It may not be as safe here as you'd like, or would hope to believe.

MariaRubia

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Sorry but one final and important point. Your post is titled that you may not be as safe here as you think. And in reality you weren't unsafe. She was being a chapiadora, that's standard, but nobody mugged you at knifepoint, nobody stole anything from you, nobody hit you. And I very much doubt that anyone would have done, no matter how much she screamed.

It's a difficult country to live in, but compared to Mexico or Honduras, or indeed parts of the US, it's still quite safe for foreigners.
 

Joseph NY2STI

Well-known member
Mar 22, 2020
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"... if a woman, my height with heels on (and I am not a tall man) can cause this much drama, show off and show out in public and GET HER WAY and GET AWAY WITH IT what chance do you think you stand against a real, determined male attacker or robber?"

I've read lots of horror stories, but I've never heard of a ladrone posing as a female housekeeper on a dating site. Even if one did, he's not going to meet a man at a public mall during the day. Aside from that, was the few dollars worth all the trouble? Had you thrown a couple of hundred pesos on the table and walked away she likely would have also. Worst of all, she's now living rent free in your head.

A while back on another thread someone posted these words of wisdom: "Dominicans like Dominicans". Those security guards were Dominicans.
Here are some more words of wisdom: Don't look for housekeepers on chapi sites.
 

MariaRubia

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Jun 25, 2019
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Maria, so do you do everything in writing now?

No, even if you do that it doesn't work. Quite often whatsapp messages confirm the price, but then it's always a case of "ah but that didn't include a) or b) or I didn't realise that you wanted it done that way, or blah blah blah. In my experience Haitians are the worst at this, they almost always try to double their price half-way through a job.

I just tend to stick to people I have worked with before and I always have my Dominicans around me. If I think it's going to be tricky then I give the money to a Dominican that I trust and get them to do the paying, that usually works much better.
 

drstock

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Oct 29, 2010
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"I met a woman through Dominicancupid after sending out around 20-30 copies of the same 1 very clear message detailing that I was looking for someone to assist with home chores/quehaceres."

I have never used Dominican Cupid, but I understand it is a "dating" site used extensively by girls looking for foreigners who will pay them. Hardly the place to find someone to help with household chores.
 

CristoRey

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Apr 1, 2014
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Welcome To Wonderland!
This is by far the funniest sh*t I've heard on DR1 in years. Thanks for sharing.
 

FF1

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Dec 17, 2022
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too long winded for me to read. blah blah blah. whatever happened ....suck it up and move on...boringggggg
Long story short; the girl came to a job interview, realized she wasn't gonna get hired and that she wasted her time, asked for a few pesos to get home and he said no, the girl got pissed off and made a fuss until she got the money, and then she left. Boo-hoo.
 
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FF1

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PS. Also what really pissed him off was that the mall security guards just laughed at them and didn't wanna get involved :ROFLMAO: Yep, not as safe here as you'd like.
 
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rey

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Hello everyone. I want to make and send out a quick, yet detailed write up of a really disturbing and distressing situation that occurred to me recently. Long time, first time here on DR1 but I’ve spent some time in the country. I travel back to my home country regularly but have spent a few years here in DR. I know that is nothing compared to some of the posters here but it is how long I’ve experienced the place. There are many things I love about the country, and many things I do not. The country itself, as many note is absolutely gorgeous. There is a lot of variety and I love that everything is so geographically accessible. The people are a bit hit or miss but I find that in general it is easier to find kind, genuine, positive minded people here than in some other places I’ve traveled. That said, there is a lot of social corruption here. Not just “give the police 500 pesos instead of paying a 1,500 peso speeding ticket” but materialism, the love of money, and what I like to call “plural selfishness” reign in this country. People say that people are very “close to their family” here in that they love their families. What they omit is that oftentimes this comes at the detriment of society. Many people think nothing of stealing, driving recklessly to the extent of killing or maiming others or themselves on the roads, allowing their children to stay awake and in the streets all hours of the night, committing fraud, etc. Perhaps the worst crime is turning a blind eye to individuals who are perpetrating these crimes - allowing them to grow in frequency and severity. Those activities do not have any “negative social value/regard” especially not in contrast to “buscando su dinero” and making some sort of financial or social come-up. This is present at all levels of society and in all demographics. And I mean all levels. No “group” is exempt.


