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First Trip - Spoiled by Street Sellers
I know chiming in again is a bad idea, but it seems I never learn my lesson...
Maybe we should all just take a deep breath and read the original post again. Pay special attention to the following:
He's a first-time visitor
He spent most of his days outside the hotel seeing as much of the north of the island as possible
He accepts that the vendors are trying to make a living
He says no and walks away but in many cases they actually grab him
He was accosted not only on the street and beach but also in restaurants and bars (which, by the way means he actually goes into local restaurants and bars)
He was even stopped in his taxi
He was told beforehand that the vendors were pushy but gave the DR a chance anyways.
He's not coming back
Seriously, do you guys honestly not see a problem here?
I can only hope that most of you are just having fun being contrary, because the alternative is spooky...
Maybe we should all just take a deep breath and read the original post again. Pay special attention to the following:
He's a first-time visitor
He spent most of his days outside the hotel seeing as much of the north of the island as possible
He accepts that the vendors are trying to make a living
He says no and walks away but in many cases they actually grab him
He was accosted not only on the street and beach but also in restaurants and bars (which, by the way means he actually goes into local restaurants and bars)
He was even stopped in his taxi
He was told beforehand that the vendors were pushy but gave the DR a chance anyways.
He's not coming back
Seriously, do you guys honestly not see a problem here?
I can only hope that most of you are just having fun being contrary, because the alternative is spooky...
joecanada said:
Yes, we see a problem. We see a problem stated over and over and over again like a broken record with no solutions. We also see that no reasonable reply will make this tourist happy. He/She went away unhappy, he/she will not come back. We also see that this tourist could have done a lot more in order to be able to get rid of the vendors, but did not do so. We also see that no-one here can solve the "problem". We also see that this problem will probably not be solved in the short term.
Tourists also have responsibilities you know - A casual but firm no thank-you WITHOUT STOPPING would have helped this person... Ignoring the vendors, not meeting their eyes, not responding whatsoever would have helped this tourist. A guide would have helped this tourist. After one day of misery in the streets, this person could have written on the board and asked "Hey, these vendors are making my life a misery.. what do I do?" How much Spanish does this tourist have? Were they walking around with AI bands? Laden with cameras? Lots of jewellery? Looking affluent? These things are magnets for vendors...
So quite seriously, it looks like this tourist presented like a sitting AI duck for vendors... And then they will certainly make your life a misery. Most of us here say that if that is the case, if a tourist that cannot cope, and the tourist is not able to do those things that will help them cope, then it is better for them to vacation somewhere else, or stay in the AI. It is also better for the DR, because then we do not get disappointed tourists.
The DR is not a 'sanitized' tourist environment. Should it become so? That is another debate. Will some tourists be lost because of this.. for sure. Do the AI's present a sanitized environment, certainly so. Are the vendors a pain in the patoot, for sure they are. Does this problem have a solution? I don't think so unless the hotels start offering "Dealing with Vendors" orientation for all tourists.... Wow, I think there is an article in that....
conscience sociale les amigos!
The first economic resource of DR is the money members of their family send them from outside the country (for exemple a sister that lives in USA).
And I totally disagree with you Miguel when you say that "The street sellers, the beach sellers, the sankies/sankiettes, the motoconchos, the poor people, the blackouts, the corrupted officials, the crazy drivers and the Presidente beer are "here" to stay and since they have been "alive and well" for generations, they WILL still be there for more generations to come, whether a tourist likes it or not!!."
I totally refuse to turn a blind eye on any social, economic or environmental problem in DR and just do as if it was "part of the country". Lazyness of mind, that's what it is... So Miguel, according to your post, it means we shouldn't do anything to stop prostitution in DR (and many many prostitutes are minors), which is a plea and also the reason why Sosua has the highest percentage of AIDS in all DR! And we shouldn't stop people from drinking and driving and shouldn't stop the crazy drivers who are killing innocent victims by their foolish behavior??? (I saw a guagua from my own eyes hit a kid about 8 years old on the highway Gregorio Luperon in Sosua, the guagua stopped for 30 seconds and someone on the road just took him away in his arms...) And the blackouts.... because you can afford yourself an invertor means the governement shoudln't try to provide all its population electricity all day?!
I only hope that as a resident, you are at least doing ONE thing to help improve the country, because I don't think it is correct to move to another country with all your little personal comfort and just ignore what is going on around you and shut your social consciousness (but do you have one???).
Yes DR has the beach, the palms and the climax, the friendly people and the relax atmosphere, but that's not what will make this country go any further and come through its misery.
