- Thread starter rtejeda
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P.L.D- Talking about liberation? What liberation?
Most Haitians don't have documentation in their own country, let alone in a neighboring one.bob saunders said:
Aside from illegal means, I really don't know how an illegal would get a birth certificate.
However, given that a person can buy all sorts of things in the black market and people do illegal things to help illegal immigrants (look at what the priest Rockoy did in San Pedro by claiming many Haitian kids as his children just so they can have Dominican citizenship) it would appear that through illegal means such documentation is acquired.
During the Hippo years a law was passed prohibiting public schools nationwide from rejecting any kid due to a lack of citizenship and/or birth certificate.
Unless the law has been overturned recently and I have not been aware of this, then this still stands.
As to whether all schools follow that law, I suppose they don't if in Jarabacoa they are still practicing under the previous law which did required birth certificate in order for a child to be enrolled.
-NALs
Nal's or any Dominican,
Speaking of education, would you please read there two Dominican laws and give me your take on a Haitian, American, or what ever nationality to acquiring education here. Get back to me as I wish to know if I'm interpreting them correctly. Thank you.
According to the Dominican Constitution;
Titulo Seccion I Art 8
16. La libertad de enseñanza. La educación primaria será obligatoria. Es deber del Estado proporcionar la educación fundamental a todos los habitantes del territorio nacional y tomar las providencias necesarias para eliminar el analfabetismo. Tanto la educación primaria y secundaria, como la que se ofrezca en las escuelas agronómicas, vocacionales, artísticas, comerciales, de artes manuales y de economía doméstica serán gratuitas. El Estado procurará la más amplia difusión de la ciencia y la cultura, facilitando de manera adecuada que todas las personas se beneficien con los resultados del progreso científico y moral.
According to Ley Orgánica de Educación de la República Dominicana Ley No. 66-97
Título l Capítulo ll Art 4
a. La educación es un derecho permanente e irrenunciable del ser humano. Para hacer efectivo su cumplimiento, cada persona tiene derecho a una educación integral que le permita el desarrollo de su propia individualidad y la realización de una actividad socialmente útil; adecuada a su vocación y dentro de las exigencias del interés nacional o local, sin ningún tipo de discriminación por razón de raza, de sexo, de credo, de posición económica y social o de cualquiera otra naturaleza.
Rick
Speaking of education, would you please read there two Dominican laws and give me your take on a Haitian, American, or what ever nationality to acquiring education here. Get back to me as I wish to know if I'm interpreting them correctly. Thank you.
According to the Dominican Constitution;
Titulo Seccion I Art 8
16. La libertad de enseñanza. La educación primaria será obligatoria. Es deber del Estado proporcionar la educación fundamental a todos los habitantes del territorio nacional y tomar las providencias necesarias para eliminar el analfabetismo. Tanto la educación primaria y secundaria, como la que se ofrezca en las escuelas agronómicas, vocacionales, artísticas, comerciales, de artes manuales y de economía doméstica serán gratuitas. El Estado procurará la más amplia difusión de la ciencia y la cultura, facilitando de manera adecuada que todas las personas se beneficien con los resultados del progreso científico y moral.
According to Ley Orgánica de Educación de la República Dominicana Ley No. 66-97
Título l Capítulo ll Art 4
a. La educación es un derecho permanente e irrenunciable del ser humano. Para hacer efectivo su cumplimiento, cada persona tiene derecho a una educación integral que le permita el desarrollo de su propia individualidad y la realización de una actividad socialmente útil; adecuada a su vocación y dentro de las exigencias del interés nacional o local, sin ningún tipo de discriminación por razón de raza, de sexo, de credo, de posición económica y social o de cualquiera otra naturaleza.
Rick
NALs said:
The usual process for an undocumented immigrant Haitian to acquire Dominican citizenship is having a Dominican woman go through a process called "Declaraci?n Tard?a" (late declaration of birth), which includes signed and notarized affidavits from the woman, the local Alcalde Pedaneo and three local residents who attest that the declarant is son/daughter of the declarer (mother). The court decides on each individual case and orders the respective Oficialia Civil to issue a Dominican birth certificate. Due to the current political patronage system, most political parties resort to and fund this practice in a massive scale during the year (or months) prior to an election for obvious reasons: more voters for their candidates.
