AntiHatianismo

[jkc]

I know that there is HATRED against Haitians in the DR. But if this thing is taught in School, I think DR is DOOMED! How a serious Country would allow a teacher or for that matter its people to have so much Hatred against another people?
it is NON DEVELOPPMENT OR A THIRD WORLD MENTALITY? There will always be such thing where one nation has some animosity against another. However, to be teaching HATRED in school? Wow
I guess the DOMINICANS HAVE NEVER HAD A a good president! i Know for a fact that there was good black candidate ( whom i forget his name now) who never become president of DR Because he was tagged as being a descent from Haiti. I think it is Pena gomez?
I think that is purelye being UNEDUCATED! Imagine OBAMA running for PRESIDENT IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC!?

 

[AlterEgo]

I know that there is HATRED against Haitians in the DR. But if this thing is taught in School, I think DR is DOOMED! How a serious Country would allow a teacher or for that matter its people to have so much Hatred against another people?
it is NON DEVELOPPMENT OR A THIRD WORLD MENTALITY? There will always be such thing where one nation has some animosity against another. However, to be teaching HATRED in school? Wow
I guess the DOMINICANS HAVE NEVER HAD A a good president! i Know for a fact that there was good black candidate ( whom i forget his name now) who never become president of DR Because he was tagged as being a descent from Haiti. I think it is Pena gomez?
I think that is purelye being UNEDUCATED! Imagine OBAMA running for PRESIDENT IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC!?

Yes, his name was Pena Gomez. His Haitian ancestry never stopped him for running for anything, in fact he was in the midst of campaigning when he died. Jos? Francisco Pe?a G?mez - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've never been in a DR school, but I doubt they teach 'hate Haitians'. More likely they teach about the 22 year occupation by Haiti, and how it affected Dominicans. 27 de Febrero is a major holiday, like July 4th is to Americans. What that effect is on the students, I can't say. I do know there are Haitian kids in those public schools. I'm thinking maybe it's something like teaching about The Alamo in Texas.

 

[Wishing you well]

There isn't any hatred taught at DR schools.

 

[Wishing you well]

I know that there is HATRED against Haitians in the DR. But if this thing is taught in School, I think DR is DOOMED! How a serious Country would allow a teacher or for that matter its people to have so much Hatred against another people?

It isn't taught at schools. Where you get that from?

I guess the DOMINICANS HAVE NEVER HAD A a good president! i Know for a fact that there was good black candidate ( whom i forget his name now) who never become president of DR Because he was tagged as being a descent from Haiti. I think it is Pena gomez?

You answered your own question, his name was Pena-Gomez protege of Juan Bosh and led the PRD party for many years.

I think that is purelye being UNEDUCATED! Imagine OBAMA running for PRESIDENT IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC!?

How long did it take the USA to elect a black president, are you alleging Americans to be un-educated?

 

[malko]

Well in school at guananico, if they dont eat up their apple ( or whatever the snack is) its not the wolf who will eat u, but th Haitian......

 

[Wishing you well]

That is a voodoo reference which does happens

 

[delite]

Yes, his name was Pena Gomez. His Haitian ancestry never stopped him for running for anything, in fact he was in the midst of campaigning when he died. Jos? Francisco Pe?a G?mez - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've never been in a DR school, but I doubt they teach 'hate Haitians'. More likely they teach about the 22 year occupation by Haiti, and how it affected Dominicans. 27 de Febrero is a major holiday, like July 4th is to Americans. What that effect is on the students, I can't say. I do know there are Haitian kids in those public schools. I'm thinking maybe it's something like teaching about The Alamo in Texas.

AlterEgo,

If I recall correctly, I believe Pena Gomez had the masses of the people supporting his campaign, but due to the racial campaign propagated by Balaguer, he was cheated out of the presidential election at the time.

All Dominicans knew that election was rigged and the propaganda questioned his roots as being that of Haitian or of descent. Also, the fact that he was extremely dark, there were cartoons portraying him as a monkey or some sort of gorilla. Basically he was too "dark" for the elites and upper classes.

Balaguer, Trujillo's henchman and minister of propaganda, went on as president again then Lionel took over in the 1996 elections if I am correct.

I know you've been visiting there since the seventies, so maybe you can correct me if I am wrong. This was told to me by a prominent businessman who is a close friend of mine.

 

[Wishing you well]

"However, his party (PRD) did not support his nomination, arguing of the handicap posed by the impossible, even inconceivable notion that a black man, especially of Haitian descent, could become president. This is the result of the crippling fact that no politician who openly acknowledged African ancestry has ever been elected president of any Spanish-speaking country in Latin America.

