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Pedro Clisante at night is like a police state.
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DonDR,
Suprise me, who do you think will be buying land and properties in a dying ghost town. And what does simvolic price mean???
I don't know that, Mike. These were business owners and citizens clearly interested in developing Sosua to promote their own businesses and increase property values. Other items mentioned were installing a sewer system in Sosua and building a cultural center (perhaps between Sosua and Cabarete???). They want to inject new life into the town.
So, if that is making Sosua more like Cabarete, then I guess my answer is yes.
About the prostitutes. The DR as a country has a new law saying prostitutes cannot be on the street. It's not the mayor saying so. It is the law. Thus, the bars were putting up "walls" so the prostitutes were inside and not on the street. (I am not expressing opinions one way or another concerning this. I am merely reporting.)
This group is clearly interested in development, not laws or enforcement.
I say, they have potential to make positive things happen. Why not give them a chance?
Lindsey
The best hope for Sosua is for concerned businesses and citizens to work together to improve it. I am very happy that there are responsible people who are stepping up to the plate.
With respect to government involvement, you can be sure there is more official power being focused on Sosua than that possessed by the mayor. Politur and other agencies with police power do not report to the mayor. Sosua has no local police force but is patrolled by the national police.
There have been other reports that the Ministry of Tourism is focused on improving Sosua, and the active involvement of Politur in the town is further evidence of that.
This is the right time to work for a better Sosua. A new mayor with a mandate from the electorate and the Ministry of Tourism working together to create an opportunity for concerned business leaders to do what they can to revitalize Sosua.
By arresting innocent people, allowing pimps to operate more freely and shaking down tourists. Brilliant.
I am curious, who decides who is a prostitute and who is not....the DR police...oh, that will work well.
Ken's logic reminds me of the stories my grandfather used to tell me about the good ol' Temperance Movement, back in the 1920s and 30s.
Those do-gooders wanted to change things for the better, as well. Of course they claimed the moral high-ground, all the while taking donations from organized crime, who clearly recognized a golden opportunity when they saw one.
No one needs to describe what happened to the US during the time of prohibition, but suffice it to say that the effects are still very much being felt, from Chicago to Atlantic City to Las Vegas. Make no mistake, organized crime made its start during prohibition.
I think it is fair to say that a similar situation exists now in Sosua. All the born-again crusaders are feeling their oats, thinking that at long last their "time has come". Hallelujah! Time to clean up Sosua.
All the while, the real money players are sitting back waiting for the dirty work to be done. After which, they will be able to sweep in and harvest all the easy pickings, dusting off the 'true-believers' as they reap their ill-gotten and tainted profits.
God bless 'em.
Those do-gooders wanted to change things for the better, as well. Of course they claimed the moral high-ground, all the while taking donations from organized crime, who clearly recognized a golden opportunity when they saw one.
No one needs to describe what happened to the US during the time of prohibition, but suffice it to say that the effects are still very much being felt, from Chicago to Atlantic City to Las Vegas. Make no mistake, organized crime made its start during prohibition.
I think it is fair to say that a similar situation exists now in Sosua. All the born-again crusaders are feeling their oats, thinking that at long last their "time has come". Hallelujah! Time to clean up Sosua.
All the while, the real money players are sitting back waiting for the dirty work to be done. After which, they will be able to sweep in and harvest all the easy pickings, dusting off the 'true-believers' as they reap their ill-gotten and tainted profits.
God bless 'em.
Over the past eight years, I have read hundreds of posts by Ken2. In all of his posts, I have never once seen him lash out or personally attack another DR1 citizen. His posts are always reasonable, well thought out and articulately presented. Do I always agree? No. Do I think he should be called a "clown" because his opinion differs from your own. Nope. Don't you feel it's just a bit hippocritical to state that HE is the person who has the attitude that only his opinion matters? My friend, if you want to get a good close up look at a clown...look in the mirror.
I'm very surprised that some people who actually live in the town for many years are totally blinded by what's happening.
No one says it is a bad idea to clean up the place from a few bad apples and undesirable characters. Yes, improve the infrastructure and promote development etc. Make it like Cabarete - though I personally think Cabarete is Cabarete and Sosua has it's own charm the way it is. (Can't remember how many times I met people come to Sosua from the wonderful Cabarete, day and night, to enjoy themselves, all the way from that fantastic model town !!?)
