Official says houses for illegal aliens in Dominican territory ?illegal?

[LindseyKaufman]

Having worked in both the impoverished Haitian bateys and now with poor Dominicans, after reading all the posts in this thread, it seems to me that the issue is too complex to second guess one way or another.

One thing I don't see happening is Haitians working to empower themselves in the bateys. They value education, with each batey having one or more little Haitian school for kids to attend after they return from public school, but I don't see them scraping together their resources and becoming small entrepreneurs, working to get ahead. What I have seen is them waiting for the help from mission and charity groups......and I am talking about the areas behind Montellano in the small bateys.

No one in this world really gets ahead without the hunger to help themselves. Perhaps I am wrong to judge. Perhaps the Haitians have been beaten down too long to have the urge, yet that is what it is going to take, the willingness to do everything within their power to get Dominican papers, no matter what roadblocks the Dominican government workers place in their way.

It's not right for me to generalize, but my observations show me a level of comfort with life in the bateys just as it is. Perhaps as it is,it is still better than life in Haiti.

 

[jstarebel]

The regularitation plan was created for all the foreigners, is not a plan for haitians, even the truth is that almost 100%of the foreigners ilegal in the Dominican Republic are Haitians. The forist Mountain said that the papers are not translated in Creole, I have to tell her that is not translated in creole is because the plan is for Dominican Regularization so our oficial language is Spanish and this plan is not only for Haitians.

No country in the world make a regularization plan for free, Dominican goverment is taking the money from the pocket of all the tax payer and we are still the bad ones.

I think if the charity want to Help they all really should go to Haitian side and make the houses there, after the earthquake there are millions of people without homes, also help them to get their documentations so will be possible for them to apply. There is not country in the world that can give legal residence to some body that do not have any ID, in Haiti there are arround 6 millions of people that do not have identifications papers but those Haitians not body care about them but they want us as Dominians give them documents as Dominicans when our constitution says that just because you was born in Dominican you are not Dominican.

Ilegal Haitians came to here to use the Health care services for free, but not body cares when a Dominian as poor as the Haitians goes to a Hospital and can not get a bed just because is occuped by an Ilegal Haitian. We have millions of people as poor as the Haitians and we can not support all the ilegals Haitians using services that are suppose to be used for the poor Dominicans as poor as Haitians, the problem is not that they are Haitians the problems is that they are Ilegals, and we as a poor country can not handle putting in our shoulders also the Haitians problems.

European Union is going to build 2 hospitals in the border so now we have to make sure they make it in the Haitian side.

If all those internationals organization really wanted to help Haiti, they should go there and help them to create all the conditions that make them to grow in the same way we have been doing, creating jobs, making schools, hospitals and documentations as Haitians, give them the tools to grow, the same way we are doing Helping Haiti to develop their turism and with the reforestation.

and I say againg the problem is not they are Haitians, the problem is they are ilegals.

You could edit Dominicans for Americans, Haitian for Mexican, change the word "poor" to "tired of paying for this", post this post on any Mexico boarder state forum, and the majority of the Americans would be saying the same thing.

 

[Olly]

From Sosua News - as Ken would have said!

An Article of the house in Montellano/

Sos?a-News

Olly and the Team

 

[LindseyKaufman]

These houses being built are nothing to write home about. I have been inside some of them on various occasions. They are cramped block buildings with tin roofs. Typically the running water is a pipe outside the house (for when the water runs.) The houses I was in had no bathrooms or toilets. A couple of bare lightbulbs hang from the ceiling. Window openings may or may not be covered. The houses are unpainted both outside and in.

What these houses actually are is shelters. Most of the communities I have seen where they stand, are Haitian communities, but some of the houses have been built for Dominicans. In Caraballo (sp?), there is a Dominican section and a Haitian section.

To be fair to the Samaritan Foundation, I can say with almost 100% certainty that their intention was not to provide housing to people who are illegals, but rather to give shelter to those in extreme poverty, regardless of a person's nationality. They would consider their efforts Christian, not political.

Lindsey

 

[drstock]

And who's fault is that? Why aren't the NGO's and other groups helping out and seeing
that the regularization is written in creole or whatever language is understood to them?

