Tony C said:
Good, you now are beginning to see what I'm seeing. If Ecuador's and Guatemala's economic problems are due to corruption and ridiculous economic policies even after Dollarization, what makes you think that the DR will be any different?
- Thread starter mariaobetsanov
- Start date
Dolarlization of DR !?
Good, you now are beginning to see what I'm seeing. If Ecuador's and Guatemala's economic problems are due to corruption and ridiculous economic policies even after Dollarization, what makes you think that the DR will be any different?
All I see is somebody who is all scared about the remittance sent from NY. creat way to base an economy.Nal0whs said:
Any Economic measures that need to be taken in the DR will cause hardship for many short term and for a few long term. But it has to be done!
Nal0whs said:
I'm not so sure about the phenominal prices. What cocts US$10.95 at WallMart (items manufactured other than in the US) will cost 3 times that in the DR due to taxes (imposed by customs, regardless of invoice price) and transportation.
Be that as it may, if I send US$100 to a relative in the DR , thereby augmenting his income, and he exchanges it for $RD at 45/1 he has the SAME purchasing power whether he has pesos or dollars. It makes no difference, so what is your argument??? I just don't get the comparison.
I do agree that the remittances are very detrimental to the financial independence of the remittees. it has the effect of creating a secondary welfare system which is uncontrollable, however beneficial(?) to the recipient.
It undermines ambition and inhibits self preservation.
I'm not for dollarization because that would further erode national pride. That has gone through enough hammering lately.
Texas Bill
To Nalwohls
I appreciate your posts and would like you to address the corrpution and games that are done by exchange houses and the central bank in the area of arbitrage. With 2 exchanges there are plenty of games to play with spreads that takes away value and productivity from the DR economy. Patiently awaiting your interestinfg reply.
I appreciate your posts and would like you to address the corrpution and games that are done by exchange houses and the central bank in the area of arbitrage. With 2 exchanges there are plenty of games to play with spreads that takes away value and productivity from the DR economy. Patiently awaiting your interestinfg reply.
So lets say we Dollarized already!
Onion and Carrots, you're right, no more artbitrage for Central Bankers and independent day traders! But, funds will continue to "disapear" (like in our neighboring Puerto Rico). In addition to that, many folks tend to only see this on their terms. Yes, when you exchange dollars for pesos, the person that receives the pesos has the same purchasing power for the imported goods. Domestically made goods (platanos, Arroz, etc) are still cheaper in the DR than in many other places, which gives that remittanee more purchasing power of the essential in his Dominican life, Arroz con Pollo.
Of course, we are assuming that we got Dollars. So, that Arroz and Pollo and Platano that before cost less in Dollars in the DR than it cost in many other places, now cost at par to what it would have cost in the U.S. However, the income of this Dominican remains the same as before! Due to taxes and things of that nature, the Platano will cost more than in the U.S. in the American hard currency. That means, that if his cousin send him some money when the Peso was in circulation, money that helped in the weekly grocery shopping, now his cousin will have to increase the amount sent to cover the same percentage of cost of the same Platano. Most expatriate Dominicans won't or don't want to send more hard cash when they themselves are a bit tight on with their living in NYC. How will this Dominican on the island cover the expenses of his weekly grocery now? I guess he's going to have to eat a bit less? Maybe...
All of you want Dollarization and I clearly understand why. I don't know what other motives many of you might have that you are not showing (you know, many of you being Americans). Maybe the DR should just give up!! Lets join the USA, lets accept the Dollar. Let's pay taxes to Uncle Sam!! Lets sing the red white and blue with the eagle. Maybe that's what we should do!! Let's start to listen to more Hip Hop and Rap, lets start watching more Jerry Springer. All dark skin Dominican women start getting an attitude. All the Sankies and Hookers, start charging in Dollars for your services!! Let's pay property taxes to uncle sam at the exorbitant rate that they tend to be in U.S.
