Are people living in USA are really better off than us here?

[Snuffy]

Sky...there are homeless people here.

All You Rich People...If you would like to make a small donation to the Snuffy Foundation...let me know. Seriously...if I had the kind of money you guys have this is what I would do...I would go to Greece and live for six months...then go to Thailand for six...then to Brazil...then to Paris...then to India...etc.etc. You can easily find a small inexpensive flat to live in for six months. Imagine experiencing all that culture. Six months would give you plenty of time to understand that part of the world. That floats my boat. Does money really give you freedom are do you get to a point where you just want to kick back.

I have been wanting to do this for some time. This is a good place to start in order to extend this thread that AZB created because he was probably a little bored and wanted to get a rise out of everyone. Help me list the Pros and Cons of living in the USA and DR. I will start. Just add to the list.

USA PROS
- Safer healthcare
- Cleaner Public Areas
USA CONS
- In most place...more expensive
DR PROS
- Less Business Rules & Regulations
DR CONS
- Poorer Roads
- Electricity Problem

 

[laurapasinifan]

ok I didnt have time to read every post, but i did the first few. There are some long posts on this thread. First off San fransisco is another AZB poor choice to represent AMERICA... the median house price is over $600,000!!!!!!!!!! and their incomes cant touch it. few if any young people can buy a house there....and you are talking about a profession that has huge insurance premiums.. wham the deck is stacked to make the USA look bad in your comparison. The DR has a ton to offer, and obviously it is enough to pull people despite the drawbacks, but to many people it is only a vacation place not a place to live. Convicts are being deported there in HUGE numbers, a 1,000 went last mont alone i heard. When roads are taken over my bandits for the WHOLE night and NO police intervene, and the army doesnt lift a finger, the country has serious problems, no matter how nice the beaches are or how sexy the women are. When you make desicions on where to drive based onthe time of the night, you are saying there are problems. A lot has to do with getting used to a place, and many who move there get used to the problems and put them out of their mind. Thinking the low cost of living weather and women will make up for it. In america you dont have to live in the problem areas, you can move a million places there arent any problems with hectic life. In the DR there are few places to illude troubles. Thats why all the wealthy men have handguns and locks and barbed wire around their houses. Come on dont ignore that stuff, just because there is so much you like about the DR. My GF 's father lights off fire crackers every night to make it seem like there is gun fire going on so the bad guys wont come around...childish ...yes, but WHY does HE THINK LIKE THAT?.....life COULD be better ..is why. Yeah I bought the extra water tank... and batteries......if you are well off in the DR you probably have the thankless job of paying for the electricity of all those that steal it..

I liked visting before, NOW it is only a single woman that keeps my interest so fine tuned to keep returning. She loves life there and doesnt know any better, and thats enough for me. and I can overlook the trooubles, but i am not blinded enough to see that life is better there. I live in the terrible state of NY. I love the seasonal changes, have a nice house and a big yard. I have so much around me, farms, malls, buisnesses, places to work. Life isnt hectic at all. And there are so many places that are cheaper to live as well, If i wanted to. Everything always works here. the roads are great. I can drive anyplace i want to, take the boat out, go ATVing, snowmobiling. There are millions of Dominicans within 3 hours of me in every direction.... thats probably because life sucks so bad here...... and they cant get here fast enough so says the line at immigration in Santo Domingo

no I dont need to put down the DR to praise the USA, and you shouldnt have to put down the USA to praise life in the DR......I think the DR has the potential to be a place I could retire too......but not live solely in my working years. To make money in the DR , you have to have a niche some how, some way......that is just one big, bald guys opinion, who thinks right now that spending more than 30 days away from the DR is painfull.......bob

 

[Snuffy]

Bob...

