But he'd better shake their hand and kiss their feet because that is his job, right? Gimme a break.
SHALENA
- Thread starter minerva_feliz
- Start date
Dominican Immigrants in the U.S.: Poverty, Education and Welfare
SHALENA
What?? welfare fraud department works against those types of cases, his work is to report the violation back to the office and then the welfare recipient has his/her benefits revoked or reduced.
Mejor me muerdo la lengua....
HER attitude?
Her attitude is well justified and certainly based on her personal experience working IN THE FIELD in NYC. She clearly went into her profession to help people, She is clearly very good at what she does, otherwise she could not afford to live here and commute. AND she clearly LIKES Dominicans, otherwise she would not choose to live here, raise her children here, and spend her hard earned US dollars in this economy.
What she is pointing out is something that you really should listen to, as it reflects badly on your people, and your nation. THIS is the sort of behavior that Americans are seeing from Dominicans, from other immigrants, that is making the debate so virulent.
Of course, when you travel to NY, you would carry good travel insurance would you not? So that you would not end up in a public emergency room and expect to be treated for nothing, right? From tax dollars that you did not pay, right?
Don't kill the messenger.
Her attitude is well justified and certainly based on her personal experience working IN THE FIELD in NYC. She clearly went into her profession to help people, She is clearly very good at what she does, otherwise she could not afford to live here and commute. AND she clearly LIKES Dominicans, otherwise she would not choose to live here, raise her children here, and spend her hard earned US dollars in this economy.
What she is pointing out is something that you really should listen to, as it reflects badly on your people, and your nation. THIS is the sort of behavior that Americans are seeing from Dominicans, from other immigrants, that is making the debate so virulent.
Of course, when you travel to NY, you would carry good travel insurance would you not? So that you would not end up in a public emergency room and expect to be treated for nothing, right? From tax dollars that you did not pay, right?
Don't kill the messenger.
Expecting newcomers not to beg is un-American, begging is a tradition deeply embedded in American culture, after all; what do we celebrate on Thanksgiving?, isn't it the first case of welfare on American soil?.
right, vacara. at least they are not MURDERING and RANSACKING a whole nation of people like the "proud" puritans. last time i checked no one invited them here either. and im damn well sure no one told them they could commit genocide against all who lived here so they could take everything from them.
if you wanna talk about the values of the old founders talk about ALL of it. dont conveniently leave out the part where they stole an entire nation from natives. add on the shame of slavery and yeah that sounds pretty honorable to me. they are the perfect people to complain about others "abuses". right.
if you wanna talk about the values of the old founders talk about ALL of it. dont conveniently leave out the part where they stole an entire nation from natives. add on the shame of slavery and yeah that sounds pretty honorable to me. they are the perfect people to complain about others "abuses". right.
and im trying very hard to comprehend why americans want to tell others to stfu everytime its brought up that they are racist and discriminatory. is that something to be proud of? is it not a basic human right for residents and citizens alike to expect to be treated like an equal? especially in the country whos constitution states we are all created equal? really? how about finxing that unsavory aspect instead of telling others to leave if they dont like it? how is this logical? and how is it a matter of pride? why would anyone be so proud of that?
as dominicans there are aspects of our country and culture that need to be fixed and that no one is proud of....why do americans think they are exempt from critique? they arent perfect either. if somethings wrong accept it and figure out a way to fix it, dont tell others to leave if they dont like it. why be proud of wrongdoing?
if we went by that most expats in the DR wouldve been told to go back home ages ago. theres a whole lot of complaining going on. but oddly enough dominicans dont usually resort to that kind of flawed "well, leave!" reasoning.
as dominicans there are aspects of our country and culture that need to be fixed and that no one is proud of....why do americans think they are exempt from critique? they arent perfect either. if somethings wrong accept it and figure out a way to fix it, dont tell others to leave if they dont like it. why be proud of wrongdoing?
if we went by that most expats in the DR wouldve been told to go back home ages ago. theres a whole lot of complaining going on. but oddly enough dominicans dont usually resort to that kind of flawed "well, leave!" reasoning.
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Because we have money is the only reason that they don't tell us to leave...they would if we all came over here abusing the Social Services system (if DR had one)
SHALENA
shalena, i understand your reasoning but i also want to know if you and mountainannie truly think its wrong for people to expect to be treated as equals in a land where they say all men are created equal?
even when people arent abusing the system that is a sore spot for americans and people (even african americans) are told to go back where they came from if they dare complain about racism. i just dont understand it. its as if people are supposed to be content w being a second class citizen and having to work 10 times harder because they werent born the right color. even if they just so happened to build the country from the ground up the sentiment remains the same: gtfo.
even when people arent abusing the system that is a sore spot for americans and people (even african americans) are told to go back where they came from if they dare complain about racism. i just dont understand it. its as if people are supposed to be content w being a second class citizen and having to work 10 times harder because they werent born the right color. even if they just so happened to build the country from the ground up the sentiment remains the same: gtfo.
