BREAKING NEWS from JUAN DOLIO!

[NALs]

Howmar, here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/library/crime/crime0405a.htm

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/10/02/loc_subcrime02.html

http://www2.jsonline.com/news/metro/nov04/271602.asp

And this:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/05/09/BAG8T6IJ8C1.DTL

http://www.masslive.com/news/republican/index.ssf?/news/stories/012705youthcrisis.html

http://www2.jsonline.com/news/wauk/feb06/1390941.asp

Stories like those above are become more prevailant and redundant which is indicative of what is going on, at least what peoples perceptions are of whatever its going on in their areas, in this case the Suburbs.

Back to topic, then I guess we should simply say the following and get this over with:

If you are thinking of visiting the DR, don't because your life is at stake.

If you were planning to move there, don't because your life is at stake.

If you live there, get out because your life is at stake.

Hopefully this will cause the collapse of the tourist industry, force the 200,000plus people employeed directly and indirectly by the tourist industry to loose their job. Yeup, that will solve the problem, let's scare the tourists away.

BTW, does Robert has any statistics on how many people visit this site with the intention of making up their minds whether they will visit the DR or not in the following months?

It would be interesting to see what threads like these, where even the slightest attempts to keep the interest of the potential tourist alive instead of scarying him or her away is constantly a battle which simply spills more things that could freighten anyone who wishes to vacation there. Just what the DR needs right now.

And, the sad part, most tourists will never even see or be part of any crime what-so-ever. Too bad they are being scared off.

In case anyone has not noticed, more jobs equals more opportunities for people to leave their illicit ways and become productive. One of the sectors of the economy that produces jobs is tourism and that industry is a self propelled industry based on the amount of tourists that visit the country. Scare the tourists away and guess what will happen to those jobs and to the crime rate?

While it's "nice" that there are mediums such as these where people can express their ideas and concerns, people must keep in mind that they also have a responsibility of supporting the country they live in while expressing whatever concern they may have.

If you planned to visit the DR, forget about it! Your money is better spent elsewhere! At least, that's the impression by this thread.

Balance the threads people, balance the threads!

-NALs

 

[HOWMAR]

Howmar, here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/library/crime/crime0405a.htm

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/10/02/loc_subcrime02.html

http://www2.jsonline.com/news/metro/nov04/271602.asp

And this:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/05/09/BAG8T6IJ8C1.DTL

http://www.masslive.com/news/republican/index.ssf?/news/stories/012705youthcrisis.html

http://www2.jsonline.com/news/wauk/feb06/1390941.asp

Stories like those above are become more prevailant and redundant which is indicative of what is going on, at least what peoples perceptions are of whatever its going on in their areas, in this case the Suburbs.

Back to topic, then I guess we should simply say the following and get this over with:

If you are thinking of visiting the DR, don't because your life is at stake.

If you were planning to move there, don't because your life is at stake.

If you live there, get out because your life is at stake.

Hopefully this will cause the collapse of the tourist industry, force the 200,000plus people employeed directly and indirectly by the tourist industry to loose their job. Yeup, that will solve the problem, let's scare the tourists away.

BTW, does Robert has any statistics on how many people visit this site with the intention of making up their minds whether they will visit the DR or not in the following months?

It would be interesting to see what threads like these, where even the slightest attempts to keep the interest of the potential tourist alive instead of scarying him or her away is constantly a battle which simply spills more things that could freighten anyone who wishes to vacation there. Just what the DR needs right now.

And, the sad part, most tourists will never even see or be part of any crime what-so-ever. Too bad they are being scared off.

In case anyone has not noticed, more jobs equals more opportunities for people to leave their illicit ways and become productive. One of the sectors of the economy that produces jobs is tourism and that industry is a self propelled industry based on the amount of tourists that visit the country. Scare the tourists away and guess what will happen to those jobs and to the crime rate?

While it's "nice" that there are mediums such as these where people can express their ideas and concerns, people must keep in mind that they also have a responsibility of supporting the country they live in while expressing whatever concern they may have.

If you planned to visit the DR, forget about it! Your money is better spent elsewhere! At least, that's the impression by this thread.

Balance the threads people, balance the threads!

-NALs

Again, read before you write.The first article you site begins:

Though it has declined from its peak in the early 1990s

It talks of crime rising from 1970-1990, then diminishing. Why not try looking at real data: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm You will see violent crime is down countrywide since the it's peak in the 1990.s, but is certainly still higher in the cities than the suburbs.

 

[NALs]

Again, read before you write.The first article you site begins:

It talks of crime rising from 1970-1990, then diminishing. Why not try looking at real data: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm You will see violent crime is down countrywide since the it's peak in the 1990.s, but is certainly still higher in the cities than the suburbs.