I drive at all hours of the night and I never drive in fear. I get out in the dead of night and mingle with the people roadside. I always watch my back and am aware of my surroundings. I do the same in USA. I fell less safe in the USA when it comes to the people. These people are for the most part docile. You have those convicts...but you have that in the USA. In the USA you get a teenager ****ed at you, he is likely to pull a chain or gun. Here you get one angry at you and he will try to laugh it off. No...I don't fear these people like I fear the ones in the USA. That is not an issue for me. As I was saying your "convict" argument does not hold water. In fact, in the USA those who would be convicts simply get off because there is no room in the system for them. So they roam the streets. The thing about "bandits"...that maybe happens once in a blue moon. It is a rarity which is why whenever it does happen they make such a big thing out of it. But have you ever heard of carjacking in the USA? Now...thieves trying to get into your house...that is another thing. You do have to guard against that. That is true. The firecrackers sounds a little insane. Most neighborhood thieves operate in the 3am to 4am range.

I will tell you what I like about the DR. This may be the most important thing. I know all my neighbors. I can go outside and there will always be a few to sit and talk to. I can pull up at a roadside food stand and sit and talk to the people for a good hour. You never feel lonely here. People mix. People talk.

 

[AZB]

. When roads are taken over my bandits for the WHOLE night and NO police intervene, and the army doesnt lift a finger, the country has serious problems, no matter how nice the beaches are or how sexy the women are. When you make desicions on where to drive based onthe time of the night, you are saying there are problems. A lot has to do with getting used to a place, and many who move there get used to the problems and put them out of their mind. Thinking the low cost of living weather and women will make up for it. In america you dont have to live in the problem areas, you can move a million places there arent any problems with hectic life. In the DR there are few places to illude troubles. Thats why all the wealthy men have handguns and locks and barbed wire around their houses. Come on dont ignore that stuff, just because there is so much you like about the DR. My GF 's father lights off fire crackers every night to make it seem like there is gun fire going on so the bad guys wont come around...childish ...yes, but WHY does HE THINK LIKE THAT?.....life COULD be better ..is why. Yeah I bought the extra water tank... and batteries......if you are well off in the DR you probably have the thankless job of paying for the electricity of all those that steal it..
bob

I think we are not talking about the same country. You must be talking about Rwanda. Nal is right, everyone sees this coutry differently. Please bob, don 't give me an example of your experience of DR steming from resorts to the backroads of Licey Barrios.

I gave example of San fran, NYC and atlanta. Don't forget, I lived in USA for more than 25 yrs and no, I didn't just live in queens. So please give me some credit.
AZB

 

[laurapasinifan]

AZB for the 6 trips I have been to the DR, I think my path has been HUGELY diversified for someone who doesnt live there. there are few places that I havent gone. My experiences are NOT limited to LiCey and certainly not resorts. I have never booked a resort ffor more than a single day, excpept once, and that was 3 years ago when ALL my Dominican Friends wanted to take their families for a treat in La Romana, and I had to go, because they were who i was staying with. I dont like to be a position of putting down the DR... There is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much I know that i dont say. I give little tid bits here and there to keep the posts balanced. I dont want to always sound negative, I have many friends that live there. I know how life is, via them. I have seen so much more than you could possibly give me credit for....believe me. I know I have never seen the black circles where they burned tires the night before in the USA. I see them in the exact same spot every trip from Santiago to Santo Domingo, before the bridge. I saw them in San Fransisco De Macoris on my way back from Samana...luckily we were a day late. I have seen them several times On rte 1 ,before santiago and on rte 14 in Li Cey..............

I have been within 2 miles of the hatian border in the Sierra de Neiba, I have been on the shores near Monti Christi 3 miles from the truck in some swamp also near the hatian border. I have been to Samana, and now Higuey, and many times up the mountains in Constanza, and the hills in batero. I have driven some of the these places with just me and my GF.. others with my friends hunting. We have traveled many of these places late at night because the trips are so long. My friends have fully automatic rifles and pistols, and we didnt need them to shoot doves!!!!!!!!!!! and some of these same guys have lived in the USA, and didnt carry that firepower around with them there....... I have personally had a guy with a bandana over his face shoot his shotgun over the hood of my car in an effort to force me to stop!!!!!!!!!!!....do you want me to keep going..it gets worse!....????????????????????? I know these words are taken bitterly on this board, people want to hear just good things. believe me I have plenty good to say and have been saying it..........I think you should just respect my OPINION...it is only that, buddy

I am at the gun store often on my trips, we used to hunt every other day. You hear the stories first hand form people there. I have 2 buddies in the national guard. I have been to the gun range with them. they tell of the stories ......maybe you dont hear them.......maybe you dont want...I havent been spewing them, but dont take me for the wet behind the ear gringo , you have been portaying me as......BOB

 

[Snuffy]

Bob...your security is not that big a thing here. Usually you are surrounded by other people and that protects you. And the nature of these people is not to physically harm you...although it does happen...happens much less than in USA.

