Official says houses for illegal aliens in Dominican territory ?illegal?

[bronzeallspice]

It seems to be recent as the land was purchased in 2009, so how soon after that they began to build
is not stated. Also the article posted by AE states that Dominicans originally were living there (Montellano) and they left. Yes, they also purchased land in other areas.

But we will have to wait and see if officials clarify this issue further.

Lindsey, I know that you have been fair by your comments. I understand your point of you.

Lindsey, it seems to be there were homes at the time you stated and when the land was bought
by the Samaritan group they renovated and/ or built additional houses. In other areas too.


My question is if these are 3rd and 4th generation illegal Haitians why didn't they
apply for the naturalization? There was a window of 6 month opportunity.

Now what's going to happen is that ALL of them will say they are 3rd and 4th generation
as the time nears. But they must prove it.

 

[PeterInBrat]

Good point. Perhaps what they need is advocacy to know what their rights are and if they are actually entitled to be there. I wonder what percentage would be literate if they do not have access to schools.. It's not like they're getting updates in the cyber cafes. I expect many have no paperwork at all or the means to replace it.

 

[Abuela]

Although the foundation site has been removed from the internet this map of their Sosua projects gives a frame of reference of the buildings location.
http://www.thesamaritanfoundationdr.com/sfdr_villagesXY.swf

 

[Criss Colon]

The so called "Regularization Plan" is just a farce by the DR to get the international community off it's back.
Mauricio, it is NOT like renewing a "Residencia".
My high school friend has lived and worked here for nearly 20 years. Owns property, meets ALL the requirements, but STILL, after more than 6 months, innumerable notarized documents, and trips to the office in Santiago, & SD, all he gets is, "You need One More Document"!
Each office gives him different requirements.
I have two Haitian maids, (Because THEY WORK not loaf like Dominicanas!!!).
They are both undocumented, yet travel back and forth to Haiti every few months.
I asked how this was possible???
They said you pay the bus company 1,000 pesos, or more, depending how many times you have made the trip, repeaters get a discount!!!!
Then when you pass the boarder check point, you have to give the border agent at least 300 pesos, again, MORE if they don't recognize you, EVEN if you have the proper documents, you must pay!!!
If you refuse, they take you off the bus to wait while they check your paperwork, and your bus leaves for SD!!!!

And ANYONE believes Dominicans want to"Regularize" their Haitian brothers and sister???
What's all the fuss about, I can't tell them apart anyway!!!!

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC


ps., my maids kids all go to public schools here.
If you can pay the "Bribe" they go!!!!!!

 

[mountainannie]

Lindsey, it seems to be there were homes at the time you stated and when the land was bought
by the Samaritan group they renovated and/ or built additional houses. In other areas too.


My question is if these are 3rd and 4th generation illegal Haitians why didn't they
apply for the naturalization? There was a window of 6 month opportunity.

Now what's going to happen is that ALL of them will say they are 3rd and 4th generation
as the time nears. But they must prove it.

ok,, Bronzie.. just for an exercise.. you .. a literate Dominican with access to the internet.. go an find the plan for regularization for those who were born here

try it

and you will see why they have not done it

 

[mountainannie]

sorry, Bronzie.. I was being flip.. here is the plan http://mip.gob.do/Portals/0/docs/Pl...Nacional de Regularización de Extranjeros.pdf

so,, say you are, in fact, the child of the Bataye.. say even a grandchild,, you have to first present a birth certificate which most do not have since they cost money here and are not regularly given out by hospitals.


So even if there is still a record of your mother, or your father or grandmother or whatever.. maybe they were in another Bataye? and where do you go? You were not born in Haiti, neither, for the sake of my argument / since really this whole thing should have been about the Haitians who have roots here for generations.. not the recent immigrants.. you will have to pay to get these records.


there are other ways to get this proof with priests and neighbors.. and they SAY that they will even take papers without these but perhaps not in 90 days

anyway, there are a lot of papers to get right and most of them require that you have money and show that you do

Note also that the first thing that you are required to do is give up your name, address, phone number and email if you have it. So that means that the police will have it..

