what's your opinion?????

[Tallman1680]

Does anyone here think that a Dominican that was raise and educated in the United States would do a good jod in DR as a politician??? (Senador or Diputado), looking at what our current presidente is doing in his goverment??
And if so do you think people would vote for him/her????

 

[Chirimoya]

It worked for Leonel!

 

[A.Hidalgo]

It worked for Leonel!

Yep, twice. First presidential period 1996 to 2000.
Second period from 2004 till 2008.

 

[Texas Bill]

It would certainly break the current "mindset" of Dominican Politics by introducing more sophistication to the mix.

Texas Bill

 

[Don Juan]

Yes and no.

That depends on what you'd call a "good" politician. Trujillo was good at staying in power and stabilizing the country. there was real relative prosperity back them and the people actually loved him. Was he good?..... Hmmmm.-- Now, there's Hugo Chavez. A populist that is good to & for the poor underclass. For the most part, he is loved in Venezuela, Cuba, Bolivia and possibly, Nicaragua. Is he "good"? That's debatable. Neither had/has a formal education in the US.

If you were to define "good" in the sense that he/she knows how to make the right decisions that benefits the greater number of people, then I'd have to agree that a foreign education probably matters a great deal in formulating what is best for the people thereby earning the title of "good".

I think Leonel Fernandez is good. But not necessarily because he has a degree from a major university in US and seemingly, knows what he's doing, but because most people feel he genuinely cares about them.

Now let's consider Bachelet, the newly elected president of Chile. She studied in the US, has a degree and, it is reported, speaks several languages fluently.... But will she have the cunning of Trujillo? Be a populist like Chavez? ..Have the intuitive knowledge of Fernandez?.. That remains to be seen. Lots of heads of state have been good for and to their respective countries, but not always for the right reasons.....

 

[miamor]

Motivation

I assume you said United States raised & educated as an example of any G8 country. I wouldn't think it would matter if the person was a Dominican who was raised and educated in England or France or Canada. If your question is can a Dominican raised and educated in a G8 nation be a good DR politician, then the obvious answer is - that depends on the person and their motives and who is behind them pulling the strings, just like any other politician in any other country.

The out of country education seems to work for Leonel, but Balaguer studied in France and Mej?a went to North Carolina State so I don't think it has to do with where politicians are raised and educated.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Tallman 1680,

I?ve been meaning to comment on your thread but have been busy of late but have some time now to comment.

As your question rightfully questions that which pertains to Dominicans I will state that my answer relates to people from all corners of the globe.

A Dominican doesn?t need to be raised in the US to be exceptional at his profession but it may help. I think that it is imperative that he have some if not the most of his schooling in the US or any other country other then the DR. This is not meant to be a reflection on the school system here but rather as an indicator as to how much time the individual has been out of his country therefore allowing him to live with and experience the customs, culture and procedures of another country or countries. Having the experience to see another way of doing things affords him the opportunity to adapt those things that he believes are good and correct and discarding those that he feels will be detrimental in conducting his duties. Just going to visit another country doesn?t allow you the time to learn these different customs and procedures and therefore requires a length of time being spent in a foreign country. That is why being raised in another country or spending maybe 4 years or more going to school in that country will allow you sufficient time to acquire those procedures and customs that will serve your purpose.

The history of the DR is filled with such people that traveled abroad to study then came back to their mother land and have proven to be valuable assets to the Dominican Republic. An example of this would be that of Juan Pablo Duarte who was born in 1813 and was sent to England in 1828. After studying he toured France and Spain and returned to the DR in 1833 and the rest is history. There was also Buenaventura B?ez who studied in France and returned, Francisco Henr?quez y Carvajal who studied in France and returned and a host of others. People such as Juan Bosch who went elsewhere to live in exile returned to help try to better the DR and brought back with them many things that they had learned in other countries.

When you are born and raised in one country without ever having the benefit of experiencing how things may be done differently or better then you are destined to repeat the ?same-old-same-old?. That is why I think LF is having such a hard time bringing about change. He is surrounded by so many ?same-old-same olds? and it?s an uphill battle for him because they know no other way and are very content with the only way they know.

A similar situation would be that of democracy. This is a new thing to this country and over 90% of the population has no idea as to what it is due to never having experienced it before.

As to your question concerning voting in this country let me say this. I think as long as the politicians continue handing out sheets of metal, bags of concrete 100 and 500 peso notes and such things it will never matter if the politician can read and write, where he was raised or educated he will get elected. This is due to the lack of education and the DR being in such a state of indigence.

