National blackout?

[NALs]

I have been talking to lots of Dominicans from all sorts of classes and most of them are aware of the issues and most of them recognize they are putting up with lots of BS. They admit themselves that they complain but put up with the issues instead of rising up and demanding change. Hence, I wouldn't call it ignorance, I would call it lack of coordination.

That's because there is nothing to rise up and demand. The solution to this problem is well known by most Dominicans and it lies in a change of attitude when it comes to free ---- errr, electricity.

That is one large piece of this puzzle and it falls right on the lap of --- oh oh ---- the consumers!

This is not a problem that can be entirely fixed "from above", its from the ground up. Everyone knows that, but few are willing to do what it takes (pay their bills and be legit)!

Its better to pretend that you are NOT a part of the problem, and use the results for politicking. And as anyone remotely acquainted with the DR knows, after baseball, politics and politicking is the national sport!

But its pretend, when most people stop pretending they have nothing to do with the electricity problem; that's when the attitudes will change and that's when real change in this sector will be seen.

Until then, its back to playing the blame game and the basic rule of this game is that the fault lies on everyone except you.

Wonderful, eh?


-NALs

 

[Tropicdude]

...make it 20...

it's back for now in PP.

Maybe never, I have been living in and out of the D.R. since 1976, and the rolling black outs happened back then also.

If you want to know why things happen, just follow the money.

there is a shortage of power production here in the D.R., why? is it because in the last 50 years they didn't have time to buy generators?, or do you think its because they couldn't afford these plants? nope, its about profit.

You see some generators cost more to operate than others, Hydro is mostly just maintenance cost. no fuel is used. on the other hand diesel plants, use fuel, that fuel cuts into their profits big time. if it wasnt profitable to shut down the costlier plants, they wouldn't do it period.

In "Las Terrenas" they had/have a private power company, they only have Diesel Generators, if they cut power, or a generator goes bad, they lose money, so guess what?, the power doesn't go off! in Las Terrenas ( unless a poll get knocked over etc)

The power problem could be fixed in a few months in this country if they wanted it to, but as long as they make more money by having a "shortage" its going to stay the same.

Those in charge at the CDE are corrupt and the president doesn't care.
Leonel keeps all those around him happy, by allowing them to basically rip anyone off as much as they like, and anyway they like.

Don't even get me started on the School book fiasco and rip off, that's for another thread.. irate:

 

[NALs]

Maybe never, I have been living in and out of the D.R. since 1976, and the rolling black outs happened back then also.

If you want to know why things happen, just follow the money.

there is a shortage of power production here in the D.R., why? is it because in the last 50 years they didn't have time to buy generators?, or do you think its because they couldn't afford these plants? nope, its about profit.

You see some generators cost more to operate than others, Hydro is mostly just maintenance cost. no fuel is used. on the other hand diesel plants, use fuel, that fuel cuts into their profits big time. if it wasnt profitable to shut down the costlier plants, they wouldn't do it period.

In "Las Terrenas" they had/have a private power company, they only have Diesel Generators, if they cut power, or a generator goes bad, they lose money, so guess what?, the power doesn't go off! in Las Terrenas ( unless a poll get knocked over etc)

The power problem could be fixed in a few months in this country if they wanted it to, but as long as they make more money by having a "shortage" its going to stay the same.

Those in charge at the CDE are corrupt and the president doesn't care.
Leonel keeps all those around him happy, by allowing them to basically rip anyone off as much as they like, and anyway they like.

Don't even get me started on the School book fiasco and rip off, that's for another thread.. irate:

They keep the most expensive generators off because they can't finance their operation 24/7 with so many consumers not paying their bills!

In Las Terrenas, everybody pays!

You are right about one thing, it is about profit. There is not a single business that makes a profit by offering a service that is 'lost' in distribution to tappers, and a large chunck of the rest that reaches their intended destination goes unpaid.

What type of business is that? Had electricity not been so vital, it would had been bankrupted and closed a long time ago.

BTW, there is no real shortage in electricity production; its all artificially made by the attitudes of the consumers who think (free) electricity is a God given right.

