- Thread starter Chip
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Elitism, what a shame
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Maybe buying a Harley might help? But seriously this is a difficult time for your young daughter. I am not going to attempt at giving you a solution, but I can say that you should persevere in instructing your child that those attitudes are detrimental to the formation of a healthy mind. The thing about fitting in I greatly dislike, but again for an adult to maneuver around that is easier than a young child.
Seconded. I always think it is easier to build a child than to repair an adult............as we learn daily from posts on this board.
I'm with Chiri on this. PLEASE do not tar us all with the same brush, some of us can actually think outside the box & be quite pleasant to talk to/communicate with.
I think Chip has a greater knowledge about integrating with Dominicans than many other posters on this thread - even on this 'friendly' board of DR1! His morals are higher than most, his understanding of the culture far better than most giving him advice & his ability to get on with Dominicans would leave certain people giving advice here with more than EGG on their faces.
Chip, you have chosen a difficult road for both yourself & that of your daughter BUT IT IS THE RIGHT ROAD for you. Please continue to follow your heart, instruct your daughter in the correct way of behaving against elitism & racism & take small steps at educating those who see differently to you. Contrary to what another poster said, I believe that NOW is the best age to educate - from an early age. Help to change the indoctrination of children into a racist/elitist being at this stage of learning & it will be easier for them to accept others as PEOPLE (rather than poor unfortunates without a 'yeepeta' to their name :ermm:
irate later on in life. Jings, .......... did someone ACTUALLY suggest you change your daughter's school & send her to a Public school??? Makes it seem as though you made the decision about her schooling as being what is best for YOU rather than what you thought best for your daughter doesn't it? :chinese: :ermm:
IF you want some ideas about things you can do to ease the situation (I didn't see you asking for that in your post even though many have given their views on what you should do!!) then feel free to PM or e-mail where we can exchange thoughts without a load of rhetoric!! ~ Grahame.
Some thoughts
1) I think that showing up at school on the back of your father's motorconcho would be very "cool" here in the U.S. and perhaps the kids in DR should be taught this lesson. Yeah, we have the big car at home, but how common is that? We really prefer the bike.
2) The maid feeding the child could be more of -"she's a baby" than discrimination. What child in ANY country would want their mother, maid, father, coming to school with their lunch??
3) Chip--I seem to recall some time back you posted the question of education/raising your child in the DR. Is this part of the problem you had when you posted?
4) I'm not going to discuss the "clothes" issue as even I change my whole style when I am in the DR. Here I wear shorts 8 months of the year. In the DR -never. Don't even pack them in my bag except for golf. Just feel very out of place in public with them.
john
1) I think that showing up at school on the back of your father's motorconcho would be very "cool" here in the U.S. and perhaps the kids in DR should be taught this lesson. Yeah, we have the big car at home, but how common is that? We really prefer the bike.
2) The maid feeding the child could be more of -"she's a baby" than discrimination. What child in ANY country would want their mother, maid, father, coming to school with their lunch??
3) Chip--I seem to recall some time back you posted the question of education/raising your child in the DR. Is this part of the problem you had when you posted?
4) I'm not going to discuss the "clothes" issue as even I change my whole style when I am in the DR. Here I wear shorts 8 months of the year. In the DR -never. Don't even pack them in my bag except for golf. Just feel very out of place in public with them.
john
johne
I had posted about schools sometime back but wasn't aware of the problem at that time. As far as my clothes go, I usually wear jeans and a t shirt and a baseball cap.
Grahame
I agree with you that I need to continue to teach my daughter the values that I believe in.
Also, I realize this will be just one of the many challenges we will have in raising our 6 year old daughter, wherever we might be. I was made fun of as a child at times because I was small and even more so when I entered public high school. Instead of damaging me, it taught me to learn to value people by their character and not other physical "traits" that some may fine superior or inferior.
Thanks for all of the opinions, especially my good friend AZB - btw I don't take my daughter to school in "wifebeater" shirts, oh brother. As far as my spanish goes, at least they can understand me, hahah me make jokey.
I had posted about schools sometime back but wasn't aware of the problem at that time. As far as my clothes go, I usually wear jeans and a t shirt and a baseball cap.
