What country will the DR be similar to?

[Lucifer]

The conclusion must be the DR doesn’t need an educational system because they are good at so many other things.

Absolutely positively!

Dominicans are good at "teteos": Hanging out at a colmadón, while imbibing and shouting over the eardrum-rupturing Dembow emanating from all angles.
Dominicans are good at asking for loans, then not paying it back, not mañana, not ever!
Dominicans are good at getting a doctor's excuse, a licencia, in order to avoid returning to work after minor ailments - a 30-day vacation.
Dominicans are good at showing off just about anything of value.
Dominicans are experts at cheating and committing plagiarism AT ALL LEVELS of their education.
Dominicans are interested in one thing: money... your money, her money, the entity's money, their employers' money, his sister's money, her nephew's money, etc... and "it don't matter" whose money it is, they want it, and they want it now, be it dollars, pounds, Euros, pesos...
"It don't matter", just DAME MI CUALTO Y DÁMELO AHORA.

You could ask 100 Dominicans if they would return a lost wallet full of money to its rightful owner, if the wallet included the owner's ID and address or telephone number.
I've asked that exact question to a small group, AND ALL wanted to know how much money was in the wallet.
But it ain't your money, mi gente. Why count it?

ALL of 'em opted to keep all the loot. Apparently, it was a no-brainer, an easy-peasy decision.

 

[windeguy]

No, rather anyone that thinks a better education is the panacea for a better country should look how much better or worst are other better educated countries with a similar or the same cultural affinities as the DR.

This thinking kind of reminds me of some people who say that if the DR would had been colonized by Britain it would had been a better and wealthier country. While focus in countries like Australia, Canada, the USA, etc gives that impression, in reality countries that were part of the British Empire are considerably poorer than the DR. Even places like Jamaica, which is better than most countries that emerged from the former British Empire and is much closer to the DR than say Canada in terms to how the society functions, the DR itself is better off than them. Lets not even talk about countries like Kenya, Nigeria, India, Bangladesh, Pakistan and other countries from the former British Empire that would be more likely for the DR to resemble had it too been colonized by the English, given those are much closer to typical countries that emerged from that empire than say Australia. Countries that emerged from the Spanish Empire are much better than those from the British Empire and, in fact, the DR is better off than those typical countries minus a handful.

I think the above analysis requires more further analysis. As I read it, it makes little sense to me. If the DR had English as a first language, it might have done better than it does. We will never know.

 

[Auryn]

Simply not to expect the DR to change much given that in many cases other countries similar to the DR and with a better education system are worse thsn the DR and in other cases not much better.

This parts are from the 2 volumes book (the appendix) published by Moreau de Saint Mery over 200 years ago precisely describing every aspect of what is now the DR. Notice how the ancestors of most Dominicans (since then much has happened with different population growth of each type and the continuing relaxed attitude towards mixing plus immigration) are described. I'm sure you'll notice the education part.

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“59. They have hardly any education”.

Your conclusion seems to be that quoting an 18th century mixed race Frenchman (who mainly focused on race) proves that nothing has changed in 200 years?

I assume this is from his Description topographique, physique, civile, politique et historique de la partie française de l’isle Saint-Domingue, in which he was very concerned with ordering and categorizing races from his 200+ year old colonial lens.

I personally love history but more often than not, it helps us learn what not to do as opposed to providing any sort of realistic model for modern practice.

Any argument against the benefit of improving education, whether that be by comparison to “better” and “worse” countries or absolving to the suggestion that Dominicans haven’t changed since 1790, is weak and unconvincing.

 

[Nadie21]

Anyone can disagree, but the data is out there regardless of what anyone thinks.

Anyone can manipulate data. I think you need Education

 

[NALs]

Anyone can manipulate data. I think you need Education

lol

I'm better educated than most of the population and in a field that has to do with money. You?

 

[NALs]

“59. They have hardly any education”.

Your conclusion seems to be that quoting an 18th century mixed race Frenchman (who mainly focused on race) proves that nothing has changed in 200 years?

Need more books from later years?

I assume this is from his Description topographique, physique, civile, politique et historique de la partie française de l’isle Saint-Domingue, in which he was very concerned with ordering and categorizing races from his 200+ year old colonial lens.

Nope, although I have his two volumes on the French side. I does comes from his two volumes of the Spanish side. I also have plenty of books written by various authors from before the 1790's when he published the volumes of the French side first all the way to the 20th century. Many correspondence spanning the centuries in addition to maps of the entire island and specific areas, specific plans, etc. You?

I personally love history but more often than not, it helps us learn what not to do as opposed to providing any sort of realistic model for modern practice.

Seems to me as excuses.