-NALs

 

[SantiagoDR]

Again, no argument. But $US700,000,000 in arrears is a LOT of jack.

Sure is a lot of "jack"!

How much "jack'" is the monthly elected politicians payroll ?
(Including subsidies, special funds and all those getting their 85%(?) for life because they got elected at least once)


SantiagoDR
I survived the National Blackout – 2009

18/7 and counting

 

[SantiagoDR]

.....BTW, there is no real shortage in electricity production; its all artificially made by the attitudes of the consumers who think (free) electricity is a God given right.

-NALs

Well, NALs!

What else besides "Free" electricity do the people get for all the taxes they pay?

Roads that are made of "Biodegradable/Water-Solulable" crap?

Underpaid Police Officers? (While politicians live high on the hog)

When the government started the neighborhood security plan, you do know that they did not pay the officers for 3 months or longer, right? Did they also hold off on paying the politicians?

Why, do you think that "Prices" for items in the D.R. "Includes" taxes?

Because they don't want the consumer to realize they are paying 16% tax.

It is a hidden tax from the eyes of the consumer, hell, New York don't charge that much.
Sure it may show on the receipts, but who scrutinizes the receipts?

If the public were faced with adding 16% to the price of (Most) everything they buy,
..... how do you think they would react?

And don't forget the total 28% tax on all "Telecommunications".

Perhaps the government created the God given right.


SantiagoDR
I survived the National Blackout – 2009

 

[cobraboy]

Well, NALs!

What else besides "Free" electricity do the people get for all the taxes they pay?

Roads that are made of "Biodegradable/Water-Solulable" crap?

Underpaid Police Officers? (While politicians live high on the hog)

When the government started the neighborhood security plan, you do know that they did not pay the officers for 3 months or longer, right? Did they also hold off on paying the politicians?

Why, do you think that "Prices" for items in the D.R. "Includes" taxes?

Because they don't want the consumer to realize they are paying 16% tax.

It is a hidden tax from the eyes of the consumer, hell, New York don't charge that much.
Sure it may show on the receipts, but who scrutinizes the receipts?

If the public were faced with adding 16% to the price of (Most) everything they buy,
..... how do you think they would react?

And don't forget the total 28% tax on all "Telecommunications".

Perhaps the government created the God given right.


SantiagoDR
I survived the National Blackout ? 2009

I'm certainly not going to defend the DR gubmint. No way.

But what do you think would happen of ALL hidden taxes were known to the people in EVERY country (including the good ol' U.S. of A)?

Just wait when the Global Warming energy tax hits the power bills stateside!:cheeky: I mighy burn a tire myself!

 

[SantiagoDR]

...... But what do you think would happen of ALL hidden taxes were known to the people in EVERY country (including the good ol' U.S. of A)? ......

At least in the good ol' U.S. of A. sales tax is not anywhere near 16%.
And the price shown at the store does not include it.

Thus giving me something to bitch about every time I add it to the cost of the item. irate: :bandit: lol

Have the total taxes in the U.S. reached 28% yet on Telecommunications?
I don't know.

And I refer to the total tax percent (%) not the number of different taxes.


SantiagoDR
I survived the D.R. taxes – so far!

 

[mountainannie]

OH NALS, now that I know that you live in Connecticut and not here in the DR, I am just going to move your postings to the

"goings on in Fairfield County" column.
You are like those immigrants who come to America and tell everyone how wonderful it was back "in the old country"
I thought you were down here, serving your country.
It is really hot here. The service is horrible. The prices are high.
All the doctors do in the public hospitals is write out prescriptions for pills that the people cannot afford to buy. And believe me, there are far, far, far too many guns.......

But I remember that it is really lovely by the Sound in the summertime, isn't it?

yup, we are even cranky in Gazcue. Even with electricity.

 

[NALs]

OH NALS, now that I know that you live in Connecticut and not here in the DR, I am just going to move your postings to the

"goings on in Fairfield County" column.
You are like those immigrants who come to America and tell everyone how wonderful it was back "in the old country"
I thought you were down here, serving your country.
It is really hot here. The service is horrible. The prices are high.
All the doctors do in the public hospitals is write out prescriptions for pills that the people cannot afford to buy. And believe me, there are far, far, far too many guns.......