My original reason for coming here over say Colombia, or especially Brazil or Mexico was the security situation. This country, at least when I first came here has had the reputation for being relatively safe, especially compared to once again, countries like Jamaica, or Colombia or Brazil. I’ve since done a lot of reading and have learned that many foreigners have run into many problems, especially after being in the country for an extended period of time. These problems include financial social corruption (“Want to leave the DR a millionaire? Come with 2 million”), small and big-time fraud and “estafando” and up to and including robbery and murder.
I’m writing this to specifically recount an event that happened to me very recently. I don’t like to keep secrets or omit information but due to the way the world is now a days I think it would be wise to not name names or locations. Honestly though, given where it did occur it could have quite likely happened anywhere. This location is one of the shopping malls located in the city. I, like many younger/middle aged men that are foreigners here do not have a wife or a girlfriend with whom I live. Many, perhaps even the majority of relationships, amorous or platonic, in western countries these days start or form through OLD – Online Dating. I have a Tinder and a Dominicancupid account. I met a woman through Dominicancupid after sending out around 20-30 copies of the same 1 very clear message detailing that I was looking for someone to assist with home chores/quehaceres. AT NO POINT IN TIME WHATSOEVER AT ALL did I make ANY overt or covert overatures OF ANY SORT to this person. To be quite straightforward I did not even find them attractive. We exchanged communication information and I arranged to meet them in this shopping mall – a public, supposedly secure location where I could vet them properly for an interview.

I will be upfront and say that originally I offered a few options of locations to meet and she originally chose the Zona Colonial. A couple hours before the meet up I let her know I didn’t feel like heading over that way and that this shopping mall would be easier and more convenient for me and explicitly said, in writing “Te puedo dar 100 pesos para ayudarte a llegar”. I headed out the door and we arrived more or less at the same time. She immediately upon seeing me told me she needed 400 pesos to pay the transport from Villa Mella and that she left her phone with the taxista como un seguro. I’m sure a number of you reading this are smiling/laughing at this very moment and know exactly where this is going. I showed her on my phone that I said 100 pesos, in writing and told her that was the agreement we made. Despite this, I gave her the 400 pesos and told her I would give NO MORE. We went in, I got an ice cream and we sat down to talk.

Aside from the 400 pesos thing, I really didn’t like the cut of her jib from the moment I saw her. She had tattoos, was overly made up and just was not the sort of person I was looking to be seen with, let alone invite to my home to help with anything. I try to be careful with the people I interact with and though I don’t want to offend anyone I come from a pretty dangerous area and have learned to avoid people who have a certain look to them, or who talk/sound a certain way for my own safety. That said, I invited this person here and felt like the most appropriate course of action would be to at least give them a cursory interview and to state the basic requirements of the job and ask if they had any questions instead of dismissing them outright, which for me would have been weird.

