Abuse And The Dominican Woman...

[yvette]

As I've read posts from different threads here on the dr1 forum I must ask this question: Is abuse (mental, emotional, physical, sexual etc.) commonplace for the Domincan woman in the DR, and are there laws to protect her rights as a woman and citizen of the DR?

Yvette

 

[Marianopolita]

Yes sadly enough

Female abuse as described in your post is prevalent in the DR and most of the cases are unknown and not reported. If you read the newspaper regularly there's always a headline 'hombre mata a su mujer y se suicida'. Since 2001 I have kept some really good articles from a paper that is no longer in circulation (El Siglo) for personal interest on this subject matter. Since I have been following reported cases etc. I can say there are more now than ever before and even legal action can be pursued. The core problems that are a result of this abuse are multi-layered but cultural factors and silence (the women's fear to speak up) are two of the key ones.

LDG.

 

[Marianopolita]

Here are some interesting stats.

Here are some interesting stats about violence against women in the DR. It was published in Hoy Digital on March 31, 2005:

- 24 % of Dominican women between ages 15-49 have been physically abused by their spouse or significant other. The Study was conducted by Profamilia.

- the risk of abuse can go as high as 40% for separated and divorced women and as high as 33 % for domestic workers.

-as high as 67% of women are emotionally abused by their spouse or ex-spouse. (emotional abuse as a form of control over their lives).

- El art?culo 309-1 de la Ley 24-97 on Domestic Violence protects women against all abuse emotional or physical, public or private, that causes emotional, physical or sexual suffering by means of physical force or violence. (just a brief and gist translation of the law).

BTW there is a wealth of information on this subject if you do a search under 'Violencia Intrafamiliar en la Rep?blica Dominicana'. You will find several newspaper articles from El Listin Diario, Hoy Digital, Diario Libre as well as some great government websites on laws that have now been established in the DR to protect women and children against domestic violence.

Here is the link to the newspaper article in full:

Violencia intrafamiliar


LDG.

As I've read posts from different threads here on the dr1 forum I must ask this question: Is abuse (mental, emotional, physical, sexual etc.) commonplace for the Domincan woman in the DR, and are there laws to protect her rights as a woman and citizen of the DR?

Yvette

 

[yvette]

Lesley, thanks for the link to the newspaper artical and the info on the laws regarding domestic violence, because this kind of abuse is an act of violence. Are there no women government officials who will go to bat for the cause of protecting these women, and to help enforce stronger laws to convict and sentence to jail, these perpetrators?

Yvette

 

[Marianopolita]

Yvette,

You are welcome.

This process is all very recent (in general terms) and I have plenty of reading to do on the subject matter because it is of great interest to me. However, keep in mind even with laws and penalties etc. the system will never be 100% effective because of these underlying factors in my opinion:

1) abused women need to come forward without fear
2) socioeconomic factors influence domestic violence tremendously
3) EDUCATION- my favorite word, my personal mantra. It applies to all facets of life. If only people could understand the bigger picture.
4) poverty
5) cultural influences- I know for a fact that some women don't even know that what they are experiencing is a form of abuse. Acceptance and complacency will always allow the abuse to continue.

I wish I could elaborate further right now about the laws and punishment but as I said I have to keep reading because finally something is being done about female abuse in the DR. I may have some more info for you in a few days.

LDG.

Lesley, thanks for the link to the newspaper artical and the info on the laws regarding domestic violence, because this kind of abuse is an act of violence. Are there no women government officials who will go to bat for the cause of protecting these women, and to help enforce stronger laws to convict and sentence to jail, these perpetrators?

Yvette

 

[HOWMAR]

Lesley, thanks for the link to the newspaper artical and the info on the laws regarding domestic violence, because this kind of abuse is an act of violence. Are there no women government officials who will go to bat for the cause of protecting these women, and to help enforce stronger laws to convict and sentence to jail, these perpetrators?

Yvette

You expect a woman to report her abuser and have him sent to jail. There is no social service safety net in this country. If he goes to jail, she and the children have on roof over their heads or food to eat.

 

[planner]

Lesley, thank you for this information. I find almost all your posts to be well written, well thought out and informative.