Pe?a G?mez returned from exile several years later and even after successfully securing the presidential nomination in both 1990 and 1994, he ostensibly lost to Joaqu?n Balaguer. The government claimed that the 1994 election revealed a narrow victory over Pe?a G?mez, but it was the influence and support of the U.S. for Balaguer that allowed him to run away with the presidency, even though there was universal belief that the election had been fixed.

The negative publicity surrounding this election resulted in a shortened term of two years and an agreement for a new election in 1996. This incident was clearly racially motivated to intentionally prevent Pe?a G?mez from heading the country as its first black president. Conservatives, the ruling elite, and the United States, viewed Pe?a G?mez as a negative symbol of empowerment for black Dominicans and those of Haitian descent.

He was also seen as an embodiment of the 1965 Dominican civil war. In 1996, Pe?a G?mez lost for a third time to the current Dominican President, Leonel Fern?ndez, who was supported by Balaguer (before the latter?s death) and the conservative right wing. Each of these elections, which resulted in narrow defeats of Pe?a G?mez, were sullied with irregularities and fraud. There is no doubt that Pe?a G?mez actually had won at least one of these ballots, maybe two."

Quoted from this source: http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2009/4/19/31731/The-legacy-of-Dr-Jose-Francisco-Pena-Gomez

 

[delite]

I know that there is HATRED against Haitians in the DR. But if this thing is taught in School, I think DR is DOOMED! How a serious Country would allow a teacher or for that matter its people to have so much Hatred against another people?
it is NON DEVELOPPMENT OR A THIRD WORLD MENTALITY? There will always be such thing where one nation has some animosity against another. However, to be teaching HATRED in school? Wow
I guess the DOMINICANS HAVE NEVER HAD A a good president! i Know for a fact that there was good black candidate ( whom i forget his name now) who never become president of DR Because he was tagged as being a descent from Haiti. I think it is Pena gomez?
I think that is purelye being UNEDUCATED! Imagine OBAMA running for PRESIDENT IN THE DOMINICAN REPUBLIC!?

Jkc,

I, like others here, don't believe per say that "hatred" is being taught in the schools. I believe what is happening or has happened, is that some information regarding the occupation has been exaggerated or are plain lies. Remember the teachers are a product of this cycle therefore, innocently, they impart what they have learnt.

I visit the DR quite often and can honestly tell you that they are a tolerant people. There are intermarrying and other social intermingling. For example, ten percent of their population are Haitians. The government provide free education, healthcare, etc. to the Haitian refugees. The public health budget is inflated tremendously caring for Haitian women who cross the border or living illegally to give birth.

If nothing else, I want to leave the impression that in the majority, Dominicans are very generous to Haitians.

 

[AlterEgo]

AlterEgo,

If I recall correctly, I believe Pena Gomez had the masses of the people supporting his campaign, but due to the racial campaign propagated by Balaguer, he was cheated out of the presidential election at the time.

All Dominicans knew that election was rigged and the propaganda questioned his roots as being that of Haitian or of descent. Also, the fact that he was extremely dark, there were cartoons portraying him as a monkey or some sort of gorilla. Basically he was too "dark" for the elites and upper classes.

Balaguer, Trujillo's henchman and minister of propaganda, went on as president again then Lionel took over in the 1996 elections if I am correct.

I know you've been visiting there since the seventies, so maybe you can correct me if I am wrong. This was told to me by a prominent businessman who is a close friend of mine.

I'm not even close to a DR historian, I do vividly remember hearing Dominicans saying that all of Balaguer's elections were fixed. There wasn't even anger over it, more grudging acceptance. So many of them were still under the Trujillo/Balaguer spell. I had the impression that no one could have beat Balaguer that election.

That's not to say his color wasn't an issue at all, it could have been, but it wasn't in our family. The family who raised Pena Gomez were relatives of my mother-in-law [a Pena], and she knew him. Back before my time in the family, when he was being chased literally in the streets of SD, supposedly by someone Balaguer sent to kill him, he made it to my suegra's house, and she hid him under her bed. [I think I told that story once before, so apologies to those to heard it already]

 

[delite]

I'm not even close to a DR historian, I do vividly remember hearing Dominicans saying that all of Balaguer's elections were fixed. There wasn't even anger over it, more grudging acceptance. So many of them were still under the Trujillo/Balaguer spell. I had the impression that no one could have beat Balaguer that election.

That's not to say his color wasn't an issue at all, it could have been, but it wasn't in our family. The family who raised Pena Gomez were relatives of my mother-in-law [a Pena], and she knew him. Back before my time in the family, when he was being chased literally in the streets of SD, supposedly by someone Balaguer sent to kill him, he made it to my suegra's house, and she hid him under her bed. [I think I told that story once before, so apologies to those to heard it already]

Thanks for the history lesson.