The interview lasted something like 7-10 minutes. Basic questions, basic answers. At the end I told them it was time for me to go. This is where everything turned into a small, sanitized verison of hell. She IMMEDIATELY told me she didn’t know where she was, she needed to get back in a taxi, she didn’t have paisaje etc. etc. I told her that there is a metro out front on la LincolnXJFK and that she could take that metro to arrive to her destination. She was not having it. I got up, put my headphones on and some music on and started walking away. She followed me, sticking very close to me and about 5 seconds after standing up and walking away she WENT OFF. She was not “yelling at the top of her lungs” but she was making a very calculated scene. Any and everyone within 50-80 feet could hear and see her. Listen, I know this happens, I know this is a tactic. I’m aware - I’ve heard stories of this happening when a guy invites a girl to have sex for money and the girl adjusts the time then the guy wants to adjust the price, or if the girl pulls a switcheroo and sends pictures that aren’t her then shows up and the guy declines services. What I WAS NOT AWARE OF was that someone could or WOULD do this in a PUBLIC MALL where there are literally thousands of people, cameras and security. And make no mistake about it, she did it just like we were on the streets in some back alley barrio. I was incredibly embarrassed and immediately went to security. THIS is where things became OUTRAGEOUS. The security, while maintaining a professional demeanor and remaining “neutral” – while this person was literally making a scene - “un escandalo” - was smirking and sort of making a “Oh boy you really stepped in it didn’t ya??” face. I pleaded multiple times – I am a paying customer in this mall, this woman has paid nothing and has no intentions of patronizing any of the stores here. I want to make further purchases, she is following me around the mall and harassing me, including touching me and sticking her finger in my face. She was very obviously disturbing hundreds of other mall patrons and in general doing her ghetto barrio thing in the middle of a place that makes hundreds of millions if not over a Billion (mil millones for you Dominicans ;)) of dollars a year. And the security? Nothing. I was COMPLETELY TAKEN ABACK because where I come from this would have been unthinkable/impossible. Security act as police and they would have immediately told her to quiet down and if she continued acting like that they would have thrown her out of the mall. They would have physically restrained her and taken her to the back office and called the police the moment she kept going on and on. You just *cannot* throw a public temper tantrum in my country of origin without security/the police telling you to settle down or becoming phsyically involved.

Instead, the security called for his supervisor. The entire time we are waiting for the supervisor the woman is going on and on. His supervisor was literally basically a copy of him, minus the smirking. These people apparently had ABSOLUTELY ZERO desire or authority to control this situation in ANY WAY AT ALL. I made an idle threat, telling them that we should call the police, hoping the woman would leave but she would not budge. I, multiple times asked the security to either restrain her (either verbally ordering her to remain there, or physically restraining her if she attempted to follow me) so that I could leave without being harassed or to order her to leave while I remain there, to in effect separate us. I, multiple times asked the security if there was a private place we could go while we waited for his supervisor or to wait for the police. It was like NO ONE had ANY INTENTIONS of ANYTHING happening other than allowing this woman to act like she was acting in the middle of one of the busiest malls in the city. It was literally like it was written down somewhere that she was exercising her God-Given right to freak out. Finally, the supervisor stated that he wanted us to go to a private area “to discuss this further”. I told him I would back away while they went onward, and go in a different direction and he nodded to me but I didn’t do it deftly enough and she literally ran after me, in heels chasing me through the mall (for about 15-30 feet, into the Jumbo supermarket, not a super long distance, but I really didn’t want to cause a further scene).

In the private area we were joined by 3 other people with mall shirts on and the ENTIRE THING was nothing other than a Jerry Springer show. There was ZERO desire on anyone’s part to do ANYTHING other than listen to this woman cry about how I needed to give her money so she could return home. I DID NOT AGREE TO THAT and had ZERO INTENTIONS on giving her anything other than 100 pesos, and that only in order to be fair for switching the venue last minute. When I saw where this was going I told everyone present “OK, ya mira. Ya yo veo. Solo vamos a resolver eso por yo dando a ella el dinero que nunca dije que daría, si?” “ No hay otra? Nadie va a decirle a ella que SALGA porque ella se está comportando así? Nadie le va a decir nada a ella, si? Entonces mira discúlpeme por hacernos todos perder nuestro tiempo.” I only had a 500 peso and 1,000 peso notes so I gave her the 500 and LET THIS WOMAN ROB ME not just of my money but also damaging my reputation in a place that I frequent rather regularly in order to make all this end as soon as possible.





