Wave of Expat Murders

[jackieboo]

Language?

It seems that a lot of the posters have started generalizing. The way I see it the only thing we all share as ex-pats is that we moved here from some other country. Other than that we all have different dreams and desires.

Having said that there is one thing that I notice more than any other and that is ex-pats not speaking Spanish. What's up with that? I see so many people every day at the gas station, grocery stores, resturant', that don't even know or try to use basic Spanish. Carry a damn pocket dictionary if you can't remember how to ask for a bottle of water.

I've only been here about 4 months now and before that I spent quite a lot of time in Latin countries so I was maybe a little more prepared than your average bear. Here's what I've done to secure my house and myself:

1. I have dogs. If you do a search on this site you'll find hundreds of posters that recommend that you have a dog.

2. When I have someone (a worker) that I don't know come to the house I crate my dogs and tell them that they can not be trusted with strangers.

3. I know my neighbors and I know who belongs in my neighborhood and who doesn't.

Don't get me wrong I know I could be the victim of a violent crime at any time, but I am aware of my surroundings and I do what I can to prevent someone thinking I'm a stooge.

The last thing is that the majority of local people that I have met are decent humans that are just trying to do the same thing we all do, survive.

 

[Onions&carrots]

Brrrrrr, its cold up here!

Ocoa has no beaches though, don't you miss that?
Steve

I was never a beach person. In July its a cool 50-70 degrees F at night and in the daytime 80's with low humdity while the capital, Sosua, most everywhere folks are melting away in the horrible heat. I've felt that blanket of heat, that countrywide sauna feel to it. You have to admit it stinks, right.

Oh, I measured with an infrared thermometer one day in July it went down to 40 F. Haha, who would believe such frigid temperatures?

But the drug problem is everywhere. Even Constanza has a MAJOR drug problem. Its that the island is getting like Puerto Rico, overcrowded and drug infested and that ain't any alarmist BS, just the facts!

 

[Kemo]

My take on this on a Country that relies Heavily on tourism and investments its not good P.R. But i have to say comparing it to Costa Rica, mexico, Jamaica and other Caribbean destination D.R is mostly safe.

 

[Chris]

This is part of what Jamaica is doing... "Twenty-four million Jamaican dollars has been allocated to boost the security capabilities in three resort areas specifically for the establishment of a mobile police station equipped with communication devices and the installation of closed circuit television cameras."

Tourism: News in the Caribbean - Caribbean360.com

 

[AZB]

but is'nt it true that there is a certain percentage of these exats who were criminals in their own countries and are looking for a place in the sun to run and hide?
And even if they were'nt, is'nt part of the problem the easy availability of hookers that flock to Sosua from all parts DR? What sort of guys do you think are going to come chasing after them when they hear about all the easy money they are making? The chulos and the deliquentes cannot be far behind once the girls leave the barrios for Sosua...
Is'nt part of the problem the high concentration of whores and whoremongers in one small area?

Please do not take this as a judgement-I am just wondering if these things could be part of the problem. Maybe someone like Rocky can correct me if I'm wrong, but could this be the case?

You are correct. I have met a few expats there and believe me, they were no missionaries. Some guys looked like pure drug addicts and other looked like criminals from their own countries. I mean, there are guys who live poor in the north coast, sleep in roach motel type rooms without water and a proper mattress. They seem unhealthy and desperate yet they refuse to go back to their home countries. It makes me wonder, why they are stuck here in the first place. These same elements feel comfortable mixing with whores and other shady people. Notice how they all cling together in specific places.
So you are right, they, themselves are also part of the problem. I used to live in puerto plata some years back and not a month went by where a few expats didn't get arrested by the interpole police and deported back to their home countries.
AZB

 

[jackieboo]

This is part of what Jamaica is doing... "Twenty-four million Jamaican dollars has been allocated to boost the security capabilities in three resort areas specifically for the establishment of a mobile police station equipped with communication devices and the installation of closed circuit television cameras."

Tourism: News in the Caribbean - Caribbean360.com

No offense Chris but I for one moved here to get away from the 'big brother' shyt. I'd rather take my chances than have some uneducated idiot monitoring every move I make.

Also, what is crap about the 'drug people' that are living here in 'roach infested' motels without running water and a mattress. Yo! They're called homeless people everywhere else in the world!

I don't know about you, but if I were of the homeless, drug addicted type I'd rather camp out here than in New York or London. At least here you can pick a few bushes (tree bushes) and survive.

Get a grip this place isn't Zanadu it's just another third world country doing what third world countries do, work ass backwards.

