44% would not suffice

the gorgon

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come to think of iti have never seen anyone with maestria use their title along with the name. only laughable licenciados do it. and i say laughable because i know a few and none even knows how to spell. take a seat. your title means nothing.

i am looking at a business card handed to me by a guy who is a loanshark. the guy has the insights of a ten year old, but is good at collecting his debts. it says Lic. Fausto Perez (name changed, of course). it is a joke title.
 

dv8

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Well, It is indeed an accomplishment , especially when you're poor. (...) Of course, you feel proud when you graduate!

i don't really care how much of an accomplishment is that when some folks graduate being as dumb as when they started. a title is worthless if you did not actually learn anything.
 
Aug 6, 2006
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i don't really care how much of an accomplishment is that when some folks graduate being as dumb as when they started. a title is worthless if you did not actually learn anything.

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The title will sometimes get one a job. Upon occasion, one will then learn what was supposed to learn to be competent in that job. If the administration just wants someone with a title, occasionally someone that knows diddly and plays it all by ear can keep a job. No one has yet devised a foolproof way of establishing a practical scale for teacher competency. The teachers that have the hardest jobs are the ones that have the least prepared students. Teaching well prepared, well motivated students is not at all a hard chore: in fact it is delightful. Students who are motivated to master the subject will research to the degree that they often know more than the teacher.


The salaries paid are often the inverse of the effort required. The community college or government university teacher in the DR and most of Latin America has to motivate and do remedial work for the students and is paid very little. Someone teaching in an Ivy League university gets a six figure salary. I have heard that the best universities in the DR are the rather expensive private ones. I know that this is true in other Hispanic countries.
 

bob saunders

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Are these books available in Spanish?
I have found that there are a huge number of really clever and imaginative books for teaching basic skills in English, but there are not even a twentieth as many available in Spanish.

The best I have found were published, in order, in Puerto Rico, Spain, Mexico and Argentina.

I imagine there are similar books available in Spanish. I wasn't so much recommending that particular set of books, as commenting on what I believe is necessary to start changing the education system by educating the teachers. It's where I'd start if I was in charge.
 

Chirimoya

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Surprisingly I've never seen a "BA (failed)" or "BA (Inc.)" here.

So many people start university but never graduate.
 

the gorgon

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Well, It is indeed an accomplishment , especially when you're poor. With all the hassles you have to go through to graduate, having to work and study at the same time. All you have to spend: transportation, books, even in cheaper universities, tuition is not cheap for a local. Having to travel in cramped mini buses and conchos with people with chickens or dudes with stinky armpits. Having to go even if there's a strike on the road and you could get hurt. Staying home to study while your friends go clubbing, etc. Of course, you feel proud when you graduate!

Aguaita, i know exactly what you are talking about. however, i find it odd that people who graduate with a BA demand that their friends address them that way. that is a little over the top.
 

Aguaita29

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i don't really care how much of an accomplishment is that when some folks graduate being as dumb as when they started. a title is worthless if you did not actually learn anything.

I understand what you're saying. For example, I know some Licenciados en Lenguas Modernas who can barely communicate in English. Some of them can't even handle basic stuff like the alphabet or numbers in English. But still, they did find jobs.

keep in mind that a title opens up the possibility to land better job opportunities. Possibilities that were zero before the title. That's what people in poor countries are mainly pursuing. You can also have the opportunity to move forward by pursuing a better education.
 
Aug 6, 2006
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I imagine there are similar books available in Spanish. I wasn't so much recommending that particular set of books, as commenting on what I believe is necessary to start changing the education system by educating the teachers. It's where I'd start if I was in charge.
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I have found very few books on methodology in Spanish.
I guess this applies to all Spanish-speaking countries, because none of them including Spain, are in the higher rankings of educational effectiveness. To improve education in these countries, I think there are 24 counting PR, there needs to be books on methodology and best practices in Spanish in print and available. They could be translations from English, German, Russian, Chinese, French or whatever, or they could be written originally in Spanish, but it is probably essential that books on these subjects are available in Spanish to improve education.
 

dv8

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keep in mind that a title opens up the possibility to land better job opportunities. Possibilities that were zero before the title. That's what people in poor countries are mainly pursuing. You can also have the opportunity to move forward by pursuing a better education.

and this is why their laughable titles are laughable. because they are given to complete zeros who are not qualified to to whatever job they will get after they managed to become a licenciado.
 