Everyone seems to think that we (or I) am racist or prejudiced which is far from it. After writing my comment last night I had a very long conversation with my DOMINICAN man who apparently agrees with me and le da verguenza su propia gente. So what's up there? Is he racist against Dominicans too? Just because he also believes that people should WORK and stop looking for handouts?
By the way, the patient that I was talking about...I have her phone number. Her family came back to the hospital on the day she was discharged to pick her up and bought me doughnuts. So obviously, my personal feelings never overcame my profession because the patient never knew that in reality, she made me sick, and I would rather she pay her bill than bring us some doughnuts. I know it sounds mean, but I don't mince my words and I tell it straight. But I have so many numbers from Dominican patients and their families that if I wanted to I would have somewhere to stay in almost every part of this country. So don't let my personal beliefs confuse you. When I have a patient, I take care of them all the same. I have tried to leave this hospital several times and each time they just offer me more money to stay, so obviously...all of my letters of thanks from patients account for something.
SHALENA
By the way, the patient that I was talking about...I have her phone number. Her family came back to the hospital on the day she was discharged to pick her up and bought me doughnuts. So obviously, my personal feelings never overcame my profession because the patient never knew that in reality, she made me sick, and I would rather she pay her bill than bring us some doughnuts. I know it sounds mean, but I don't mince my words and I tell it straight. But I have so many numbers from Dominican patients and their families that if I wanted to I would have somewhere to stay in almost every part of this country. So don't let my personal beliefs confuse you. When I have a patient, I take care of them all the same. I have tried to leave this hospital several times and each time they just offer me more money to stay, so obviously...all of my letters of thanks from patients account for something.
SHALENA
I'll get right back to you on that 'cuz it's lunchtime but I have something to say on that subject...(and it's not mean!)
You are still a friend to me:cheeky:
SHALENA
1. Bigotry doesnt account for abuses of the U.S. system by Dominicans, but misinformation and ignorance does!
2. Discrimination is still a real and true factor everywhere. Its human nature, ugly as it may be. People are told to "go back where they came from" all the time, regardless of whether or not they have abused the system and they shouldnt be "happy" about that. Its normal to feel hurt by it when you havent done anything wrong except be non-white.
3. It's not racist to view abuse as what it is: abuse. Its not excusable no matter who does it.
4. Making up excuses wont solve the problem but educating and explaining the real deal to prospective residents just might.
2. Discrimination is still a real and true factor everywhere. Its human nature, ugly as it may be. People are told to "go back where they came from" all the time, regardless of whether or not they have abused the system and they shouldnt be "happy" about that. Its normal to feel hurt by it when you havent done anything wrong except be non-white.
3. It's not racist to view abuse as what it is: abuse. Its not excusable no matter who does it.
4. Making up excuses wont solve the problem but educating and explaining the real deal to prospective residents just might.
You are talking to a BLACK WOMAN. I have encountered lots of racism in my 34 years and still encounter it. But that is not a reason to STEAL, LIE, and CHEAT. You think I came out of my mother's a$$ making over $100,000/yr? You think I din't have to prove,prove, and prove again that I was worth being admitted to Nursing school?
The difference between myself and these people (that we are speaking about) is that I don't think that the government of the USA OWES me something. I have always worked from age 15.5. My mother was on public assistance (Food Stamps and Medicaid) until I was in the 10th grade even though she worked 2 jobs (McDonald's in the morning and Subway Sandwiches at night) and whenever I wanted somehting that she couldn't afford, she told me straight up that it was because she didn't have an education. She never blamed the Government, she blamed herself...which is exactly where the blame lay.
These people think that WE owe THEM because their country is poor, WE owe THEM because they were born in a campo and went without food...like if they make it to the US, it is expected of them to rob us.
YES, they are going to have to work like donkeys. YES, they are going to have to work 10 hours to make what someone else would make in 5. Yes, they are going to have to live in the projects...that's just the way the world is. If they don't like it, do something to change THEMSELVES to achieve more...these people come here (not just Dominicans) and live for YEARS and don't even learn the language. What the f*ck?!#? And we cater to them, you call a business and it says "For English: Press 1", I shouldn't have to freaking press 1, I am calling in the USA!!!
Let me walk into any business here in Santiago and DEMAND an English interpreter...the guy at the door with the gun will be escorting me out quickly.
Not all Dominicans are like this, I must say. I have so many friends whose parents busted their a$$es when they got to the USA...I admire those people. But I have no patience for lazy, thieving, good for nothing Non-Americans who think that because they happened to be born poor, that I need to take care of them and their children for the rest of their lives. Like I said in another thread...That's a personal problem that they need to take up with God...he was the one who had them be born where and when they were born. Punto
SHALENA
Amen, my children are 15, 10, and 6...why the age gaps, Momma is responsible and each one I had I made sure I was able to take care of them. Put my children's name in ANY welfare sytem computer and NOTHING will come up...and I had my oldest when I was 18!!!
We even try to give them FREE birth control, and they won't take it or take it and won't use it because half of them have the same Marido and are trying to outbeat each other with the number of kids they have...