Any argument against the benefit of improving education, whether that be by comparison to “better” and “worse” countries or absolving to the suggestion that Dominicans haven’t changed since 1790, is weak and unconvincing.

Perfect way of saying the DR will be perfect with better education when it will not. Like I said in another thread, right now there are over 1 million Dominicans in the USA with hundreds of thousands with education from American schools, the entire world at their feet. Oh, that Dominicans continue to be among the poorest people in the USA?

Lets look at Puerto Ricans since maybe for Dominicans it could be simply a case of time. Puerto Ricans have been immigrating en masse to the USA since the 1940's and through a door not open to many Dominicans at first given they are all US citizens from birth. Right now more people tied to Puerto Rico live in the continental USA than in Puerto Rico. All this time subject to American education with a US government that is willing to pay for a university degree to anyone from an economic disadvantsged position. All that is needed are good grades. Now the big question, why Puerto Ricans continue to be among the poorest people in the USA, even poorer than most Hispanic? They have the world at their feet, but all this time they haven't done much with it.

What percent of Puerto Rico's population depends on government help from Washington DC? For how long have they been under US rule?

A better education will not make the DR the developed well functioning place in the minds of many.

 

[NALs]

I think the above analysis requires more further analysis. As I read it, it makes little sense to me. If the DR had English as a first language, it might have done better than it does. We will never know.

I have met a few Dominicans who got scholarships from the US government based on their public education given to them by the Dominican government. Very good grades is the main reason. The big question is how were these people able to get scholarships to American universities and become professionals while their peers, many of whom they still know because some are cousins, weren't able to qualify even for scholarships given by the Dominican government, much less the US? The same teachers, the same subjects, the same public education that received the same resources and yet, the results are very different.

 

[cavok]

You said very good grades was the main reason(?).

 

[aarhus]

You said very good grades was the main reason(?).

Nals is trying to prove that with 12 million people you will have some who are well educated and thats enough for the DR.

 

[aarhus]

I have met a few Dominicans who got scholarships from the US government based on their public education given to them by the Dominican government. Very good grades is the main reason. The big question is how were these people able to get scholarships to American universities and become professionals while their peers, many of which they still know because some are cousins, weren't able to qualify even for scholarships given by the Dominican government, much less the US? The same teachers, the same subjects, the same public education that received the same resources and yet, the results are very different.

Some people have a lot of resilience and prevail against all odds.

 

[bob saunders]

I have met a few Dominicans who got scholarships from the US government based on their public education given to them by the Dominican government. Very good grades is the main reason. The big question is how were these people able to get scholarships to American universities and become professionals while their peers, many of which they still know because some are cousins, weren't able to qualify even for scholarships given by the Dominican government, much less the US? The same teachers, the same subjects, the same public education that received the same resources and yet, the results are very different.

Difference in intelligence and motivation allowed them the ability to teach themselves. Many people succeed despite the obstacles in front of them, poverty, poor education system, single parents, physical handicaps...etc.

 

[aarhus]

Difference in intelligence and motivation allowed them the ability to teach themselves. Many people succeed despite the obstacles in front of them, poverty, poor education system, single parents, physical handicaps...etc.

I like this comment a lot

 

[Nadie21]

lol

I'm better educated than most of the population and in a field that has to do with money. You?

What do You call “better educated”? because your comments are shallow, i.e lack substance and worst appear to be one sided. you really embarrass yourself with your one-sided banter. And therein you only deny any problems in this country by citing that DR has everything it needs and should remain as such.
My education? I don’t need to tell you anything. But yours seems very doubtful as are your comments. By the way i had to laugh putting the DR and St Barts in the same category. Been to St Barts yet?

 

[Nadie21]

lol

I'm better educated than most of the population and in a field that has to do with money. You?

Money yes..what about brains?

 

[Naked_Snake]

Need more books from later yearz?

Nope, although I have his two volumes on the French side. I does comes from his two volumes of the French side. I also have plenty of books written by various authors from before the 1790's when he published the volumes of the French side first all the way to the 20th century. Many corespondence spanning the centuries in addition to maps of the entire island and specific areas, specific plans, etc. You?

Seems to me as excuses.


Perfect way of saying the DR will be perfect with better education when it will not. Like I said in another thread, right now there are over 1 million Dominicans in the USA with hundreds of thousands with education from American schools, the entire world at their feet. Oh, that Dominicans continueto be among the poorest peoplein the USA?

Let's look at Puerto Ricans since maybe for Dominicans its simply a case of time. Puerto Ricans have been immigrating en masse to the USA since the 1940's and through a door not open to many Dominicans st first given they are all US citizens from birth. Right now more people tied to Puerto Rico live in the continental USA than in Puerto Rico. All this time subject to American education with a US government that is willing to pay for a university degree to anyone from an economic disavantaged position. All that is needed are good grades. Now the big question, why Puerto Ricans continue to be among the poorest people in the USA, even poorer than most Hispanic? They have the world at their feet, but all this time they haven't done much with it.