That same sentence in the first article ends like this:

"violent crime has become a far more common threat in most of the Washington suburbs than it was 20 years ago"

There is no denial crime has fallen in the 1990s, but the 1990s are gone, finish, no more.

It's now that matters and today there seems to be an increase in crime activity in suburbs, for this reason stories such as the one's I posted are popping up all over the country. Just read the newspapers, it does not takes much to see a story about increase of crime in suburbs.

But, this is not about American crime, it's about the DR.

My intention here, to balance this thread. Some people always have a problem with that, but I think its only fair to balance things in order to avoid creating a false sense of urgency on the part of potential visitors reading this thread, to cancel their trip to the DR which will most likely go as planned with them not being victims of any crime.

-NALs

 

[miguel]

Indeed!

I was trying to be sarcastic Miguel

I know you were and I was agreeing with your post 100%.

 

[Hillbilly]

You might be interested to note that "people" are commenting that the recent kidnapping of a businessman from Santiago by some gangsters from Santo Domingo that also included at least one cop, is somehow linked to the killing of Rafael. Apparently they are said to be the same gang, and that there are higherups that might be sweating right now. Nothing confirmed, just the rumors onthe streets..

Rest easy.

HB

 

[HOWMAR]

My intention here, to balance this thread. Some people always have a problem with that, but I think its only fair to balance things in order to avoid creating a false sense of urgency on the part of potential visitors reading this thread, to cancel their trip to the DR which will most likely go as planned with them not being victims of any crime.

-NALs

I realize what your intention is, but as usual, your attepmt to dazzle with totally unsubstantiated or related facts clouds your message. Trying to equate the rise in violent crime in the Dr with a supposed rise in the US is just ludicrous. Besides crime statistics not bearing out your point, the perception of the poeple also disputes it.
The point that should be made is that the crimes that are cited in the DR are not crimes of opportunity. They were crimes against specific people for specific motives. As theft wasn't the motive, that usually leaves a spouse or lover or a businesss associate as the most likely perpetrator. Surely these crimes should be of no concern to the tourist or any expat who minds his own business.

 

[macocael]

Well as to who is behind alot of the more violent crime, read today's pr?cis from DR1:

One cop booted out every two days
The National Police have averaged one dismissal every two days since General Bernardo Santana Paez took office. The most recent case was the discharge of Sandy Carvajal Montero for his involvement in the kidnapping of a businessman in Santiago last week. The same day as the kidnapping, the District Attorney for Santiago announced charges against Jose Juan Francisco and Antonio Magarin for the shooting of a woman and her niece during public protests a few weeks ago. According to Diario Libre, police officers' involvement in criminal acts has become a daily reality. A quick recount of published data shows that over the past 90 days thirty-six members of the police force have been dismissed and placed before the justice system. Robberies, kidnappings and assaults are the most common criminal acts associated with these people. Daysi Liriano, the officer in charge of the Police Internal Affairs Department, told Diario Libre reporters that the police have undertaken a program to clean up the department.

I'd say they pose a worse threat than the deportees!

 

[Chris]

I know that there are explanations for attitude but it's difficult to accept that the knife is the culprit and not the one who uses it....

m'frog

A great way of expressing it. I see you're gold now! congrats!

 

[Malibook]

Check your decimal points Malibook!!!

1.5 billion is 1500 million divided by (let's round up for the 'illegals') 10 million.

Take it easy MommC.:ermm:
1500 divided by 10 does not equal 1,300,000.
It's not my fault that you are off by a factor of 8,666.67.

 

[MommC]

Update.........from behind the scenes.....

a peaceful (as far as I have been told) demonstration took place in JD today.

All the shops were closed and the local community (Dominican and expat) staged a walk through the town in protest of recent happenings and lack of competent policing in the area.

Three persons have been detained in the shooting death of Rafael Paniriti. Two males and one female (alleged prostitute). It is alleged that they werre paid to carry out the 'hit'. What is not known yet is who paid them.

In other news, another body of an Italian expat (44yrs old) has been discovered in the Villas del Mar section of Juan Dolio. He was hung (whether self inflicted or by another person is not yet known).

What is also being bandied about is how recent events took place shortly AFTER most of the 'snowbirds' had flown home. Had the events taken place one week earlier most of us would have still been there as we almost all left Easter week, either just before or just after the holiday.

Another supposition is that the perpetrators were the same group that had robbed Il Cappuchino, Cafe Real, a parador amongst other locales just a few weeks ago.

Regardless of what NALS thinks I am NOT trying to be an alarmist!

If I was I would have been reporting more on the various things that have been happening in the area over the past 4-5 yrs, which I haven't so as not to un-necessarily alarm visitors.

If you read through my postings and my blog, especially this last winter, you will find that most of them relate to locating accomodation in the area or the different things to see and do on the island.

I could have been posting about the house invasions, resort hold-ups,house robberies, armed robberies, car and bus jackings, muggings, beatings, purse and jewellry snatchings that have taken place.