Grahame
I agree with you that I need to continue to teach my daughter the values that I believe in.
Also, I realize this will be just one of the many challenges we will have in raising our 6 year old daughter, wherever we might be. I was made fun of as a child at times because I was small and even more so when I entered public high school. Instead of damaging me, it taught me to learn to value people by their character and not other physical "traits" that some may fine superior or inferior.
Thanks for all of the opinions, especially my good friend AZB - btw I don't take my daughter to school in "wifebeater" shirts, oh brother. As far as my spanish goes, at least they can understand me, hahah me make jokey.
Chip,
In my simple and honest opinion, I think that AZB's analysis simply much sums up what is required and If I were you, I would make changes.....immediately.
When we go to another country, I think that it is important to understand the culture and try to meet them at a comfortable place. One should not compromise what is right but at the same time, things like dressing well and putting a good foot forward are worldly standards and should be emulated. This seems to be a school for the elites so the issue here is more than just for a child attending school.
I would expect that your wife should have seen this coming and maybe you need to discuss with her. There is nothing wrong with re-arranging the role of the maid, at least temporarily to take care of some situation. Your child will still pick up her values from you but she is still at the age where she needs to be supported on certain things.
Even the good book (aka the Bible) teaches us that there will be those situations where one needs to use the wisdom of this world to achieve a good purpose....even to conquer the world.
Let us face it, when we meet someone for the first time, the thing that creates the most impression is appearance.
You might care less what people think of you (which is okay) but remember that everything you are doing is for your child.
Sholly
As one of the Brits who thinks outside the box I have a suggestion. How about walking to school with her? Half a mile isn't much, and you'd be doing her, yourself and the environment a world of good. Also, it's real quality time, in my experience.
I have a suggestion. How about walking to school with her? Half a mile isn't much, and you'd be doing her, yourself and the environment a world of good. Also, it's real quality time, in my experience.As one of the Brits who thinks outside the box
The only problems I see with that is that it seems a lot to have my daughter walk and that my wife never can seem to get our daughter ready on time. This is one of the major reasons we came back to the DR, because my wife just couldn't adapt to american ways of being on time - the problems with that back home arenumerous.
As far as getting my wife to get her ready sooner, I think I'd have better luck walking to the moon.
I see people like you everyday. you know no one here except the chopo domincians who made quick money. Care to tell me where you had lived and what sort of business you did in DR? People like you come out as experts on all social circles of DR yet in real life, guys like you are totally opposite.
I know expats who are living here for 15 yrs and still don't speak spanish or speak at motoconcho level at best and date borderline hookers or barrio trash.
You are telling me that you are any different? I don't think so.
AZB
S
sokitoumi
Guest
all teenagers are embarressed by almost everything....i used to make my mother drop me off round the corner where no one could see....on shopping trips id be about half a mile behind pretending i didnt know her
Chip, why don't YOU get your daughter ready for school in the morning so there is time for a slow, enjoyable walk. My mom wasn't a morning person, so my dad made breakfast and got us out the door on time. Mom was always there after school to help with homework and other after school stuff.
If you rely on mom to get her ready, and don't help out, you are teaching her that chauvenism is ok, and isn't that a bit of elitist mentality as well?
If you rely on mom to get her ready, and don't help out, you are teaching her that chauvenism is ok, and isn't that a bit of elitist mentality as well?
Oh brother, here is the stuff I do:
1. Run a business in the US from here in the DR.
2. Pay all of the bills, incl. a US1200 house payment
3. Do 90% of the grocery shopping.
4. Do 90% percent of the errands.
5. Take my daughter and pick her up from school every day.
6. Take my daughter's lunch to her every day and sit with her usually a half hour until she finishes.
7. Help my daughter with the English part of homework.
Enough? I think my wife certainly has less to do than me - except watch telenovelas, next!
Aftab
Also, maybe I talk poorly in Spanish, but then again I learned it when I was 34.
I don't "hang" with motoconchos, not that it is bad, just that I have learned that it will be difficult for many Dominicans who are mostly poor to feel comfortable around me and maybe not look at me as some type of business venture vis a vis, their "Don".