Rocky said:
The first economic resource of DR is the money members of their family send them from outside the country (for exemple a sister that lives in USA).
And I totally disagree with you Miguel when you say that "The street sellers, the beach sellers, the sankies/sankiettes, the motoconchos, the poor people, the blackouts, the corrupted officials, the crazy drivers and the Presidente beer are "here" to stay and since they have been "alive and well" for generations, they WILL still be there for more generations to come, whether a tourist likes it or not!!."
I totally refuse to turn a blind eye on any social, economic or environmental problem in DR and just do as if it was "part of the country". Lazyness of mind, that's what it is... So Miguel, according to your post, it means we shouldn't do anything to stop prostitution in DR (and many many prostitutes are minors), which is a plea and also the reason why Sosua has the highest percentage of AIDS in all DR! And we shouldn't stop people from drinking and driving and shouldn't stop the crazy drivers who are killing innocent victims by their foolish behavior??? (I saw a guagua from my own eyes hit a kid about 8 years old on the highway Gregorio Luperon in Sosua, the guagua stopped for 30 seconds and someone on the road just took him away in his arms...) And the blackouts.... because you can afford yourself an invertor means the governement shoudln't try to provide all its population electricity all day?!
I only hope that as a resident, you are at least doing ONE thing to help improve the country, because I don't think it is correct to move to another country with all your little personal comfort and just ignore what is going on around you and shut your social consciousness (but do you have one???).
Yes DR has the beach, the palms and the climax, the friendly people and the relax atmosphere, but that's not what will make this country go any further and come through its misery.
tourism
Sorry to disagree, Purefolie, but the #1 industry in the Dominican Republic is Tourism. I figure if I don't correct you, there will be about 50 members of this board who will jump all over you and call you all sorts of names for getting this wrong.
BTW: The three largest sources of foreign currency are tourism, zona franca and foreign remittances, so you're not far off.
When are you coming back, btw, and are you back at your old job?
Sorry to disagree, Purefolie, but the #1 industry in the Dominican Republic is Tourism. I figure if I don't correct you, there will be about 50 members of this board who will jump all over you and call you all sorts of names for getting this wrong.
BTW: The three largest sources of foreign currency are tourism, zona franca and foreign remittances, so you're not far off.
When are you coming back, btw, and are you back at your old job?
joecanada said:
Don't you think there is a pretty good chance that foreign remmitances are a lot higher than reported?
oups
yeah, back to my old job Joe! I am doing my final exam to enter RCMP this thursday, can't wait to go to Regina! I'll try to come back to Sosua before going there, because 6 months in Saskatchewan... God it's gonna be long!!!
Thanks for the correction by the way! I thought I had the right order but you are probably right, je te fais confiance!
Ok I am living DR1 forum for now, so don't insult me too much during my ausencia guys!
yeah, back to my old job Joe! I am doing my final exam to enter RCMP this thursday, can't wait to go to Regina! I'll try to come back to Sosua before going there, because 6 months in Saskatchewan... God it's gonna be long!!!
Thanks for the correction by the way! I thought I had the right order but you are probably right, je te fais confiance!
Ok I am living DR1 forum for now, so don't insult me too much during my ausencia guys!
Mr. Mike:
True, but you could say the same about Tourism, especially when you factor in the small businesses attached to it (like the vendors under discussion)
One could also make the case (although that would be for another thread) that much of the foreign remittance comes from expat dominicans who married and moved away or from foreigners who support friends/girlfriends/boyfriends etc. (a byproduct of tourism)
But, to avoid an argument unrelated to the topic at hand, I'll amend and say that the official number one industry in the Dominican Republic is Tourism.
True, but you could say the same about Tourism, especially when you factor in the small businesses attached to it (like the vendors under discussion)
One could also make the case (although that would be for another thread) that much of the foreign remittance comes from expat dominicans who married and moved away or from foreigners who support friends/girlfriends/boyfriends etc. (a byproduct of tourism)
But, to avoid an argument unrelated to the topic at hand, I'll amend and say that the official number one industry in the Dominican Republic is Tourism.
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So Miguel, according to your post, it means we shouldn't do anything to stop prostitution in DR (and many many prostitutes are minors), which is a plea and also the reason why Sosua has the highest percentage of AIDS in all DR!