 

[Lambada]

I used to live in puerto plata some years back and not a month went by where a few expats didn't get arrested by the interpole police and deported back to their home countries.AZB

Could that be the teensiest bit overplayed, AZB? :ermm: I, too, was living in Puerto Plata when you were here; I believe I was here before you and I'm certainly here still. I recall 2 cases of Interpol taking people out when you were here (if you're referring to the Austrians, I won't mention names). That's 2 in approx 3 years. That isn't 'a few each month' now is it? Oh and one of those people returned in a 3 month period after the investigation was completed. So I don't think he could have been found guilty of heinous crimes.............:laugh: The rumours abounded, of course, but it wasn't a homicide matter, it was a tax matter. I guess he paid up and came back.

Maybe the memory playing a few tricks, h'mmm? Even adding on for the ones you'll probably tell me I don't know about I doubt if it was more than 2 or 3 a year. And mostly we did know because, as you'll recall, it was all over town.

That was then. Are there crim gringos on the north coast now? Probably. But like you would I'm sure, when I find out about it, I distance myself.......

 

[HOWMAR]

Some guys looked like pure drug addicts and other looked like criminals from their own countries.

If everbody were what they appeared, some of us would never get past the TSA or Immigration when going back to the US.

 

[Criss Colon]

I Love SOSUA!!!!!!!!

I visit there 2 or 3 times a year! I live in Santo Domingo. I must be one of those "Lowlife" type of foreigners irate: irate: irate: gre: :chinese: that AZB talks about "ad naaaaaausium"!
I guess he means all the DR1ers who will be at "Rocky's" on Thanksgiving,and those who live there all year long as well?????????????????????
CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC

 

[marliejaneca]

You are, as always, correct on this particular situation, as I too, was living in POP at that time, and remember this clearly. As you say, it was all over town!!
But I also have to agree somewhat with AZB. Especially back then, I met my share of "shady" ex-pats that I had always wondered about. So many of the "decent" people that I met, who were making a life for themselves in the DR, investing in homes, employing Dominicans, overall "normal" people fulfilling their retirement dreams, would not have been caught dead mingling with some of these ex-pats. AZB is right, some of them lived in flea-bag apartments, woman hanging off them, sitting in their usual haunts all day long drinking. They did not appear like they were retired professional people, quite the contrary, they looked like they had something to hide. By living the lifestyle they were, it almost seemed that they thought they would not stick out and raise any red flags by living the slum life. I, like you, distanced myself. I would rather have been lonely in the DR, than to fraternize with the likes of them.

Could that be the teensiest bit overplayed, AZB? :ermm: I, too, was living in Puerto Plata when you were here; I believe I was here before you and I'm certainly here still. I recall 2 cases of Interpol taking people out when you were here (if you're referring to the Austrians, I won't mention names). That's 2 in approx 3 years. That isn't 'a few each month' now is it? Oh and one of those people returned in a 3 month period after the investigation was completed. So I don't think he could have been found guilty of heinous crimes.............:laugh: The rumours abounded, of course, but it wasn't a homicide matter, it was a tax matter. I guess he paid up and came back.

Maybe the memory playing a few tricks, h'mmm? Even adding on for the ones you'll probably tell me I don't know about I doubt if it was more than 2 or 3 a year. And mostly we did know because, as you'll recall, it was all over town.

That was then. Are there crim gringos on the north coast now? Probably. But like you would I'm sure, when I find out about it, I distance myself.......

 

[AZB]

Could that be the teensiest bit overplayed, AZB? :ermm: I, too, was living in Puerto Plata when you were here; I believe I was here before you and I'm certainly here still. I recall 2 cases of Interpol taking people out when you were here (if you're referring to the Austrians, I won't mention names). That's 2 in approx 3 years. That isn't 'a few each month' now is it? Oh and one of those people returned in a 3 month period after the investigation was completed. So I don't think he could have been found guilty of heinous crimes.............:laugh: The rumours abounded, of course, but it wasn't a homicide matter, it was a tax matter. I guess he paid up and came back.

Since you mentioned the Austrian, I remember when he got picked up. He was working next to a german bar (name will not be mentioned) and when the word got around that some austrian is being picked up by interpole, about 2 tables emptied out and people ran out the back door. Asked anyone who was in that bar at the time and you know what bar I am talking about.