Rick

 

[suarezn]

Hey Tallman have you met Talldrink? Maybe you guys can hook up and have tallkids...Sorry couldn't help myself.

On a more serious note...

I do believe that visiting/living in other countries definitely opens your mind and gives you exposure to other ways of doing things which is a good thing. Would that make you a "good" politician in The DR? That all depends on the person as it has already been mentioned here. First thing is that for you to qualify for certain positions you must have been born in The DR (Not sure if diputado is one of them), but definitely President and Senator.

In Leonel's case he was born in The DR then moved to The US. He was educated in The US only through high school. He then moved back to The DR and went to college at UASD. I think this gave him a limited vision of what life can be outside of The DR (thus his insistence in trying to turn DR into a small version of NY City) while at the same time giving him a good understanding of how politics work in The DR (UASD was at the time THE center of political subversion, learning, etc...). He understands that even if you do have the vision of seeing The DR become a "Nueva Yol Chiquito" you have to pay the piper and play ball with the people who really control The DR (A few families, military, etc). I believe he would like to fight corruption, but knows he can't go too far before he starts losing the support of these factions. He's studied Balaguer and Machiaveli and he's becoming very good at playing the game...

I think a person who only has the US experience would not make a very successful politician in The DR. You have to live it and learn it on the ground down there, not just the theory...You can have the best of intentions, but in the end if you don't give out funditas and envelopes stuffed with pesos you're probably not going to win anything.

I can tell you that the first battle you'd have to fight will be that your opponent will paint you as someone who comes from the outside and doesn't really understand the Dominican plight...someone who grew up with all the comforts of life (even if you didn't), thus doesn't know what is like to be poor, what is like to live without electricity and water, what is like to not have enough food to feed your kids, etc, etc, etc...

I think anyone who comes from outside The DR and wants to run for any office has to first live down there 24X7 for at least 8 years and become very involved with the community, and with whatever political party you align yourself with...

 

[Tallman1680]

The reason why I am asking this questions is because I am planning to move to DR and run for Diputado in 2010, I am US citizen born in the Dominican Republic I live there (DR) until I was 15 and live in a very poor neighbohood (Los Minas) in the capital,my family was without electricity and water, etc....
I am now 29, I graduated from both High School and college here (USA) I hold a business adm. and marketing degree from Berkeley college, I been involve in polical groups here but I feel that many Dominicans would't vote for a candidate like me because of where I was school and raise.
I would like to run for Diputado for Santo Domingo Este.

 

[A.Hidalgo]

You are a brave man. Why not try public office here in the states, or you feel you can shake up and contribute something to the political system in the DR.

 

[NALs]

The reason why I am asking this questions is because I am planning to move to DR and run for Diputado in 2010, I am US citizen born in the Dominican Republic I live there (DR) until I was 15 and live in a very poor neighbohood (Los Minas) in the capital,my family was without electricity and water, etc....
I am now 29, I graduated from both High School and college here (USA) I hold a business adm. and marketing degree from Berkeley college, I been involve in polical groups here but I feel that many Dominicans would't vote for a candidate like me because of where I was school and raise.
I would like to run for Diputado for Santo Domingo Este.

You should do some research as to how could such action affect your U.S. citizenship status.

Unless you have dual citizenship (and even if that is true, it would not hurt doing a little research), pleging allegiance to another government could compromise your US citizenship.

This means working for or being a part of another government.

Again, do some research about this.

BTW, remember, the only limitations you will encounter in your life are those you create for yourself in your own mind!

My point? Don't discourage yourself for running for office in the US or anywhere by what you "think could happen". Focus on your strength, focus on what you know is most important and on what you plan to do, and go ahead an do it!

Don't put attention to the naysayers, believe in yourself and you will succeed. And if you don't succeed the first time, try again and again while incorporating what you learned in the process.

Victory goes not to the most able man, but those who think they can!

I forgot from who I took that last quote, but I believe in it with heart and soul!

-NALs

 

[Rick Snyder]

Tallman,

As this is 2006 and if you haven?t moved back to your country yet then you will not be eligible to run for Diputado in 2010 according to your constitution. Article 25 says you must have resided in the jurisdiction you wish to be elected in for the preceding 5 years leading up to the election.

Having spent 14 years in the US you have had the opportunity to fully experience life and its workings outside of the DR. You spent enough time in the DR to be able to equate to life here and you had the added experience of having lived the life of poverty prior to your move. Let me mention that the vast majority of politicians of all countries were born rich or of the upper middleclass and therefore not able to say that they understand how the poor-man feels or what he is going through. If you haven?t lived it then you can?t honestly relate.