 

[laurapasinifan]

Bob...your security is not that big a thing here. Usually you are surrounded by other people and that protects you. And the nature of these people is not to physically harm you...although it does happen...happens much less than in USA.

I would question that on a per capita basis.......

i am not THAT paranoid.

just replying and trying to be frank

bob

 

[johne]

Very flawed

Bob...your security is not that big a thing here. Usually you are surrounded by other people and that protects you. And the nature of these people is not to physically harm you...although it does happen...happens much less than in USA.[/QUO

How can you say "security is not a big thing here"?Do you mean there is nothing you can do about your security? or, I hope you didnt mean that security is not a problem, because that statement would be uttter B.S. and certainly would not be believed EVEN by those readers that are pro DR living.

As far as "happens much less than US" I agree with the above poster that NOT on a percentage basis. Cant be-no way.

BTW--what do you mean by "the nature of these people is not to physically harm you'? What do you think they have in mind?Just curious and need enlightment so that I dont need to watch my back any longer when I walk the streets of SD.
Thanks in advance for your thought on this matter.

JOHN

 

[johne]

The Sweet life

I quite much agree with the general feeling of the 1st post... What is true for the US is also true for Europe.
Now I wish to emphatize that those of us who have the best life are the "expats"... We had the education and culture of the western world, and now we can take it easy under the coconut tree...
At the bottom of the pyramid, most folks in the barrios are dreaming of "Nueba Yol", and don?t give a damn about sweet island life...
But those of us who grew up in major western cities, studied in good schools and read Jack Kerouac are now really happy to hang out around the Monument with a cold Brahma while planning to seduce one of those most beautifull ladies ever seen...
just my 2 centavos...

I wonder why "most folks in the barrios are dreaming of New York and dont give a damn about the "sweet island life"?

I hate to be rude especially in a public forum-and moderarator you have my permission to delete my posting, BUT I must say this is ...well what can I say in public...Duhhhhhh.( I would really like to say how much of as*&#ole you are)
JOHN
whatawaytobegintheday.anotheras****e.

 

[Squat]

Johne,

If you wonder why barrio people want so deseperatly to escape their homeland, I would suggest a visit there...

I might have misunderstood your last post, I am not sure I got your point...
My point is that, yes, it is very easy for an expat to have a good life down here in DR, versus the situation of a poor uneducated dominican, whose example of success are relatives living in Washington Heights.

Now, I am not saying this is fair. I am not saying this is justice.... It's just the way it is...

We all grab the opportunities we can.

For a guy in the barrio, that would be a visa for the USA. For a westerner, that might be a nice life under the coconut tree...

No offense, just trying to clarify my views...

 

[johne]

I guess

Johne,

If you wonder why barrio people want so deseperatly to escape their homeland, I would suggest a visit there...

I might have misunderstood your last post, I am not sure I got your point...
My point is that, yes, it is very easy for an expat to have a good life down here in DR, versus the situation of a poor uneducated dominican, whose example of success are relatives living in Washington Heights.

Now, I am not saying this is fair. I am not saying this is justice.... It's just the way it is...

We all grab the opportunities we can.

For a guy in the barrio, that would be a visa for the USA. For a westerner, that might be a nice life under the coconut tree...

No offense, just trying to clarify my views...

