- Thread starter rtejeda
- Start date
P.L.D- Talking about liberation? What liberation?
Communists sure do have a weird way of introducing themselves!
In my opinion, all communists do is give partial information on current realities in order for them to gain support from the public. Look at Cuba, after all the anti-capitalism BS, anti-elites BS, and anti-progress BS... today Cuba is being ruled by a tiny elite of communists who were anti-elites prior to the revolution!
Coincidence? Hardly!
Those people hated the former elites for one reason only and that was envy of the power and wealth elites often times hold. Today, those envy non-comformists are the only people living "well" in Cuba... :surprised
rTejeda is nothing more than a communist, plain and simple!
At least he's an easy one to detect. Nowadays, Communists and Socialists are hard to detect.
They are found in many organizations and groups of people, such as the environmentalists, the human rights organizations, so on and so forth.
While every person in those organizations are NOT communists, many of them sure are with their hatred of capitalism and elites still brewing as it has for centuries.
For that reason they take pleasure in destroying projects, economic agreements, and such. Why? Because by doing that they are "taking the power away from the elites and giving it to themselves".
Funny how they always say "the world has more poor people today than ever" and they always fail to mention that even the poorest of the poor today lives with material possessions that not even the richest of the rich in past times had!
Case in point, earlier this year a report concluded that over 90% of Dominican households actually have a television! This is only one of many examples of material goods which once were the domain of the rich and now even the poor has and consider a "need" and sign of upward mobility.
All those pasolas and motorcycles have replaced plenty of horses and donkeys.
Spending a time telling age old stories has been replaced by watching novelas and/or a baseball game live from the USA at the nearest colmado or sports bar.
How come the communists never mention those things?
For the Dominicans and expatriates who have been in the DR for a long time, do you remember the uproar that was created when Balaguer wanted to build the Avenida 27 de Febrero?
People left and right were screaming that the country and the city did not needed that.
Remember the uproar that was created when Leonel wanted to expand the 27 de Febrero and build tunnels and expressways along its route?
People left and right were screaming that the country and the city did not needed that.
Some of the biggest critics were people who probably are/were communists in their hearts.
Well take a look at 27 de Febrero any day of the week? Would anyone deny the importance that avenue has on the transit of the city?
What happened to the cries and "worries" of the communists? I thought those projects only was suppose to benefit the elites?
Why are the masses benefiting from faster and better transit from the Ozama to Avenida Luperon and beyond?
I mean, these projects was something the "elites" wanted and it could not possibly be that what the elites wants would benefit the masses? I mean, that's what the communists constantly tell us, that elites are evil.
If they are so evil and what they want does not benefits the masses, then why are so many normal people benefiting from previous projects?
Now the cries are against the metro. Communists, go to Cuba and leave the DR for people who really want to cause change, positive change for all, not just a change on who runs the country!
If you want to change the country for the better, then become a progressive part of that society. Join organizations that benefits people, NOT POLITICAL PARTIES WITH HIDDEN MOTIVES OF GAINING POWER FOR THEMSELVES.
If you want a better country, START TO BELIEVE THAT CHANGE IS POSSIBLE THROUGH THE SYSTEM NOW IN PLACE, RATHER THAN WANTING TO RISK EVERYTHING ON A RADICAL CHANGE THAT HAS NOTHING TO SHOW.
If you want a better country, DO YOUR PART AS A CITIZEN TO BETTER THE COUNTRY'S CURRENT SYSTEM AND STOP COMPLAINING.
-NALs
In my opinion, all communists do is give partial information on current realities in order for them to gain support from the public. Look at Cuba, after all the anti-capitalism BS, anti-elites BS, and anti-progress BS... today Cuba is being ruled by a tiny elite of communists who were anti-elites prior to the revolution!
Coincidence? Hardly!
Those people hated the former elites for one reason only and that was envy of the power and wealth elites often times hold. Today, those envy non-comformists are the only people living "well" in Cuba... :surprised
rTejeda is nothing more than a communist, plain and simple!
At least he's an easy one to detect. Nowadays, Communists and Socialists are hard to detect.
They are found in many organizations and groups of people, such as the environmentalists, the human rights organizations, so on and so forth.
While every person in those organizations are NOT communists, many of them sure are with their hatred of capitalism and elites still brewing as it has for centuries.
For that reason they take pleasure in destroying projects, economic agreements, and such. Why? Because by doing that they are "taking the power away from the elites and giving it to themselves".
Funny how they always say "the world has more poor people today than ever" and they always fail to mention that even the poorest of the poor today lives with material possessions that not even the richest of the rich in past times had!