As I mentioned in my post earlier concerning those Dominicans that did in fact return to their native land. I would venture that the majority did so with the intension of trying to better the DR. I think this takes a person that has patriotism and a love of his country and has a mindset of helping his fellow countrymen without placing himself above everything else. Due to the condition that this country was and is in you can?t think they returned here to live a better life. Things like dictators, lack of water and electricity and other things should be a testament to that.

At this point let me applaud you if your desire is to in fact to return to your native land and try to make a difference. There is no doubt that the DR could use more people such as you to bring change about to a country that is crying out for same. Of course you can stay there and continue to try to live the American Dream and to better yourself and family or ?????????????????.

As to being able to get the Dominicans to vote for you is another matter but I think it could be done. I really don?t wish to expand on that at the present time but if you wish we can talk more on that subject.

Good luck in what ever you should decide to do.

Rick

 

[Tallman1680]

Thank you, all for your input, I was aware of the constitution stating that I must live in the desire are for 5 or more years, I currently own a property that I got back in 2004 in the area where I want to run for, and the reason that I travel so many times a year says that I only live in the USA part time, but my family does not support my idea about moving there full time and living my life, my job and house here, but this is a dream that I had since I was 17 and I am really sure I can do a great job as a diputado, I have the urge to see the DR solve some of the issues that make everyday life so difficult for the majority of Dominicans, I want DR to be a model for all of Latin America, DR is a country fill with honest hard working people, rich in natural resorces that needs to just be put in the right track and be taken out of that old mentality of how to do things.

I want to help my homeland grow, became not a rich country, but a place where people can live and not think that they have to leave the country to feed their families, educated the kids or build a decent place to live.

My vision is that the average Dominican be able to get health care, good education and a safe enviroment to live, work and wach their families grow.
I want people to have the oportunity to get out of poverty by getting an education that will enable them to get a good job.

I want to try to make the country safe, and stable so more foreing investment gets here, prepare more professionals to bring more white collar jobs to DR, to create new laws to change the way people are hire by most companies.

Create a not a little New York but a 21st Century Dominican Republic.

 

[asopao]

Thank you, all for your input, I was aware of the constitution stating that I must live in the desire are for 5 or more years, I currently own a property that I got back in 2004 in the area where I want to run for, and the reason that I travel so many times a year says that I only live in the USA part time, but my family does not support my idea about moving there full time and living my life, my job and house here, but this is a dream that I had since I was 17 and I am really sure I can do a great job as a diputado, I have the urge to see the DR solve some of the issues that make everyday life so difficult for the majority of Dominicans, I want DR to be a model for all of Latin America, DR is a country fill with honest hard working people, rich in natural resorces that needs to just be put in the right track and be taken out of that old mentality of how to do things.

I want to help my homeland grow, became not a rich country, but a place where people can live and not think that they have to leave the country to feed their families, educated the kids or build a decent place to live.

My vision is that the average Dominican be able to get health care, good education and a safe enviroment to live, work and wach their families grow.
I want people to have the oportunity to get out of poverty by getting an education that will enable them to get a good job.

I want to try to make the country safe, and stable so more foreing investment gets here, prepare more professionals to bring more white collar jobs to DR, to create new laws to change the way people are hire by most companies.

Create a not a little New York but a 21st Century Dominican Republic.

sorry to break your excitement, but if you've adquired a foreign nationality. I doubt that you can run for a politcal position in DR. I think you better check with the constitution.

Think about it, the rich elites want for the " absent dominicans" to adquire foreign nationalities, so they can " sweep you off" if you try to rock the boat " eg. improving the life of the poor".

They want all the poor people out,to go adn live in some rat infested ghettoes somewhere in the u.s, having the send their " chelitos" to feed their families back in D.R. or picking coffee in Puerto Rico.

They are the Buenaventura Baezes, they sell the country to the highest bidder, don't give a damn about the little man, just think about themselves, living like kings.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Tallman,

Once again I applaud you on your decision to want to help your country. Please don?t be discouraged by nay-sayers like asopao and Nal?s though there is total truth in what they stated aside from your ability to hold office here. With your explanation of owning land and your visits here then I think you have the residence law covered.

This article might be of interest to you. Disregard most of the comments to the editor because they know not what they are talking about.
http://www.dominicantoday.com/app/article.aspx?id=16842

Of the 151 countries that allow dual citizenship the US is the only one that also allows its citizens to vote in other countries, hold government office in other countries, serve in the military forces of other countries and a host of other rights.