When I said I lived in POP I didn't precisely mean to say all the incidents occured in POP, I meant the whole north coast. There were many arrests made in the north coast during that time, sosua and cabarete combined.
There was a kite surfing american guy who spoke perfect spanish. he happened to be an informer for interpole. He got paid for turning in people. Believe me, he turned in many folks. I knew him some what, on professional level.
So maybe there weren't as many arrests in POP but there were many arrests from POP to cabarete to semana, combined.
AZB

 

[Chris]

No offense Chris but I for one moved here to get away from the 'big brother' shyt. I'd rather take my chances than have some uneducated idiot monitoring every move I make.

I did not say I liked it Simply giving a different perspective. (And even though I quote your post, the next is more general and not specifically aimed at you).

Lambada is cautiously suggesting control 'by the numbers' and that freaked me out. Hence the question, what are others doing about the crime problems?

So, we can see Jamaica is throwing dollars and technology at it. The DR is not yet really throwing anything at it, excepting bad law enforcement.

AZB is suggesting that bad follows bad ... some people affected I know personally are not bad people, hanging around puta bars etc etc. Some are simply people that did what we all did. Move to the DR to get away from the ratrace, or to retire or to put a finger at big brother or whatever.

Someone else (was it Snuffy, I forget now), is suggesting gated communities. (For some they're fine, but I don't want to live in a gated community)

Rocky suggested that the numbers of crime has not changed, it is just easier now to hear and report. I cannot quite buy that.

There has to be a solution somewhere.... What should we be throwing at it?

 

[AZB]

You are, as always, correct on this particular situation, as I too, was living in POP at that time, and remember this clearly. As you say, it was all over town!!
But I also have to agree somewhat with AZB. Especially back then, I met my share of "shady" ex-pats that I had always wondered about. So many of the "decent" people that I met, who were making a life for themselves in the DR, investing in homes, employing Dominicans, overall "normal" people fulfilling their retirement dreams, would not have been caught dead mingling with some of these ex-pats. AZB is right, some of them lived in flea-bag apartments, woman hanging off them, sitting in their usual haunts all day long drinking. They did not appear like they were retired professional people, quite the contrary, they looked like they had something to hide. By living the lifestyle they were, it almost seemed that they thought they would not stick out and raise any red flags by living the slum life. I, like you, distanced myself. I would rather have been lonely in the DR, than to fraternize with the likes of them.

You are right, if people don't know what I am talking about then think back 6-7 yrs in POP and try to remember what types of folks hung out in bars like le pirate (german) in costambar. There were some dangerous guys living there, jobless and involved in criminal activities. The owners were good folks but many clients were not your average tourist from frankfurt. Remember the tall german who got into a fight with a haitian, got cut up all over the body. I mean the guy was walking around with 30 stitiches at a time in each wound, yet he was still playing pool. People told me that he killed the haitian. The folks also told me to be carefull of him as he was the hitman for the mob there. I am sure lambada was all over POP but I am also sure she didn't see what I saw. I was in the inside as I was the chiropractor and people needed me everywhere, so naturally doors were open to me anywhere I went.

Sams bar was also a joint where many stray dogs hung out, again, joan (the owner) is a good hearted person. Look who went to jail recently who worked and lived there?

Malecon was full of expat stray dogs walking hand in hand with local putas from muelle; need I mention bars and puta places? Luz maria was full of such characters. Do you know how many foreigners married girls from Luz maria whore house? People who know these places know what I am talking about.

There was a french canadian guy living for free in a hotel in costambar (palma caribe), scamming everyone who came his way. he even scammed me of 1500 dollars. He was finally thrown out and abandoned by everyone. I think he ended up in the streets. last I saw him, he was skinny and seemed unhealthy. I hope he didn't die like a dog on the streets of POP. I am sure he was wanted in canada, thats why he refused to go back.

There were so many other guys lived in shady dark motel rooms in nameless streets of pop. Looking for fresh blood to come to town. They would become their friends and instantly come up with a fail-proof business idea. The next thing you know, the new comer is relieved of his cash.
The examples are countless.
AZB

 

[Bear]

Hey O & C

Ocoa is a mountain town in the Southern Cordillera Central area.

Hey Yogi Bear, do you feel at all threatened by the locals in Sosua? Do their shady looks frighten you or it isn't a concern?

Hey AZB, we always complain about the low class DR whores but have you seen some of these ex-pats? They are well matched with some of these barrio scum.