The obstacles are in trying to get the documents required which has nothing to do with
the DR but in the difficulties obtaining them from their home countries. If there would
have been a problem on the DR side you can bet that the headlines would be screaming
discrimination. Plus various organizations including the UN said that they would be
supervising the process to make sure that Haitians were being treated fairly. So everything
must be going as planned.

Every country has their rules and regulations, everyone must abide by them whether or not in other
countries it may be easier.

I wish you would read what I have written here about my own personal experience and that of my employee.

The problem is NOT with obtaining documentation from the country of origin. Nor is it a problem of language. The problem is with the Dominican immigration people putting as many obstacles as possible in the way of people trying to complete what is supposedly a straightforward process.

I believe you are in the USA, so how can you know more than someone who lives here and actually has first hand experience of the situation?

 

[drstock]

I know two non-Haitians going through the regularisation process. Their lawyer sounds like a twit. One of the requirements for demonstrating links with the country lists a number of options, and the website quite clearly states that one of the options is enough. The list includes a letter from a sports or social club, school, church, etc. These people are not churchgoers yet the lawyer insists they have to get a letter from a local priest/pastor, when it is clear that a letter from one of the other community institutions on the list is acceptable.

It probably isn't the lawyer who's a twit. He is probably right is saying that the authorities will only accept that particular option from their own list of supposed alternatives.

 

[bob saunders]

I wish you would read what I have written here about my own personal experience and that of my employee.

The problem is NOT with obtaining documentation from the country of origin. Nor is it a problem of language. The problem is with the Dominican immigration people putting as many obstacles as possible in the way of people trying to complete what is supposedly a straightforward process.

I believe you are in the USA, so how can you know more than someone who lives here and actually has first hand experience of the situation?

There is without a doubt, some immigration officials making it harder for these illegal Haitians to become legal residents. I however know at least 4 Haitians that have become legal residents. In their cases they all came in legally , on Visas, one has support from the Catholic church and school here in Jarabacoa and the other three, the Evangelios. Several started the process long before the free process started and she paid quite a bit of money to lawyer and he ripped her off. It took her about 18 months to complete the process.

 

[Chirimoya]

It probably isn't the lawyer who's a twit. He is probably right is saying that the authorities will only accept that particular option from their own list of supposed alternatives.

I'll find out what they ended up doing.

 

[bronzeallspice]

I wish you would read what I have written here about my own personal experience and that of my employee.

The problem is NOT with obtaining documentation from the country of origin. Nor is it a problem of language. The problem is with the Dominican immigration people putting as many obstacles as possible in the way of people trying to complete what is supposedly a straightforward process.

I believe you are in the USA, so how can you know more than someone who lives here and actually has first hand experience of the situation?

I was not talking about you in particular(your situation). I did not quote you. I was speaking in
general because from reading the news, many Haitians were saying that they were having
difficulties obtaining documentation at the Haitian embassy, thus the protests and
demonstrations. So what you are saying is not true. Haitians are still having difficulties
obtaining documentation.

If there are so many obstacles, then why hasn't there been any complaints or
demonstrations or protests? Believe me, the NGO's and other org. would've seen to it.

Some just do not like the requirements or the amount of documents needed.

 

[bronzeallspice]

Haitians thwarted as they seek Dominican status

"Migrants from Haiti have long had a tough time in the Dominican Republic, but in this case their anger is largely directed at Haiti’s government, which has been slow to issue the needed documents amid its usual bureaucratic torpor and has been charging fees that are far higher than most people can afford. Haitians have staged several protests in recent weeks outside their government’s embassy in Santo Domingo over the issue."

"“In our view, the Haitian authorities have been somewhat irresponsible,” Charpentier said.

Read more: Haitians thwarted as they seek Dominican status - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter


When the regularization plan was presented to the Haitian gov't, UN and other
organizations none of them thought the process or requirements were grievious.
ALL agreed to it and no complaints were made then or now.

The DR is not to blame if someone is unable to get regularize. Not everyone will
qualify.

 

[Frank the Tank]

Is that a "For Sale" sign written on one of the houses?