I do not know of any NGO which is helping the Haitians. Centro Bono was doing some preliminary approval of papers but seems to have stopped.

I am very sad and disappointed over this. I told folks over on the Haiti list serv that I really thought that the Dominicans were well intentioned and this was going to be a success. I wrote a personal note to Edwidge Dandicat asking her not to take any more public stands against the DR (after she took one) (we know one another in cyber space to the extent that I have her email and she answers mine)

But sadly, I think that biggest stumbling block has been the petty mindedness of the officials who are doing the process, who, according to the OIM, have the discretion to say yeah or nay. Either they have been acting on their own, or they are following directions which sabatoge the intent of the law -- which, at its base,was not to regularize immigrants so much as to put an end to the ongoing issue of stateless persons which the Constitutional Court ruling has made even more firm. That has always been the pressure that has been brought against the DR in international circles and international tribunals.

The fact that this legislation contains the provision that those born here have only 90 days while those who have immigrated have 18 months shows a disregard for the concerns of the international community. The fact that the DR has now withdrawn from the InterAmerican Court signals also that it has no regard for international opinion.

I am not clear if Dominicans are not clear about the international concerns or are simply just frightened by the influx. Of course, there are always some who are for open borders. And perhaps when I say "international concerns" I just talking about what I think are the best legal cases.. for those who are descendants of those who were brought here against their will,

anyway.. it is really quite disgraceful that so many people have gone through so much effort to comply with with a complicated law and so few have been approved. I can only hope that it will get better in the remaining months. I had hoped that this "regularization amnesty" would be something that the DR could have been proud of in the face of international criticism.. but.. well.. not so much so far...

 

[mountainannie]

here is a recent portrait of Bataye life Bat?y 106: Portraits from a Dominican Sugar Cane Plantation?|?Erica Simone

so how are these folks going to have a letter from a bank? a certificate that they have bought more than 20k of possessions? letters from schools that their children are in constant attendance?

These are the people that cut the sugar cane for the Fanjuls..for the Vicinis (also of Listin) for big sugar, for Dominos .. for the Dominican Republic... there is certainly international press on this issue Labor Dept. finds bitterness in sugar workers' lives helped a bit by the fact that the DR so tries to keep it OUT of the press by trying to ban the showing of The Price of Sugar and filing defamation law suits The Price of Sugar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most Dominicans do not see this side of the DR.. they do not cut cane.. and sure, there are ALSO Dominicans who live in this sort of poverty, I have seen that.. BUT they are not KEPT there by not having papers.

Now, I did read, I think , that the Vincini's were one of the first one's up in getting papers filed for about 600 of their workers.. But REALLY they need to have papers for ALL of their workers..isn't that just a basic?

 

[AlterEgo]

Annie, all this information is well and good, but has nothing to do with building homes for illegal Haitians. It belongs in the regularization thread.

I realize you're trying to show WHY they are illegal, but that's not the topic of this thread.

 

[LindseyKaufman]

Mountainannie, accountability must happen on both fronts. Haitians held captive here must actively seek nationalization. I don't see this happening. And the DR gov must accept the role they played in initially bringing the Haitians here to work in the cane fields, opening the borders after the Earthquake, giving them education and health care, and willing to hire them for the jobs that Dominicans will not do. Either they want them or they don't. They cannot want illegals when it is convenient. And if they don't want them, then they should follow through and make it clear that they cannot access education or health care.

The whole approach to the problem and the designed solution, regularization, is too vague and wishy-washy for me.

Lindsey

 

[LindseyKaufman]

And why have Haitians not actively sought to be regularized? 1.) They are uneducated. 2.) They have no resources to get what is needed. 3.) They are comfortable living in the bateys with the Haitian community. It has become their own small world. 4.) They are intimidated and scared by the process. 5.) They consider themselves Haitian and do not care to be Dominicanized, even though that involves lack or services and risks. 6.) Although it has become more expensive and dangerous, it is still possible for Haitians to move across the border. There are still Dominicans willing to take the bribes to make this happen.