GIVING UP THE PESO IS A FORM OF GIVING UP SOME SOVEREIGNITY. FIRST THE PESO GOES. THAN THE MILITARY. THEN THE FLAG GETS MODIFIED TO RESEMBLE THAT OF PUERTO RICO OR SOMETHING. THEN ALL OF THOSE AMERICAN EXPATRIATES HIDING FROM THE IRS WILL BE PROSECUTED. BEFORE YOU KNOW IT WE WILL BECOME A COMMONWEALTH AND THEN WE ARE A STATE. THE LARGEST AMERICAN MILITARY BASE WILL PROBABLY GO UP IN SAMANA. THEN WE ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME REDNECKS FROM RURAL AMERICA COMING TO THE DR WITH THEIR (SOME OF THEM AT LEAST) WHITE SUPREMASY THINKING AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, DOMINICANS ARE GOING TO BE TARGETS OF RACIAL MOTIVATED VIOLENCE (SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING IN HAWAII, THOUGH IT'S NOT WIDESPREAD). LET'S GIVE UP!
BUT BEFORE THAT HAPPENS, I WILL FIGHT TO THE END. IF THE ISSUES REMAIN CIVILIZE (LIKE RIGHT NOW) I'LL FIGHT IN A CIVILIZE MANNER TO MAINTAIN DOMINICAN SOVEREIGNTY TO THE FULLEST IN GOOD TIMES AND IN BAD TIMES. IF THE FIGHT GETS UNCIVILIZE THEN UNCIVILIZE IT WILL BE. BUT THE DR WILL REMAIN INDEPENDENT IN ALL ITS FORM UNTIL THE DAY I DIE, END OF DISCUSSION. THE PESO SHALL STAY!
HOWEVER, IF A NEW CURRENCY IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT, THEN THE U.S. AND THE REST OF LATIN AMERICA SHOULD SIMPLY CREATE ONE THAT DOESN'T SHOW PREFERENCE TO ANY COUNTRY. SOMETHING LIKE THE EURO. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I WANT MY DUARTES' WHERE THEY BELONG AND I WANT MY WASHINGTONS WHERE THEY BELONG!
Onion and Carrots, you're right, no more artbitrage for Central Bankers and independent day traders! But, funds will continue to "disapear" (like in our neighboring Puerto Rico). In addition to that, many folks tend to only see this on their terms. Yes, when you exchange dollars for pesos, the person that receives the pesos has the same purchasing power for the imported goods. Domestically made goods (platanos, Arroz, etc) are still cheaper in the DR than in many other places, which gives that remittanee more purchasing power of the essential in his Dominican life, Arroz con Pollo.
Of course, we are assuming that we got Dollars. So, that Arroz and Pollo and Platano that before cost less in Dollars in the DR than it cost in many other places, now cost at par to what it would have cost in the U.S. However, the income of this Dominican remains the same as before! Due to taxes and things of that nature, the Platano will cost more than in the U.S. in the American hard currency. That means, that if his cousin send him some money when the Peso was in circulation, money that helped in the weekly grocery shopping, now his cousin will have to increase the amount sent to cover the same percentage of cost of the same Platano. Most expatriate Dominicans won't or don't want to send more hard cash when they themselves are a bit tight on with their living in NYC. How will this Dominican on the island cover the expenses of his weekly grocery now? I guess he's going to have to eat a bit less? Maybe...
All of you want Dollarization and I clearly understand why. I don't know what other motives many of you might have that you are not showing (you know, many of you being Americans). Maybe the DR should just give up!! Lets join the USA, lets accept the Dollar. Let's pay taxes to Uncle Sam!! Lets sing the red white and blue with the eagle. Maybe that's what we should do!! Let's start to listen to more Hip Hop and Rap, lets start watching more Jerry Springer. All dark skin Dominican women start getting an attitude. All the Sankies and Hookers, start charging in Dollars for your services!! Let's pay property taxes to uncle sam at the exorbitant rate that they tend to be in U.S.
