- Thread starter AZB
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A sad case. Drug mule story.
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The recipient would be given her contact information in NYC by the bf ... so they can contact her to arrange the pick up. In this way there're no traces to the drug dealers.
Hmm. Pretty sure that this is not true. Now, most of practice as an attorney has been in civil litigation. Then again, seeing as how you cite wikipedia as your legal reference, you're no johnnie cochran either.
What i do know is that the list of specific intent crimes is limited. And at best, specific intent is only a partial defense used to bring a greater offense down to a lesser. For instance, it might be used to bring murder down to manslaughter. But if I remember correctly, drug crimes are a little different. In a lot of jurisdictions, the amount of drugs that you are carrying determine what you are charged with. Carrying above a certain amount will get you charged with possession with intent to distribute, instead of mere possession. I don't think that the mens rea argument will help much in that instance.
But as I said, I am a civil, not a criminal attorney. So, if anyone has a legal source (hint: wikipedia is not a legal source) that lists possession as one of the specific intent crimes, please feel free to share it with me. I am always eager to expand my knowledge of the law.
The same for New Jersey.
NJ Statutes Annotated said:
The degree of the crime and penaly is determined by the type and amounts of drugs involved.
As a layman, it appears to me that knowledge and intent are elements of the crime which must be proven by the prosecution.
I used NJ only as an example, but I believe most States are similar.
to add
Also, the amount of drugs in your possession will decide whether you'll be charged 1st degree (A-1 Felony) or a lower CPCS in the 7th degree (misd.) in NY of course, different states will have different statutes. Many cases, which a group of people will get arrested and charged with possession of one dime bag of coke, because the drugs were in a residence in plain view. Just like one firearm can toss (arrest all passengers) the entire vehicle. (public view). I believe her case would be federal. That's too bad, because drug smugglers can hide contents in radios and other things that the unsuspecting person would'nt be aware of.
Also, the amount of drugs in your possession will decide whether you'll be charged 1st degree (A-1 Felony) or a lower CPCS in the 7th degree (misd.) in NY of course, different states will have different statutes. Many cases, which a group of people will get arrested and charged with possession of one dime bag of coke, because the drugs were in a residence in plain view. Just like one firearm can toss (arrest all passengers) the entire vehicle. (public view). I believe her case would be federal. That's too bad, because drug smugglers can hide contents in radios and other things that the unsuspecting person would'nt be aware of.
Well, sure. Intent is an element required to be convicted of any crime. But there is a difference between specific intent and general intent. Believe me, there are entire chapters in legal textbooks, as well as innumerable law review articles, discussing this very thing. And language such as "knowingly" and "intentionally" in section 220.1 of the New york penal code would seem to suggest an element of specific intent.
However, within the same code are provisions under which intent can be presumed. Some have already been mentioned here. Such as when the drugs are found in a car or within a building within plain view. As a rule, when specific intent is required to convict, it can never be presumed, it has to be proven factually.
Statutes and codes are notorious for this type of ambiguity. This is why they are usually seen as guidelines, and it is the court cases interpreting these statutes that are considered the law of the land. Ask any practicing defense attorney. Courts are more likely to rule based on legal precedent (ie. previous rulings) than on statutes alone.
I'm sure that the exact mens rea required to convict under section 220.1 has been thoroughly outlined in some New York court case. But i'm not about to start citing and pasting cases within this post. In my experience, such material is usually quite voluminous (I hate cutting and pasting). Besides, I usually don't do that type of research for free anymore. He, He. But it does make for interesting conversation.
However, I did call a former classmate of mine that is practicing in New York and he promised to send me some case cites. I will forward them to anyone who is truly interested.
Now as to the original topic of the thread, my friend told me that she would have a hard time asserting mens rea as a defense. Even considering the language of the statute, the burden would be upon her to prove that she didn't know about the drugs she was carrying. And the court would make it a heavy burden indeed. The statute is not designed to provide a loophole for anyone who "mysteriously" and "unintentionally" finds themselves to be carrying a buttload of illegal drugs.
Seriously. This happens all of the time. You can't possibly think that it'd be that easy to avoid culpability. Drug mules would never be convicted if that were the case.
What a dumbass!
BEFORE I came to this thread, others were calling her a drug smuggler and a mule, which she is.
No, this could had happen to any one of us. Maybe to you but not to me, I can guaranteed it.
Unlike you, I am not a "yes man". You thought you were going to come here and write such a thread and that EVERYBODY was going to back you up and believe all the crap you had to say about your friend. Shyt, even the friends you like to kiss their axxes are not backing you up on this one.
If you didn't want people's opinions, why in hell did you started the thread to begin with?.
This has nothing to do with someone knowing more than the next person. I have never said that I know it all, you have. But one thing I know for a fact, I know a drug smuggler when I see one and I also know some of the excuses they come up with.