ROLLOUT

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The purpose of your post is?
My wife prior to hiring any of the teachers or assistants at the school gives them a test that consists of a mixture of Grade 5 math, Grade Eight math, and Grade 5 Spanish and history, with a few other questions on other subjects. Most applicants fail the math and history parts. Many of the younger applicants that have just finished high school do much better with the English and Math.
Everyone has heard of the dumbing down of America; the DR just needs to Smarten-up. It is relatively easy to spend more money on Education and introduce new educational approaches but it takes generations to make incremental changes to the attitude towards education for a whole country and culture.
Some people sent their children to a private school for the social status but the majority really want and hope their children receive a better education.

The purpose of my post was to imply that your response to my response of Chip's post was irrelevant,
 

CarpeDReam

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Didn't read everyone's posts but to be fair if you were to ask most Americans the same question they would probably say 1492...(Columbus never stepped foot on the US and died not knowing it existed)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

the gorgon

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Didn't read everyone's posts but to be fair if you were to ask most Americans the same question they would probably say 1492...(Columbus never stepped foot on the US and died not knowing it existed)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

very true. i believe that most Americans do believe that Columbus did land in America sometime around 1492.
 

Aguaita29

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and this is why their laughable titles are laughable. because they are given to complete zeros who are not qualified to to whatever job they will get after they managed to become a licenciado.
Yeah but your point was that they're worthless. They do serve a purpose for those who get them and are they're accomplishment. What do you suggest, if you can't go to an expensive university or one abroad, then no one should study?
That would be even worse!
 

Aguaita29

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Aguaita, i know exactly what you are talking about. however, i find it odd that people who graduate with a BA demand that their friends address them that way. that is a little over the top.
I've never heard anyone demanding their friends to call them Licenciados. Yeah, that sounds totally over the top!
 

the gorgon

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I've never heard anyone demanding their friends to call them Licenciados. Yeah, that sounds totally over the top!

i dated a girl once who did remind me that she was no longer Ana, but Licenciada Ana. she signed her name that way in her emails to me. i found it bizarre.
 

dv8

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Yeah but your point was that they're worthless. They do serve a purpose for those who get them and are they're accomplishment. What do you suggest, if you can't go to an expensive university or one abroad, then no one should study?
That would be even worse!

higher education is not for everyone. full stop. people have their limitations and they should recognize that. or would you prefer a moron who does not know the alphabet to teach your kids? what would they learn? how to be stupid, nothing more. would you like an idiot who cannot do basic calculations to design and build your house? would you like a fool to perform a surgery on you?

not everyone can or needs to get higher education. and giving jobs to unqualified people just because they managed to scrap the remains of their brain cells together to get the title of a licenciado is a mistake. hell, to give a title of licenciado to a complete dimwits who cannot read without moving their mouth and following words with their fingers is a mistake and should not happen. this is not striving to BE better. this is striving to SEEM better!
 

Chip

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Yeah but your point was that they're worthless. They do serve a purpose for those who get them and are they're accomplishment. What do you suggest, if you can't go to an expensive university or one abroad, then no one should study?
That would be even worse!

Forget it prima these gringos will never understand. That's why they are called "sangru".
 

bob saunders

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I have gone to several doctors that have their degrees from UASD and they were good doctors. The same for a number of other professionals I met or had dealings with. Several of the Guzman lawyers I used were graduates of UASD and they were professionals that knew what they were doing. I know there are many our there that you could say the degree isn't worth the money it cost to print it, but there are many that ern their degree and they know their subject.