GIVING UP THE PESO IS A FORM OF GIVING UP SOME SOVEREIGNITY. FIRST THE PESO GOES. THAN THE MILITARY. THEN THE FLAG GETS MODIFIED TO RESEMBLE THAT OF PUERTO RICO OR SOMETHING. THEN ALL OF THOSE AMERICAN EXPATRIATES HIDING FROM THE IRS WILL BE PROSECUTED. BEFORE YOU KNOW IT WE WILL BECOME A COMMONWEALTH AND THEN WE ARE A STATE. THE LARGEST AMERICAN MILITARY BASE WILL PROBABLY GO UP IN SAMANA. THEN WE ARE GOING TO HAVE SOME REDNECKS FROM RURAL AMERICA COMING TO THE DR WITH THEIR (SOME OF THEM AT LEAST) WHITE SUPREMASY THINKING AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, DOMINICANS ARE GOING TO BE TARGETS OF RACIAL MOTIVATED VIOLENCE (SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING IN HAWAII, THOUGH IT'S NOT WIDESPREAD). LET'S GIVE UP!
BUT BEFORE THAT HAPPENS, I WILL FIGHT TO THE END. IF THE ISSUES REMAIN CIVILIZE (LIKE RIGHT NOW) I'LL FIGHT IN A CIVILIZE MANNER TO MAINTAIN DOMINICAN SOVEREIGNTY TO THE FULLEST IN GOOD TIMES AND IN BAD TIMES. IF THE FIGHT GETS UNCIVILIZE THEN UNCIVILIZE IT WILL BE. BUT THE DR WILL REMAIN INDEPENDENT IN ALL ITS FORM UNTIL THE DAY I DIE, END OF DISCUSSION. THE PESO SHALL STAY!
HOWEVER, IF A NEW CURRENCY IS WHAT PEOPLE WANT, THEN THE U.S. AND THE REST OF LATIN AMERICA SHOULD SIMPLY CREATE ONE THAT DOESN'T SHOW PREFERENCE TO ANY COUNTRY. SOMETHING LIKE THE EURO. LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I WANT MY DUARTES' WHERE THEY BELONG AND I WANT MY WASHINGTONS WHERE THEY BELONG!
To Nalwohls
I compared platanos and rice to prices in miami. They are cheaper in Miami than in the DR. So I don't understand your point. The only thing cheaper in the DR vs the US for foreigners are rents and that's only if you want to live in a lower middle class area down towards the ghetto. Also public transportation in certain areas is also cheaper. Some comparable hotels to the rundown ones are also cheaper. Everything else is much more expensive in the DR. No property taxes for the lower middle class on down but you pay for that in the lack of basic services. All in all living in the DR versus the US for the average joe is still more advantageous to live in the US where prices are concerned. Retirees is an iffy situation.
So I don't see your point even where platanos and rice are concerned. Waiting for your interesting reply.
I compared platanos and rice to prices in miami. They are cheaper in Miami than in the DR. So I don't understand your point. The only thing cheaper in the DR vs the US for foreigners are rents and that's only if you want to live in a lower middle class area down towards the ghetto. Also public transportation in certain areas is also cheaper. Some comparable hotels to the rundown ones are also cheaper. Everything else is much more expensive in the DR. No property taxes for the lower middle class on down but you pay for that in the lack of basic services. All in all living in the DR versus the US for the average joe is still more advantageous to live in the US where prices are concerned. Retirees is an iffy situation.
So I don't see your point even where platanos and rice are concerned. Waiting for your interesting reply.
So what would be your suggestion...
for the border to be wide open between the DR and USA?
For the DR to join the USA?
Why doesn't the USA joins Europe since the US is beginning to slide against the other major economies?
Oh, because nothing last forever and the US will rebound?
What makes you be so optimistic? Oh, maybe because many of you are Americans and as such you'll always find a way to justify your country?
Isn't that what being part of a country is about?
Being positive so that that positiveness turns into actions and those actions gives results?