No offense taken other than the reference that perhaps I "should pay a visit there "which implies I dont know what I'm taking about. Other than that I guess I understand your point but ..Washingtion Heights is not the end all of the Dom's dream, its a LOT more complex than that and if you dont understand that I cant help you (or want to)
Yes , I do know know a great deal about Dominican life both there, where I travel to every month and here where I reside for the other 4 weeks of the month.In fact I probably know very little about the lives of ex-pats.I want to understand more about ex-pats and Ill explore that in a new post in the next few days. Right now I need to go to work , make money, put up with a lot of stress and hope I can meet all my expenses this week, and eat at least one meal today. Yea right.

JOHN

JOHN

 

[Larry]

It sounds like Bob has seen more of this country than 99% of the tourists that visit. I live here and it sounds like he has seen more of it than I have. I admire him for getting out and exploring when he is here. I feel thats where the majority of tourists cheat themselves, they dont explore but rather, sit on a beach with a big drink with an umbrella in it and go back home bragging how much they know about the "Dominican". However, I think you are painting an unfair picture of the DR as far as safety. I am not doubting that everything you relayed in your posts is 100% accurate Bob but the fact it that this is a big country and there are plenty of places to visit where people are not buring tires or shooting over the hood of your car. Like anywhere else, we have to use common sense here. You and I are both from NY; have you ever walked the streets of Brownsville Brooklyn at 3am? I haven't. Why should I? I know that I would be putting myself in jeopardy. I simply dont go there.

I dont think this is an unsafe country. I live in a nice area of Santo Domingo. I walk the streets at night. I never fear for my safety and never have a problem. I have also never been the victum of a crime in this country. I have seen plenty of theives on the streets and beach of Sosua, I know they are there and I know that if you venture into the wrong areas of this country, you are putting yourself in danger. However, it is like this anywhere in the world you go, you simply identify the spots that are unsafe and avoid them. This limits your exposure to danger/problems.

I dont like guns. I cant imagine myself coming down on vacation here and driving around with a bunch of friends with shotguns. Not my idea of fun. I will probably never drive down some of those roads you mentioned. I dont need to. I dont want to.

Larry

 

[laurapasinifan]

hello larry. I hope you dont think i dont like the DR, I certainly do. Thats the double edged swword of speaking your mind, you get good and bad coming out, but open honestly will hurt less in the long run. I think riding around with a bunch of shotgun is way up on the FUN list on vacation!. The shotguns were for the sport of wingshooting. And they are cased while in transit, now the psitols are another story! ha ha ha.

You know in the northeast of the USA, epsecially near where I live, the odds of eventually hitting a deer with your automobile are huge if you live there long enough. Its a fact there are too many deer. But the people who have been lucky enough to not hit a deer, are not correct when they say, "hey I havent hit one, and I lived here XXX years, so it is unlikely that anyone else would either"........thats the same as some of you guys saying you feel safe in the little spot you have found for yourself. Because up to this point you have been lucky enough to avoid trouble doesnt make it ok to say to everyone else, its safe here there are no problems. I hope to each and everyone ehere that they are blessed with a trouble free life in the DR. I hope i can incure it from now on as well. But you know the odds are there. Live there long enough , drive down rte one enough times and the odds are likely to catch up with you. I think there are very few problems off in the back roads, with the exception of the areas VERY close to the hatian border. I think the trouble spots are rural areas surrounding the larger citys, outside Santiago, Santo Domingo, San pedro De Macoris, and San fransisco de Macoris, and towns similar to them in size , thats just my view and not scientific. we get out into the sticks there is so little traffic, the bad guys would go hungry for sure!.....life is great out there. I never felt like a tourist out there at all....

anyway the post is about why one person thinks life is better in one place over another.... and I cant say which is better, but i can disput things i read i dont agree with......hope to see you in december possibly larry.....bob

 

[AZB]

