Wave of Expat Murders

[Lambada]

4. Is there a CID or detective brach of the police - if not, why not?
5. Get foreign embassies to put pressure on the govt and stop pussyfooting around. If tourism and investment slowed down that would not be too good for anyone.Matilda

4. Well there is both DNI and DNCD but sometimes their organisational skills are concentrated on rooting out their own........rolleyes: This report in Diario Libre tonight indicates the sums of money distributed each week and the number of times staff are replaced
Diario Libre Online

5. Some of the other Caribbean islands are using policing from outside the island e.g. Scotland Yard
BBCCaribbean.com | Crime triggers fear of tourism backlash

I'd agree that the DR isn't the only Caribbean country facing this. Link is to a Reuters report of a year ago.
CDNN :: Crime Wave Swamps Caribbean Tourist Destinations

 

[BushBaby]

Point one...it should be mandatory that all bad guys wear stockings......over there heads..

& preferably the variety that do not allow air to pass through the mesh!!

Point three........I don't believe policing in the DR ;correct me if I'm wrong; involves any investigative skills.

You are incorrect Gary. Investigative skills include:

1. What is the word on the street?
2. Who is the easiest for us to target & get 'a result' by arresting?
3. What is the chance of us earning some money out of this & who is the best possible source (read 'Patsy') for this income?

Once the police know the answers to those questions, the 'Fall Guy' is determined & the press notified accordingly as to how to spin the 'Arrests' so as to PRE-determine the guilt!! ~ Grahame.

 

[Lambada]

Lambada is cautiously suggesting control 'by the numbers' and that freaked me out.

Well...................in tonight's Hoy - currently 1300 foreigners living in Cabarete. They are projecting in 5 years time, another 5000. Is that a good idea?
Bienvenidos al Hoy Digital

Course they could be meaning absentee owners but the same question remains.

 

[Chris]

Well...................in tonight's Hoy - currently 1300 foreigners living in Cabarete. They are projecting in 5 years time, another 5000. Is that a good idea?
Bienvenidos al Hoy Digital

Course they could be meaning absentee owners but the same question remains.

No, its not a good idea in my view. In the view of the developers it probably is a very exciting projection. But of course this type of growth in a little place like Cabarete will bring crime in its wake, unless it is planned growth.

I think the solution lies somewhere in between tightening the entry requirements to the country to keep the bad expat influence out, good policing and follow-up and a system where the alcalde has some power to plan growth and the ability to keep their town clean.

Come to think of it, perhaps we should lobby for a 'sheriff' for each town.

 

[Danny W]

"Is that a good idea?" Hey, it's not an idea, it's a fact. The area is exploding in growth and changing in character like thousands of other cities have done. It it a good thing that will help move the country into the 21st. century. - D

 

[batich]

Having only three beaches (one small and two very small) Sosua faces a big economico-ecological risk.

Development and growth always bring pollution with them. THere is no way to avoid it.

If environment deteriorates and beach water becomes unsuitable for swimming, Sosua loses 75% of its attractiveness right away. Anybody willing to go swimming in Puerto PLata?

No one will go to Sosua without beach. No tourists, nor ex-pats.
Home owners will be stuck with their houses that are losing their value. Business will go belly-up without visitors.

Growth and development (and OVER-development as long as we talk about tiny Sosua) is not an innocent and harmless thing. One percent of population gets rich (several leading builders, RE agents and lawyers), 99% - pay for it.

FRom my maybe limited DR experience I`d compare Sosua to Boca Chika. What was BC ten years ago and what happened to it now? Both ecology and safety wise. The current processes in Sosua look shockingly similar.

 

[AlaninDR]

Is DR the murder capital of the world? Seems to be what some are saying.
Therefore, i'm going to move since I live in Sosua. Maybe i'll go back to Texas.
Nope, can't do that. My father was murdered in his home in Texas.
Maybe i'll move to Warsaw, Poland. Nope, can't do that. My friend Annatole was killed when a staircase fell on him. Too much death everywhere.
Maybe i'll just move to the mountains. Nope, would have to contend the inevitable mud slides.
Can't live closer to the beach because of the "economico-ecological risk".
Boca Chica is much more appealing to me now than it was those many years ago but I still prefer Sosua. Maybe i'll have all of Sosua Beach to myself when the "current processes" take place.
What a thought. Me, alone on Sosua Beach. Watching the polluted water. Playing "Waltzing Matilda" until my player batteries run dead.
Only one concern then, which shell of a house to spend the night in?
I better lay in a stock of rum, it's going to be a long and lonely life.
But if the sky continues to fall, i'll hide in the unfinished convention center concrete block eyesore for protection.
No wonder I have ulcers.