I have ever so explained my reasons why the Peso shall stay. Most of you are clearly for Dollarization. Many of you make it seem as if Dollarizing will stop the government from being corrupt. As if all of a sudden poverty will end! As if the answer to all our prayers is to join the behemoth to our north!
Sorry, I don't think that way and if the DR would have more people like me we would not have been so intertwined with the U.S. and their "Global Economy" crap! The DR could've been such a great country if foreigners would just leave their noses out of someone elses problems and issues! I thought the DR was a democracy where THE DOMINICANS choose their destiny! If that's the case, why are there so many foreign forces telling Dominicans what to do, what to think, how to live? Oh I forgot, everything America promises is only true for America, screw the world. I'm not anti-American by the way, but I am pro-Dominican and I will always stand by my country in good times and in bad ones. The Peso will stay. The Peso will stay. Period. Final. Se acabo la discusion. End of story! :classic:
for the border to be wide open between the DR and USA?
For the DR to join the USA?
Why doesn't the USA joins Europe since the US is beginning to slide against the other major economies?
Oh, because nothing last forever and the US will rebound?
What makes you be so optimistic? Oh, maybe because many of you are Americans and as such you'll always find a way to justify your country?
Isn't that what being part of a country is about?
Being positive so that that positiveness turns into actions and those actions gives results?
I have ever so explained my reasons why the Peso shall stay. Most of you are clearly for Dollarization. Many of you make it seem as if Dollarizing will stop the government from being corrupt. As if all of a sudden poverty will end! As if the answer to all our prayers is to join the behemoth to our north!
Sorry, I don't think that way and if the DR would have more people like me we would not have been so intertwined with the U.S. and their "Global Economy" crap! The DR could've been such a great country if foreigners would just leave their noses out of someone elses problems and issues! I thought the DR was a democracy where THE DOMINICANS choose their destiny! If that's the case, why are there so many foreign forces telling Dominicans what to do, what to think, how to live? Oh I forgot, everything America promises is only true for America, screw the world. I'm not anti-American by the way, but I am pro-Dominican and I will always stand by my country in good times and in bad ones. The Peso will stay. The Peso will stay. Period. Final. Se acabo la discusion. End of story! :classic:
Nal0whs said:
What makes you so all fired certain the US wants anything to do with the DR? As of late, the only "contact" the US has with the DR is in giving aid, trying to promote fairness, bailing you out etc etc etc.
Donate some money to YOUR Govt. so your poor soldiers can get home from Iraq, no the US will likely provide that also
you really are becoming tiresome with your US bashing
To Nalwohls
My question towards you was regarding prices. Platanos and rice though in pesos are more expensive in the DR than in Miami. How do you justify that?
I understand your US position. Don't you think we'd be better off as an American commonwealth. I do?
My question towards you was regarding prices. Platanos and rice though in pesos are more expensive in the DR than in Miami. How do you justify that?
I understand your US position. Don't you think we'd be better off as an American commonwealth. I do?
Nal0whs said:
Very true! The world bank/IMF tell us as well as other nations that we must stop all subsidies... So what does the US do after 9-11 and the US airlines are in trouble? exactly the largest bail-out in history..Nice for a company like AA to have a government like the US with all their $$ to bail you out when we all know they would have failed in a true "open market".