As my spanish is still limited it is very helpful for me when you write the condensed versions.

YOu are so right, nothing changes without education.

Howmar - you are exactly correct. A woman needs financial security or at least a safety net before she is going to be able and willing to report her abuse.

Unfortunately alot of abuse is not recognised as it does not leave visibel scars! We live here in a culture of acceptance. It happens everywhere so it is normal. I say it shouldn't be.

 

[MerengueDutchie]

careful

Even though I understand the POV of the posters, it might be worthwhile to stop and think about the projection one's own cultural values into an environment that might have a different view on these issues..

Is it true that the Dominican society and culture holds the same values towards this behaviour than let's say the North American culture.. if not then is it our collective place to correct this issue or should we ponder on the cultural and societal independence and its consequences?

In other words.. do we try and enforce our own values as being correct or do we understand that things might be different elsewhere.. but still offer our own values as a good example of how things can be done differently?

I am now going off into my fireproof bunker.. so flame away

 

[rellosk]

You expect a woman to report her abuser and have him sent to jail. There is no social service safety net in this country. If he goes to jail, she and the children have on roof over their heads or food to eat.

In many of these situations I'm sure they abuser is not providing much financial support in the first place.

 

[planner]

rellosk - in many cases they provide very little financial support, but many women feel it is better then nothing. There is also all the social stigmas attached to having been a battered woman, to being a single woman, to being alone to raise the children.

Many women, rightly or wrongly, stick with what they know and are used to. The thought of change to the unknown can be too much.

Merengue - I think that we have to support the culture and society here in ways that make sense for them. I don't think we get to impose our standards but we do get to offer the assistance and education. THen maybe change will happen that this culture calls for....

I am not a sociologist and don't have answers for you... just my opinions.

 

[Larry]

Disclaimer: I am in no way a proponent of spousal abuse.

Having said that, I find it interesting how we as Americans, Canadians, Europeans or what have you can migrate to a particular country, identify a cultural problem such as this and then argue what should be done to fix it.

Many women in the DR dont have the options and services available to them that we are familiar with. Howmar gave a good example of that.

I completely understand and agree with ex-pats complaining about the economy, pollution and whatever else directly affects them however, deep rooted cultural problems do not AND, they are not an outsiders buisness.

We dont have to stick our noses into and inflict our ideals onto every facet of Dominican culture do we?

I am expecting a flurry or angry responses to this but lets take a moment to think about what I said before we let our emotions get the better of us, ok?

Larry

 

[rellosk]

In other words.. do we try and enforce our own values as being correct or do we understand that things might be different elsewhere.. but still offer our own values as a good example of how things can be done differently?

These are pretty much universal values throughout the Judeo-Christian world. Since the DR is already a Catholic country, this would not be a matter of 'us' inflicting our values on 'them'.

 

[miguel]

Here I it goes again!

Man, I will get so much heat for this!!.

I must say that, as Lesley said, to me, education is the key to almost ALL society's problems.

I said it on another thread and I will say it again, but just remember that this is MY OPINION and that not everybody is the same:

TO ME (note: ToO ME), SOME (note: SOME) dominican males are the worse "treaters" of females!. But, I must say:

It has to do with the way the person was brought-up. If you are raised believing that women are "second hand citizens", you will treat them accordingly. If you are raised seeing your father not respect your mother, if you are raised seeing your male relatives have 3 different girlfriends even if they are married, if you are raised believing that it's ok to father kids with other women while you are married, if you are raised seeing your male relatives spent almost all their money on booze and women BEFORE they take care of their kids and house responsabilities, if you are raised believing that ALL the house's chores are supposed to be done by the females, if you are raised believing that the women words means nothing, if you are raised believing that you can get your ways with your ex-partner even after your relationship ended, if are raised to believe that it's fine to come home late or sleep outside of the house even when you are married, if you are raised to believe that it's ok NOT to treat your kids with love and care, if you are raised to believe that the male can over-rule any decision that the females make, if you are raised believing that you can do whatever in hell you want because you are "THE MAN OF THE HOUSE", if you are raised believing that you can use and abuse females mentally, emotionally, verbally and physically............... THEN you are being EDUCATED TO BE JUST THE SAME AS THE MALE "ROLE MODEL"!!!!!!!. (Btw, I could had given 100's of other examples).