 

[delite]

"However, his party (PRD) did not support his nomination, arguing of the handicap posed by the impossible, even inconceivable notion that a black man, especially of Haitian descent, could become president. This is the result of the crippling fact that no politician who openly acknowledged African ancestry has ever been elected president of any Spanish-speaking country in Latin America.

Pe?a G?mez returned from exile several years later and even after successfully securing the presidential nomination in both 1990 and 1994, he ostensibly lost to Joaqu?n Balaguer. The government claimed that the 1994 election revealed a narrow victory over Pe?a G?mez, but it was the influence and support of the U.S. for Balaguer that allowed him to run away with the presidency, even though there was universal belief that the election had been fixed.

The negative publicity surrounding this election resulted in a shortened term of two years and an agreement for a new election in 1996. This incident was clearly racially motivated to intentionally prevent Pe?a G?mez from heading the country as its first black president. Conservatives, the ruling elite, and the United States, viewed Pe?a G?mez as a negative symbol of empowerment for black Dominicans and those of Haitian descent.

He was also seen as an embodiment of the 1965 Dominican civil war. In 1996, Pe?a G?mez lost for a third time to the current Dominican President, Leonel Fern?ndez, who was supported by Balaguer (before the latter?s death) and the conservative right wing. Each of these elections, which resulted in narrow defeats of Pe?a G?mez, were sullied with irregularities and fraud. There is no doubt that Pe?a G?mez actually had won at least one of these ballots, maybe two."

Quoted from this source: http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2009/4/19/31731/The-legacy-of-Dr-Jose-Francisco-Pena-Gomez

Muchas gracias...well there's a long acrimonious relationship between Uncle Sam and Pe?a G?mez.

 

[Major448]

".... This is the result of the crippling fact that no politician who openly acknowledged African ancestry has ever been elected president of any Spanish-speaking country in Latin America. ....

Actually, this is not quite accurate. Mexico, for one, had a President who would be considered to be Black (mixed) in many places ...

The Americas? First Black and Native President: Vicente Guerrero | Beyond Victoriana
The Legacy of Vicente Guerrero, Mexico's First Black Indian President: Theodore G. Vincent: 9780813024226: Amazon.com: Books

Also, more recently, see Venezuela (Hugo Chavez was also of "mixed" race) ....
“Afrodescendants bid farewell to Hugo Chávez, Cimarrón | Chronicleworld's Weblog

 

[delite]

Actually, this is not quite accurate. Mexico, for one, had a President who would be considered to be Black (mixed) in many places ...

The Americas’ First Black and Native President: Vicente Guerrero | Beyond Victoriana
The Legacy of Vicente Guerrero, Mexico's First Black Indian President: Theodore G. Vincent: 9780813024226: Amazon.com: Books

Also, more recently, see Venezuela (Hugo Chavez was also of "mixed" race) ....
?€œAfrodescendants bid farewell to Hugo Chávez, Cimarrón | Chronicleworld's Weblog

Major448,

I believe the operative is "opening acknowledging" and not phenotypically speaking.

 

[Major448]

Major448,

I believe the operative is "opening acknowledging" and not phenotypically speaking.

Thanks ... both did, in fact, acknowledge it ... even if it wasn't publicized in their media or history books ....

 

[Naked_Snake]

i Know for a fact that there was good black candidate ( whom i forget his name now) who never become president of DR Because he was tagged as being a descent from Haiti. I think it is Pena gomez?

We have had presidents of Haitian descent already, namely, Ulises Heureaux (via his father), and Trujillo himself (via his maternal grandmother), but I don't think that there are too many people with good opinions of one and the other, more so in the case of Heureaux than Trujillo, since the former's mistakes regarding the country's foreign debt with foreign financial consortiums (see San Domingo Improvement Company of New York) would be the ones that would cause the Americans to invade the country in 1916.

 

[mountainannie]

I am by no means an expert because I have only been here ten years and am not married into a Dominican family. But from what I have heard a great deal of it depends on how educated you are and when .. also where you are from. The further from teh border you are, for instance, the more myths you are likely to belive about Haitians. The older, the more.. One friend, who is in her 90s and Very educated, tells about how she was told that they were cannibals. Ampther well educated friend, in her 40s, says that her mother, still warns her to be careful, if she was thinking, for instance of going to Barahona.. oh.. that is close to Haiti.

Domnicans are also under the belief that they are very generous to Haitians. Now this is a tricky subject and I want to put is so that Dominicans will not take offense because I know that both Dominicans and Haitians are very sensitive and take offensive easily. So let me give you this example. When there was the first egg boycott, I was up at the border and most of the Domnicans were shocked. Shocked really that Haiti had the power to enforce the boycott. And what I kept hearing was.. "we do so much for them" And I would ask "what do you do" And everyone would talk about the hospitals. And then, others even said, "we grow this extra food for them" As if this were a charitable event.. selling the food to the Haitians. Which, of course, it is not. As we are seeing now.