Going back to the OP of this thread and making sure I was on the right track I just thought I would throw something into this dry machine to see if I could oil it up a bit.
With all this talk about voting in this and other threads and having lived here for 10 years I was under the impression that I had a little knowledge and then I came across this this afternoon and thought I'd share it with all of you in DR1 land.
According to the Dominican Constitution;
Titulo Seccion II Art 9
d. Todo ciudadano dominicano tiene el deber de votar, siempre que esté legalmente capacitado para hacerlo.
Put this in conjunction with laws that aren't enforced and the feasibility of laws being enforced and what would you have?
I was always under the impression that like the USA the Dominicans had the right to not vote if that was their desire.
Rick
With all this talk about voting in this and other threads and having lived here for 10 years I was under the impression that I had a little knowledge and then I came across this this afternoon and thought I'd share it with all of you in DR1 land.
According to the Dominican Constitution;
Titulo Seccion II Art 9
d. Todo ciudadano dominicano tiene el deber de votar, siempre que esté legalmente capacitado para hacerlo.
Put this in conjunction with laws that aren't enforced and the feasibility of laws being enforced and what would you have?
I was always under the impression that like the USA the Dominicans had the right to not vote if that was their desire.
Rick
NALs said:
Just a comment not specifically to Nals ... most very poor people have no documentation. Documentation costs money.
Mirador I understand what you are trying to imply but I, through a natural procedure of assumption, would think that the defined sanction would be covered in a separate law as specified sanctions are not covered in a constitution.
Rick
Rick
Rick Snyder said:
Rick, the DR Constitution is very explicit on this, no child living in the DR can be denied the right to education. There are no exceptions. Also, the DR is signatory to all Universal Conventions on the Rights of the Child, which also explicitely include education as an inalienable right of children. The practice of denying access to education to the children of undocumented Haitian immigrants in the DR is not only unconstitutional but represents the denial of a basic human right.
Mirador thank you for that which means that my interpertation was in fact correct but I didn't want to say something with the possibility of it being wrong.
Please address the sub paragraph from Ley 66-97 for me.
Rick
Edited to add;
I'm just trying to find out if either of these documents, one being the control for the whole of the DR and the other for the education within the DR, in any way construe that only Dominican children are afforded an education here in the public school system.
Please address the sub paragraph from Ley 66-97 for me.
Rick
Edited to add;
I'm just trying to find out if either of these documents, one being the control for the whole of the DR and the other for the education within the DR, in any way construe that only Dominican children are afforded an education here in the public school system.
Last edited:
Rick Snyder said:
Rick, here's a quick translation of the paragraph in cuestion...
Title l Chapter ll Art 4
Education is a permanent and inalienable right of the human being. In order to effectively realize its fulfillment, each person has the right to an integral education that allows the development of his/her own individuality and the achievement of a socially useful activity; appropriate to his/her vocation and within the requirements of the national or local interest, without any type of discrimination, for reasons of race, sex, creed, economic or social position or of any other nature.
Thank you so very much for that translation Mirador.
I can now honestly say, with proof to back it up, the the discrimination that the Haitian children and the Dominican children who don't have a birth certificate are subjected to is both illegal and unjust.
Rick
I can now honestly say, with proof to back it up, the the discrimination that the Haitian children and the Dominican children who don't have a birth certificate are subjected to is both illegal and unjust.
Rick
Texas Bill,
Concerning your post #46. The thread you were looking for, I think, is here;
http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50679&page=3
Rick
Concerning your post #46. The thread you were looking for, I think, is here;
http://www.dr1.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50679&page=3
Rick
Mirador said:
You notice that the government did put " within the requirement of the national or local interest " and didn't stipulate whether being illegal would give a person these rights. As i haven't read the DR Constitution, are they talking about the rights of Dominicans here. What the DR government does, is, it allows the illegal child to get an education, but then it denies them the paperwork (graduation) proving their education.
Bob,
But therein lies the problem within this country. What the government does/doesn't do and what the schools in the country do or don't do are not congruent.