But I remember that it is really lovely by the Sound in the summertime, isn't it?

yup, we are even cranky in Gazcue. Even with electricity.

Have you ever heard of Circumstantial Ad Hominem?

Oh wait, according to your fallacious reasoning, we must all conclude that SantiagoDR knows nothing of what its like to live in the US since he lives in the DR. In fact, everything he says about the US is false due to his circumstances.

Nevermind anything else about him (his origin, where he has spent most of his life, where 90% of his family lives, how often in a year he may travel to his country and keep in touch with family members, acquaintances in the old country, where he invest his money, where he still owns properties, for how long each trip lasts, who he may know in such country, etc. etc. etc.).

Yes Mountainannie, I guess you're right.

There is no way that either him (or you for that matter) can possibly know what its like to live in your own birth/home country because, alas, you currently live somewhere else. That's like cutting all connections to the old country, nevermind everything else!

What a marvelous way of thinking! You should get a Nobel Prize or something along those line, just marvelous!

-NALs :tired:

 

[SantiagoDR]

Have you ever heard of Circumstantial Ad Hominem?

Oh wait, according to your fallacious reasoning, we must all conclude that SantiagoDR knows nothing of what its like to live in the US since he lives in the DR. In fact, everything he says about the US is false due to his circumstances.

Nevermind anything else about him (his origin, where he has spent most of his life, where 90% of his family lives, how often in a year he may travel to his country and keep in touch with family members, acquaintances in the old country, where he invest his money, where he still owns properties, for how long each trip lasts, who he may know in such country, etc. etc. etc.).

Yes Mountainannie, I guess you're right.

There is no way that either him (or you for that matter) can possibly know what its like to live in your own birth/home country because, alas, you currently live somewhere else. That's like cutting all connections to the old country, nevermind everything else!

What a marvelous way of thinking! You should get a Nobel Prize or something along those line, just marvelous!

-NALs :tired:

NALs,
When the going gets tough, jump on everyone else.

I spend more time in the U.S. in one year then you have probably spent in the D.R. in several years.

I am NOT a "visitor" to either country like "some" people.
I have a home in BOTH countries and live in BOTH countries EACH year.


SantiagoDR
I survived the National Blackout ? 2009

 

[lucas08]

It is possible to have private eletricity company that covers only certain areas? maybe the good areas where people actually pay electricity bill? if so, how come nobody has done it?

 

[donP]

Done

if so, how come nobody has done it?

Done.
Las Terrenas, Las Galeras, partly in El Lim?n (all Saman? province).

 

[cobraboy]

At least in the good ol' U.S. of A. sales tax is not anywhere near 16%.
And the price shown at the store does not include it.

Thus giving me something to bitch about every time I add it to the cost of the item. irate: :bandit: lol

Have the total taxes in the U.S. reached 28% yet on Telecommunications?
I don't know.

And I refer to the total tax percent (%) not the number of different taxes.


Sant[COLOR="Orange".]i[/COLOR][/SIZE][SIZE="3"]agoDR
I survived the D.R. taxes ? so far!

There aren't nearly as many taxes in the DR as there are in the U.S. Besides sales tax (7% in my home area), there are federal income taxes, state income taxes, city income taxes (which in NYC may bring the total income tax burden to nearly 58%!!!), and massive property taxes.

While the 16% (26% for resyaurants/bars) seems excessive, I'd be willing to wager the net tax burden is substantially lower in the DR than most of the First World. Many taxes are "imbedded"...you don't see them.

And, yes, depending on where you live in the states, there ARE significant taxes and fees assessed by gubmint on different forms of telecommunications.

This, however, does NOT excuse the DR gubmint for corruption and inefficiency. That's a whole different topic.

 

[jaguarbob]

Done.
Las Terrenas, Las Galeras, partly in El Lim?n (all Saman? province).

but service is interupted quite often in El Limon from LT electric company....and it is very expensive too.....I pay about 1500 a month for 2 tvs,computer. and 2 lightbulbs...no nivera...
bob

 

[mountainannie]

progressive taxes?