Bob you are still talking about a different DR that I know. You have been to many cities but that doesn't mean you know about the places. passing through doesn't count. I have passed through small kentucky towns and el paso, texas, but does that mean I know these towns well? No way. Bob it all depends on the company who is showing you around. If you drive around with barrio people than chances are, you will see barrios all over this island. You don't speak spanish so you are misising out on 90% on everything to begin with. You only see what you see and where people take you.
You mentioned about your girlfriend's father blowing up fire crackers to keep criminals away. This gives me the impression that he doesn't live in some decent place, maybe a dirt road campo off licey maybe? You mentioned buying them inverter, a water tank on the roof and then you were inquiring about enlisting your girlfriend in some english school etc etc. Seems to me you are supporting a family here. Not very different from what other tourists do when they find a girlfriend. So are you really that different from the other tourists who come here and do the same things? The first place you invited me to meet you in santiago was where? casino. Did you know decent folks in santiago don't want to be seen in casinos? You will never meet hillbilly there. We folks who live among the decent circle will not be seen in any casino, carwashes or passion/ casablanca (puta places). So if you frequent barrios, casinos and who knows where else, you will see a completely different DR than we do who live here. You must have seen plenty of tires burning and riots as you drive down licey road to your girlfriend's house. Yes, this is the road where all that happens. We never go that way unless we have to.
No BOB, don't get me wrong, I am sure we don't see this country with the same eyes. You go look for these things, guns, riots and criminals and you will find them in any country. I have no business going near these areas. The DR I know is not what John and you both see. My friends and my neighbors shop in supermercado nacional (american standard supermarket). they all drive late model cars, live in decent areas in housing complex that rivals american standard, they all study in good schools and wear decent clothes. they eat and drink is decent places and spend more money than many of your incoming tourists. This is the DR I know and this is where I belong.
Now the problem starts when people come here and mix in with poor barrio folks. the first problem they have to solves is financial issues for these folks, buy then inverter, water tank, fix the roof, pay for school, buy a TV, new fridge and give money on monthly basis. Dominicans think of these foreigners as suckers who fall for this trap. Now I know if you are 60 plus and want to date a 24 yrs old beauty, then the price is right. What I don't understand is when a good looking young guy doing the same routine. This is a shame.
Now if a guy like myself 42, bald, fat and reasonably ugly fellow can find a MD girlfriend who lives in a decent house with 2 cars and travels to USA on her own (25 yrs old), elegant and educated, then what is the problem with a 30 plus yrs old tall handsome elegant looking foreign male who is seen hand in hand with a barrio girls, supporting her family?
My friend in capital (american) speaks good spanish has a 25 yrs old dentist girlfriend from a very decent family in santiago. he is 44. She lives in a decent house, father drives a SUV and mother has a honda accord. She is in miami on her own and studying to take national boards there. This guy is fatter than me, has 2 daughters (from previous marriages) and yet he was able to find a decent professional careered girl. I am sure he doesn't see his father in law blowing up fire crackers to keep the criminals away. I am sure he doesn't see riots and shot guns fired in the air. I am sure he doesn't see his girlfriend buying 2 eggs and one onion from colmado to make dinner for him. The examples are endless.
It all depends on what type of DR you want to live in. You want barrio and poor folks, be my guest. There is room for you. You want to associate with decent folks and live like you would live in USA and yet enjoy the tranquility of an island life. Its all here.
back to original point. If you compare apples to apples DR wins hands down over american rat race stressfull lifestyle. Now please don't campare barrio folks with american living standard. You folks should be ashamed to be knowing so much about barrio dead end lifestyle in this island. You don't belong there, especially if you own 50 apartments in NY and live in 4 million dollar house. You can do much better than making friends with ghetto losers.
AZB

 

[laurapasinifan]

nothing I say is untruthfull. You are correct in that passing through doesnt mean you know a place. Funny I shop the same place you do for food. Decent people dont go to the casino?......hmmmmmm, thats strange. I can undertsand If you dont like to go to the discos that i have gone too. I dont really know what makes a barrio. But tread lightly when you think about dragging my girlfriend through the mud. I didnt pick where my girl lives. because,wether she nor her family rubs elbows with you while you drink, isnt the measure of a "good" citizen in my book. The area around her house is farm land mostly, is that low life in your book?... what does that have to do with someone being better off here than in america. Up till now i thought we were buddies, but taking cheap shots at my GF is low life in itself, and smacks of bitterness. I could care less where she lived, I dont pick girls by where they come from. She is far from what you think she is obviously. her parents and family dont NEED my help they are doing fine. Helping out by making life easier is no different than taking them to dinner in my book. Like helping your father in law build a new deck on the house. People who care about each other do those things. I havent bought an inverter, they have the same one you do. I just inquired about getting a larger one, Because guess what I SPEND time there myself too! You want to lump me in with the guys who come down and fall for a shankie in the resort, thats your option. It s just an ugly turn from what i thought about you up until now. Opinions dont have to be in line for people to get along, but start draggging someones loved one through the mud and you are asking for a dog fight.........bob