Look, I get it. You play in dirt, you get dirty, right? Only I WASN’T PLAYING IN DIRT. Believe me or not, at no point did I promise this woman ANY money other than the 100 pesos. At NO POINT did I ever discuss WORD ONE of sex nor ANYTHING romantic. Yeah, I met her on a “dating website” but the site is also set up for meeting new people, and making friends and I was explicitly clear the entire time that I was only seeking help with cleaning. This is not fair, and this country and the culture should not be like this. But it is, and instead of crying, whining, moaning and complaining I’m going to be very grateful for the lesson. At the same time, what exactly did I learn? Well, the “Security of being in a public place, with private security guards” is not to be assumed here. I watched 5-6 guys watch this woman make a “show”- I mean crying, kneeling down, pointing her finger in my face, telling them she had kids and didn’t know how to get back to her kids. And NONE OF THEM DID ANYTHING. I get that this happens when people are involved in the sex trade, or other unscrupulous activities and that it should be expected in those cases but for this to bleed over into real life at a normal, professional, public location is too much. THIS WOULD HAVE NEVER HAPPENED in my home country. They would have stopped her in her tracks the moment she started causing a scene. My expectations were to go to the security guard, ask him to help her locate the metro, and give her information about how to board it, or how to speak with someone there about how to get back to where she came from. Instead, I watched 6 guys stand around and allow this woman to shake me down. Literally no one did anything productive, and very few of them said even a word. They all just sat around and watched the show.

In fin, extrapolating this situation: if a woman, my height with heels on (and I am not a tall man) can cause this much drama, show off and show out in public and GET HER WAY and GET AWAY WITH IT what chance do you think you stand against a real, determined male attacker or robber? Someone who isn’t crying and using words and following you around the mall/harassing you but rolls up to you on the back of their friend’s motor? Consider that sometimes individuals who rob or kill are involved with or members of the military or police. This has opened my eyes to a level of danger that I was not originally aware of, and don’t wish to have be a normal part of my life. Okay, if you are dealing with or in drugs, prostitution, gangs, or going into the barrio para beber y “hacer coro” or even living in the campo, things can happen. But if this can happen in one of the most financially active places of the city, a place where the rich, famous and those with status come to shop, what does that tell you?

I will say that thank god I’m not stupid enough/am well informed enough (in no small part thanks to this site) to know that despite the fact that this person did this to me, and everyone stood around and did absolutely nothing that calling the police and interacting with them would have made the situation 100 times worse. But really, who wants to live like that? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t, trapped on all sides. I can't call the police because they will shake me down, I can't escape this woman without physically forcing her to leave me alone - which will potentially/likely result in severe consequences for me or PERHAPS running like some mad man through the mall, potentially injuring myself and I cannot rely on the security forces to separate us or to tell her to stop harassing me when it's CLEAR she is in the wrong based on how she is behaving and because they know this country and they know how certain sorts of people behave. The security supervisor also asked her if "Este hombre tiene algun compromiso contigo?" and she straight up said "NO, pero blah blah blah" the whole story about me inviting her there and her having no way back to her kids. That is NOT my problem and it's ludicrious that he did not shut her down the MOMENT she said no.

As much as it sounds like hyperbole I am also grateful that I was not physically attacked. It would have taken nothing for her to gouge my eyes or to scratch and disfigure my face with her fake nails. She was following me around and even with us less than 1 foot from the security and her supervisor at no point did she chill out - invading my space, putting her finger inches from my face and raising her voice.

I’m ready to hear how and why this was all my fault, how I should have done this, that or the other thing to avoid this situation, how I am in the wrong for inviting this person for an interview and how stupid I am for even writing this up. That said I hope this helps someone else moving forward to understand how these people operate. The only advice I have is to:

1. – only ever deal with women or people in general who are 100% on the level. Religious people who have calm, tranquil spirits, those women that wear the dresses that come down to their ankles even in the hot weather. I've had a lot of REALLY great experiences with people in this country and it's almost always with traditional women who come from religious backgrounds or who are heavy into the church. ALWAYS do a video before meeting anyone and if you see ANYTHING that doesn't look chill, leave them alone immediately.