KrackedKris said:
My question to you is if the US didn't want anything to do with the DR, why does the IMF (whose 51% owner is the United States Treasury) keeps lending money to a government that is known for being corrupt at high interest rates. Why does the IMF requires for third world countries to sell off all of their government owned companies at fire sale prices to mostly American and European countries? Why do poor countries must stop the subsidies that do nothing more than alleviate the plight of the poor? Ever seen an IMF plan in action, it's the same thing for every poor country. First sell off the assets by bribing government officials with commission of the sold assets going to their Swiss bank accounts, liberalize the banking sector so that money can in theory go into the country, but in reality money simply flows out to first world conglomerates like Citibank and Swiss Bank. Then comes the suspension of subsedies that help maintain the cost of living within reach for most poor people. Even the so called "IMF Riots" are engineered into their plans. These riots are nothing more than peaceful demonstrations being disrupted by tear gas and riot police, like what happened in Cochabamba, Bolivia in 2000 when the local population demanded the cost of water to drop after the Bolivian government sold the national water company at a sub market value to a Canadian company that simply increased the cost of water by 300%, all of that so that the IMF could grant them a $200 million debt at high interest rates. Also, look at what happen in Botswana where the IMF suggested (along with many other African countries) for those countries to pick up a high interest loan from the IMF and to put their surpluses in low interest baring accounts in American and European financial corporations. Notice how one of the very first thing the Bush Administration did with Iraq was enroll the country into the IMF and pick up a loan!! Oh, CNN don't tell that story! All of this by an organization 51% owned by The United States Treasury Department! Why all of this, so the U.S. can make sure that no other country becomes a Super power threatning its own ambitions and positions! That's what the U.S. wants for many countries in the world. Aside from the Oil, you'll noticed how the two largest American military bases are currently being built in Iraq. Pick up a map and look how centric and convenient Iraq is in the region. Also notice where Afghanistan is located, where very large American permanent military bases are located also. In between those two countries is undemocratic Iran! Oh, I guess I found out the next country that will fall victim to the might and power of the U.S.A.
Me Bashing? Let's just say I see the world like it is and not how any government would want me to see it as.
Onions&carrots said:
In pesos everything is expensive, but in Dollars the Platanos are cheaper in the DR than in Miami. With Dollarization, the Platanos will be more expensive in the DR than in Miami, trust me when I say this, but if you don't, go to your local library (and I'm serious about this) and check out a book on Economics. Better yet, just go to a local university and/or college and ask an economics professor what might create the same material to cost more on an island than in a well developed continent. You're doubts about my posts will be eradicated in a split second.
No hard feelings, just expressing my views. Have a nice day!
HEY---ALL OF YOU---QUIT BEING SO EMOTIONAL---
YOU'RE GETTING OUT OF HAND!!!!
Someplace along the line the term "dollarization" has been interpreted to mean that prices for goods and services in the DR will automatically rise to the same value levels as in the USA.
That assumption is EMPHATICALLY INCORRECT!!!!
All "dollarization" means is that one would use dollar currency instead of peso currency!
The printing of "unbacked" currency would not happen as it is today with the Central Bank printing money with which to pay off government debts.
The Dominican economy would still be in the same price range as it is today, people would be paying the same prices for the same goods and services.
In other words, if an item costs RD$450, you would pay US$100. That's it!!!
Regardless of what NalOws would have us to believe!!
NOW, IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH????
Texas Bill
YOU'RE GETTING OUT OF HAND!!!!
Someplace along the line the term "dollarization" has been interpreted to mean that prices for goods and services in the DR will automatically rise to the same value levels as in the USA.
That assumption is EMPHATICALLY INCORRECT!!!!
All "dollarization" means is that one would use dollar currency instead of peso currency!
The printing of "unbacked" currency would not happen as it is today with the Central Bank printing money with which to pay off government debts.
The Dominican economy would still be in the same price range as it is today, people would be paying the same prices for the same goods and services.
In other words, if an item costs RD$450, you would pay US$100. That's it!!!
Regardless of what NalOws would have us to believe!!
NOW, IS THAT CLEAR ENOUGH????
Texas Bill
Texas Bill, thank you for that detour back to the topic!
I am praying to God that what you say turns out to be true!! Please God almighty make it be true!! But theory has been put to practice and it doesn't seem as easy as that! But please almighty God, make it be true!!
I am praying to God that what you say turns out to be true!! Please God almighty make it be true!! But theory has been put to practice and it doesn't seem as easy as that! But please almighty God, make it be true!!
I don't think God has anything to do with it!
Get your business community out of their monopolistic mind set, allow market forces to plow the way, keep the socialist from meddling and watch competition bring this country out of it's economic chasm!
At the same time, ride your corrupt politicians and government hangers on out of town on a rail after being tarred and feathered.