 

[AZB]

I appologize if I made it sound like dragging your girlfriend in the MUD. I actually thought she was a nice person. I am just bad with my choice of words.
All I am trying to say is that a guy with your intellects and abilities, not to mention good looks and resources, you could have been dating a girl from a much better area. A girl who is probably a lawyer, holds a good job at some company or someone who is from a better off family.
Oh rats, again I am sounding like I am putting down your girlfriend. This is not what I am trying to do. I hope someone can illustrate this in better words.
The problem with mingling with poor folks is that you get to see a distorted view of this country, thus gives you reasons to laught at dominican culture and their strange habbits. I personally think if I had your looks and your resources, I might have been dating a girl from ochoa family. This is my take on the issues.
have a nice day and please allow me the pleasure to show you around the DR I enjoy. Hope to see you soon.
AZB (still your buddy)

 

[Ricardo900]

I might have been dating a girl from ochoa family. This is my take on the issues.

I am a handsome young stud and who is in the ochoa family, I'll see you in January, hahaha.

 

[AnnaC]

AZB, Bob's girlfriend is beautiful and he's in love. Who cares if she doesn't drive an SUV. Do you?

There are "decent folk" among the poor and money doesn't make a person "decent folk".

 

[laurapasinifan]

ok AZB, I totally see your nature, you dont intend to be detrimental , but it comes out often. Its like the frog and the scorpion. the scorpion wanted a trip across the lake, and asked the frog for help. the frog figured he'd be same because the scorpion would'nt sting him while he was in a postion to drown while going across the lake. But sure enough half way across the scorpion stung the frog. Sure death and the frog asked, why did you do that, we will both die now...the scorpion said...."its my nature I cant help it"

it just comes out that way, right. No problem I have an open mind and would love to see any part of the DR life at least once, and will accept all offers if possible. Except for the guns you fit into the life style of my friends down there. They dont go out to the discos at all. they all drive brand new vehicles, live in 2 floor houses tiles to the max with AC, and gas water heaters, all the TV stations ect. They choose where they eat carefully when with their wives and children and are less bothered when its just us guys hunting.

anne thanks for the remarks on my GF, she certainly is one really fine woman.

Bob

 

[Snuffy]

Let me clear something up about people dreaming of going to USA. They are poor. They want to go to USA for the opportunity to make money. It is the same concept as when you take a job you don't necessarily like. You do it because you need the money. You want to improve conditions for your family so you keep the mundane job for 20 years. You have sacrificed for the money. They will do the same. Note that many return to live in DR with money.

Johne...you have taken my comments out of context. Read this thread again. I am saying that I believe you are safer here than in the USA when it comes to any kind of physical assault. These people want to get in your pockets and will steal from you...but they will avoid assault if at all possible. They will break into your home but will avoid confrontation if at all possible. Let us do a test...you walk through Brooklyn and mouth off to a group of teens. Then walk through Santo Domingo and do the same. In Brooklyn they will kick your bott. In Santo Domingo they will smile at you. Go to a club and shove some guy...here he will try to avoid the confrontation. In the USA he will knock your head off. Have you ever seen a fight here in a club. Have you ever seen a fight anywhere here? My personal experience is that I feel safer here in the DR. For me that is not an issue. My issue with this place is corruption, the filth, and the lack of common courtesy...to name a few. So you can see that I am not trying to paint a rosy picture of this place. I'm just saying I believe you are safer here than in the USA.