Like someone posted, what about the damage her drug was going to do?. Whether she was framed or not, have you taken a second to think of the damage her drug was going to do to innocent people?.
There's a difference between trusting someone and trusting someone blindly. I trust NOBODY blindly. If you do, then don't complain if someone does to you what her b/f "did" to her.
I can assure you that if your friends are so "connected" and "decent" like you claim they are, SOME WILL turn their backs on her when she gets deported to the DR, framed or not!. You have said it thousands of times: "decent Dominicans do not like to associate with shaddy people". Remember?. Of course NOT!.
Again, if all you wanted was for people to praise her, you should've started a Church shrine for her and not a thread where people can voice their opinions.
Btw, I keep on saying that perhaps she was framed. I just don't buy all the crap you want all of us to believe. If she is a victim of her own stupidity, that's her problem.
SOME of us have seen way too many people sing that same old "I am not guilty, I was framed" song.
SOME PEOPLE!!!.
In case you have not noticed, BABOSO, you are the one making a drama out of it. Every time someone posts something disagreeing with you, you start a nonsense post trying to FORCE us to believe that she is Mother Theresa incarnated.
BEFORE I came to this thread, others were calling her a drug smuggler and a mule, which she is.
No, this could had happen to any one of us. Maybe to you but not to me, I can guaranteed it.
Unlike you, I am not a "yes man". You thought you were going to come here and write such a thread and that EVERYBODY was going to back you up and believe all the crap you had to say about your friend. Shyt, even the friends you like to kiss their axxes are not backing you up on this one.
If you didn't want people's opinions, why in hell did you started the thread to begin with?.
This has nothing to do with someone knowing more than the next person. I have never said that I know it all, you have. But one thing I know for a fact, I know a drug smuggler when I see one and I also know some of the excuses they come up with.
Like someone posted, what about the damage her drug was going to do?. Whether she was framed or not, have you taken a second to think of the damage her drug was going to do to innocent people?.
There's a difference between trusting someone and trusting someone blindly. I trust NOBODY blindly. If you do, then don't complain if someone does to you what her b/f "did" to her.
I can assure you that if your friends are so "connected" and "decent" like you claim they are, SOME WILL turn their backs on her when she gets deported to the DR, framed or not!. You have said it thousands of times: "decent Dominicans do not like to associate with shaddy people". Remember?. Of course NOT!.
Again, if all you wanted was for people to praise her, you should've started a Church shrine for her and not a thread where people can voice their opinions.
Btw, I keep on saying that perhaps she was framed. I just don't buy all the crap you want all of us to believe. If she is a victim of her own stupidity, that's her problem.
SOME of us have seen way too many people sing that same old "I am not guilty, I was framed" song.
SOME PEOPLE!!!.
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As I recall, race never became a factor in this discussion until YOU brought it up. And though I think that it is noble of you to defend your friend, I resent being called a racist just because I don't agree with you. I am even more offended because I have seen first hand how the criminal laws in the US are enforced disproportionately against people of color (I'm african american. Trust me, you have no clue). This is not one of those instances.
This has nothing to do with the fact that she is dominican. If you've been through post 9/11 airport security, you know that it is flat out STUPID for ANYONE to fly with a package here in the states unless you know exactly whats in it. No matter how much you trust the person who gave it to you. And you claim that this person travels to the states often. So she should know this.
You are a hypocrite because you yourself said that she exhibited a lack of judgment in trusting this gentleman. So don't dare call me a racist because I don't think that society as a whole should suffer because it.
She is a mule because she is a dominican. This is the conclusion miguel draws. Shame on you miguel for tarnishing your own people's reputation. You are the first dominican who loves to put dominicans down. Now if she were an Anglo-Saxon white female from PA and had been busted on drugs which was given to her by a resort sankie, you would be the first one defending her.
Here is another perfect example of a dominican who wished he was born a white american.
AZB
Here is another perfect example of a dominican who wished he was born a white american.
AZB
Not true. For example most states laws say you are guilty of DUI if your blood alcohol level is in excess of a certain level. No intent is necessary.
But I agree her burden to use a mens reas defense is very high. I was just responding to the statement that it made no difference that she wasn't aware of the contents of the bag.
corsair74 said:
You seem to make statements that are absolute. I think they say that the only things that are absolute are death and taxes. Even that is wrong as those of us that have moved to the DR can pretty much avoid one of those.
Again, just a layman's point of view.
The problem with miguel is simple; he is a typical dom york. He came from a poor family from a barrio in DR. Grew up in NY and now when he comes to DR, he naturally visits the barrios where he has most of his family. He acts better than the rest of his folks who are still struggling in poor barrio that his family left behind. He goes there with gifts and takes people out to eat and drink so he can act like a big don. He talks and the lambones listen, when he laughs they all laugh with him.