 

[Frank the Tank]

Getting back to the houses.....the government sent representatives up to POP province, and says only TWO of about 1200 residents are Dominicans

Solo dos de los residentes en Los Algodones son dominicanos - DiarioLibre.com

 

[AlterEgo]

Today's Diario Libre has an article saying that the Canadian group bought the land for 2.1 million pesos. That says to me that they still own the land - so no one should be able to sell anything except them.

Google translate:
Canadian Foundation purchased the land in Montellano by RD $ 2.1 million
The plot belonged to a Dominican farmer

SANTO DOMINGO. Until January 2007, Luciano S?nchez Balbuena, a Dominican farmer, 69, held the title of the land on which the foundation Samaritan built 250 houses in Montellano. S?nchez Balbuena bought the land in 1996 to Dominican citizen Guarionex Gell Marmolejos by the sum of RD $ 200,000, and eleven years later sold it to the Foundation for RD $ 2, 100,000. In the records of the General Directorate of National Cadastre and Property Jurisdiction, certification of the sale of land of 44,020.44 square meters, data of July 22, 2009, and appears in the plot 94, Cadastral District 07 Book 0204, Folio 234, registration 1500006553, under the signature of the notary public Julio Antonio G?mez Morales. S?nchez relates that before building homes on the site Haitians and Dominicans residing, but then the Dominicans began to leave the area by the limitations they had. "The Dominicans were going, because at that time there were no conditions, no water, electricity, food, was a favor that foundation did, "he said to DL. "When the CEA (State Council of Sugar) broke that people were left there, and thank God that these foreigners came and did it for the good of them and us Dominicans too, because that was a batey with people who brought them from Balaguer times when they felt like it came and filled patanas of Haitians to Haiti, brought them to cut cane, and they finished the left botao not brought them to their destination, "he added. He expressed all Haitians who knows, referring to those who live there, are undocumented. "I know of one that has documents are all brought illegal cutting cane. They are very old there, with whom you spoke are the children and grandchildren, and old have died most. This gives rise to the boys and do not give papers do not give n?, most others have birth certificates "he said. The Haitians living in Montellano, defending their right to live in Dominican territory. They say they are descendants of generations that carry more than 40 and 50 years in the area.


Fundaci?n canadiense compr? los terrenos en Montellano por RD$2.1 millones - DiarioLibre.com

 

[Marcion]

My understanding (gleaned from comments made by a Dominican official) is that the directors of the charity/NGO have violated several laws regarding enabling illegal aliens and are now subject to arrest.

Are they planning a trip here, perhaps some of them are here now?

 

[bronzeallspice]

My understanding (gleaned from comments made by a Dominican official) is that the directors of the charity/NGO have violated several laws regarding enabling illegal aliens and are now subject to arrest.

Are they planning a trip here, perhaps some of them are here now?

It seems hard to believe that this group(directors included) was not aware of the current situation
in the DR concerning illegal Haitians when it made worldwide headlines.

They should not be building "shelters" for illegals as there are no political refugees as
stated. Shelters are for refugees.

 

[bronzeallspice]

Settlement for illegal aliens ‘national security threat: Top investigator

Santo Domingo.- National Investigations Dept. (DNI) director Sigfrido Pared Perez on Thursday said any settlement in the country built for people not properly documented is a threat to national security.

He said government agencies investigate the settlements and no international organization has a right to do so for illegal aliens. "Any settlement that is for illegals, with people who’re not documented, threatens national security and is an affront to the nation."

Pared responded when asked about the construction of around 250 houses built by the Canada-based foundation The Samaritan for undocumented Haitian immigrants, in the village of Montellano, Puerto Plata province.

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/lo...ens-national-security-threat-Top-investigator

 

[bronzeallspice]

My understanding (gleaned from comments made by a Dominican official) is that the directors of the charity/NGO have violated several laws regarding enabling illegal aliens and are now subject to arrest.

Are they planning a trip here, perhaps some of them are here now?

Since they own the land someone has to be in the DR and be held accountable or the
property can be forfeited as it was acquired for purposes that violate the Constitution.