Case in point, earlier this year a report concluded that over 90% of Dominican households actually have a television! This is only one of many examples of material goods which once were the domain of the rich and now even the poor has and consider a "need" and sign of upward mobility.
All those pasolas and motorcycles have replaced plenty of horses and donkeys.
Spending a time telling age old stories has been replaced by watching novelas and/or a baseball game live from the USA at the nearest colmado or sports bar.
How come the communists never mention those things?
For the Dominicans and expatriates who have been in the DR for a long time, do you remember the uproar that was created when Balaguer wanted to build the Avenida 27 de Febrero?
People left and right were screaming that the country and the city did not needed that.
Remember the uproar that was created when Leonel wanted to expand the 27 de Febrero and build tunnels and expressways along its route?
People left and right were screaming that the country and the city did not needed that.
Some of the biggest critics were people who probably are/were communists in their hearts.
Well take a look at 27 de Febrero any day of the week? Would anyone deny the importance that avenue has on the transit of the city?
What happened to the cries and "worries" of the communists? I thought those projects only was suppose to benefit the elites?
Why are the masses benefiting from faster and better transit from the Ozama to Avenida Luperon and beyond?
I mean, these projects was something the "elites" wanted and it could not possibly be that what the elites wants would benefit the masses? I mean, that's what the communists constantly tell us, that elites are evil.
If they are so evil and what they want does not benefits the masses, then why are so many normal people benefiting from previous projects?
Now the cries are against the metro. Communists, go to Cuba and leave the DR for people who really want to cause change, positive change for all, not just a change on who runs the country!
If you want to change the country for the better, then become a progressive part of that society. Join organizations that benefits people, NOT POLITICAL PARTIES WITH HIDDEN MOTIVES OF GAINING POWER FOR THEMSELVES.
If you want a better country, START TO BELIEVE THAT CHANGE IS POSSIBLE THROUGH THE SYSTEM NOW IN PLACE, RATHER THAN WANTING TO RISK EVERYTHING ON A RADICAL CHANGE THAT HAS NOTHING TO SHOW.
If you want a better country, DO YOUR PART AS A CITIZEN TO BETTER THE COUNTRY'S CURRENT SYSTEM AND STOP COMPLAINING.
-NALs
My previous message also goes to those anti-globalizers as well.
They hate globalization so much that they use globalization itself in order to commit their vandalisms and mass demonstrations worldwide.
Otherwise, how is it possible that so many people could congregate where ever the international financial organizations are having their free trade talks?
With out using modern technology and communication systems the anti-globalizers won't be as efficient and quick to do their anti-capitalism and anti-progress demonstrations.
And yet, modern technology and communication is a product of the very system they hate!
They wear ready to wear clothing.... thanks to globalization.
They eat ready to cook food... thanks to globalization.
They record their messages and distribute them via the internet... thanks to globalization.
They use electronics.... thanks to globalization.
They live a comfortable lifestyle... thanks to globalization.
Everything anti-globalizers do and acquire is all attributed to globalization itself.
And what do they do all of that for? To spill verbal diarrhea against the very system that has made their life easier and is increasing standards of living around the world!
What a bunch of hypocrites each and every single one of them!
-NALs
They hate globalization so much that they use globalization itself in order to commit their vandalisms and mass demonstrations worldwide.
Otherwise, how is it possible that so many people could congregate where ever the international financial organizations are having their free trade talks?
With out using modern technology and communication systems the anti-globalizers won't be as efficient and quick to do their anti-capitalism and anti-progress demonstrations.
And yet, modern technology and communication is a product of the very system they hate!
They wear ready to wear clothing.... thanks to globalization.
They eat ready to cook food... thanks to globalization.
They record their messages and distribute them via the internet... thanks to globalization.
They use electronics.... thanks to globalization.
They live a comfortable lifestyle... thanks to globalization.
Everything anti-globalizers do and acquire is all attributed to globalization itself.
And what do they do all of that for? To spill verbal diarrhea against the very system that has made their life easier and is increasing standards of living around the world!
What a bunch of hypocrites each and every single one of them!
-NALs
As for McCarthy's motives.... who knows?!qgrande said:
I'm just tired of asking the same questions to all these people and not one of them ever answering them in a way that they don't contradict at a later time.
Look at rtejeda's introduction, his basic premise is this: "Dominican people trust in me, because I know how to do things right!"
Now tell me, how much different is that from every single other politician the DR has had?
Not much if you ask me.
You know the old addage, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck.... well do I really need to finish this?
-NALs
Okay Mc Carthy I mean Nal's,lmao, can you tell me anything about this PED party? I wasn't aware of them and I would love to know who the leaders are and what their platform is.