There aren't nearly as many taxes in the DR as there are in the U.S. Besides sales tax (7% in my home area), there are federal income taxes, state income taxes, city income taxes (which in NYC may bring the total income tax burden to nearly 58%!!!), and massive property taxes.

While the 16% (26% for resyaurants/bars) seems excessive, I'd be willing to wager the net tax burden is substantially lower in the DR than most of the First World. Many taxes are "imbedded"...you don't see them.

And, yes, depending on where you live in the states, there ARE significant taxes and fees assessed by gubmint on different forms of telecommunications.

This, however, does NOT excuse the DR gubmint for corruption and inefficiency. That's a whole different topic.

I can't argue that overall tax burden here is lower but also the overall services are lower as well....

People are more willing to pay their taxes when there are services that are delivered.

More willing to pay for police, garbage, sewer, water when those are delivered.

Many people in the States, as you know, move to areas with higher real estate taxes because they often have better school districts,,,, but here,,, well... as long as the people perceive that the government is just skimming the money off the top and not delivering services, they are not going to be willing to pay more taxes...it is a vicious circle.

 

[mountainannie]

the impressions one gives

Have you ever heard of Circumstantial Ad Hominem?

Oh wait, according to your fallacious reasoning, we must all conclude that SantiagoDR knows nothing of what its like to live in the US since he lives in the DR. In fact, everything he says about the US is false due to his circumstances.

Nevermind anything else about him (his origin, where he has spent most of his life, where 90% of his family lives, how often in a year he may travel to his country and keep in touch with family members, acquaintances in the old country, where he invest his money, where he still owns properties, for how long each trip lasts, who he may know in such country, etc. etc. etc.).

Yes Mountainannie, I guess you're right.

There is no way that either him (or you for that matter) can possibly know what its like to live in your own birth/home country because, alas, you currently live somewhere else. That's like cutting all connections to the old country, nevermind everything else!

What a marvelous way of thinking! You should get a Nobel Prize or something along those line, just marvelous!

-NALs :tired:

Nals

It simply never, ever, ever occurred to me that YOU who are SUCH a defender of the DR

who always is saying how perfect and wonderful everything is here

what advances the country has made

how great things are here

how glorious life is here

would actually be living in the USA

I was taken aback


STUNNED really

All this time I thought you were in the government, talking with cabinet ministers, using your advanced degree to help guide us along a to a better future

and now I learn that you are up there

in my home country

just cheering us along

and seeing the bright side

and saying good things about us

i am just disappointed, I guess

a little disillusioned

there is probably no Santa Claus either

but I am holding onto the Easter Bunny:bunny:

 

[SKing]

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
SHALENA

 

[caribmike]

Puerto Plata power gone since 11 am (Urb. Atlantica / close to Plaza Turisol / Brugal area)

 

[SteveS]

Blackouts: It's a cash problem
The vice president for generation of the AES Dominicana, Angel Guastaferro confirms what everyone knows by now. Despite allegations of technical difficulties at the generation plants being made by government electricity sector officials, Guastaferro says that the arrears of the government on the subsidy payments are behind the blackouts. He said that the arrears affect the cash flow of the power generation companies that resort to shutting these down. "At present, Los Mina V and VI, that contribute 180 megawatts, are out of service", he told the Listin Diario.

Can anyone honestly say that they didn't know this before and were ignoring the "out of service", "being cleaned", "Fuel Barge Stuck Somewhere" excuses?

 

[Expat13]

It is possible to have private eletricity company that covers only certain areas? maybe the good areas where people actually pay electricity bill? if so, how come nobody has done it?

A better plan may be, those who currently obey the law and pay their edesur bills; to job stop as well.
But! then we would be cut off, therefore being forced to live by use of inversols and generators, Oh wait, thats pretty much how most of us have been living this past month.

So let me get this straight;

pay my (increased by 50%) bill = still no power

or

dont pay= still no power.

I just figured this out, I am ripping up the factura.
I have now finally become culturally acclimatized to my environment.:squareeye