From my experience when I worked with this population, that is why you do not see the flood of Haitians following through on the process.

Lindsey

 

[andy_089]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKQiLXGVXns

This is a video about the project

 

[mountainannie]

Mountainannie, accountability must happen on both fronts. Haitians held captive here must actively seek nationalization. I don't see this happening. And the DR gov must accept the role they played in initially bringing the Haitians here to work in the cane fields, opening the borders after the Earthquake, giving them education and health care, and willing to hire them for the jobs that Dominicans will not do. Either they want them or they don't. They cannot want illegals when it is convenient. And if they don't want them, then they should follow through and make it clear that they cannot access education or health care.

The whole approach to the problem and the designed solution, regularization, is too vague and wishy-washy for me.

Lindsey

I agree with you on this. The Capital is full of Haitians working.. they push all the little carts on the street now, do most of the construction. I have not worked in the Batayes as you have so have to bow to your experience but, as you say, if you get education and health care and even jobs, without papers, what incentive is there to get the papers?

The hospitals are tricky since yes, the maternity care does seem to really attract mothers and the Dominicans do an outstanding job of caring for the mothers, even bringing troubled cases into the capital quickly by ambulance. Many of those mothers are naturally going to stay.. if they possibly can.. why not? It would be hard to ask Dominican doctors NOT to do this .. but..

it is a good idea to have the hospitals built on the border.

There are just so many issues inside this one. Most of the NGOs who help are Christian, and they are not going to teach family planning which is definitely needed.

After watching the video, it is hard to fault the good work of these people.. except perhaps that the DR needs to keep a closer rein on the Missionaries.. and other NGOs.. lest it become like Haiti which is known as "The Republic of NGOs"

and, as we can see from the example of Haiti, living off the charity of others does not make for a healthy country since aid only continues if you stay poor.

 

[bob saunders]

And why have Haitians not actively sought to be regularized? 1.) They are uneducated. 2.) They have no resources to get what is needed. 3.) They are comfortable living in the bateys with the Haitian community. It has become their own small world. 4.) They are intimidated and scared by the process. 5.) They consider themselves Haitian and do not care to be Dominicanized, even though that involves lack or services and risks. 6.) Although it has become more expensive and dangerous, it is still possible for Haitians to move across the border. There are still Dominicans willing to take the bribes to make this happen.

From my experience when I worked with this population, that is why you do not see the flood of Haitians following through on the process.

Lindsey

Everything you said make total sense, and that rare on this site.

 

[bob saunders]

Mountainannie, accountability must happen on both fronts. Haitians held captive here must actively seek nationalization. I don't see this happening. And the DR gov must accept the role they played in initially bringing the Haitians here to work in the cane fields, opening the borders after the Earthquake, giving them education and health care, and willing to hire them for the jobs that Dominicans will not do. Either they want them or they don't. They cannot want illegals when it is convenient. And if they don't want them, then they should follow through and make it clear that they cannot access education or health care.

The whole approach to the problem and the designed solution, regularization, is too vague and wishy-washy for me.

Lindsey

There is no job Dominicans won't do, it's all about price. I hire a contractor to clear land, build fences, houses...etc and he has a regular crew , two Dominicans and three Haitians, or two and two , depending on the amount of work. All the Haitians have Cedulas and are legal. They all do basically the same work, and observing them I wouldn't say one nationality works hader or smarter than the other.
The main fault, as I see it lays with the Haitian government , for laying their problems, mainly created by their lack of a functioning country at the feet of the Dominicans and you cn add the UN for not recognizing openly that these are two different countries with two different peoples.

 

[Chirimoya]

Update on my non-Haitian friends going through the regularisation process - they were sent back five times for not having the right documentation. Turns out their lawyer was not being a twit, but was prepared for the reality of the situation where the office insists the applicants submit every single document on the list, even though the website says one document was enough.