SHALENA
Just for the record I have been working all my life against the racial abuses and discrimination in my own country. As did my great grandmother who founded the Freedman's Bureau after the Civil War. And walked with
Sojourner Truth throughout Illinois before that War.
And I am well aware of the genocidal history of the European invaders in my country, and in yours and in the hemisphere at large......
I am on record in many places as certifying that the US has had the most institutionalized racism in the world outside of South Africa. This is not news. For Dominicans to arrive and take it personally, as if they did not know that this was part of the history of the country to which they are immigrating is naive. Did you not hear about this from the Puerto Ricans who came to NYC in the decades and decades before you?
It was known that you would not be welcomed with the same open arms as the Northern European immigrants, was it not?
In Canada, perhaps.... but in the States?
your points are noted and taken.. It certainly was part of my education probably long before it was part of yours.
now back to the discussion
which I think was about Dominicans and Welfare in the US
Sojourner Truth throughout Illinois before that War.
And I am well aware of the genocidal history of the European invaders in my country, and in yours and in the hemisphere at large......
I am on record in many places as certifying that the US has had the most institutionalized racism in the world outside of South Africa. This is not news. For Dominicans to arrive and take it personally, as if they did not know that this was part of the history of the country to which they are immigrating is naive. Did you not hear about this from the Puerto Ricans who came to NYC in the decades and decades before you?
It was known that you would not be welcomed with the same open arms as the Northern European immigrants, was it not?
In Canada, perhaps.... but in the States?
your points are noted and taken.. It certainly was part of my education probably long before it was part of yours.
now back to the discussion
which I think was about Dominicans and Welfare in the US
LOL i understand your gripes, SKing! My question was not that, but thats ok.
Also, immigrants arent out there lobbying companies to give them "spanish" options on the phone. You would have to take that up with said companies because, honestly, they dont HAVE to cater to non-english speakers but they do. If they didnt maybe folks would be more motivated to learn english. Companies do that of their own free will for the sake of getting more business. I wouldnt take it personally as its all just about money.
And I think that your recount of the people in the campo who you explained it to is accurate. Its not that they come to the u.s. thinking YOU owe them something. Its that they come thinking everyone gets it and its ok. They dont understand they are asking for alot or that it bothers people or why its an abuse. They see it as signing up for what everyone else gets. I am not saying you shouldnt still be angry. I am just saying, rather than see it as them demanding what they know they dont deserve, see it as them signing up for what they have been told is just a given. Theres a difference. Again, not making excuses but explaining that its more about misinformation than anything else.
Also, immigrants arent out there lobbying companies to give them "spanish" options on the phone. You would have to take that up with said companies because, honestly, they dont HAVE to cater to non-english speakers but they do. If they didnt maybe folks would be more motivated to learn english. Companies do that of their own free will for the sake of getting more business. I wouldnt take it personally as its all just about money.
And I think that your recount of the people in the campo who you explained it to is accurate. Its not that they come to the u.s. thinking YOU owe them something. Its that they come thinking everyone gets it and its ok. They dont understand they are asking for alot or that it bothers people or why its an abuse. They see it as signing up for what everyone else gets. I am not saying you shouldnt still be angry. I am just saying, rather than see it as them demanding what they know they dont deserve, see it as them signing up for what they have been told is just a given. Theres a difference. Again, not making excuses but explaining that its more about misinformation than anything else.
mountainannie, understood entirely. i simply asked because you seemed to suggest people who have gripes with institutional racism should just be quiet and put up with it or leave. however, i realize i misunderstood. and, it actually may be very much be a surprise for dominicans newly arriving as they would not have much contact with puerto ricans before getting to the u.s. though there are racial dynamics in the DR, they are a different dynamic than in the u.s. i suppose thats all part of "adjusting" to a new country. its normal to be confused by certain things.
You are exactly correct. Dominicans living in the USA need to have some self worth and tell these people here the truth...instead of feeding them lies.
Also, I completely agree about the companies. The US government is so full of "enablers" and so are the companies. Who can believe or trust in them when they go back on their own laws?
This is how I explained the situation of illegal immigrants and welfare to my daughter (10 y.o.) " If I tell you the master bedroom is off limits, you are not to go in there whatsoever unless you get MY personal permission because that is my bedroom and I require PERMISSION for anyone to enter. But then I tell you but if you HAPPEN to find a way in there without me knowing, there is a Snickers bar on the bed that you can have!"
She told me plainly..."Mommy, that doesn't make sense"
And there you have it...a 10 year old says it doesn't make sense
SHALENA
Also, I completely agree about the companies. The US government is so full of "enablers" and so are the companies. Who can believe or trust in them when they go back on their own laws?
This is how I explained the situation of illegal immigrants and welfare to my daughter (10 y.o.) " If I tell you the master bedroom is off limits, you are not to go in there whatsoever unless you get MY personal permission because that is my bedroom and I require PERMISSION for anyone to enter. But then I tell you but if you HAPPEN to find a way in there without me knowing, there is a Snickers bar on the bed that you can have!"
She told me plainly..."Mommy, that doesn't make sense"
And there you have it...a 10 year old says it doesn't make sense
SHALENA