Thanks for the location of Ocoa, my map does not show it.
I do not feel threatened by the locals in Sosua. Most of the people are helpful
and friendly. I believe a lot of it is in the approach, a smile and a friendly
"Hola" usually go a long way. I am much more repulsed by the down market
tourists that come to this area, but I only notice them when I have to go
into town.
The ladies of the night or day don't bother me half as much. Just do not
hang around the bars and other areas they frequent. If approached on the
street, a civil "no: thank you" usually is enough to discourage any further
attempts.
Come and spend some time in the area and you may yet change your mind
about this "Sodom and Gomorah" (sp?) of the DR.
I have travelled around the world on business for almost 30 years and there
are many cities and towns, including NY City, Miami, LA, where I felt more
uneasy than in Sosua/Cabarete/PP.
Simply Bear.

 

[Otter]

Getting Worse? Sure looks like it.

Not quite sure if crime has increased or not, but I can tell you this,
Everywhere people are talking about the DR. At work, at the bar, my sons teacher, investors etc... Everyone is talking about buying land or moving there or whatever... (Costa Rica 15 years ago and Cabo San Lucas 25 years ago) Those same people are also starting to ask, "what is up with the crime in the DR?" They are all coming to this board and are reading about murder and violent crime. If this government wants a fighting chance at bringing investors in from outside, it better do something quick on the crime front. People are not willing to spend money investing in a place that seems to be getting worse in terms of violent crime. Rots a ruck!

 

[NALs]

Not quite sure if crime has increased or not, but I can tell you this,
Everywhere people are talking about the DR. At work, at the bar, my sons teacher, investors etc... Everyone is talking about buying land or moving there or whatever... (Costa Rica 15 years ago and Cabo San Lucas 25 years ago) Those same people are also starting to ask, "what is up with the crime in the DR?" They are all coming to this board and are reading about murder and violent crime. If this government wants a fighting chance at bringing investors in from outside, it better do something quick on the crime front. People are not willing to spend money investing in a place that seems to be getting worse in terms of violent crime. Rots a ruck!

There is plenty of truth in your statement.

However, it's important to note that this is one boat the DR is not alone in!

It's the entire Caribbean region (in fact, all of Latin America) that is seeing an upsurge in violent crime. Some places have been seeing an upsurge for decades and other places which were among the safest places south of the US (like the DR) are catching up.

I have not been able to see data on crime increases in all the major destinations in the Caribbean in order to do a comparison. But, if the crime rate for the DR is growing at par or less than the average increase in the region, then investment could continue to flow into the DR at a nice pace. But, this is considering that increases in violent crime are less or at par to what the average increase is in the region.

Having said that, the Caribbean continously ranks among the regions of the planet with the fastest increase in violent crime. At least it was according to a United Nations report. If I find the report, I'll post it.

I have not found the report, but I did found this news article which points to a Pan-Caribbean spike in violent crime.

Danger in Paradise

If I find the report, I'll post it on another response to this thread.

-NALs

 

[Steve Costa Azul]

I think it's a combination of both. Rocky mentioned it earlier and I agree with him. I guarantee that a part of the shock factor is because we go to the internet like the DR1 and we get shocked! I did searches on world statistics regarding violent crime before we bought our villa in Cabarete and found it to be a reasonably safe place compared to other places.
On the flip side though, it must be SO hard to survive on $200.00 to $250.00 US a month when you go to Janets grocery store and see what things cost there for locals and tourists. It seems they would have to supplement their income, just to feed themselves. I just wish we were hearing about petty thefts more and less violence.
Steve

 

[Matilda]

last 3 major drug dealers arrested in Juan Dolio area were a Dominican member of the drug squad, an Italian and an American. Doesn't help does it? My Domincan friends say that before you wold just get held up by gun or knife point, but the problem is the victim can recognise you (no stockings here you see), so it is better to shoot them then you have more chance of getting away with it. My list to stop the murders:

1. Have stockings available in colmados
2. Make the jails nicer so people don't mind going there so much
3. Introduce fingerprint technology - the govt have copies of everyones fingerprints for cedulas - why the hell can't they get the technolgy to take fingerprints from crime scenes and match them - alll it takes is talcum power and sellotape, or am I wrong. Ever seen a Dominican or Haitian wearing gloves??
4. Is there a CID or detective brach of the police - if not, why not?
5. Get foreign embassies to put pressure on the govt and stop pussyfooting around. If tourism and investment slowed down that would not be too good for anyone.
6. Try and get rid of illegal weapons - not easy, but so many come from Haiti.

Don't suppose anyone of these will happen ...but here's hoping

Matilda

 

[gary short]

Point one...it should be mandatory that all bad guys wear stockings......over there heads..
Point three........I don't believe policing in the DR ;correct me if I'm wrong; involves any investigative skills.

 

[gary short]

Also point six......everybody over the age of six should be issued a weapon.

Imagine how polite everyone would be??????