If educated, well-connected people are finding it a near impossible chore, imagine what it must be like for your illiterate, powerless batey dwellers. Especially as their lawyer fast-tracks my friends past the long lines of waiting Haitians, wearily resigned to the situation.

Interesting to note that if you are a member of a non-Christian religion or have no religion, they still won't consider you without a letter from the local priest or pastor. My friends, who are Catholic by birth but not churchgoers, did not get very far with the parish priest and ended up paying an evangelical pastor to break one of the ten commandments.

 

[MikeFisher]

The so called "Regularization Plan" is just a farce by the DR to get the international community off it's back.
Mauricio, it is NOT like renewing a "Residencia".
My high school friend has lived and worked here for nearly 20 years. Owns property, meets ALL the requirements, but STILL, after more than 6 months, innumerable notarized documents, and trips to the office in Santiago, & SD, all he gets is, "You need One More Document"!
Each office gives him different requirements.
I have two Haitian maids, (Because THEY WORK not loaf like Dominicanas!!!).
They are both undocumented, yet travel back and forth to Haiti every few months.
I asked how this was possible???
They said you pay the bus company 1,000 pesos, or more, depending how many times you have made the trip, repeaters get a discount!!!!
Then when you pass the boarder check point, you have to give the border agent at least 300 pesos, again, MORE if they don't recognize you, EVEN if you have the proper documents, you must pay!!!
If you refuse, they take you off the bus to wait while they check your paperwork, and your bus leaves for SD!!!!

And ANYONE believes Dominicans want to"Regularize" their Haitian brothers and sister???
What's all the fuss about, I can't tell them apart anyway!!!!

CCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC


ps., my maids kids all go to public schools here.
If you can pay the "Bribe" they go!!!!!!

so your maids have ties to Haiti, still, they are not 3rd generation grandchildren of illegals, born in Dr etc? they speak their creole/native language and have family they travel to in Haiti on regular bases, so i say they can get their documentations and passports etc from their government while there on the other side of the border, and with that they can apply for a DR residency like every other foreign resident who wanna stay here.
the big problem with missing documentations is for the vast amount of Haitian childs/grandchilds who are Born here in DR, born by illegal residing Parents. they have zero paperwork from their homecountry Haiti, heck, they may never been in Haiti in the first place, never in their lifes, they would not know anybody there and they could not tell you any prefered Haitian location/hometown to be deported to in case of deportation. and of those so many do not have any proper documentation from the DR/their Birthcountry, to get a birth certificate here in DR at the real place where they really been born they would need documentations of their parents, at least the Mother which gave birth to them, but that mother will not have any documentations 'cause she gave birth as a illegal immigrant, that mother may be long dead or live elsewhere out of sight.
they do not have it easy to bring such required paperwork, and there are many different scenarios about different kind of groups of Humans who are here undocumented, of Haitian decent/born here or born there etc etc. impossible to throw just one line and tell All to walk the same line.
but i agree to the general consense that the big mouthed international community can Not blame everything on the DR, if any, as the indocumented Haitians/half Haitians/DR born childs of Haitians walking the streets of Higuey in large numbers today, have for very most part nothing to do with the generations of ex sugarcane workers in the area, most of those found that way on the streets here are simple illegals who paid their way over the border, or the children of illegals who paid their way over the border and then gave birth here, and the DR government can not be blamed to be responsible to provide all of them with legal DR Documents/cedulas/passports andwhatsoever.
building houses for Haitian refugees in the DR my arse, that's a joke and could only be done by the souvereign government of the DR. build such refugee homes in Ottawa or DC, but not on foreign soil. best you would build it in Haiti anyways, but there their own government would tax you the building materials and would cash from your constructors Tourist Visa Fees to be allowed to come in and bring the Haitian Government some money.
i remember well after the earthqauke, when the small local Fleemarkets in the DR started to be filled to the top with good quality clothing(Hey, including great Fishing Shirts, lol) which the International community sent to Haiti as charity. it sure was Not Dominican Traders who went to Haiti to steel that and bring it to DR to be sold here.
a person is from Haitian decent, or better, a child of Haitian parents, heck, who else than the Haitian Government is in charge to document such person properly?
what the DR is doing for such a very large number of illegals(compare their number to the number of DR Citizens in the country, quiet a Number!!) is a huge afford and costs a heck of taxmoney. when Obama is talking about 5 millions of Mexicans, what's that of a small fraction compared to the US Citizen numbers?
to see the Haitian part in DR, look on the East, this Tourist Mekka Punta Cana. it is said that around 120.000 people live in te community Veron/Bavaro, it is also said that 70+% of them are Haitians, with of course most of them not really documented.
thats quiet some numbers other countries by far do not have to deal with in comparison to their own citizen's numbers.
most of the illegals in the country will finally Not pass the requirements to obtains DR documenattions/papers, but i guess that was clear from the beginning, so then by mid summer 2015 the costy cattling and sending home campaigns may begin.
will be interesting to see/hear what the other countries will come up with speechs then, 'cause none of them should throw a first stone, and til now none of them is assisting the Haitian Government to document Their Citizens.