It is a fact that the public and private schools here in El Seybo will not allow enrollment without a Dominican birth certificate. Of course this might be circumvented with the application of money but I don't know that. Other people have attested to does and does not throughout this country.
With a reported 95% drop-out rate in this country I don't think proof of education is in the realm of contemplation of the majority of people both Dominican and non Dominican.
Another example of lack of congruency is in the payment of enrollment fees to attend school. All laws point to school attendance being free but the schools here in El seybo force you to pay an enrollment/inscription fee for your children to attend. Now this is in direct contradiction to the Department of Education.
Rick
But therein lies the problem within this country. What the government does/doesn't do and what the schools in the country do or don't do are not congruent.
It is a fact that the public and private schools here in El Seybo will not allow enrollment without a Dominican birth certificate. Of course this might be circumvented with the application of money but I don't know that. Other people have attested to does and does not throughout this country.
With a reported 95% drop-out rate in this country I don't think proof of education is in the realm of contemplation of the majority of people both Dominican and non Dominican.
Another example of lack of congruency is in the payment of enrollment fees to attend school. All laws point to school attendance being free but the schools here in El seybo force you to pay an enrollment/inscription fee for your children to attend. Now this is in direct contradiction to the Department of Education.
Rick
What this section basically says is the following (this is a very concise):Rick Snyder said:
All primary schooling is obligatory and the state (government) must ensure the fundamental education of all the inhabitants of the country and do anything in its power to eliminate illiteracy. ... the state must also facilitate in an adequate manner the benefits of scientific and moral progress to all peoples.
Again, in a very concise manner it says the following:Rick Snyder said:
Education is a permanent and unchangeable right of all humans. For this to be effective, each person has the right to an integral education which will allow for the person to develop their individuality, etc...
...with no discrimination based on race, sex, birthplace, socioeconomic position, or any other differences.
MY POSITION:
This appears to be the modified law implemented during the Hippo years. If this is still in effect, then all school age kids in the country should be accepted in any public school regardless of anything else which previously would had restricted the enrollment process if the kids lacked certain documents and/or other necessary thing.
-NALs
Oh no. Dominicans are supposed to vote, its compulsory.Rick Snyder said:
Many other democracies function this way, the one that comes to mind is Italy (which ironically is seen as the most democratic country on earth because every political party is allowed to run and the most number of people actually vote.)
However, its obviously clear that all Dominicans with the right to vote don't exercise this right they have.
BTW, all Dominican citizens over the age of 18 or under the age of 18 if married, has the right to vote.
-NALs
Nal's,
I thank you for those very concise translations.
Though you seem to be under the impression that Hippo did at least one thing right I'm sorry but I must rain on your parade.
At the bottom of the last page of the Ley 66-97, which governs all schooling here in the DR both public and private, reads as follows;
LEONEL FERN?NDEZ
Presidente de la Rep?blica Dominicana
En ejercicio de las atribuciones que me confiere el art?culo 55 de la Constituci?n de la Rep?blica;
PROMULGO la presente ley y mando que sea publicada en la Gaceta Oficial, para su conocimiento y cumplimiento.
Dada en Santo Domingo de Guzm?n, Distrito Nacional, Capital de la Rep?blica Dominicana, a los nueve (9) d?as del mes de abril del a?o mil novecientos noventa y siete, a?o 153 de la Independencia y 134 de la Restauraci?n.
Leonel Fern?ndez
I thank you for those very concise translations.
Though you seem to be under the impression that Hippo did at least one thing right I'm sorry but I must rain on your parade.
At the bottom of the last page of the Ley 66-97, which governs all schooling here in the DR both public and private, reads as follows;
LEONEL FERN?NDEZ
Presidente de la Rep?blica Dominicana
En ejercicio de las atribuciones que me confiere el art?culo 55 de la Constituci?n de la Rep?blica;
PROMULGO la presente ley y mando que sea publicada en la Gaceta Oficial, para su conocimiento y cumplimiento.
Dada en Santo Domingo de Guzm?n, Distrito Nacional, Capital de la Rep?blica Dominicana, a los nueve (9) d?as del mes de abril del a?o mil novecientos noventa y siete, a?o 153 de la Independencia y 134 de la Restauraci?n.
Leonel Fern?ndez