Abuse And The Dominican Woman...

[Shelby Stokes]

Not an attack

Disclaimer: I am in no way a proponent of spousal abuse.

Having said that, I find it interesting how we as Americans, Canadians, Europeans or what have you can migrate to a particular country, identify a cultural problem such as this and then argue what should be done to fix it.

Many women in the DR dont have the options and services available to them that we are familiar with. Howmar gave a good example of that.

I completely understand and agree with ex-pats complaining about the economy, pollution and whatever else directly affects them however, deep rooted cultural problems do not AND, they are not an outsiders buisness.

We dont have to stick our noses into and inflict our ideals onto every facet of Dominican culture do we?

I am expecting a flurry or angry responses to this but lets take a moment to think about what I said before we let our emotions get the better of us, ok?

Larry

Larry,

I was just thinking of a situation, hypothetical, told to me from a friend. If you were walking down a dirt road and came across a family in a mudhole waist-deep, who have been there for as long as they can remember, would you offer them assistance to get out of the mud?

I do not think that the issue here is that we sould not offer the assistance, because we should. The issue, to me, is that when a group has only know one way for as long as they can remember then we (those that have a more recent knowledge) should release that to them and perhaps have the patience to see if the group desires to apply it to themselves.

Now this is to never be done with a forceful hand, that would be met with resistence, naturally. If the people of DR desire to change the laws, culturally, we can assist then we should.

Then again, my friend say I am crazy.

Peace,
Shelby Stokes

 

[MerengueDutchie]

how I learned an interesting lesson

True story about giving unsollicited advice to Dominican people

One day I passed by the house of a Dominican friend. His two sons where outside the house with a large and heavy package, which they needed to get into their office.. which was problematic because of the location and size and weight of the package..we stood around talking and I offered my insights on how, if I had to solve this, would do it.. as a result the two men decided to do it in an entirely different way.. not incorporating any of the principles I offered to the discussion.. as a result one of them tore his pants, one had some scrathces on his arms, they did not succeed and called one of the other workers to put it in a different place than they originally intended to put it and on which they ad spent considerable time and physical effort..

So they ended up with torn clothes, mission not accomplished... but they did not implement any advice from the 'americano'...

At first I had difficulty believing what I saw; but my lesson for that day was... never ever give advice to a Dominican unless they specifically ask for it.. and then of course I charge them for it

So I can imagine how well advice on 'how to treat your woman' from an American female would go over.. please post when any of you will attempt this and I will start selling tickets..

 

[Larry]

Larry,

I was just thinking of a situation, hypothetical, told to me from a friend. If you were walking down a dirt road and came across a family in a mudhole waist-deep, who have been there for as long as they can remember, would you offer them assistance to get out of the mud?

I do not think that the issue here is that we sould not offer the assistance, because we should. The issue, to me, is that when a group has only know one way for as long as they can remember then we (those that have a more recent knowledge) should release that to them and perhaps have the patience to see if the group desires to apply it to themselves.

Now this is to never be done with a forceful hand, that would be met with resistence, naturally. If the people of DR desire to change the laws, culturally, we can assist then we should.

Then again, my friend say I am crazy.

Peace,
Shelby Stokes

You are talking apples and oranges. I think most of us forget, or most likely dont realize that the rest of the world looks through a different prism than we do. To us, we see things cut and dry. We can distinguish right and wrong, and we have our ideology on how things should be. We see something "wrong" with another culture, through our prism, and since we see it as wrong, we assume that anyone else who sees it any other way than we do has to be wrong. I am speaking in general terms so stick with me here. Ok....now...you can import women from scores of countries around the world to NY, or Boston, or Chicago and show them how the average American woman leads her life. These foreign women would observe an American woman who gets up at the crack of dawn, gets her kids ready for school, goes to work, works for 8 or 9 hours, goes to pick her kids up at day care, goes grocery shopping with the kids, calls her husband on her cell phone and tells him to pick up a pizza, gets home, eats a slice of pizza, helps the kids with their homework and then...falls into bed. Next day she repeats basically the same routine with a few differences. Through the foreign womens prism, THIS lifestyle would probably seem like abuse; but we see it as survival in the modern world.

What I am saying is that every culture is different and you should not move to a country and try to "fix" a cultural thing that appears assinine to you but is accepted by them. It is really none of anybody's buisness. Live your life. Let everyone else live theirs.

Larry

 

[MerengueDutchie]

Ditto on Larry..

 

[RHM]

Ditto on Larry..

Come on, guys. Nobody is talking about "fixing" a culture or imposing "foreign values". Men can continue to treat their women like complete trash if they like. They can have multiple girlfriends, yell at them, refuse to help with bills, impregnate them and run off etc.