 

[Rocky]

Is DR the murder capital of the world? Seems to be what some are saying.
Therefore, i'm going to move since I live in Sosua. Maybe i'll go back to Texas.
Nope, can't do that. My father was murdered in his home in Texas.
Maybe i'll move to Warsaw, Poland. Nope, can't do that. My friend Annatole was killed when a staircase fell on him. Too much death everywhere.
Maybe i'll just move to the mountains. Nope, would have to contend the inevitable mud slides.
Can't live closer to the beach because of the "economico-ecological risk".
Boca Chica is much more appealing to me now than it was those many years ago but I still prefer Sosua. Maybe i'll have all of Sosua Beach to myself when the "current processes" take place.
What a thought. Me, alone on Sosua Beach. Watching the polluted water. Playing "Waltzing Matilda" until my player batteries run dead.
Only one concern then, which shell of a house to spend the night in?
I better lay in a stock of rum, it's going to be a long and lonely life.
But if the sky continues to fall, i'll hide in the unfinished convention center concrete block eyesore for protection.
No wonder I have ulcers.

Make room for me, I'm sticking it out with you, but I'm kicking Chicken Little's ass out.

 

[Onions&carrots]

More foreigners means

Yes I do believe you, we know 'squeaky clean' personnel. But that sort of knowledge does take years to acquire. One of the problems for new expats is knowing who to trust and building up the right contacts in the right places.

I'm glad the colonel has it all under control in Ocoa, but if you promote it too much, O&C, it could become another Sosua...............

If more foreigners are moving there every year, then it's safe to say that things aren't that bad after all. I guess that's the equation that counts. When and if the ratios change, then you have a problem. In the meantime more foreigners = things are pretty stable.

This brings up an interesting point. How many foreigners are flocking to Jamaica? Is it increasing or decreasing? Are their total numbers decreasing in Jamaica?

 

[Lambada]

No, its not a good idea in my view. In the view of the developers it probably is a very exciting projection. But of course this type of growth in a little place like Cabarete will bring crime in its wake, unless it is planned growth.

My concern is what happens when you have too many 'haves' living very close to many 'have nots'. And foreigners are perceived as 'haves' whatever they might themselves think. Dominicans are not normally envious people; they will be genuinely happy for you if you do well. But I'm wondering if the 'national character' is about to change.............simply because there are too many 'rich' foreigners in one place. And I'm talking here about good Dominicans, who as we all know are feeling the pinch recently - probably even more so after Fiscal Reform announcement tonight.

Then add to this mix the bad Dominicans (drug dealers etc) and yes I would agree crime will follow. I don't know what a 'reasonable' percentage would be in any given area (?no more than 25% foreigners). I'm reminded of how Las Terrenas used to be 5 years ago - what was the percentage there, 15%?

 

[tflea]

Shi Happens

I guess me, Alan and Marco will bunk together. All this b.s. about crime escapes me greatly. I have friends on the south coast, the north coast, the east coast and ain't EVER heard of MANY of them having a crime problem, AT ALL. You come here looking for a RD$500 hoe, you get what you pay for. I lived in Miami for a long time and here in Sosua, at least, is about as safe as I've seen living anywhere, including Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Costa Rica, USVI, Aruba, St. Maarten, St. Lucia, Mexico, you name it. If you live among poor people, you're gonna get hit I don't care where you live. If you flash your cash, you're gonna get hit, I don't care where you are. I see that supid is as stupid does, and sorry folks, of all the murders, break-ins, upsets and ****ed-offed people here it is largely due to stupidity, arrogance and lack of respect for where one lives. I'm investing here and will continue to do so, and if you have a property you wanna sell at a rock botom price because you gotta go, plz let me know. I might just take it off your
hands. PM me with your location and price.

 

[gary short]

HHHHHHEYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........pm me first......

 

[Lambada]

I see that supid is as stupid does, and sorry folks, of all the murders, break-ins, upsets and ****ed-offed people here it is largely due to stupidity, arrogance and lack of respect for where one lives. I'm investing here and will continue to do so, and if you have a property you wanna sell at a rock botom price because you gotta go, plz let me know. I might just take it off your
hands. PM me with your location and price.

I'd normally agree that stupid is as stupid does, but recently we've had examples which go against this. Good people, who were not arrogant or disrespectful: the gentleman from Puerto Plata was not mixing with 500 pesos hoes, that I know. Just wanted to put the record straight out of respect to his memory. As HB said, he was 'quality all the way'.