In his posts, he is the only one who claims dominican women are not HOT or attractive. He openly claims he would not date a dominican woman. I wonder why? Then he claims about not carrying their baggage and refuses to support her family. There you have it. He only knows barrio poor women who need men for financial support. He knows not a single respected professional dominican woman who would want him for what he is all about (a purse carrier). No dominican woman wants a "yes mam" guy. So he puts on a face for all of us and claims he wants nothing to do with dominican women. They are not attractive to him. He only dates white american women etc etc etc. Why is he the only one who doesn't want to date domincian women?
The truth is, he can't have a professional educated dominican woman who would agree with his feministic views. They all want a macho man that he can't even pretend to be. Since he only knows motel type barrio putas he has developed arcane views on dominican women. He thinks they are low life and less than white north american women. So that's why when he reads a banker went to jail for carrying drugs in suitcase belonging to others, he quickly came to conclusion she was a mule (mula).
Now sad of a dominican who thinks so low of his own people.
AZB
In his posts, he is the only one who claims dominican women are not HOT or attractive. He openly claims he would not date a dominican woman. I wonder why? Then he claims about not carrying their baggage and refuses to support her family. There you have it. He only knows barrio poor women who need men for financial support. He knows not a single respected professional dominican woman who would want him for what he is all about (a purse carrier). No dominican woman wants a "yes mam" guy. So he puts on a face for all of us and claims he wants nothing to do with dominican women. They are not attractive to him. He only dates white american women etc etc etc. Why is he the only one who doesn't want to date domincian women?
The truth is, he can't have a professional educated dominican woman who would agree with his feministic views. They all want a macho man that he can't even pretend to be. Since he only knows motel type barrio putas he has developed arcane views on dominican women. He thinks they are low life and less than white north american women. So that's why when he reads a banker went to jail for carrying drugs in suitcase belonging to others, he quickly came to conclusion she was a mule (mula).
Now sad of a dominican who thinks so low of his own people.
AZB
You say the same thing when you say that Sosua and Boca Chica are puta towns, inferring that all women, who by your standards are unfortunate to live there are putas. Shame on you.
I sit and lurk here and read all your rants about barrio people and your high class light skinned friends. You always claim how educated and smart they are. At least if it was a barrio chica who had been duped, again according to your standards, we could sympathize and say that she was dumb.
You have repeatedly said that your friend is from the upper class and therefore very intelligent. Tell me what is her excuse. Don't ask us to believe that she was dumb. According to you upperclass people are not dumb, that classification being reserved for the barrio people from the puta towns.
I will add that I make no distinction about people based on where they live, their standard of living or the color of their skin. Good decent people and crooks can be found at all levels of society. Maybe your friend did suffer a lapse in judgement and if so I do sympathize with her. She is not alone in this regard as there are many others who have found themselves in similar situations.
Willie
Shame on me? shame on you for not knowing a damn thing about this country.
Willie maybe you don't know this country well. The women in sosua and boca chica are 98% putassssssss!!!!! You know that, if you have any doubts ask dominican in santiago and in santo domingo.
Sorry to insult your girlfriends there.
AZB
Ay papa'
All you are doing, since your friends are not coming to your rescue, is to shift this thread and make it about me so others can comment. How pathetic, loser.
"Miguel is creating drama, Miguel is the director, Miguel is a know it all, Miguel is saying she is a mule blah blah blah". It sounds more like a girl complaining to her mother than anything else.
Before my last post, MY only reference to her being a mule was on my first post, when I said "she will be labeled as a mule". YOU, baboso, on your first post, said that she was being accused of "drug trafficking (mule)". Many others followed calling her a mule WAYYYYY before my last post.
Many know the story why my mother brought us to the US, but since you are looking for defenders, say what you want. We were not rich but much better off than you, that's for sure.
About my family in the DR, trust me, they ALL are better off than 5 AZB's.
About my friends, yes, I have A LOT of poor friends, new and from my childhood. I befriend EVERYBODY because I, unlike you, do not look down on anyone. I act the same way when around a rich person, as I do when I am around a poor person as yourself. In case you have forgotten, you are the one ALWAYS claiming NOT to associate yourself with poor barrio people.
Like I say, YOU are just trying to make this about me so others stop disagreeing with you. You want to get off topic so others stop posting about your "innocent" friend.
But let me tell you that since you are targeting me and forgetting about others with much worse posts than mine, I will NOT let you shift it. Every time you get off topic when replying to me, I will answer to you but still talk about the topic at hand.
This has nothing to do with your friend being called a mule because she is Dominican. "mules" are people who carry drugs for others, whether they are Dominicans, Mexicans, Venezuelan or from Jupiter.
Are you telling me that I should have compassion for her because she is Dominican?. Would you had compassion for her is she was NOT your friends?. 1,000% NOT!!. YOU have all the right to call EVERYBODY a mule if in the same situation but others can not call your friend a mule?. Give me a fricking break.