So I wanted to just ask.. now.. since most of what I have seen of Haitian Dominican relations is on the border and up in :as Terrenas .. where, for instance, Haitians work on the border for room and board, girls work basically as house servants for nothing, construction workers work for half of what Dominicans are paid and kept enclosed for 24 days before they are paid. *note I say these things knowing that most Dominicans never go to the places that I have gone to or interview Haitians as I have etc etc.. so please.. do not take offents..

It is true that Domincan hospitals help Haitian mothers give birth and educate these children through grammar school but these children have no papers!!! Usually their mothers have no papers. The children will FOREVER have no papers. No cedula. No way to get .. well perhaps you know all that.. perhaps not.. but maybe this is not the place for it.
but what is being bred is a sort of complete underclass. a sorta half person slave. Do you understand what I am saviing? A stateless person. Not a Dominican. Not a Haitian. A non Person.

Are the Dominicans really being so very very generous to these Haitian mothers?

Or are they simply breeding more construction workers and house servants who cannot go home because really they are not and never really will be Haitian .. nor Dominican... just .. well.. you tell me. What is going on there? Charity? Do you really think so?

 

[Gurabo444]

Sometimes I wonder from where do some people come up with these sort of Myths about Dominicans. I've heard them all, Dominicans descend from Haitians, Dominicans are lighter than Haitians because Trujillo brought a bunch of Europeans and Jews to "whiten" the Dominican race, Dominican historians invented the invasion by Haiti, and now that Dominicans teach to Hate Haitians in school, lol. Well let me tell you, I went to Dominican school all my life, and we were never taught such thing. The Haitian massacre of 1804, the Haitian occupation of our nation and the multiple invasion attempts that followed were definitely taught, maybe the pro-Haitian and PC crowd consider these to be teachings of Hate. I'm pretty sure that if it were up to them, these historical events would be long gone from Dominican text books.

It's so funny, reading the discussions about when or if ever DR is going to have a black president, or one of Haitian descent. Guys sorry to burst your bauble, but there was a black president in DR already, his name was Ulises Heureaux AKA "Lilis", and he was also of Haitian descent, the man ruled the country for almost 20 years, so he wasn't some insignificant few month president. It surprises me that some of you guys participate in these type of discussions as if you were experts, yet is obvious that most know freaking **** about DR's history.

 

[AlterEgo]

Annie, I want to address the girls working like house servants/slaves for free.

I want you to know that this goes on with Dominican girls, from the campo mostly, too.

I can't count the number of girls [aged 12-16 usually] that were sent by their families to live with my mother-in-law in Santo Domingo over the past several decades. They did not get paid. What they did get was an education [Dona Maria was a stickler for that, she was an ex-teacher], clothing, meals, etc. When they got home from school, she would teach them how to be a maid. Now, that might sound terrible, but those girls went on to work for families who were glad to get them, knowing that if Dona Maria was happy with them they were good. I don't know what happened to them when they left her house, but I guarantee they were better off than when they got there, and their families not only had one less mouth to feed, they had someone working and sending a few dollars home.

In the beginning, I was horrified, wondering how could these families give away their young daughters to work as a maid for free. My suegra was tough on them too, which made me cringe sometimes. I finally realized she did this as a favor to the families, most of them came from near where my home is now, but also through word of mouth from relatives in Bani and Ocoa. Some of them stayed months, then cried to go home, which they did. Others stayed one or two years, finishing their schooling in SD.

I guess I'm suggesting that there are - in some places in DR - Dominicans living in the same conditions as some Haitians.

And there are a lot of Dominicans who employ Haitians, we do. We pay him the same as what we'd pay a Dominican, and that's not my influence.

I'm wondering, I guess, if those Haitian girls you mentioned were in similar situations to the poor Dominican girls sent to families in SD to work for free?

 

[Naked_Snake]

Are the Dominicans really being so very very generous to these Haitian mothers?

Or are they simply breeding more construction workers and house servants who cannot go home because really they are not and never really will be Haitian .. nor Dominican... just .. well.. you tell me. What is going on there? Charity? Do you really think so?

To which I ask you the following: Are yo so naive to believe that the Haitians wouldn't JUMP at the opportunity and move here en masse if our state were to declare all of a sudden that every child born of an Haitian mother would be granted Dominican papers? You don't see it as an issue because you love anything and everything Haitian, but I'm really uncomfortable at the mere thought of having an Haitian majority-minority deciding things here in a future if our state would be suicidal enough to enact such a policy, or in other words, the possibility of being a minority in one's own country. Specially when the history of this island itself affords the example of what has happened to the people unfortunate enough to have become such.