Dominicans and blacks

[jsizemore]

how did this thread turn from culture to race

Guys. I am multi ethnic. Part white/ part Creet Indian/ part Lanape Indian/ part Cherokee Indian and possible melungeun. My grandfather and some of the elders in my family look Native American but I could fit in at a skinhead rally with my southern accent. Shaved head (read Military and going bald) and blue eyes and pail skin.
I personally have never been discriminated against because of where I am from. I have witnessed friends of mine that were African and of mixed decent being harassed by police once in 1990 in South Western Virginia because a bunch of us 20 something single people decided to have a fish fry basket ball tournament in a field. The local cops showed up in a patty wagon and said they had reports of possible rioting because there were a large group of whit people and a large group of black people making noise and carrying on.
Basically the powers that be did not want us as a group to mingle. Why I am saying that was the reason? Because the chief of police told me himself that was what it was and advised as an out of Towner not to make problems.
We will not change the trouble with out acknowledging them. The future will not be better though if we live in the past. When someone attacks the crackers of the world they set back race relations as far as David Duke does. Bottom line if you lose your cool you loses the fight. Stay calm, stay focused and fight the good fight.
John

 

[El Moreno]

Oye gente, escuchame segunda,

If you do not look afro american.Meaning, if you do not have the stereotypical, physical attributes, you are not black in the eyes of Americans. Therefore, if you are a Dominican who grew up with the island concept of race, then one might say you are mistakened for an afro american person, because you have stereo typical afro american features.

Furthermore, I can tell most Dominicans from afro americans by looking at them. It all has to do with attitude, and body language. That is where one big difference between afro americans and Dominicans come in.

Also, How many people here are Dominican? If you are Dominican, please let me know. I'm just curious.

 

[sancochojoe]

What is "Afro American" features.

If you ask me, there is no such thing.
I remember when my wife thought that she could pick out
a Dominican in the crowd in the states.......NOT
Every person she picked out was an "African American"

The point is you cant. Behavior may give it away, and of course when you open your mouth.

But look

Black is black
white is white
asian is aian
Middle Eastern is Middle eastern
Indian is Indian

Most people will have those traits and given those traits
you will know what REGION of the world there ancestors came
from. Now where they are from now, we can thank Slavery and Modern transportation.

Now who they are after "Physical Description"
is all about Geographic and Cultural behavior.

For the most part, you will find it difficult picking out
where a "black" person (and I mean by color including lightskin and darkskin) is from by country, especially in the Western Hemesphere in countries that had a large number of slaves.

 

[El Moreno]

If you do not knoww the stereotypes for black traits then we should just drop the statement.

If you have noticed, i also said that i am able to distinguish other Dominicans by their looks, and their attitudes. to more clearer, the things they do and say clear?

 

[El Moreno]

Have you noticed that an afro american looks different in bone structure as well as facial characteristics, then that of black africans?

the same occurs manytimes with Dominicans and afro americans

this is because black africans do not have the mixtures like black americans. Dark skin Dominicans do not have the same mixtures as many black americans. While I have Taino and spanish mixtures, another black person may have irish and russian mixtures or maybe mayan and irish mixtures. either way each indigenous tribe has its own genes and traits. Whether they ar domininant or recessive.

 

[Houman]

Jews in america are no longer oppressed because of who they are.--El Moreno


Oh no? And why is that? It's because they dont wallow and lament. They are too busy making things work for them. They dont sit around screaming "racism" and looking for acceptance or sympathy or what have you. They make it a point of rallying together and pushing ahead.

Larry (by the way, I am not a Jew, I am just calling it as I see it)

edited to add: When I was in high school, I worked in a supermarket. It was owned by a Jew who was in a concentration camp when he was a child. He always wore long sleeves because he had a serial number burned into his forearm. His entire family died in the camp. He came to the USA all alone as a teenager and now owns a string of supermarkets. I never heard him blaming not being able to get ahead on the fact that he was Jewish and his family had been slaughtered. He didnt look for an excuse to point fingers. He took control over his own life.

Take from that what you will.