I must admit that NOT everybody is the same. SOME are raised the way that I mentioned above and they DO NOT behave that way towards females.

I, all the time, count my lucky stars that I was raised by my wonderful mother, God rest her soul, here in the US, and not by my father. A great man but raised(educated) without love.

I truly believe that many dominican males are products of their education. How did I got to that conclusion?. :

While on vacation in the DR, back in 1985 (I think), when I was 23, I was buying some things in El Conde when I saw this guy in the back seat of a "carro de concho"(taxi) beating the hell out of a woman (crap, he was even biting her forehead). I just can NOT stay away when I see a female being beaten. My 2 dominican friends told me to "mind my own business", to "let it go". Others said "en cosa the marido y mujer uno no se mete" (one should not get involved in husbands/wives matters). The car driver told me that "that's his wife, he can do whatever he wants", a police officer that came to the scene said "they are married, soon they will be happy again". Others said that "ella se lo busco" (she asked for it). I am not a violent person whatsoever but I just told the mother f'er to come out of the car so he can see how it feels to be beaten by someone that will fight back. When he saw that I meant "business" and that my 2 friends were holding me back with force, he came out of the car and run as his axx was on fire. She just said "thanks" and off she went.

Did she went back to him?, I bet she did. Did he beat her again?, I bet he did. Did he got away with it?, I bet be did. Did others just stood "there" looking and did nothing while he beat her?, I bet some did. Did many think that I did the wrong thing?, I can not care less. Would I do it again?, IF I SEE IT EVERY SINGLE DAY, I WILL DO EXACTLY THE SAME EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!!.

Bottom line: EDUCATION is the key to just about everything in life.

Ps: This problems exists in EVERY SINGLE country on earth.

 

[planner]

MIguel I really do have to agree with you on most of this. We live what we learn! That isn't just a saying. Very few people break out of the mold.

And further to that, we teach people how to treat us. Many women from developed countries are still trying to learn that one! And we are bombarded with information in our cultures.

 

[hollywood north]

Violence against anyone is despicable, and as has been stated this is a world-wide problem, spannig all races, religions, and sexes (cuz yes there ARE abused men) so saying it's 'cultural' and 'should we inflict our beliefs on others' - to me is a cop out. What if it was a neighbour of yours in Canada/US /GB wherever? Do you just say oh well?

Agreed it's education and breaking the cycle.


Miguel - we need more like you - everywhere.

 

[DominicanScotty]

Gotta agree with you

Even though I understand the POV of the posters, it might be worthwhile to stop and think about the projection one's own cultural values into an environment that might have a different view on these issues..

Is it true that the Dominican society and culture holds the same values towards this behaviour than let's say the North American culture.. if not then is it our collective place to correct this issue or should we ponder on the cultural and societal independence and its consequences?

In other words.. do we try and enforce our own values as being correct or do we understand that things might be different elsewhere.. but still offer our own values as a good example of how things can be done differently?

I am now going off into my fireproof bunker.. so flame away

Even though we all agree that abuses are going on. To think that foreigners can simply walk in and change everything overnight is foolish at best. As others have mentioned. What happens to the woman (and children) when the spouse gets out of jail? Oh he will be getting out of jail and then there will be he** to repay when he does! Is there any support already in place to help these now homeless women and children? Chances are that if the woman returns back to her parent's home even her own father will not accept her after she did what she just did to her husband. When a man has a problem with his wife this is the first thing he tells her "go home to your father and he will teach you a lesson". The roots of this culture runs very deep and one should be very careful about what they start.

 

[RHM]

Violence against anyone is despicable, and as has been stated this is a world-wide problem, spannig all races, religions, and sexes (cuz yes there ARE abused men) so saying it's 'cultural' and 'should we inflict our beliefs on others' - to me is a cop out. What if it was a neighbour of yours in Canada/US /GB wherever? Do you just say oh well?

Agreed it's education and breaking the cycle.


Miguel - we need more like you - everywhere.

Regardless of culture or whatever I believe people have the "universal right to not have their *** kicked". Call me a simpleton.