 

[LindseyKaufman]

It seems hard to believe that this group(directors included) was not aware of the current situation
in the DR concerning illegal Haitians when it made worldwide headlines.

They should not be building "shelters" for illegals as there are no political refugees as
stated. Shelters are for refugees.

Bronzeallspice, these houses have been there for at least 10 years.....since I moved here and maybe before. I don't think it is that the construction has recently or is currently taking place. I am on neither side of the fence in this discussion, but I am perplexed why the Dominican government would build a school in a Haitian settlement and then go on to recently make improvements on that school, knowing they were doing so for illegal Haitians.

Also, just to correct what I believe is some mis-information, these settlements are not just behind Montellano. They are elsewhere on the North Coast.

And in reference to 2 of the settlements, they are so far off the beaten path, any Dominican living in the houses built by the foundation would have a hard time getting a job, as the transportation costs to Montellano or beyond would eat most the day's wages. While the cane fields were being farmed, the location made sense. Now, no.

Lindsey

 

[bronzeallspice]

Bronzeallspice, these houses have been there for at least 10 years.....since I moved here and maybe before. I don't think it is that the construction has recently or is currently taking place. I am on neither side of the fence in this discussion, but I am perplexed why the Dominican government would build a school in a Haitian settlement and then go on to recently make improvements on that school, knowing they were doing so for illegal Haitians.

Also, just to correct what I believe is some mis-information, these settlements are not just behind Montellano. They are elsewhere on the North Coast.

And in reference to 2 of the settlements, they are so far off the beaten path, any Dominican living in the houses built by the foundation would have a hard time getting a job, as the transportation costs to Montellano or beyond would eat most the day's wages. While the cane fields were being farmed, the location made sense. Now, no.

Lindsey

It seems to be recent as the land was purchased in 2009, so how soon after that they began to build
is not stated. Also the article posted by AE states that Dominicans originally were living there (Montellano) and they left. Yes, they also purchased land in other areas.

But we will have to wait and see if officials clarify this issue further.

Lindsey, I know that you have been fair by your comments. I understand your point of you.

 

[mountainannie]

From Sosua News - as Ken would have said!

An Article of the house in Montellano/

Sos?a-News

Olly and the Team

the foundation appears to have taken down both its web page and its facebook page.

I wonder if they are going to go after the Batay Relief Alliance next?
They are the really REALLY big outside agitators

here is what they say about the batayes

The Dominican Republic is home to approximately 230 State-owned bateyes that once formed the economic backbone of this small Caribbean nation. The bateyes are segregated rural slum communities built by the government on sugar cane plantations to house Haitian migrant sugar cane cutters. Estimates of the population living and working on these bateyes vary greatly, ranging from 200,000 to over 1 million, and accounting for anywhere between 7-12% of the total population of the Dominican Republic. Despite their size and critical role in the Dominican economy, batey populations suffer inordinately from economic isolation, extreme poverty, and food insecurity. Today the batey population is mixed between poor Haitians and their Dominican descendants and Dominicans.

Batey2The Batey habitat is made mostly of precariously built government quarters ? or tiny, drafty shacks built with mud and split canes, often next to large dumps or open sewers. The small rooms the population shares often lack basic hygiene. In some bateyes, there are no sewage systems, electricity, running water, trash collection or paved streets?only ditches filled with muddy, parasite-ridden water and garbage heaps with rats, flies, mosquitoes, and wild dogs. Sanitation facilities or latrines are as minimal as can be allowed for human existence. These shortcomings, unfortunately, create conditions for diseases where they are limited medical dispensaries or drugs. Life expectancy is very low when compared to the statistics for the Dominican Republic. Teenage prostitution and pregnancy complete the picture, as these unemployed young women find the only ?work? available. The upshot is a meteoric rise in the spread of AIDS, and a very high infant mortality rate. For those who cannot travel to city hospitals, barely trained midwives, working in less than sterile environments, sometimes deliver the children. Childhood illnesses, including diarrhea, fever, respiratory infections, measles, parasitic ailments or malnutrition plague them right up into adulthood. The Bateyes ? Batey Relief Alliance