Larry, it seems as if you are suggesting that all native black Americans are "wallowing and lamenting". Well, I purposefully joined this forum to let you know that such isn't the case. Many, many, many black Americans ARE NOT wallowing and lamenting. Many are "busy making things work for them" too. Your comment is very cynical because it suggests that every Jew has gotten over the Holocaust. I ask you, Do you know every Jewish person in the world? No. And you certainly do not know every native black American.

And wallowing and lamenting occurs in every community. Some Jews "wallow and lament". Some Arabs "wallow and lament". Some Latinos "wallow and lament". Some Asians "wallow and lament". etc.etc. INDIVIDUALS must choose to empower themselves. Not every Jew, Arab, Latino, African, Asian, Indian, mulatto etc. feels empowered.

Furthermore, if native blacks were only "wallowing and lamenting", black Americans wouldn't have ever gained the right to vote, to sit in front of the bus, to attend flagship universities, to own homes in certain urban and suburban neighborhoods, to get elected to office, to work at certain corporations, obtain certain jobs, etc. etc.

It burns me up when selfish, ill-informed people, particularly black immigrants, suggest that native black Americans have not forged ahead, rallied together for progress, and only scream "racism".

If it were not for native blacks, immigrant blacks (of any hue, nationality, or personal identity) would not be enjoying the right to vote, sitting in front of the bus, attending flagship universities, benefiting from Affirmative Action, owning homes in certain urban and suburban neighborhoods, getting elected to office, working at certain corporations or obtaining certain jobs etc.

Furthermore, some of this country's largest minority-owned banks and businesses are owned by native black Americans. And some of this country's most prestigious schools (Howard, Spelman, Morehouse, Hampton, Tuskegee) are black.

Where else in the world do such black institutions exist outside of Africa? And.... they could not have been created with "wallowing and lamenting".

Historically, native black Americans have had the strength and fortitude to challenge the American "white status quo" almost since the first African slave landed in Jamestown, Virginia in 1619. This is not to be confused with "wallowing and lamenting", but if you deem it as such, that's your choice. Blacks in the Caribbean and Latin America, except Afro-Cubans and Haitians, have not challenged the "white status quo" as often.

Regardless, if that were the case native black Americans wouldn't have advanced further than oppressed blacks - many who are still trying to learn how to identify themselves for the most part - in other Euro-dominated nations.

Note: I am an African-American male living in Houston, Texas who knows several Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, Virgin Islanders, and West Indians.

 

[sancochojoe]

Have you noticed that an afro american looks different in bone structure as well as facial characteristics, then that of black africans?

I beleive you think there is this Standard look. There is a standard look by race (black, white, asian, indian) but thats where we differ. Sancochojoe does not use borders of countries to determine what someone looks like. The continent of Afrika is so vast, there is no standard look of Afrikans, but there are "Negroid" features. You have Sub Suhera, Western Afrika, Southern, etc. There is not one look.
If you look at many Ethiopeans for example which is a large community in the DC Metro Area in which I live, they could pass for many Dominicans.

"To me" Europeans have similar physical qualities due to the region of the globe including Spain. Indios have certain qualities and so do people from the Continent of Afrika. Given those mixes that many people from the Caribbean, US and South America are known to have. To say he looks Dominican and She looks Afrikan American and he looks Jamaican just does not work form me. I could give a good guess but I guess wrong more than right.

I choose to identify people by region more than borders of countries. True there are some Dominicans that have the Taino features, I would even say that. They have the Native Indian features common in the western Hemisphere but I do not see much.

I had a party two weekends ago at my home. We had about 40 Dominicans that came over, and I stopped counting after that. But I would say the the large majority, to me, would pass more as Afrikan Americans (if you use that stereotypical look) Some would pass for what I would say are Puerto Rican and maybe 2 or 3 had distinquishable Indian features and then due to some mixed with White American and Dominican they could pass for either Italian or lightskin Afrikcan American having the features more dominant of the White parent.

Mind you this is coming from Sancochos eyes.

 

[Criss Colon]

There really hasn't been much progress in the last 100 years,has there?