I have two good friends here, one is Ecuadorian and a graphics designer with a business degree and his own business and the other is a maestro of construction. These guys are as good as any friends of mine back in the States, incl my brothers.
I have met people at the golf course but as of yet have not got together with any of them after the game. I do have a neighbor who is in the Airforce here yet works as a surgeon at the Clinica Corominias. The only reason we haven't got together to down a few cold ones is his hectic schedule. He also speaks fluent English and taught at a University in Tennessee. Oh yeah, this guy is as grounded as they come - he was helping me calm down some locals who wanted to fight with some of our Haitian neighbors. He even wants to introduce me to some of his friends that have engineering businesses and I plan on taking him up on the offer at some point.
I am sure I can act "accordingly" at get togethers as I can be quite entertaining. I have learned that some here won't appreciate my self deprecating sense of humor, but hey I'm a humble guy. Nonetheless, I am very adaptable and knowledgeable on many topics so I'm sure I can "fit in" when I need be. However, I'm very choosy about making "good" friends and would probably not pursue a friendship with someone who is so wrapped up in material things or other such frivolous things, but more than likely these type of guys see that I am a person of principal, no matter how much I ham it up and probably don't want me for a real friend either. Hey, no problem, this is a big world - we got room for all types.
Also, maybe I talk poorly in Spanish, but then again I learned it when I was 34.
I don't "hang" with motoconchos, not that it is bad, just that I have learned that it will be difficult for many Dominicans who are mostly poor to feel comfortable around me and maybe not look at me as some type of business venture vis a vis, their "Don".
I have two good friends here, one is Ecuadorian and a graphics designer with a business degree and his own business and the other is a maestro of construction. These guys are as good as any friends of mine back in the States, incl my brothers.
I have met people at the golf course but as of yet have not got together with any of them after the game. I do have a neighbor who is in the Airforce here yet works as a surgeon at the Clinica Corominias. The only reason we haven't got together to down a few cold ones is his hectic schedule. He also speaks fluent English and taught at a University in Tennessee. Oh yeah, this guy is as grounded as they come - he was helping me calm down some locals who wanted to fight with some of our Haitian neighbors. He even wants to introduce me to some of his friends that have engineering businesses and I plan on taking him up on the offer at some point.
I am sure I can act "accordingly" at get togethers as I can be quite entertaining. I have learned that some here won't appreciate my self deprecating sense of humor, but hey I'm a humble guy. Nonetheless, I am very adaptable and knowledgeable on many topics so I'm sure I can "fit in" when I need be. However, I'm very choosy about making "good" friends and would probably not pursue a friendship with someone who is so wrapped up in material things or other such frivolous things, but more than likely these type of guys see that I am a person of principal, no matter how much I ham it up and probably don't want me for a real friend either. Hey, no problem, this is a big world - we got room for all types.
And thus...
...twas fired the shot heard 'round the world (or at least in Santiago).
I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out....
...twas fired the shot heard 'round the world (or at least in Santiago).
I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out....
I am not talking about knowledge from CNN and fox news. I had a chat with you and I had noticed that you didn't even know the very basics of what is going on in US media. By the way, I did check out your links on debunking the loose change movie and then I actually saw a video debate between the 2 parties. I had a good laugh. If you were sold to these debunked theories then I don't see how you could be a engineer and not see what is so obvious.
Anyway, about your spanish: all I have to say is this. If your daughter spoke english as well as you speak spanish, I think you would be ashamed. Its just you have no clue how proper spanish is spoken. I think you don't even know what I am talking about or if you are aware of how you speak.
I may not be a spanish language professor but I do know the difference when I hear both languages. Your language is best understood by maids, motoconchos and gomeros. The rest of the educated dominicans just show mercy at you by saying "you speak like a cibaeno...". This means, you speak like an uneducated campo folks.
I have no doubt you are a nice guy and very generous to your friends. Its just I think you are misinformed about dominican culture and the dominican language.
Remember our conversation in the steak restaurant. I couldn't believe what you believed about dominican culture, the language and the customs. But then again, I think we live in different countries.
have a nice day.
AZB
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