Rick
Rick
I guess for once I'm going to support Nals 100%!
He, in his explosion of verbage, has exposed the root element of the Communist philosophy. That of complete and absolute control of EVERYTHING and they have the audacity to say it is the to the benefit of the People. HOGWASH!! Their rhetoric is directed to the "unwashed masses" who haven't the education nor the understanding of economics and finance to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Communism is the chaff of the harvest and not the wheat germ.
Any country withour a tremendous amount of natural resources to begn with cannot survive even mild Socialism, much less the full blown economy necessary under Communism.
Countries like Venezuela, with their vast resevoirs of petroleum can afford to be socialists, but the DR has demonstrated the opposite effect through it's subsidizing of the cooking gas, the electricity, etc. because it doesn't have these products in their natural resource catalog nor do they have the educational infrastructure to support the needs of the communist philosophy.
Cuba today, is still primarily agrarian in nature. Very little industrial accomplishments have been in evidence since Castro took over some 40-odd years ago. To my way of thinking he heads a "Failed State" in every sense of the words. The people still live from hand to mouth. Castro and company live high on the hog while their people live in marginal poverty.
Nuff said!!!
Texas Bill
He, in his explosion of verbage, has exposed the root element of the Communist philosophy. That of complete and absolute control of EVERYTHING and they have the audacity to say it is the to the benefit of the People. HOGWASH!! Their rhetoric is directed to the "unwashed masses" who haven't the education nor the understanding of economics and finance to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Communism is the chaff of the harvest and not the wheat germ.
Any country withour a tremendous amount of natural resources to begn with cannot survive even mild Socialism, much less the full blown economy necessary under Communism.
Countries like Venezuela, with their vast resevoirs of petroleum can afford to be socialists, but the DR has demonstrated the opposite effect through it's subsidizing of the cooking gas, the electricity, etc. because it doesn't have these products in their natural resource catalog nor do they have the educational infrastructure to support the needs of the communist philosophy.
Cuba today, is still primarily agrarian in nature. Very little industrial accomplishments have been in evidence since Castro took over some 40-odd years ago. To my way of thinking he heads a "Failed State" in every sense of the words. The people still live from hand to mouth. Castro and company live high on the hog while their people live in marginal poverty.
Nuff said!!!
Texas Bill
Texas Bill said:
So why are the masses not being educated? So that they are able to separate the wheat from the chaff ...
Maintain Status Quo, Chris, Maintain Status Quo.
Leonel has proven that he, for all his rhetoric, is interested only in enhancing his own Vanity and personal agenda.
In effect, he is no better than Hipolito in that regard, just more subtle.
To give credt where credit is due, he did raise the confidence level in the DR for investment. However, that confidence is begining to slip due to the continued disregard given to the Electricity Sector and the continuaation of subsidies, which really cannot be sustained for very much longer. The DR simply hasn't the resources, natural or financial, for such.
As to Education, well we both know that none of the elite nor the politicians wish for that to be an effective medium. They would all be exposed for what they are should education become a viable accomplishment in the DR.
Texas Bill
Leonel has proven that he, for all his rhetoric, is interested only in enhancing his own Vanity and personal agenda.
In effect, he is no better than Hipolito in that regard, just more subtle.
To give credt where credit is due, he did raise the confidence level in the DR for investment. However, that confidence is begining to slip due to the continued disregard given to the Electricity Sector and the continuaation of subsidies, which really cannot be sustained for very much longer. The DR simply hasn't the resources, natural or financial, for such.
As to Education, well we both know that none of the elite nor the politicians wish for that to be an effective medium. They would all be exposed for what they are should education become a viable accomplishment in the DR.
Texas Bill
education of the masses
I personally think you hit the nail on the head with this question. I think the answer is fairly simple. The masses are not being educated because the oligarchy/elite/ricos, or whatever you prefer to call the "grupito" does not want that to happen. I think they don't want it to happen because it would then be much more difficult to get people to accept the conditions here, which would endanger the grossly unfair economic advantage they've enjoyed since the 19th century:
44 to 60 hour work weeks at wages that don't begin to meet the cost of a meager existence
ignorance about the world beyond Robertico 9x9, Praia, & los colmadones de la Venezuela
apagones
filth
sky high prices
These conditions serve to maintain a high percentage of the country's resources in the pockets of a tiny percentage of the populace. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a reactionary. I see equity in the lack of education. The graduates of the so-called elite colegios here are better educated largely in appearences only, I have it on very good authority.