But do you think this is the way to go about it ? The photos of those stupid red curtains and glass walls are already circulating internet. The word of police state and army harassment of tourists have gone around forums a few times by now and I bet quite a few people have cancelled their travel plans as well as future visitors looking at alternatives, lost forever - and there are so many alternatives. After all Sosua didn't have much of a reputation anyway (isn't that what they are trying to change ! They went from one bad reputation to another !?).
Now you guys, expert in Sosua, really think the town will survive without tourists' money ? I have been there many times and many businesses tell me if the good high season doesn't come quick, they would have to close down no question - that's how on the edge their business is and so much depends on tourists. I doubt even DR tourists would want to visit now - they already have BC nearby, why they come all the way to another one !?
Do you think anyone will invest in a place that is going downhill with already two large and quite well established alternatives nearby (Puerto Plata and Cabarete). I bet El Batey just becomes another Charamicos, when gringos sell and move out, Dominicans and Haitians will move in.
They could have done all of this quietly and softly softly without this mess. And by the way I don't think the mayor will last even till end of her term let alone after that, the angry, hungry mob (out of work locals) camp in front of her office shouting for her resignation or worse. (My guess is she will resign well before then.)
There was a way of doing the clean up, but this was not it...
No one says it is a bad idea to clean up the place from a few bad apples and undesirable characters. Yes, improve the infrastructure and promote development etc. Make it like Cabarete - though I personally think Cabarete is Cabarete and Sosua has it's own charm the way it is. (Can't remember how many times I met people come to Sosua from the wonderful Cabarete, day and night, to enjoy themselves, all the way from that fantastic model town !!?)
But do you think this is the way to go about it ? The photos of those stupid red curtains and glass walls are already circulating internet. The word of police state and army harassment of tourists have gone around forums a few times by now and I bet quite a few people have cancelled their travel plans as well as future visitors looking at alternatives, lost forever - and there are so many alternatives. After all Sosua didn't have much of a reputation anyway (isn't that what they are trying to change ! They went from one bad reputation to another !?).
Now you guys, expert in Sosua, really think the town will survive without tourists' money ? I have been there many times and many businesses tell me if the good high season doesn't come quick, they would have to close down no question - that's how on the edge their business is and so much depends on tourists. I doubt even DR tourists would want to visit now - they already have BC nearby, why they come all the way to another one !?
Do you think anyone will invest in a place that is going downhill with already two large and quite well established alternatives nearby (Puerto Plata and Cabarete). I bet El Batey just becomes another Charamicos, when gringos sell and move out, Dominicans and Haitians will move in.
They could have done all of this quietly and softly softly without this mess. And by the way I don't think the mayor will last even till end of her term let alone after that, the angry, hungry mob (out of work locals) camp in front of her office shouting for her resignation or worse. (My guess is she will resign well before then.)
There was a way of doing the clean up, but this was not it...
Camden Tom, I don't see where I mentioned Ken's name in the post of mine you quoted. When I want to address Ken's posts, I do so directly, as I did in my post #94.
In the post you quoted, I was presenting a case against a generalized idea, which Ken happens to agree with. Attacking an idea is much different than attacking an individual, and I will continue to do just that.
In the post you quoted, I was presenting a case against a generalized idea, which Ken happens to agree with. Attacking an idea is much different than attacking an individual, and I will continue to do just that.
Lindsey, can you elaborate on this new LAW. This is the first I have heard of it actually being a law and not just a local decision.
Victor
I don't believe there has been any change to the law regarding women on the street. "Sweeps" of prostitutes operating outdoors have been going on throughout the DR since as long as I can remember. It was a twice annual event on Long Beach in Puerto Plata before it was bulldozed into infamous oblivion.
And today long Beach is a bustling beautiful place to be????? I dont think so. All you have is Sirena and a few shacks on the beach for a cold beer, Those places aint bad but for all the work that went into cleaning up Long beach not much was accomplished.
changes
Sosua has changed dramatically over the years. I was last there in the Summer and it left me with no desire to return. With the present clean up going on, I see another trip in the near future. What was once a tourist oriented area became a haven for drugs, hookers and other bothersome types.