Hard to believe that so many are still hung up on the physical features of others!

The one thing I have learned while living in the DR is to appreciate the beauty of all colors/features.When I first arrived,after travelling the World,I had found women of all races/colors to be beautiful,but I had yet to see the beauty in a "Pure Black"(Whatever that is) face.I met a girl from Villa Altagracia,she litterally was, "As Black As Coal"! Round head,and short "Kinky" hair.She was the baby sitter for a young friend of mine.As time went on,I began to see her simple,natural beauty.
That was 15 years ago! Looks like the rest of the Western World is catching on.Some of the runway models,and "Revlon" cosmetic models no longer are the "Holly Berry" ,"White" version of a "Black Woman",but an "African,African Woman",with all her naural beauty!

If some of you knew how out dated and just plain ridiculous your posrs are,I doubt you would post them.Still I guess even those posts serve the purpose of reminding us that there are still "Miles To Go Before We Rest"!!!

Cris Colon

 

[sancochojoe]

Colon,

It's just general conversation. Your trying to read between the lines when there is nothing there.

nobody is debating what color is beutiful or not. The discussion is on identification and general ethnic history.

Its just a harmless debate. Please don't turn it into a blood bath.

 

[El Moreno]

Sancocho,

Are you Domincan?

any way , after hearing what you have just said i do agrre with everything you have said. I think that the reason i can pick out Dominicans is because i look at them and then i see the things they do and i i usually guess that they are dominican . i am right most of the time. However, thats just me. and i hang with alot of Dominicans. However, thats not a significant amount. Obviously you see the dominicans that i dont see.

Criss Colon,
I Dont like how describe people's skin color. I find it to be rather discurtis and rude. First of all, in schol they should have taight you that , people arent as "black" as anything. People are medium skin tone, brown skin, light skin and dark skin. not black.

 

[Larry]

Quote:
People are medium skin tone, brown skin, light skin and dark skin. not black.--El Moreno



So, I am not white then? OK, what am I? Light skinned? Glad you corrected us on that one.

So what were the "dark skin" marchers referring to when they said "say it loud, I'm BLACK and I am proud"? Were they wrong in calling themselves black?

Aren't we being a little rediculous?

Larry

 

[ERICKXSON]

This is one ridiculous Thread, DOMINICAN PEOPLE LOOKS LIKE AFRICAN AMERICAN? ARE GUYS FOR REAL? Dominicans come in all shapes and Colors.

Perhaps you didn't know that!

 

[El Moreno]

Erickson, Thank you. Dominicans come in all shapes, sizes , and skin tones.

Larry, Perhaps you havent figured it out, but im not afro american. Nor am I those marchers. Therefore, what i have stated, is my opinion and my beliefs. Describing someones characteristics or skin as the color of coal is disrespctful and insulting. Ahora, si tu quieres hablar conmigo, deja de hablar esa vaina. No le aguantare la vaina.

I f you want to call black people black as coal entonce, hagalo. But si tu me lo ha llamado, va a ser una pelea.

Basically, Dont talk about people in such a way that if they were present you would speak to them. Oye, would you call my grandmother a woman with skin as black as coal, to her face?, I hope not . Espero que aprendas este concepto.
peace.

 

[El Moreno]

Larry, furthermore, the people marching were talking about more than their skin color. They were talking about their culture, their pride and who they were. As I said earlier, black as in the race is ok. Saying black americans is ok. or saying black africans is fine. However, i do not think its acceptiple to describe how black someone is, when talking about color.

 

[Keith R]

Erickson, Thank you. Dominicans come in all shapes, sizes , and skin tones.

Larry, Perhaps you havent figured it out, but im not afro american. Nor am I those marchers. Therefore, what i have stated, is my opinion and my beliefs. Describing someones characteristics or skin as the color of coal is disrespctful and insulting. Ahora, si tu quieres hablar conmigo, deja de hablar esa vaina. No le aguantare la vaina.

I f you want to call black people black as coal entonce, hagalo. But si tu me lo ha llamado, va a ser una pelea.