Were the elites better educated on the whole, it's unlikely their children would accept the conditions of their privilege because human nature includes a conscience. The conscience can't function in a knowledge vacuum however.
just my opinion
Chris said:
I personally think you hit the nail on the head with this question. I think the answer is fairly simple. The masses are not being educated because the oligarchy/elite/ricos, or whatever you prefer to call the "grupito" does not want that to happen. I think they don't want it to happen because it would then be much more difficult to get people to accept the conditions here, which would endanger the grossly unfair economic advantage they've enjoyed since the 19th century:
44 to 60 hour work weeks at wages that don't begin to meet the cost of a meager existence
ignorance about the world beyond Robertico 9x9, Praia, & los colmadones de la Venezuela
apagones
filth
sky high prices
These conditions serve to maintain a high percentage of the country's resources in the pockets of a tiny percentage of the populace. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a reactionary. I see equity in the lack of education. The graduates of the so-called elite colegios here are better educated largely in appearences only, I have it on very good authority.
Were the elites better educated on the whole, it's unlikely their children would accept the conditions of their privilege because human nature includes a conscience. The conscience can't function in a knowledge vacuum however.
just my opinion
arturo;
I would direct your attention to the "educated elite" in history.
Prior to WWII, the few people who enjoyed "higher education" were the elite of each country. Yet, that same elite did very little to encourage education for the masses who worked in their factories, corporate farms and large businesses.
After WWII there existed a drive to raise the educational standards of theworld, fostered by the newly formed UN. Many countries responded to this call by offering low cost loand for higher education. In the US, veterans were offered a supplimented scheme in the form of the GI Bill, which amoung other things provided for one year of college for each year of service plus one. Other parts of the package included home loan guarantees by the government, low cost business loans and many other hidden benefits.It is and was evident that not many countries could afford such a paackage for their veterans.
I would also call your attention to the conditions faced by British soldiers and naval personnel at the end of the war with France in which Napoleon was finally put to exile on isle of St. Helena. Thousands returned to England to an atmosphere of no jobs, displaced families, and were faced with starvation because of the so-called "Corn Laws" legislated by a very self serving Parliement. The same thing happened after WWi and WWII. The result, today, is that the aristocratic elite leadership of "old England" has been displaced toallly.
I further invite your attention to the present day "Islamic Republics" which are in fact ruled rigidly by a select group of elite clergy whose sole purpose is to maintain a status quo of devoted and subservient followers irrespective of individuality and ambitions.
History is a very harsh teacher, but is seldom wrong given a proper and honest interpretation of the events leading up to today. And, NO, I don't insist that anyone interpret those events as I have in my limited knowledge.
Texas Bill
I would direct your attention to the "educated elite" in history.
Prior to WWII, the few people who enjoyed "higher education" were the elite of each country. Yet, that same elite did very little to encourage education for the masses who worked in their factories, corporate farms and large businesses.
After WWII there existed a drive to raise the educational standards of theworld, fostered by the newly formed UN. Many countries responded to this call by offering low cost loand for higher education. In the US, veterans were offered a supplimented scheme in the form of the GI Bill, which amoung other things provided for one year of college for each year of service plus one. Other parts of the package included home loan guarantees by the government, low cost business loans and many other hidden benefits.It is and was evident that not many countries could afford such a paackage for their veterans.
I would also call your attention to the conditions faced by British soldiers and naval personnel at the end of the war with France in which Napoleon was finally put to exile on isle of St. Helena. Thousands returned to England to an atmosphere of no jobs, displaced families, and were faced with starvation because of the so-called "Corn Laws" legislated by a very self serving Parliement. The same thing happened after WWi and WWII. The result, today, is that the aristocratic elite leadership of "old England" has been displaced toallly.
I further invite your attention to the present day "Islamic Republics" which are in fact ruled rigidly by a select group of elite clergy whose sole purpose is to maintain a status quo of devoted and subservient followers irrespective of individuality and ambitions.
History is a very harsh teacher, but is seldom wrong given a proper and honest interpretation of the events leading up to today. And, NO, I don't insist that anyone interpret those events as I have in my limited knowledge.
Texas Bill
You'll have to pardon my meanderings into History, my friend. What I was really attemptingto do was to draw your attention to the past in reference to the present by focusing on the attitude that the elite of the world have never in history given thought to the people under them socially and politically. I think the application to the present (and past) situation in the DR as regards education of the masses is one of significance and can't be ignored for very much longer.
That is the only application that I can make reference to and it applies to the DR as well as other countries.
It is, at best, a generalization and if it is viewed as too far fetched, then I apologize.
Texas Bill
That is the only application that I can make reference to and it applies to the DR as well as other countries.