2. Do not make any excuses or give any leeway whatsoever at all in regards to the kind of people you meet up with. I didn’t see that this woman had tattoos in the original photos she posted nor was she as heavily and distastefully made up in her pictures as she was in person. There was however a certain hardness and roughness about her face that I found off-putting and that I attributed to age. If I’d been more selective/more willing to filter her out due to this (something that is generally disapproved of in Western English society where you “shouldn’t pre-judge people”) I might have been able to avoid this situation. She also had ONE relatively tame picture of her in a bikini, no weird or sexy pose, nothing uncommon at all for this country, very normal really but definitely not something that a rural, traditional woman from the campo would be seen in, let alone post/send pictures of to a stranger.

ONE LAST THING – I’ve met HUNDREDS of women in this country for all kinds of things and have spoken with thousands. Business, dating, friendships, friends of friends, etc. And I have *never* had an experience anything like this whatsoever at all. I’ve recently become very shy about spending lots of time with girls on the phone prior to meeting in person for a coffee because I don’t want to waste too much time and feel like a coffee date is the best way to get to know someone without wasting too much time but I now 100% understand why Dominican women repeatedly tell me that they’ve never met anyone from online before me (and some of them areobviously likely lying) and that it is something they are very nervous about and that they take very seriously. I CAN ONLY IMAGINE being a woman and running in to a guy or a group of guys that behave like this and then having the “security” of an area basically allow them to follow you around/stal you or to invade your space. It really makes a lot of sense and moving forward I can’t fault them for wanting to talk via text/phone for a day or few before setting up a coffee date.

I hope this helps someone, if nothing else but to give some of you something to laugh at. Best wishes.
In In fin, extrapolating this situation: if a woman, my height with heels on (and I am not a tall man) can cause this much drama, show off and show out in public and GET HER WAY and GET AWAY WITH IT what chance do you think you stand against a real, determined male attacker or robber?






****

Short answer : 0.00% CHANCE


When I first came to this site DR1 I would ask questions / post about safety due to all the rumors and YouTube Dominican news I have seen about danger and crime in DR , however to my surprise 9 out of 10 replies from DR1 members woul le just make fun about my worries or insisting I was being paranoid , or even worst completely dismissing the fact that DR is as dangerous as the rumors and some of those YouTube Dominican news I’ve speak of…IN fact I remember one post that would implied that I had a hidden agenda cause I was being too concern about safety in DR1.

THE DR is dangerous and the police believe it or NOT can do whatever they please with you during a traffic stop or “chequeo rutinario” and the DELICUENCIA is alive and real in DR….. BUT BUT that doesn’t stop me from saying that the DR it’s beautiful country and the women are sexy as hell and lots of good people live there , and it’s cheap compare to NYC , …..


PS::: For those members that will replied saying am exaggerating, I am NOT … I tell why … all those YouTube Dominican news and documentaries and IG pages and rumors CAN NOT be a conspiracy ! For what purpose ?


ONE LAST POINT : I LOVE DR !
 
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rey

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Jan 2, 2007
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Sorry but one final and important point. Your post is titled that you may not be as safe here as you think. And in reality you weren't unsafe. She was being a chapiadora, that's standard, but nobody mugged you at knifepoint, nobody stole anything from you, nobody hit you. And I very much doubt that anyone would have done, no matter how much she screamed.

It's a difficult country to live in, but compared to Mexico or Honduras, or indeed parts of the US, it's still quite safe for foreigners.
It was a matter of time to that escalated to a PHYSICAL altercation
 

melphis

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Apr 18, 2013
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Please quit doing the respond to the OP thing. It was way to long and boring the first time. Why on earth would anyone want to read that load of nonsense twice.
Sounds like just another guy that will get skinned alive here.
 

ramesses

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Jun 17, 2005
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Talk about a mild interaction. Nothing actually happened. He got embarrassed by a woman he was not attracted to.
 

Facepalm Supreme

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Dec 29, 2022
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Santo Domingo
DR_Guy - We all lead busy lives and have limited time so I fully understand.