[/QUOTE]
First of all, I know alot of prostitutes and most of them, underaged or not, support their families. There are no family values in these households because they are out on the streets with their families' approval. And underage or not these girls are out there because they want to be out there. How do you stop prostitution? The whole country is just too corrupt for me or you to do anything about this issue. So leave it alone. It's not your problem and it is certainly noone elses' on this forum. This is for the government and the culture to decide on, and it does'nt seem to bother THEM any, so why sweat it?
And as for Sosua having the highest percentage of AIDS in the whole country, where do you get your information from? I have heard the same thing being said about Boca Chica and Puerto Plata. A country that does not have the resources to track and monitor infected people cannot reliably keep figures on this or any other disease.
[/QUOTE]
First of all, I know alot of prostitutes and most of them, underaged or not, support their families. There are no family values in these households because they are out on the streets with their families' approval. And underage or not these girls are out there because they want to be out there. How do you stop prostitution? The whole country is just too corrupt for me or you to do anything about this issue. So leave it alone. It's not your problem and it is certainly noone elses' on this forum. This is for the government and the culture to decide on, and it does'nt seem to bother THEM any, so why sweat it?
And as for Sosua having the highest percentage of AIDS in the whole country, where do you get your information from? I have heard the same thing being said about Boca Chica and Puerto Plata. A country that does not have the resources to track and monitor infected people cannot reliably keep figures on this or any other disease.
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Yup, i stand corrected
Yup, its definitely tourism.........
Here's an excellent link backing up your statement--quite informative.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/dotoc.html
joecanada said:
Yup, its definitely tourism.........
Here's an excellent link backing up your statement--quite informative.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/frd/cs/dotoc.html
Indeed!
I am not talking out of my butt. Guess what, I remember my father getting mad a street vendors 30 YEARS AGO!!. Many moons later, they are still alive and well. You think that many have not tried to change the way these people do business?. My point is that they will not go anywhere, not for you, for me or for anybody.
I remember being 10 years old and getting mad when the 'light went out" while I was playing a game. Guess what, that was 33 years ago and the blackouts are alive and well still!.
I remember being on vacation and being approached by a sankiette asking me if I wanted her services. That was 22 years ago and they are still alive and well!.
I remember most of my father friends being corrupted officials. 35 years later, corruption is still alive and well!.
All that I mentioned on my other post as on this one, have been "fought" by Dominicans and by the police and at the end, nothing came of it.
News flash: prostitution and all types of Dominicam "problems" have been fought for many, many, many years!!. Guess what, they enforce any type of rule and in no time, they "forget" to keep enforcing it!.
I have 3 brothers that fought a few government regimes and I saw a few of their friends go to prison, being tortured or killed because they were "fighting" to better their country. I remembered my brothers getting all their friends together to go on strike every time the country got bad, whenever they raised food prices, whenever they raised the conchos prices, whenever there was any type of injustice that was hurting the Dominican population and you know what came out of it?, NOTHING!!. So don't tell me that things will change. That I wish they change, sure, but what makes you think that things that have been a Dominican norm for generations, things that many have fought to make better, things that are basically a way of life, will ever change?. History says that no matter how much you fight for anything in the DR, eventually it will stay the same!.
I am doing, for years, more than just one thing to help people in the DR.
You, keep on dreaming that things will change in the DR. Me, I will keep hoping that things will change but knowing that they will not. Anybody can hope. That I wish things change for the better, of course, but I am also a realistic that history has told that things will not change.
Talk to me in 10 years and let me know it the street sellers, the blackouts and all the other things that I mentioned have disappeared!!. Until then, talk to me about things that you know about!.
Don't preach to me about the "Dominican way of life".purefolie said:
I am not talking out of my butt. Guess what, I remember my father getting mad a street vendors 30 YEARS AGO!!. Many moons later, they are still alive and well. You think that many have not tried to change the way these people do business?. My point is that they will not go anywhere, not for you, for me or for anybody.
I remember being 10 years old and getting mad when the 'light went out" while I was playing a game. Guess what, that was 33 years ago and the blackouts are alive and well still!.
I remember being on vacation and being approached by a sankiette asking me if I wanted her services. That was 22 years ago and they are still alive and well!.
I remember most of my father friends being corrupted officials. 35 years later, corruption is still alive and well!.
All that I mentioned on my other post as on this one, have been "fought" by Dominicans and by the police and at the end, nothing came of it.
News flash: prostitution and all types of Dominicam "problems" have been fought for many, many, many years!!. Guess what, they enforce any type of rule and in no time, they "forget" to keep enforcing it!.