All that people are asking is that they do not kick her ***. I didn't that that was asking too much.

Scandall

 

[AZB]

I don't know, if the guy puts her through so much abuse, I guess kicking her *** wouldn't hurt her so much. I say, kick her *** too.
AZB

 

[Yari]

can I get an Amen...

but seriously men need to stop treating women like trash (whether he is beating her or not) PERIOD. In any country!! If the tables were turned and men were the ones being treated like second class citizens, then these guys would be singing a different tune :tired:

Yari

Come on, guys. Nobody is talking about "fixing" a culture or imposing "foreign values". Men can continue to treat their women like complete trash if they like. They can have multiple girlfriends, yell at them, refuse to help with bills, impregnate them and run off etc.

All that people are asking is that they do not kick her ***. I didn't that that was asking too much.

Scandall

 

[RHM]

but seriously men need to stop treating women like trash (whether he is beating her or not) PERIOD. In any country!! If the tables were turned and men were the ones being treated like second class citizens, then these guys would be singing a different tune :tired:

Yari

No. We'd just turn around and slap the snot out of you.

Scandall

 

[Yari]

Wronggggggggggg!!!!

No. We'd just turn around and slap the snot out of you.

Scandall

...because in my little hypothetical situation the MEN would be the ones getting their A$$eS beat :lick: and crying for the simple human right to not get your a$$ beat.

Yari

 

[miguel]

Lookie here!!

When treating ANY female, I will tell you guys the same thing I told my son when he was gowing up (24 soon):

"Treat females the same way you want your mother to be treated. If you mistreat any female, do not get mad when someone mistreats your mother. If you hit any female, do not get mad when someone hits your mother".

PLAIN, SIMPLE, STRAIGHT TO THE POINT AND WITH SOME "PUT YOUR MOTHER IN THE POSITION" FLAVOR!!.

 

[rellosk]

...because in my little hypothetical situation the MEN would be the ones getting their A$$eS beat :lick: and crying for the simple human right to not get your a$$ beat.

Umm... Beat me, whip me.. whoops ... wrong forum, sorry :nervous:

 

[RHM]

...because in my little hypothetical situation the MEN would be the ones getting their A$$eS beat :lick: and crying for the simple human right to not get your a$$ beat.

Yari

Ahhh. In that case I would bite and kick.

Scandall

 

[Dragonfly32837]

Umm... Beat me, whip me.. whoops ... wrong forum, sorry :nervous:

Don't joke around like that. You are going to make me whip out my handcuffs... hahaha! Yes, that's right. There is a little freak inside of me.

 

[MerengueDutchie]

but seriously men need to stop treating women like trash (whether he is beating her or not) PERIOD. In any country!! If the tables were turned and men were the ones being treated like second class citizens, then these guys would be singing a different tune :tired:

Yari

Scandall,

I guess this gives away the game.. the agenda is revealed...it is about changing the cultural values of the DR.. and if you're not willing to listen.. you'll get your a** kicked.. by the woman who things its wrond to kick her a**.. but is perfectly willing to do so to you..a better example I could not dream up myself..

So for now I stand by my position.. do not interfere in a culture that is not yours.. and respect for others values even if they are not your own..

 

[RHM]

Scandall,

I guess this gives away the game.. the agenda is revealed...it is about changing the cultural values of the DR.. and if you're not willing to listen.. you'll get your a** kicked.. by the woman who things its wrond to kick her a**.. but is perfectly willing to do so to you..a better example I could not dream up myself..

So for now I stand by my position.. do not interfere in a culture that is not yours.. and respect for others values even if they are not your own..

Go look at your last post. The one above....

I am confused. You are showing Yari's quote (another person) but target your comments towards me.

Scandall

EDITED TO INCLUDE: Ahhh. I gotcha. Never mind.

 

[britishgirl]

In the DR i have never really seen a woman being beaten by a dominicano in public but I obviously knew it happened because that kind of thing happens in every country of the world. I have seen how a lot of lower class dominican boys try to "dominate" the female though,and "take charge" as though she is just an object and a posession. But everybody in this thread seems to be talking about girls "getting their asses beaten" by dominican males, not much has been mentioned about other abuse. What about Emotional abuse and Sexual Abuse/even Rape? You've all mentioned statistics about how many women get sexually and emotionally abused by dominican men. But a female suffering any kind of abuse should be more than just another statistic. Is women getting beaten more common than sexual abuse? Because they are both just as damaging to a woman's life.