Mike

 

[Riva_31]

I want to make an excersice and some body can tell me how many papers has to get a Dominican in the same conditions as the Haitian? the diference is that those ones I talk has real Dominican rooth, they have to get like 10 diferent papers to obtain a birth certificate as Dominican, so I dont think we are making things dificult for ilegals.

Dominicans are feeling mad because for Ilegals everything is more easy and for free.

 

[bronzeallspice]

Interior Minister says there are four quarters of illegal Haitians in Puerto Plata
Commission report issued this afternoon with the total occupant

SD. The Minister of Interior and Police, Jos? Ram?n Fadul, revealed this morning that four districts of illegal Haitian raised in the area of Puerto Plata, was determined according to the commission investigating the construction of illegal settlements in this area. " The problem is not the houses that have been made, is that they are to illegals. The first thing you should do (the NGO that built) is to legalize these people, "said Fadul, interviewed in the Foreign Ministry, after participating in the" Forum Dominican Diplomacy ", attended by consuls and ambassadors of the country. On January 6, Diario Libre published a story on the settlement in Montellano, Puerto Plata , built by the Canadian NGO Samaritans, to benefit illegal Haitians in the country. There reside around 1,200 illegal Haitians. On the total number of Haitians living in these four districts, Fadul said it will be this afternoon when they receive the final report of the commission, with the number of residents.

He said these Haitians will be given the opportunity for those that can to apply for the Regularization Plan, and those that do not guaranteed they will "return home".

The Regularization Plan expires on June 1, and those who fail to enter will be returned to their country of origin, as officials say.

Ministro de Interior dice son cuatro los barrios de haitianos ilegales en Puerto Plata - DiarioLibre.com

 

[bronzeallspice]

Government upheaval in Haiti affects success of Legalization Plan

The political turmoil in Haiti, including the Prime Minister's resignation, changes in Michel Martelly's cabinet and the continued postponement of the congressional elections, has diluted the effects of the National Legalization Plan. The Plan's success depends on the Haitian government providing its citizens with basic documentation.

In an interview on Uno+Uno TV show with journalist Juan Bolivar Diaz yesterday, Thursday 22 January 2015, Haitian ambassador in the DR Fritz Cineas admitted the problems his country's authorities have experienced in delivering the documents requested for Haitians to legalize their status in the Dominican Republic. He said that financial problems in Haiti have prevented the government from opening offices for issuing documentation to Haitian citizens in Santo Domingo and the four cities where Haiti has consulates in the Dominican Republic. He said that as a result the Santo Domingo mission has been swamped and has not been able to deliver.

Lentitud en Hait? retrasa el Plan de Regularizaci?n RD -

Source: DR1 news