But I see where you're going....... you want a cull of stupid expats. Can't disagree with that. Then it'll be back to how it was 10 years+ ago and the percentage will probably be about right. Make it safer for everyone left as the adjective 'estupido' will not automatically be put in front of gringo.

PS. I'm not leaving either. These days I get more concerned when I visit UK once every 3 years..............

 

[Rocky]

I'd normally agree that stupid is as stupid does, but recently we've had examples which go against this. Good people, who were not arrogant or disrespectful: the gentleman from Puerto Plata was not mixing with 500 pesos hoes, that I know. Just wanted to put the record straight out of respect to his memory. As HB said, he was 'quality all the way'.

If I may...... I don't think tflea linked 500 pesos whores exclusively to murder.
We also held Lloyd in high esteem.
He did fit the profile though, of people who are at risk.
The haves, living next door to the have-nots, and having unresolved major conflicts with some locals.
There is no blame in these words.
Simply observations, that are common to most of the people who get murdered/attacked.

PS. I'm not leaving either. These days I get more concerned when I visit UK once every 3 years..............

And then there were four.

 

[cuas]

I am married to an African-American. He is retired, I work. I hate coming home and finding his friends home. One day my watch dissapeared. He was angry at me for leaving my watch on the diningroom table. I told him it was his fault because dominican-men do not bring basura to their home, they meet them at the bar or some other places.
My father had a bakery. We were never robbed. When he had to pay the workers he always told them he had to wait for someone to bring money or for somebody to pay him.
On Sundays he went out on parandas with his brothers but only carried enough money for the day.
He used to play domino in front of the panaderia and if he had to bet or buy somebody a beer he was telling one of us "Tell your mother I need Xpesos" or tell the lady in the colmado to give you a beer and I will pay her later. He was never flashing money neither his children.
We lived in a bad neighborhood (Los Minas-SD).

You cannot tell a dominican-worker in his face "I am not going to pay you, get out. This is looking for trouble. This person is counting on this money (earned or not) and will do whatever it takes to get his money. Just tell this person " I do not have the money right now, come later and we will talk it over. It will give you time to come down and reasoning with the person, let him understand that you do not owe him money but you are willing help him and give him some money.
When a dominican tells somebody "I am not going to pay you". He knows what is coming and somebody will tell him what theperson will do to him and he will be prepared and neighbors will be ready to intervene.
This doesnot happens with ex-pat. No feedback.

I agree with Rocky. He knows dominican people.

 

[Lambada]

And then there were four.

5. There are 2 of us Plus dogs.

Yes I'd agree about the inadviseability of living in a remote area. But then I personally wouldn't live in a 'foreigner compound' either; those also can be targets. I'd also agree that there are behaviours which can make oneself a target: the sort AZB identifies, the unresolved employment issues, the involvement in a fatal traffic accident (guilty or not) etc etc.

But then there are crime victims who know the score here, do everything right and just happen to have a computer or something like that which a ladron wants.

And also there are those who see something they were 'not supposed to' and maybe don't even realise it. If they realised it, they could go into 'shortsighted' mode or 'dumb blond' mode. There's a skill in being alert without appearing to be alert; to some people it is second nature but to some it isn't. There is also the skill of being able to pick up non-verbal messages; in this culture some of those can be amazingly subtle, almost imperceptible. I feel relatively sure now that not a lot gets by me, but it has taken a few years to get there. And somehow I don't think one can accelerate the process.

 

[macocael]

dumb blonde mode

And also there are those who see something they were 'not supposed to' and maybe don't even realise it. If they realised it, they could go into 'shortsighted' mode or 'dumb blond' mode. There's a skill in being alert without appearing to be alert; to some people it is second nature but to some it isn't.

dumb blonde mode = hacer el chivo loco. A Dominican art form!

 

[Lambada]

dumb blonde mode = hacer el chivo loco. A Dominican art form!

Absolutely! And one a lot of foreigners would feel a lot more at home here if they mastered. Maybe you could do streaming video 'classes' and sell them to relocation companies...............

 

[macocael]

Ha! that is not a bad idea Lambada, etiquette classes for foreign companies: how to navigate Dominican society. Not bad! Between that and high class tours in the colonial zone, I will have it made!

 

[DominicanScotty]

So true

That is so sad. I remember when I joined this board that people were told not to even say the word "drug" on the street or were warned if they were into recreational drugs to please go visit another Island.

How the world changes in 7 years

So sad indeed.

The "D" word was forbidden....not too long ago too. Pray that the campesino doesn't get back into power or it will get worse, alot worse.