President LF holds duel citizenship;
Independent Florida Alligator - NEWS

The DR constitution, Article 25 says, ?Para ser Diputado se requiere las mismas condiciones que para ser Senador:, and Article 22 says, ?Para ser Senador se requiere ser dominicano en pleno ejercicio de los derechos civiles y pol?ticos, haber cumplido veinticinco a?os de edad y ser nativo de la circunscripci?n territorial que lo elija o haber residido en ella por lo menos cinco a?os consecutivos.?

I fail to see where in the constitution it says that a Dominican can?t hold dual citizenship to hold a public office.

I really hope you in fact follow your dream.

Rick

?There is only one thing that makes a dream impossible to achieve: the fear of failure.?
~ Paulo Coelho

 

[Tallman1680]

Thank you, Rick for the information.

But even if I have to resign to my US citizenship and just keep my Dominican status I will do that, I want people to know that I am willing to do anything to get to public office in DR and do a great job.

I am proud of where I came from, I love DR and it's people.
I am proud to be an US citizen, but if it mean that I have to resign to the previlege of being one of it's citizen I will do it.

I will help DR became a better place to live.

 

[Rick Snyder]

Okay, now that we know where you?re coming from then let me discuss possible problems as I see them. Needless to say I?m no expert on the political workings here but after living here for 10 years some things become very apparent.

I have a Dominican friend that was going to run in this last election this year and he was going to run for Sindico here in El Seybo. He was planning to run under the PLD and he had been a Sindico about 15 years ago. The problem was that the prior Sindico was PLD and he decided to run again so my friend was persuaded to step aside so the individual could run for re-election. He won re-election and needless to say the individual did nothing for us in the prior four years so there is that certainty that he will do nothing for the next four years.

Regardless of who is running or what party is being represented I have yet to see a platform being established. The major problems that confront Dominicans on a large scale never get addressed by those seeking or holding office. I?m talking about things like education, healthcare, employment and the like. I don?t know if this is because it is considered the ?third rail? and therefore not touched or what. The only times these subjects seem to come up is when someone wishes to cast aspersions on those holding power.

Another thing I?ve noticed is the lack of organization. I am not talking about the occasional rallies that are held and booze and hats being handed out free and their being the things that seem to draw the participants. I?m talking about actual organization and planning. I?m not sure but I would think it would help in an individual?s chances for election. Then again maybe I have no idea as to what I?m talking about.

Also noticed. Very few women vote here in comparison to men but the females outnumber the men in the amount of people eligible to vote. Once again it seems that with the proper organization a person could set up a heck of a fight for election.

Just my 2 centavos.

Rick

 

[Hillbilly]

Tallman, you had better have DEEP POCKETS. It cost more than a million pesos just to get a nomination for Diputado. Plus the fact that you have no constituancy nor ar you well known in your area. You have good thoughts but a few years living there in Los Mina will be needed for you to learn how things work...

HB

 

[Rick Snyder]

Though I agree with HB as he states it the way it seems to be the problem is the million pesos. The reason I say this is because that isn't the cost of running for Diputado but rather the amount you may have to pay in bribes. As I assume that you would want to bring an end or diminish corruption then it is my opinion that you would have to comfront that monster with either paying as you go or confront it head-on. Eith way you are likely to lose.

On the other hand if you were to start out smaller such as Sindico or Regidor and try that route and win then you would have the first part of your career helping those in your town directly. Of course in reality you are liable to lose that race also. I don't know what to tell you.

It is going to be difficult regardless of which way you try to go but at the same time I don't want to try to discourage you either. The Dominican Republic needs a different type of politician to run due to the fact that the present system has been alive for so long and it's time for it to die if there is to be any help for the majority of the people.

On paper it is a new DR in that it is a democracy now. It has a fledgling of a constitution allowing all the basic rights and LF is presently trying to strengthen it. The military and police have also been going through changes and things appear to be getting better but the "same old-same olds" are still in office and it is they that are holding the Dominican people from reaping that which they are entitled to.

What do you think he should do HB? Wade into the stream up to his ankles? Just dip a toe in? Or do you think he should live in town a few years and get established before making any move?

Rick

 

[Tallman1680]

Hillbilly, I know that in order to drive a good campaing in DR, one need to have DEEP POCKETS, I have been planing this thing since Leonel was elected the first time (1996).

I own 3 properties in the state of MA and have some other assests in DR.
I am looking to spend from my own money and to get some people that belive in me to contribute to my political campaing, just like any other candidate does.

I am currently working with one of the presidential candidates and I get to see how he gets his contributions made, I will hold his name for now, but I now he got a great chance to win in DR.

I am hopping to sell or cash out the equity out this properties, so I can pay for some of my campaing, and get people to trust me and help out with my campaing.