What percent of Puerto Rico's population depends on government help from Washington DC? For how long have they been under US rule?

A better education will not make the DR the developed well functioning place in the minds of many.

I partially disagree with you. We only need to see Spain's very own case. Before the 90's they used to be no better than your middle of the road Latin American country. Thirty years down the line with educational and social reforms and you have quite the transformed country, down to even having the same social liberalism seen in Anglo countries.

 

[Nadie21]

Need more books from later yearz?

Nope, although I have his two volumes on the French side. I does comes from his two volumes of the French side. I also have plenty of books written by various authors from before the 1790's when he published the volumes of the French side first all the way to the 20th century. Many corespondence spanning the centuries in addition to maps of the entire island and specific areas, specific plans, etc. You?

Seems to me as excuses.


Perfect way of saying the DR will be perfect with better education when it will not. Like I said in another thread, right now there are over 1 million Dominicans in the USA with hundreds of thousands with education from American schools, the entire world at their feet. Oh, that Dominicans continueto be among the poorest peoplein the USA?

Let's look at Puerto Ricans since maybe for Dominicans its simply a case of time. Puerto Ricans have been immigrating en masse to the USA since the 1940's and through a door not open to many Dominicans st first given they are all US citizens from birth. Right now more people tied to Puerto Rico live in the continental USA than in Puerto Rico. All this time subject to American education with a US government that is willing to pay for a university degree to anyone from an economic disavantaged position. All that is needed are good grades. Now the big question, why Puerto Ricans continue to be among the poorest people in the USA, even poorer than most Hispanic? They have the world at their feet, but all this time they haven't done much with it.

What percent of Puerto Rico's population depends on government help from Washington DC? For how long have they been under US rule?

A better education will not make the DR the developed well functioning place in the minds of many.

 

[Nadie21]

I really think DR1 needs to look at this guys pompous wrongheaded misinformation.

 

[Naked_Snake]

What do You call “better educated”? because your comments are shallow, i.e lack substance and worst appear to be one sided. you really embarrass yourself with your one-sided banter. And therein you only deny any problems in this country by citing that DR has everything it needs and should remain as such.
My education? I don’t need to tell you anything. But yours seems very doubtful as are your comments. By the way i had to laugh putting the DR and St Barts in the same category. Been to St Barts yet?

He has a point regarding the rest of the islands, though (Jamaica included). I'd say that better than DR would be only Bahamas, Barbados and Trinidad and Tobago, and this because of particular circumstances. And Barbados itself might run new risks under its new republican arrangement, so don't discount us surpassing them yet.

 

[Auryn]

Need more books from later yearz?

Nope, although I have his two volumes on the French side. I does comes from his two volumes of the French side. I also have plenty of books written by various authors from before the 1790's when he published the volumes of the French side first all the way to the 20th century. Many corespondence spanning the centuries in addition to maps of the entire island and specific areas, specific plans, etc. You?

Seems to me as excuses.


Perfect way of saying the DR will be perfect with better education when it will not. Like I said in another thread, right now there are over 1 million Dominicans in the USA with hundreds of thousands with education from American schools, the entire world at their feet. Oh, that Dominicans continueto be among the poorest peoplein the USA?

Let's look at Puerto Ricans since maybe for Dominicans its simply a case of time. Puerto Ricans have been immigrating en masse to the USA since the 1940's and through a door not open to many Dominicans st first given they are all US citizens from birth. Right now more people tied to Puerto Rico live in the continental USA than in Puerto Rico. All this time subject to American education with a US government that is willing to pay for a university degree to anyone from an economic disavantaged position. All that is needed are good grades. Now the big question, why Puerto Ricans continue to be among the poorest people in the USA, even poorer than most Hispanic? They have the world at their feet, but all this time they haven't done much with it.

What percent of Puerto Rico's population depends on government help from Washington DC? For how long have they been under US rule?

A better education will not make the DR the developed well functioning place in the minds of many.

Why on earth would you be so vehemently arguing that improving education for Dominican children has no benefit?

You can provide all the examples and comparisons you want, but the current state of public education is not acceptable.

Given the disadvantaged positions many Dominican children are born into, I would never agree that they’re hopeless . They deserve the chance to improve their lives and have the opportunities that education provides.

This argument is absolutely nothing short of egregious coming from a moderator.

 

[bob saunders]

I really think DR1 needs to look at this guys pompous wrongheaded misinformation.

You a liberal?