Basically, Dont talk about people in such a way that if they were present you would speak to them. Oye, would you call my grandmother a woman with skin as black as coal, to her face?, I hope not . Espero que aprendas este concepto.
peace.

Moreno, maybe I missed it or it was deleted by Rob or the moderator, but I don't see a post by Larry with the "black as coal" remark. CC said it in his post above, but not Larry.

 

[El Moreno]

Yes CC made the statement, However, Larry didnt understand what i was trying to say. i was explaining to Larry why I find it better to descibe people as brown skin, or light skin etc. as oppose to describing how black someone is. I am not saying that Larry made the statement. Originaling with the post before the one you read, i was staing to CC that i found it offensive to describe a persons skin as black as coal.

 

[carl ericson70]

Larry, furthermore, the people marching were talking about more than their skin color. They were talking about their culture, their pride and who they were. As I said earlier, black as in the race is ok. Saying black americans is ok. or saying black africans is fine. However, i do not think its acceptiple to describe how black someone is, when talking about color.

Interesting perspective!I haven't given it much thought in the past,but I think that you may have a point.Whites do have this thing about comparing the skin tones of people of african descent to "coal,mahogany,ebony"and in porn "chocolate".Yet we don't go around refering to each other as"vanila"or pink/red(when tanned),haha!

Some of the above has to do with the fact that whites have historically thought of blacks as occupying the other end of the racial spectrum.Not just physically,but mentally & spiritually as well.In short,our polar opposites etc..So....when you look at it,whites probably didn't even start thinking of themselves as"white"until they started interacting with blacks.I guess vice-verse.

Carl E

 

[carl ericson70]

Sancochojoe

"I had a party two weekends ago at my home. We had about 40 Dominicans that came over, and I stopped counting after that. But I would say the the large majority, to me, would pass more as Afrikan Americans (if you use that stereotypical look) Some would pass for what I would say are Puerto Rican and maybe 2 or 3 had distinquishable Indian features and then due to some mixed with White American and Dominican they could pass for either Italian or lightskin Afrikcan American having the features more dominant of the White parent. "

You know,I get the exact same interpretation when in the DR or socializing with dominicans here in the U.S.There's no exact science in knowing who's a dominican and who isn't.Some of them look black,some white and some mixed.One thing that i've observed though is that dominicans are usually somewhat shorter than americans.

Carl E.

 

[carl ericson70]

Sancochojoe

Colon,

It's just general conversation. Your trying to read between the lines when there is nothing there.

nobody is debating what color is beutiful or not. The discussion is on identification and general ethnic history.

Its just a harmless debate. Please don't turn it into a blood bath.

Lol! Glad to hear that,because I sware,as a casual observer & participant of this topic & similar ones,I must say that I usually come away feeling like I'm incapable of"reading between the lines".Kinda like there is something that everyone else knows that I don't.

Never the less,it all provides much food-for-thought for me,at this point.As I will some day be a father to mixed race children and dealing with some of these issues.At least I won't be totally in the dark!

Carl E.

 

[Criss Colon]

Talk about the "POT" calling the "Kettle" MORENO!

"Moreno" it is ludicrous for you to take your "Phony" offense for my using the expression,"Black as Coal"! Look at your "apodo","Moreno".Dominicans have lots of "Nick-Names" that are based on "color"! "Moreno","More","Rubio"(Which I HATE to be called,but don't make a "Federal Case" about),"Blanco","Negra,y Negro"!
So stop making a "Show" about being called "Black" you should see what you are called when you leave the room!!! Cris Colon

"I'm WHITE,and proud of it!"

I NEVER tell people that I am a "High Yellow",or an "Indio Claro" to hide my racial history!

It makes me sad when "Dark Complected" white people,like Italians,Greeks,and Pakistanis,try to pass themselves off as "Light Skinned" BLACK people! We Whites need to "Celebrate" or White Roots! Never be ashamed to be WHITE!!! Cris Colon

(Sounds as STUPID as your |LOGIC" doesn't it????????)
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Cris Colon,"WHITE" to the bone!!!!!!!!!! And PROUD OF IT!!!!