I have 3 brothers that fought a few government regimes and I saw a few of their friends go to prison, being tortured or killed because they were "fighting" to better their country. I remembered my brothers getting all their friends together to go on strike every time the country got bad, whenever they raised food prices, whenever they raised the conchos prices, whenever there was any type of injustice that was hurting the Dominican population and you know what came out of it?, NOTHING!!. So don't tell me that things will change. That I wish they change, sure, but what makes you think that things that have been a Dominican norm for generations, things that many have fought to make better, things that are basically a way of life, will ever change?. History says that no matter how much you fight for anything in the DR, eventually it will stay the same!.
I am doing, for years, more than just one thing to help people in the DR.
You, keep on dreaming that things will change in the DR. Me, I will keep hoping that things will change but knowing that they will not. Anybody can hope. That I wish things change for the better, of course, but I am also a realistic that history has told that things will not change.
Talk to me in 10 years and let me know it the street sellers, the blackouts and all the other things that I mentioned have disappeared!!. Until then, talk to me about things that you know about!.
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I find the post that started this thread rather strange. I have visited the DR about 20 times, generally in the Puerto Plata and Sosua area, though also in Santo Domingo, San Pedro, Boca Chica, and Las Terrenas and I can honestly say that people trying to sell me things has never really bothered me at all. OK, once or twice hookers have gone a little too far and had to be sent packing, but I find it hard to imagine how it could become so traumatic that someone would have their entire visit ruined because of this experience.
I have been many times to Sosua beach, and once even bought a $20 Rolex watch there, (which has given me excellent service for more than a year), but have never had an unpleasant experience there.
I know it is no good shooting the messenger, but at the same time, I have to wonder if there was something about the original poster that peculiarly attracted predatory salespeople.
It would certainly be a sad thing is people were to stay away from the DR is great numbers for this reason. Folks, it ain't that bad.
I have been many times to Sosua beach, and once even bought a $20 Rolex watch there, (which has given me excellent service for more than a year), but have never had an unpleasant experience there.
I know it is no good shooting the messenger, but at the same time, I have to wonder if there was something about the original poster that peculiarly attracted predatory salespeople.
It would certainly be a sad thing is people were to stay away from the DR is great numbers for this reason. Folks, it ain't that bad.
well I was at Sosua this past sat, and while I have said I hadnt been bother at all there other than cursory come ons to view their store or buy some cashews or what nots... this past weekened was a little different. I mentione dthis in another thread, but her eit goes again. It wasnt the best of days, very cloudy , and it was later in the afternoon, sooooo, its a given that spirits were down on the "boardwalk". We walked the beach down and came back along the 'storefonts". the second one is the guy asks me to check out his store, but he dont even nbother to get off his rock on the right side , even though his store is on the left side. I say no gracias, and he comes back, with "well then keep on with your motherfu***ng walking then" I wasnt in the mood and confronted him to show me how they MOTHERF***ING walk down here in the great DR...because i wanted to learn from the best!!!!!!!!!!!his eyes got as big as a tuna.....then it was smooth sailing, all the way back to where we had told the first guy where we were gonna sit that we wanted to walk before we ate. After that it was a short walk to the street, but we got hit just once more with a foul mouthed sourpuss. I was carrying my girlfriend on my back with her sister walking along side and we say hello and no gracias to this guy infront of his bar, and as we walk by we motuths off something...my girl gasps a little, and I know he said something malicious, so i instantly turn and even though I have no idea what he said, I say to him firmly as I walk right up to his with my girl still on "QUE??". he lost a few shades of his dark skin, and he started mumbling and back walking into his store and I know I heard a few lo sientos...then as i walk away my girl is laughing like crazy...apparently I scared him pretty bad......how fooling is it for some of these people to think that no one will understand them. Luckily I dont have the temper I had when I was younger. For myself i could care less, i hate the reaction my girl has when we hear this crap.........but in all we walked past a LOT of vendors and little store fronts... and only got two bad remarks on a dismalish day.........bob
How many times are you going to post this bob? so now we know, you like playing the tough guy in front of your "girl"
I guess until its clear in your mind...because I mentioned it in DIFFERENT threads, of which different people read....doesnt mean it happens over and over, no matter how many times I tell about it.... anything else youd like to bitch about???????......bob
It is clear in my mind what your are all about Bob, but this thread is all about trip reports, not how tough you think you are.
Good Day
Good Day
That may have been true, 25 years ago.Exxtol said:
Tourism is unquestionably number 1 now, and has been for a long time.
BERTGILBERT..... I have a great idea. next time you see a post from me, JUST BOTHER READING IT.... easy enough..............then you wont be intimidated any more........bob