and enforcement of emission limits.

Composting in the DR is mostly personal and small-scale. I know of some municipality administrations -- such as San Francisco de Macoris -- that wanted to start municipal-scale projects, but could not get enough support (including possible end-users for the compost) to go through with it.

And last but far from least in the infrastructure dept., there is the lack of recovery and recycling operations in the DR. Why does recycling seem to work in Brazil, but not the DR? In large part because Brazil has the metals, cellulose/board/paper, rubber and plastics industries that can take advantage of collected and recovered materials.

Can you really effectively promote recycling without having recyclers and a local or nearby market for recovered materials? There is some potential for development of this in the DR, I feel, but so far it's difficult to get Dominican businessmen and politicians very excited about it...

There's also how the waste profile in the DR is changing. 30, 20 maybe even 10 years ago if you have done a compositional analysis of the household waste in the DR, you would have found high organic (food, yard waste, etc.) content -- maybe as high as 75% -- that was potentially compostable, but this profile is rapidly changing toward inorganics (metals, plastics, etc.). And more refillable glass food and beverage containers being replaced by plastics, for which there is currently no recycling in the DR. [By the way, polystyrene -- what you tend to call syrofoam, which actually is a trademark name -- IS recyclable, and there are facilities for that in the US. But none in the DR.]

Then there's the education angle. The DR schools are making some timid starts, but they could do so much more. Unfortunately, as someone mentioned above, this is a long-term process. I remember a severe litter problem in the US before the Keep America Beautiful Campaign was launched (I was a kid then, but already interested in environmental issues). Things have improved alot over 35 years, but litter has not disappeared in the US. As dramatic as Skippy's pictures are, I saw something not too far from it in a local Virginia creek I cleaned up with my kids about a year ago. Wish it wasn't so, but it is.

And as someone else pointed out, littering is a problem in most poor countries. I can certainly vouch for that being true in LAC nations. Major municipalities in some countries (even the DF in SD) are fighting it with education, PR campaigns, etc., with mixed success. But they all recognize that it is a long haul with slow, incremental change.

BTW, I can vouch that littering is done by Dominicans across the board, not just the poor and lower middle class. I have seen it with my own eyes.

I could write (another) book on it the waste problem in LAC in general and DR in particular, and probably should. But hopefully I've made my point about how multi-faceted the DR's waste problem is.

There are things we can do, but we need to work together, be innovative, be conscious that it will take time and dedication, and above all, find ways to get Dominicans involved and helping to lead the change. It can't be done entirely or even mostly by expats -- that will probably doom it to failure.

Sobered by harsh realities but still willing to take on the waste challenge in the DR,
Keith R
Environment Forum Moderator

 

[pyratt]

Simple solution:

50 gallon barrel
Charcoal fluid
A match

It's done all over the Caribbean....why are the streets of JARBACOA pristine? I was there for 2 weeks in December. The place is spotless, even in the outlying barrios and fincas.

 

[Skippy1]

Wow Keith where were you ......
All I have ever wanted was a way to get ,help or find someone/something to clean up this mess. I am not bothered who or how.
I am not an enviromental specialist just a concerned user of this planet. But for your intervention shall we say I was about to give up and leave the people to their fate (yes theirs not mine I could not live like this no matter how good the beaches are)

The information and analysis of the problem is excellent and very informative. I have no doubt you are extremely well acustomed to the difficulties (unlike me)
Perhaps together we can find a solution?

Thinking about this, the problem was more to do with sewerage waste until it was cleared by a mechanical digger a few weeks ago. I am beginning to suspect someone may have benefited financially from the clean up and is now looking for another reward or payday.....my suspicious mind at work.
So hence the reason for that statement as I do not want to (if possible) get back into the same situation in another few weeks time.
So Keith if you have some contacts or direct lines of communication can you advise on who what where to go and see, talk, or pay?
I will be much obliged for anything you can to get me on the right road.

Skippy1

 

[Skippy1]

Having thought and mulled over Keith's excellent post a bit...

Ok a solution for trash....sorry its not going to sort out the river quite yet.

There is a problem here with not only the trash (rubbish) collection but also the power (electricity). The Barrios have a reputation for theft shall we say.

How about the electricity companies invest in CHP (combined heat and power) plants then use the rubbish collected from the barrios to fuel their own supply still free to them gratis as its self powered so to speak ...no waste collected no electricity simple as that.
I am sure that the excess power which will be paid for by the honest customers would also allow some investment in education and some salaried collection staff.
Even if it was not true that the amount of waste could supply the whole barrio it would do no harm to let them believe it is. A few days of no power and you would find them lining up to hand over all their waste to get the Colmado Music machines back online.
Simplistic maybe but I am sure the likes of Keith could do a thesis on it and find a way to make the numbers stack up.
The idea came to me when I remembered a project I worked on in Namibia southern Africa. The water had to come from a very deep well and it supplied the whole village. They had no power and the nearest supply was 100 miles or so away.
Solar power and diesel pumps were ok but unreliable. as they could not afford to buy diesel and the cloud cover could last for days.
Solution hand pump. but with a twist the pump was turned into a merry go round for the children in the school playground.....boundless energy from the children pumped water into the Main storage tank that fed the village.
When the water was low they just sent the kids out to play.
This system is now recognised as a good workable solution and now widely used through out small remote communities in africa.

Skippy1