But I didn't - so if you want to know more PM me.

Things ARE getting desperate and you can blame the cause on any of the things mentioned by others in this thread, however that will not change the reality of the situation.

The police MUST be MADE to uphold and ENFORCE the law. The justice system MUST become un corrupted and functioning. The military MUST have their power curtailed,the drug lords MUST be contained and controlled and organized crime MUST be combatted.

If not the situation will only deteriate more than it already has.

 

[juancarlos]

Another Italian citizen and his Dominican wife were murdered in Monte Plata. They say robbery was not the motive. This according to List?n Diario:

http://www.listindiario.com.do/cuerpos/republica/rep1e.htm

 

[MommC]

Correction......

One person dead and two WOMEN in custody ( all Dominican), alleged assassins of Rafael Panariti.

 

[MommC]

Re: my last post on page 9.....

42 (44?) yr. old Giovanni Giacalone was found hanged in the Villas del Mar section of Juan Dolio.

His wife (Dominican???) had 'bite' (???) marks on her shoulder. (Unknown if she is alive or not- will update when more info available!)

 

[juancarlos]

Is there someone going after Italians there? That's what it seems with all those Italians murdered almost at the same time. It's weird, bizarre. Particularly since, as reported, their money and other valuables were not taken.

 

[MrMike]

It has been frequently theorized that more than a few of the Italian ex-pats in the DR are hiding out from former organized crime connections, so it makes some sense that some of them would be "found" occasionally by former "associates" who may be unhappy about business they may have left unfinished in another life.

Of course, that's if you buy into the Hollywood version of what it means to be Italian.

I frankly have no idea.

 

[NALs]

It has been frequently theorized that more than a few of the Italian ex-pats in the DR are hiding out from former organized crime connections, so it makes some sense that some of them would be "found" occasionally by former "associates" who may be unhappy about business they may have left unfinished in another life.

Shhh, you don't want to sound like those "Dominicans" who only blame outsiders for crime.

I mean, everybody knows in the DR foreigners and deportees never comit a crime. They are all saints.

Shhh.. :cheeky:

-NALs

Edited to add: I am not saying anything in particular. Simply being sarcastic.

 

[Chris]

....I am not saying anything in particular....

We've noticed. :laugh: :laugh:

 

[MommC]

As was stated before.....Rafael was not being 'sought'

by anyone from 'the old country'. Nor was he involved in any 'illegal' endeavour.
He was involved in the cambio business which appears to be a very 'controlled' business in the DR. He had been warned by one of the 'controllers' to 'get out of business' which he didn't 'obey'.

He's not the first expat in Juan Dolio to be warned off the cambio business and it is also known of Dominicans who were in the business who have been 'forced' out.

I can't say about the other two because I don't know either of them altho' I suspect these three deaths and maybe the kidnapping in Santiago may be related to "investments" made with a certain financiere.

Certainly I will be back in the fall (altho' I'll definitely have my ear to the ground and an extra set of eyes in the back of my head!)

 

[NALs]

I am in the beginning stages of researching moving to the DR and came across this forum. Is the crime as bad as you all make it out to be? I live in a suburb of Tampa, FL and hear of crime all the time, but I don't live in fear. It sounds like, being a single woman, I would not be safe walking down the street.

Please let me know if I should abandon my plan to move.

Great! Just what I feared and the sad part:

If you are worried, imagine how many others who do not have the guts to post on DR1 are as well! For every one person who posts something, there must be tens, if not hundreds more who think the same but don't post!

From the first post I made on this thread, it was meant to bring into the realization that "stuff" happens anywhere, even in paradise. However, and this is a big however, just because "stuff" happened near so and so in the DR does not means that newbies need to change their plans in anyway.

Like I said before, MOST people only hear about crime happening, but they are not victims of crime. Oh sure, petty stuff happens all the time everywhere, but the really big types of crimes, nah.

One thing I will suggest, but I guess you did this when you decided to move where ever in Tampa you currently live, is to do your research of the neighborhood you intend to move into.

-NALs

BTW: Take any given thread on DR1 and accept the info for half it's worth. People on this board have a tendency of not balancing the overall tone in any given thread, and when someone tries to balance them, they begin to debate with that person. I can attest to that!

 

[Chris]

NALs, all of those 100's of people will then also read my post, and MrMike's post, just after the question from the poster christyhughes.

The fact that crime happens everywhere, does not detract from the fact that we think we are seeing more of it here and that we are concerned.

You did not try to balance the thread, you tried to minimise the seriousness of the issue. And now you're crying wolf -- Whaaa Whaa Mommy, I told them so! Aarch, I give up.

christyhughes as a poster received two good answers and will probably receive more good answers.

Christyhughes, please feel free to open a new thread and ask your questions there, so that we do not hijack this one.