Ramesses - I get this. I'd have to respectfully disagree, however. Or it could simply be that we have different tolerances/thresholds for different behaviors. Or different values/morals and expectations of ourselves and others. That is normal.

Bill - Couldn't you just send those mustached women off to the salon? Pretty normal thing for a guy to do to/for a woman here. You might be missing out on some keepers. I agree with you on the other traits you listed, also not in to augmented breasts.

Big - Good to hear :D

Keepcoming - I see your post as deserving of a two-part response from me. Let's tackle the first and easiest of the two points. I 100% absolutely agree - references are highly valuable, and in the future it would be a solid choice to go in this direction. I can't disagree or see fault with this advice in any way.

Regarding being a "guest" in this country. That is certainly one way to put it. When this statement is uttered I often feel it is a bit of a cop out and used to justify bad behavior and or to encourage or demand that one supplicate and tolerate/go along with/agree with/"Understand" whatever behavior the "host" is exhibiting. I don't agree with this. In many cultures guest right is sacred, being an ancient enough tenet to be mentioned in various holy books. Hosts have an obligation to treat their guests appropriately - with justice and honor, in a righteous manner. *That said* I do *not* see your statement being written in that light, but rather quite matter of factly. Perhaps even in an "you're not from here, so watch yourself and know your limitations" sort of way. I cannot agree with you more in regards to this. I am a stranger, in a strange land (not really, DR is basically a copy of any Western country, and is similar to other Latin American countries, though it admittedly has it's own flavor, but I digress). And it cannot be stressed enough that I don't have anyone's army or "friends in high places" or Uncle Ricardo with the escopeta to defend or protect me if things go south. When in doubt, it's best to pipe down and get out of dodge.


Johne - I don't know Rey so I can't comment/ don't know enough about the inside joke regarding him or his habits to respond appropriately.


Ramesses - I agree the situation could have been worse. That said, it was inappropriate and a different form of robbery. No one, no matter their culture or country of origin - and make no mistake about it, they may speak Spanish in this country but we are all WESTERN PEOPLE, not from some undiscovered tribe in the amazon or isolated village in India with values and norms that are incomprehensible - has the right to demand money from you that you haven't agreed to. That is harassment, and a form of robbery. In Jamaica, panhandlers are often described as "aggressive" and make no doubt about it that's exactly what happened here. Someone that you have not bought a product or service from, that you have made no pre-existing agreement with telling you that you NEED to give them money or they are going to cause problems for you. That is not okay. That is immoral and via the broken windows theory it leads to a sense of entitlement that ends with her children growing up to rob, and very possibly murder people. You need to stop immorality and crime at the root, before it grows, in the words of Cersei Lannister "Into a cancerous weed".


SKY - I believe you are a long time poster, so I'd like to address your response as respectfully as possible - I must say that no one was forced to read this post and I find the comment to be rudely and aggressively worded. The response comes off as overly and unnecessarily hostile. That said, the world isn't going to pat your (my) head and rub your (my) feet and I don't know what kind of day you've had or what your motivations are for responding this way but I do sincerely thank you for responding.

I paid the 9 Dollars. I shouldn't have had to. It's no different than being accosted by some kids from the hood in Chicago or LA in a shopping mall and being told to "pay up" or they are going to "cause problems" for you. It isn't acceptable behavior and I think it would be poorly received if someone said something to the effect of "So what are you writing to us about it for? Next time just pay them the money and stfu. You're on their turf, you play by their rules." Though I understand that for many of us $9 is an insignificant sum, the quantity isn't really the point. Right is right and wrong is wrong.

cavok - The initial meet was set for the Zona Colonial. I changed the location to a shopping mall. In order to assist with the transportation I offered, in writing 100 Pesos to assist with her transportation. When she arrived she told me the uber was charging 400. That was not what I agreed to, but I gave her the 400. When the interview ended she got real nasty and told me she didn't have any way home and didn't know how to get back to her place from where she was and that she needed more money to get back. At no point did I agree to give her money above or beyond 100 pesos, and that was just in order to be kind/polite for changing the location last minute. I have met with dozens, perhaps a hundred people and VERY FEW have EVER even asked me to pay for their transportation, and always up front, never as a *SURPRISE* "tu me debes mil pesos por mi transporte" kind of thing.