Miguel. I know how you feel. If I see it I lose my mind.

I was in Antwerp, Belgium in 1989 with a buddy. We were on the street late at night and saw two men slapping the hell out of some woman. Then one started to kick and punch her. We didn't even hesitate. As we were issuing our ***-whooping to these two waffle-heads the cops pulled up. The woman told them what happened. They called another car for the two wussies then the two cops bought us a beer. It wasn't my "business" but I sure as hell wouldn't want someone to just stand there as I get my *** handed to me by two guys.

Keeping someone from getting physicall abused is not "inflicting our values on a society". Trust me I am not your typical "do-gooder" but there are basic rights that we all have.

So they next time "YOU" are getting the short end of the stick and start to cry foul. Remember, "you shouldn't inflict your values on other societies."

Scandall

 

[Larry]

Violence against anyone is despicable, and as has been stated this is a world-wide problem, spannig all races, religions, and sexes (cuz yes there ARE abused men) so saying it's 'cultural' and 'should we inflict our beliefs on others' - to me is a cop out. What if it was a neighbour of yours in Canada/US /GB wherever? Do you just say oh well?

This is the kind of response I expected from some people. Why don't you go and read my post again? Maybe if you do, you will understand it.

I was using this thread as an example of how we insist on trying to impose our ideals on other cultures. This thread is just one small example of that. I was hoping you would understand that. The fact that it is a touchy subject causes people to respond without digesting what they read.

Let me try a different angle. Let's say that you are in your home city of Toronto or Boston or wherever you may be. Let's say in recent years, there has been a sudden influx of immigrants from Russia or Japan or Afghanistan or wherever. They bring with them certain ideals which are different from what you practice. They might notice that there is an aspect of YOUR culture which is in their eyes archaic. Something, such as the topic we are discussing, which their culture corrected long ago but which is still a problem in your society. In this case, would they be right, as foreigners to tell you, " What I see in your culture is wrong. This is how you can fix it. I can help you." Would they be well recieved in doing so? Should they do it? I don't think so.

I think certain things about Dominican culture we, as foreigners, should leave to Dominicans to iron out. Like I said in my previous post, we don't have to stick out noses everywhere. We should recognize where to draw the line.

Larry

 

[RHM]

This is the kind of response I expected from some people. Why don't you go and read my post again? Maybe if you do, you will understand it.

I was using this thread as an example of how we insist on trying to impose our ideals on other cultures. This thread is just one small example of that. I was hoping you would understand that. The fact that it is a touchy subject causes people to respond without digesting what they read.

Let me try a different angle. Let's say that you are in your home city of Toronto or Boston or wherever you may be. Let's say in recent years, there has been a sudden influx of immigrants from Russia or Japan or Afghanistan or wherever. They bring with them certain ideals which are different from what you practice. They might notice that there is an aspect of YOUR culture which is in their eyes archaic. Something, such as the topic we are discussing, which their culture corrected long ago but which is still a problem in your society. In this case, would they be right, as foreigners to tell you, " What I see in your culture is wrong. This is how you can fix it. I can help you." Would they be well recieved in doing so? Should they do it? I don't think so.

I think certain things about Dominican culture we, as foreigners, should leave to Dominicans to iron out. Like I said in my previous post, we don't have to stick out noses everywhere. We should recognize where to draw the line.

Larry

Larry, I agree with you in principle. We only part ways when it comes to "basic human rights". We're not talking about voting irregularities or the fact that the rule of law is sketchy at best, or public health conditions that would choke a maggot. We're talking about the right to "not get your *** kicked". There are very few things that I feel so strongly about that I would "stick my nose in". That is one.

As for the rest....I agree.

Scandall

 

[Larry]

Larry, I agree with you in principle. We only part ways when it comes to "basic human rights". We're not talking about voting irregularities or the fact that the rule of law is sketchy at best, or public health conditions that would choke a maggot. We're talking about the right to "not get your *** kicked". There are very few things that I feel so strongly about that I would "stick my nose in". That is one.

As for the rest....I agree.

Scandall

Thank you Scandall, you understand my post. And, I do not blame you.

Larry