Texas Bill
Get your business community out of their monopolistic mind set, allow market forces to plow the way, keep the socialist from meddling and watch competition bring this country out of it's economic chasm!
At the same time, ride your corrupt politicians and government hangers on out of town on a rail after being tarred and feathered.
Texas Bill
But the DR is just copying the US. American corporations are taking control of a huge chunck of the global economy, Americans are not fully given to market forces (notice the bail out of the airlines after 9/11), and every politician that leaves the white house ends up being way richer than they were before!
So how can an American tell a Dominican to act a certain way, when the Dominicans are trying to emulate Americans on a local level. Not to mention that the U.S. allows stuff to happen when it benefits them. If the current situation did not benefit the U.S. in some shape or form, the country would have been a different ball park.
This reminds me of a political cartoon I saw in a newspaper once: A poor guy in rags representing the third world is approached by a guy in a suit riding a cadillac representing the first world. The guy in the car tell the guy in rags that if the guy in rags need to change the way he is developing. The greenhouse gases are warming the earth, the trees are disappearing, the air is too polluted, the guy in rags needs to do things differently than the way the guy in the car (representing the first world) did in the past. Then the guy in rags asks how can he go about getting a car like that cadillac?
In short, don't tell us to do stuff differently, when what we are doing now eventually lead the U.S. and all other first world country to the level of development they are today! Don't believe me, read House of Morgan. Interesting book about the JP Morgan Financial empire. But it also gives you a glimpse at how corrupt and "Dominican" like the US was while it was developing into a super power!
So how can an American tell a Dominican to act a certain way, when the Dominicans are trying to emulate Americans on a local level. Not to mention that the U.S. allows stuff to happen when it benefits them. If the current situation did not benefit the U.S. in some shape or form, the country would have been a different ball park.
This reminds me of a political cartoon I saw in a newspaper once: A poor guy in rags representing the third world is approached by a guy in a suit riding a cadillac representing the first world. The guy in the car tell the guy in rags that if the guy in rags need to change the way he is developing. The greenhouse gases are warming the earth, the trees are disappearing, the air is too polluted, the guy in rags needs to do things differently than the way the guy in the car (representing the first world) did in the past. Then the guy in rags asks how can he go about getting a car like that cadillac?
In short, don't tell us to do stuff differently, when what we are doing now eventually lead the U.S. and all other first world country to the level of development they are today! Don't believe me, read House of Morgan. Interesting book about the JP Morgan Financial empire. But it also gives you a glimpse at how corrupt and "Dominican" like the US was while it was developing into a super power!
Nal0whs said:
Dude you have lost all grip with reality. You come up with all this because of Dollarization?
Agenda
This Nal0whs clown has some sort of anti US agenda, probably blames the floods on US failing to warn people or plant trees
Tony C said:
This Nal0whs clown has some sort of anti US agenda, probably blames the floods on US failing to warn people or plant trees
Unfortunately, NalOws is like so many people who have reached the peak of frustration with events over which they have allowed progress to the point at which they have become unmanagable locally and MUST place the blame for such at the doorsteps of someone else. As long as they continue to bury their heads in the sands of denial the situation will continue to develop.
These are a group of people who practice self-deceit in the light of reality and absolutely refuse to accept that the problem has been created by their own lack of corrective action. They are as much a political animal as the incumbents and accept corrupt actions because that is what they would do were they the incumbent.
It is an endemic problem in politics which requires constant vigilence and follow-up corrective action. For some reason or other, this has never been done.
Maybe they lack the will to act; but the solution is simple when viewed in the light of reality.
Texas Bill
These are a group of people who practice self-deceit in the light of reality and absolutely refuse to accept that the problem has been created by their own lack of corrective action. They are as much a political animal as the incumbents and accept corrupt actions because that is what they would do were they the incumbent.
It is an endemic problem in politics which requires constant vigilence and follow-up corrective action. For some reason or other, this has never been done.
Maybe they lack the will to act; but the solution is simple when viewed in the light of reality.
Texas Bill
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