Northern Coast Diver - I can understand why you'd say that. I don't 100% agree. That said it would have been best for me to give her 100 pesos, as agreed upon and then she could have thrown a tantrum outside of the mall. Much easier for me to get away from there without issues. A woman in heels cannot very easily follow a man in shoes walking down JFK, or most streets in the capital without tripping and falling. But when they are buscando su dinero they can surprise ya with the capabilities for sure, so it's not guaranteed

XQT - I agree with your first two paragraphs other than to say "not all, just some", but probably more than half in my experience. Even people who are generally nice are still "Dominican" and there is just a culture that permeates here, especially in the city, but any and everywhere all over the country really. And I don't mean that disrespectfully to any Dominicans or lovers thereof, it's just sort of a matter of fact sort of thing. Canadians are generally overly nice and polite. That isn't to say there aren't mean Canadians, it just is what it is.

I understand spanish, and I understand the mentality.

I don't agree regarding the women with dresses down to their ankles. As said before, corruption exists at all levels and within all groups but I've found that the rural religious communities, especially the more specific groups (Am I allowed to say Adventists? If not, please let me know and I'll edit it out) tend to be sincerely positively oriented people and stay away from trouble. At the same time many people here claim to be religious but do not exhibit the values or mannerisms of tranquility, peacefulness, moderation, love for the other, etc. It's kind of just something a lot of people say by default.


Maria - I get it, I really do. Vancouver is different from Toronto. Toronto is different from Montreal. Chicago is different from a small town in Ohio, or a suburb in Utah. That said, some values are world wide. If I say I'll give you 100 pesos, it is not appropriate to demand, up to and including putting your hands on me and yelling and cursing and making a public scene for me to give you MORE money after I've given you 400 pesos. That is not right. It has nothing to do with culture or geography. Math is math all over the world. The DR is not an alternate universe or a lost amazonian tribe. It is a Western Country in the middle of the Western world. Mall security should ensure that the situation is secure. If any crazy person can be inside the mall screaming and ranting, it's not okay. It's a problem that needs to be addressed, not coddled and ignored. That is why the situation regarding lack of order has been able to become as chaotic as it is.

point 2 - I agree with you. This is classic tribalism and can be escalated up to and including "My family member raped and killed someone else's and we dont GAF because they are our family. Deal with it or do something about it." This is not acceptable. Morally, might does not make right. Group identity does not give you moral permission to excuse criminal or socially unacceptable acts commited by the people of "your group". Further, it will come back to bite you because very often people abuse and criminalize members of their own group because they are the ones that they are in the closest physical proximity to and have the most opportunity to abuse. It is critical to self-police oneself, and next one's group in order to maintain order and a functioning, healthy society.


point 3 - I absolutely 100% agree and this is exactly what the first security guard said. It's also a phrase I've read here many times before. Keep in mind I did give her the money, and around 20 minutes transpired from start to finish. I simply attempted to get security involved, and it was a complete flop. If you are in Chicago or LA and some local kids threaten you to pay up or face the consequences I'm not going to advise you to "whatever you do, do the morally right thing. Resist!!" because it is more complicated than that. You have an obligation to yourself, your safety, security and peace to do whatever is most prudent. Sometimes you need to surrender $5 or $10 or $20 and live to fight another day. That said, it would be inappropriate to tell someone who was in LA or Chicago and basically gets stuck up by some corner kids to "get off their moral high horse". I believe I understand that you didn't mean it in a directed, accusatory way at me but rather mean that there are factors that come before and above "Morality at all costs!!!" and I absolutely agree.

point 4 - you are 100% right.
 
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