It is, at best, a generalization and if it is viewed as too far fetched, then I apologize.
Texas Bill
no need to apologize, I think we agree
Here's the thing, my point is that all these things are true. You know it, I know it, and many other people know it, but too many Dominicans don't know it for lack of education. My secondary point was that the lack of education is not by chance, it is by design.
Texas Bill said:
Here's the thing, my point is that all these things are true. You know it, I know it, and many other people know it, but too many Dominicans don't know it for lack of education. My secondary point was that the lack of education is not by chance, it is by design.
Which basically brings around full circle. Here we have a thread talking about liberation and out of the 35 posts 7 are talking about education or lack thereof.
All of you know how I feel about the education system here that is run by this Plutocracy or Kleptocracy or Pornocracy government.
It becomes so out of date to continue to denounce the education system here as so many of us on this board are well aware of the sorry state of said system. What is needed is the discussion as to how to remedy the obvious. Above that is the dire need of Dominicans to take the lead in this endeavor.
This lack of education reaches into ALL aspects of the lives of the society from poverty, crime and everything else. I really would like to see change come about because of my compassion as a human being and due to the fact that this is where I have decided to call home.
What is the possibility that these ends can be met?
Rick
All of you know how I feel about the education system here that is run by this Plutocracy or Kleptocracy or Pornocracy government.
It becomes so out of date to continue to denounce the education system here as so many of us on this board are well aware of the sorry state of said system. What is needed is the discussion as to how to remedy the obvious. Above that is the dire need of Dominicans to take the lead in this endeavor.
This lack of education reaches into ALL aspects of the lives of the society from poverty, crime and everything else. I really would like to see change come about because of my compassion as a human being and due to the fact that this is where I have decided to call home.
What is the possibility that these ends can be met?
Rick
Correction,Texas Bill said:
In the DR there is not only education for the DOMINICAN masses, but also for the HAITIAN masses as well.
In fact, ever since the requirement for Dominican citizenship and/or legal status for a child to be taught in Dominican public schools the number of children from illegal immigrants has skyrocketed, particularly along the border the region.
The amount spent on education has not changed that much, which means the decreasing per pupil spending on education is a result of an increase in the number of students.
Now, if only Dominican public schools were truly for Dominicans and LEGAL migrants, maybe things would be different.
But people think the government has a money tree in the backyard somewhere.... that's what Hipolito believed and look what happened!
-NALs
You're not going as far as to say that if you excluded the illegal Haitians the education system would be adequate!
I wonder, though, is the illegal Haitian figure balanced out by the number of Dominicans who are (a) out of the country and benefiting from the US/Spanish/Canadian etc state education systems; and (b) the number of Dominican children in the private education sector - which is not just the elite, there are plenty of private schools in lower middle class and even in poor areas.
I wonder, though, is the illegal Haitian figure balanced out by the number of Dominicans who are (a) out of the country and benefiting from the US/Spanish/Canadian etc state education systems; and (b) the number of Dominican children in the private education sector - which is not just the elite, there are plenty of private schools in lower middle class and even in poor areas.
Quick question imbedded here and I am expecting for you to give me your opinion - which may or may not answer the question, but let's keep going.arturo said:
Do you know that the Dominican elite exist to perpetrate the interest of the hegemon in the republic in addition to their own interest? Yes or No
Do you know that more than a few Dominican elite families have connections (some through direct marriage) to prominent and "elite" families of the United States? Yes or No.
BTW: I'm not suggesting the US is responsible for this, because its not. It's just interesting how even the American connection many of these families have hardly ever make a case for massive education reform either.....
Now, Cuba (which is run by a group of elites who are not dominated and/or influenced by the current hegemon) has universal education and quite a literacy rate.
Question: Why have they not seen what is really going on there? If they had, you would think they would all simply revolt, but they are not revolting.....
Interesting paradox.
Well, more interesting is how in the United States the people actually believe they have the power. In fact, the American public has so much power that when the local elites of each region wants something to be done.... guess what, more often than not it still gets done regardless what the public thinks!
Examples range from the war on Iraq despite massive opposite within the US and outside of it to simple realities such as the urban renewal projects that has transformed many urban centers across the country and surprisingly, most have failed to meet the promises the local developers promised in terms of wealth creation for the local community....
I could list quite a number spanning the two coasts, but since this is not US1.com, I'll leave it here.
But please, answer the questions. Thanks.
-NALs
Let's rephrase this another way:Chirimoya said:
Are you saying that if kids from illegal migrants were to be excluded it will have no positive effect on the per student education spending given the current total amount being spent?
-NALs