I suppose the reason that they beat women though is because they are growing up in familys where it is acceptable and no-one can stop them. The women cannot stop them and however much abuse is debated, we all know that it is wrong. Deep down,even the many males doing this to women KNOW that it is wrong. But still they won't stop because they are getting away with it. And most of the time, the victim is too scared to leave the man who is abusing her. It is the way it is, we do have to try and stop it, but I think that it is the men who need to really talk about it and be told, they need to be shown the consequences because they can't go on treating women like that. They don't deserve the respect they are given by their women.They deserve the respect that they earn, and if they are demanding this respect then they need to start earning it. Not just in DR,all over the world. xXx

 

[britishgirl]

oh sorry about the colour^ :bandit:

 

[yvette]

When treating ANY female, I will tell you guys the same thing I told my son when he was gowing up (24 soon):

"Treat females the same way you want your mother to be treated. If you mistreat any female, do not get mad when someone mistreats your mother. If you hit any female, do not get mad when someone hits your mother".

PLAIN, SIMPLE, STRAIGHT TO THE POINT AND WITH SOME "PUT YOUR MOTHER IN THE POSITION" FLAVOR!!.

Miquel, you have the right idea. Women were created to be a helper, the right partner for the man, not objects for abuse of any kind and the men on this board know this they just have extra time on their hands for foolishness.

Yvette

 

[Yari]

It's funny how some people twist your words to TRY & get their point across :tired: . Meren...ummm, all I was trying to say in my last posts was that if men were the ones being mistreated by women (like in an opposite world) then you all would be trying to aid in the cause of helping men (ALL men) in the fight for human rights. I am not saying be a crusader out in the streets and stop any man you see from beating his wife cuz that's not always a safe thing to do...BUT don't say that it is a cultural thing and that women in the DR should not be helped because its part of the culture and that's it. You are speaking as if it is impossible for Dominican people to rise above the negative things that affect them. That, my friend, is a really sad way to think of any race or culture of people...

so please don't try to use what I said to prove your point. I in no moment meant to say or wish that men should be the ones to be the second class citizens, it was just a "put yourself in my shoes" kind of comment.

Yari

Scandall,

I guess this gives away the game.. the agenda is revealed...it is about changing the cultural values of the DR.. and if you're not willing to listen.. you'll get your a** kicked.. by the woman who things its wrond to kick her a**.. but is perfectly willing to do so to you..a better example I could not dream up myself..

So for now I stand by my position.. do not interfere in a culture that is not yours.. and respect for others values even if they are not your own..

 

[MerengueDutchie]

It's funny how some people twist your words to TRY & get their point across :tired: . Meren...ummm, all I was trying to say in my last posts was that if men were the ones being mistreated by women (like in an opposite world) then you all would be trying to aid in the cause of helping men (ALL men) in the fight for human rights. I am not saying be a crusader out in the streets and stop any man you see from beating his wife cuz that's not always a safe thing to do...BUT don't say that it is a cultural thing and that women in the DR should not be helped because its part of the culture and that's it. You are speaking as if it is impossible for Dominican people to rise above the negative things that affect them. That, my friend, is a really sad way to think of any race or culture of people...

so please don't try to use what I said to prove your point. I in no moment meant to say or wish that men should be the ones to be the second class citizens, it was just a "put yourself in my shoes" kind of comment.

Yari

Yari,

Rebuke accepted..

Look at the end of the day I am not an advocate of beating people.. to me it's a sign of disrespect and lack of other communcation.. a serious failure in my book..

All I'm saying that in my opinion it is dangerous to 'fix' or 'correct' things in different cultures or circumstances withour looking at the whole picture (symptomatical cure).. this is what I (and I believe Larry too) perceived from various posters (not just you) as their approach.. if I am mistaken shame on me..

The deeper roots as to why a culture or society is like it is are relatively clear here, economical dependency coupled with strong cultural/religious beliefs about role traditional division between male and females..

As I also see your point about abuse and share your concern, I would advocate stressing the responsibility that men carry if they assume the paternal role in this model (see Nals post for a more elaborate explanation on this), rather than changing the model because I believe the whole empowerment as seen in Western society does make for uneasy male/female relationships..

Furthermore, it is my opinion that if a male accepts the traditional male role as provider and protector you need to be just that.. a strong male figure who goes out to battle for his family on a daily basis and one who will love and cherish his family.. this will earn you the love and respect of your family (including that of your wife) without destroying the traditional model of the paternal family..

In this model as in any other model each person should carry their responsibility and there should be no place for abuse..

So to me the key to diminishing the levels of abuse is stressing the responsibility of partners in each role, without changing the model as such..

In this I think that people like Larry, Nals and myself may differ from the view you and others advocate, which I understand to be changing the current relationship model for the Western one.. and while I respect your views, I do not agree with them..

Regards,

MD