I never had a problem with the CD girl. What bothered me most was the shoe vendor and wood statue guys that would always continue to stand there after having been told no. If they are gone, Sosua is better for it. The shoe shine boys now just ask for money, shinning shoes as a last resort. If I want a woman, I prefer to look in the usual places, hooker bars. It's disgusting to be accosted on the street.
For years there were essentially no drugs, now they're everywhere. It may be a result of the SUV drivers that all seem to carry guns. And it trickles down to the delivery conchos and the street kids. Clean up more is what I say. Develope some respect for the law and perhaps the new mayor is doing that.
Herman's on the corner of PC and Dr Rosen was a favorite people watching spot along with La Roca. Then came El Flow with the blaring noise that cannot be called music and ruined my spot. Add to that the tables and chairs on the sidewalk and it became more untenable. IMO the downward spiral of Sosua began at the opening of El Flow and became much worse after the earthquake in Haiti.
And then you have the men and women that fall in love with the dregs of society. The women crying about being used and taken advantage of by the sankies and the guys crying about the money they now must spend to avoid the paternity suit. Lay with dogs and get fleas.
When the number of guys coming down for the hookers is less, then Sosua will once again be what I looked for in the beginning. I will not miss the guys that can't get layed in their home country and feel they need to shout to the rooftops about their conquests. Sosua, years ago, was a charming little town that has most of what I wanted, a nice beach, cold beer, people to watch and interact with while on respite from work.
I like Ken2 and Camdentom's posts. People like catcherintherye was probably a misfit wherever he came from and doesn't like Sosua now. May he leave in peace.
Sosua has changed dramatically over the years. I was last there in the Summer and it left me with no desire to return. With the present clean up going on, I see another trip in the near future. What was once a tourist oriented area became a haven for drugs, hookers and other bothersome types.
I never had a problem with the CD girl. What bothered me most was the shoe vendor and wood statue guys that would always continue to stand there after having been told no. If they are gone, Sosua is better for it. The shoe shine boys now just ask for money, shinning shoes as a last resort. If I want a woman, I prefer to look in the usual places, hooker bars. It's disgusting to be accosted on the street.
For years there were essentially no drugs, now they're everywhere. It may be a result of the SUV drivers that all seem to carry guns. And it trickles down to the delivery conchos and the street kids. Clean up more is what I say. Develope some respect for the law and perhaps the new mayor is doing that.
Herman's on the corner of PC and Dr Rosen was a favorite people watching spot along with La Roca. Then came El Flow with the blaring noise that cannot be called music and ruined my spot. Add to that the tables and chairs on the sidewalk and it became more untenable. IMO the downward spiral of Sosua began at the opening of El Flow and became much worse after the earthquake in Haiti.
And then you have the men and women that fall in love with the dregs of society. The women crying about being used and taken advantage of by the sankies and the guys crying about the money they now must spend to avoid the paternity suit. Lay with dogs and get fleas.
When the number of guys coming down for the hookers is less, then Sosua will once again be what I looked for in the beginning. I will not miss the guys that can't get layed in their home country and feel they need to shout to the rooftops about their conquests. Sosua, years ago, was a charming little town that has most of what I wanted, a nice beach, cold beer, people to watch and interact with while on respite from work.
I like Ken2 and Camdentom's posts. People like catcherintherye was probably a misfit wherever he came from and doesn't like Sosua now. May he leave in peace.
95% of Dominicans consider Sosua to be a crap hole and they avoid it.
Even those that have never been there, talk about it as if it's full of ho's, pedophiles and crackheads etc. That's how it is, just the same way they talk about Boca Chica.
It's their country and the powers that be will enforce whatever they feel is right or on their agenda, despite how ridiculous or short sighted it may look to "outsiders". They couldn't careless about mothers that need milk and pampers, tourists that come to get laid or businesses that cater to that market.
You want to climb the ladder, make waves. The Mayors strings are being pulled from way up...
Even those that have never been there, talk about it as if it's full of ho's, pedophiles and crackheads etc. That's how it is, just the same way they talk about Boca Chica.
It's their country and the powers that be will enforce whatever they feel is right or on their agenda, despite how ridiculous or short sighted it may look to "outsiders". They couldn't careless about mothers that need milk and pampers, tourists that come to get laid or businesses that cater to that market.
You want to climb the ladder, make waves. The Mayors strings are being pulled from way up...
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