And I am going to repeat what I said before, maybe she was framed. BUT her act is one of a mule, even if she didn't know.
Now, instead of being such a "complaining little girl", why don't you respond to the other member's posts?.
I must add, for the record, that your "crying display" is very shameful, dissapointing and embarassing. You are acting much WORSE than those members you always complain about, you know, the ones that "can bring it" but "can not take it".
YOU expect EVERYBODY to respect your opinions but the second MANY others are not agreeing with you, you turn into a little "putita".
TRULY EMBARASSING!!.
Btw: I am so embarrassed for you that I will fire you from the "BigBoysClub", wahahahahahahahaha!.
Ps: Willie, A.Hidalgo, Corsair, Cobraboy and others:
Don't waste your time posting, AZB do not care about your posts/opinions (unless they are agreeing with him). Haven't you guys noticed that he only replies to mine(and when he doesn't, he has to make a reference about me) and only to say nonsense that has nothing to do with the thread. He must think he is fooling anybody other than himself. Go figure.
ETD:
YO, AZB, maybe, just maybe, we don't know about the country, but we DO know about what SOME people are capable of doing!. One thing has NOTHING to do with the other. A LOT of rich, well-educated Dominicans, Colombians, Venezuelan, etc., that didn't need to do such a thing, are known to do the same thing your friend did (again, framed or not). Read the fricking newspapers and watch the news, BUDDY!!.
I swear, plain EMBARASSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>
Man, this post is so pathetic that I am getting embarrassed FOR YOU!.
All you are doing, since your friends are not coming to your rescue, is to shift this thread and make it about me so others can comment. How pathetic, loser.
"Miguel is creating drama, Miguel is the director, Miguel is a know it all, Miguel is saying she is a mule blah blah blah". It sounds more like a girl complaining to her mother than anything else.
Before my last post, MY only reference to her being a mule was on my first post, when I said "she will be labeled as a mule". YOU, baboso, on your first post, said that she was being accused of "drug trafficking (mule)". Many others followed calling her a mule WAYYYYY before my last post.
Many know the story why my mother brought us to the US, but since you are looking for defenders, say what you want. We were not rich but much better off than you, that's for sure.
About my family in the DR, trust me, they ALL are better off than 5 AZB's.
About my friends, yes, I have A LOT of poor friends, new and from my childhood. I befriend EVERYBODY because I, unlike you, do not look down on anyone. I act the same way when around a rich person, as I do when I am around a poor person as yourself. In case you have forgotten, you are the one ALWAYS claiming NOT to associate yourself with poor barrio people.
Like I say, YOU are just trying to make this about me so others stop disagreeing with you. You want to get off topic so others stop posting about your "innocent" friend.
But let me tell you that since you are targeting me and forgetting about others with much worse posts than mine, I will NOT let you shift it. Every time you get off topic when replying to me, I will answer to you but still talk about the topic at hand.
This has nothing to do with your friend being called a mule because she is Dominican. "mules" are people who carry drugs for others, whether they are Dominicans, Mexicans, Venezuelan or from Jupiter.
Are you telling me that I should have compassion for her because she is Dominican?. Would you had compassion for her is she was NOT your friends?. 1,000% NOT!!. YOU have all the right to call EVERYBODY a mule if in the same situation but others can not call your friend a mule?. Give me a fricking break.
And I am going to repeat what I said before, maybe she was framed. BUT her act is one of a mule, even if she didn't know.
Now, instead of being such a "complaining little girl", why don't you respond to the other member's posts?.
I must add, for the record, that your "crying display" is very shameful, dissapointing and embarassing. You are acting much WORSE than those members you always complain about, you know, the ones that "can bring it" but "can not take it".
YOU expect EVERYBODY to respect your opinions but the second MANY others are not agreeing with you, you turn into a little "putita".
TRULY EMBARASSING!!.
Btw: I am so embarrassed for you that I will fire you from the "BigBoysClub", wahahahahahahahaha!.
Ps: Willie, A.Hidalgo, Corsair, Cobraboy and others:
Don't waste your time posting, AZB do not care about your posts/opinions (unless they are agreeing with him). Haven't you guys noticed that he only replies to mine(and when he doesn't, he has to make a reference about me) and only to say nonsense that has nothing to do with the thread. He must think he is fooling anybody other than himself. Go figure.
ETD:
YO, AZB, maybe, just maybe, we don't know about the country, but we DO know about what SOME people are capable of doing!. One thing has NOTHING to do with the other. A LOT of rich, well-educated Dominicans, Colombians, Venezuelan, etc., that didn't need to do such a thing, are known to do the same thing your friend did (again, framed or not). Read the fricking newspapers and watch the news, BUDDY!!.
I swear, plain EMBARASSING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>
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