"PICHARDO", & "NALS" Must Be VERY Proud! The DR Is Ranked 2nd. of 139 Countries!

[DRob]

Because I LIVE HERE! THAT's "WHY"!
Maybe,"Cut & Run" is your way to handle problems,NOT MINE!

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Actually, I don't condone "cutting" or "running" any more than constantly "bitching" and "moaning." Unlike most Dominicans, you have a choice which involves more than loadin' up on guns and gallons of water.

For a guy who lives there, you sure are one seriously whiney dude. You sound like someone who has spent way too much time listening to talk radio up here.

Those people survived Trujillo, you freak out if the RD gets a bit weaker against the dollar.

You may live there, but you certainly have missed the point, and don't understand ish about the people.

Pathetic.

 

[NALs]

That report simply gauged public opinion, not reality. You can gauge what the public opinion of any country will be on a given subject by simply watching the most recurrent theme in the local news media. It has nothing to do with reality, but all to do with perception; more so in a country like the DR.

Dominican media is not 'fair and balanced,' it's very partial along political lines and the economic interests of their owners. I'm sure many people changed their minds on Hip?lito's regime when the Baninter guys, after being pro-Hip?lito for years on all their media outlets, suddenly became against him during the banking scandal. It was a perfect example of how special interests affects what gets published/shown on TV, and how unimportant reality and objectivity is.

And for the guy (or gal) that was wondering why Cuba and Haiti ranked "better" than the DR, they didn't. Those two countries were excluded and it makes sense.

Cuba, with its paranoid dictatorial regime, is a hard place to gauge what the public truly thinks, especially when the government disapproves. It's amazing considering that in Cuba, what Fidel says is first, second and third and has full control of the media; and they still fear don't trust the possible results. Well, now is Raul, but we all know Fidel is behind the whole thing.

Haiti, well it's Haiti, the simplest task is just impossible. Nuff said.

Venezuela's position is interesting, considering all the populist mumbo jumbo from Mi Comandante. I guess Venezuelans are turning a deaf ear to him, good for them! Maybe Castro got the hint from the Venezuelan example and prohibited them from doing the poll.

The Venezuelan example shows how media influence can also be tamed or ignored by the public, but the Dominican case is different. Whatever theme the media sources love to focus on, that's what the average Dominican will think. Critical thinking on what's shown on TV or the newspaper is almost non-existant, everything is accepted as the God-given truth.

If anyone doubt this, go and ask around.

Herd mentality at its finest.

 

[frank recktenwald]

For the last 50 years the DR had the opportunity to grow but in my eyes it hadn't lived up to its potential and I'm sure that corruption played a big part in this.
Cuba had for more than 50 years a communist regime and I'm convinced that the reason the Castro's were able to pull the strings for so long is because of the "help" from the US gov. If there wouldn't have been a Helms-Burton law that regime would have been gone already a long time ago. It gave the Castro's strength and the Cuban people somebody to blame for their misery.
Even though a lot of wrong has been done by that regime I honestly must say that it also has done a lot of good and to add a little to what was already mentioned by other posters.
Cuba is the only country where I have seen blacks and whites working side by side doing for example road repairs, inter racial couples. In the DR or here in Panama when you see a black girl with a white guy, the guy is a foreigner.
In addition the Cubans are very well educated which has them prepared for the inevitable and that's capitalism.
There's a lot lacking in Cuba but it still has a lot more to offer than the DR and as soon as the Gringos can freely visit Cuba I fear for the future of the DR.

 

[NALs]

For the last 50 years the DR had the opportunity to grow but in my eyes it hadn't lived up to its potential and I'm sure that corruption played a big part in this.

1960s - political instability lead to economic instability. Lost decade.

1970s - good decade, the middle class began to grow and the economy to develop.

1980s - Latin American credit crisis also affected the DR. The PRD government mismanaged the economy worsening the crisis to the point, that in 1984 Santo Domingo suffered the worst looting since, perhaps, the days of Sir Frances Drake in colonial times! The country had to wait until Balaguer returned to put it on the right path again. The middle class shrank considerably, the first massive exodus of Dominicans ensued and poverty grew.

1990s - A repeat of the 1970s, middle class expanded, economy developed faster than ever before, this were going great.

2000 - 2004 = Economy started to slow and then the Baninter crisis and the following PRD mismanagement practically set the DR a full decade back. The second exodus began, middle class shrank and poverty grew by upwards of 1 million.

2004 - today = Economy having a repeat of the 1990s, with some impact from the unfavorable international crisis. Middle class growing again, poverty declining, public opinion not withstanding.

And yet, you go around claiming the DR had 50 years to grow? Baloney.

The country has actually done quite well, considering the context of its time periods.

Now, go on and explain to everyone why in those same 50 years, Panam? has not even become developed yet. Sure, Panam? city looks wonderful, but... the country is not Panam? City, or is it?

Cuba had for more than 50 years a communist regime and I'm convinced that the reason the Castro's were able to pull the strings for so long is because of the "help" from the US gov. If there wouldn't have been a Helms-Burton law that regime would have been gone already a long time ago. It gave the Castro's strength and the Cuban people somebody to blame for their misery.
Even though a lot of wrong has been done by that regime I honestly must say that it also has done a lot of good and to add a little to what was already mentioned by other posters.
Cuba is the only country where I have seen blacks and whites working side by side doing for example road repairs, inter racial couples. In the DR or here in Panama when you see a black girl with a white guy, the guy is a foreigner.
In addition the Cubans are very well educated which has them prepared for the inevitable and that's capitalism.
There's a lot lacking in Cuba but it still has a lot more to offer than the DR and as soon as the Gringos can freely visit Cuba I fear for the future of the DR.

The Cuban story is a case of half-truths.

People often forget to mention that in 1959 Cuba had:

The highest literacy rates in the Developing World.

The most developed economy of any country in the tropics.

One of the healthiest population in the Developing World with the highest life expectancy.

Havana was more developed than Madrid!

So on and so forth.

Of course Fidel Castro was able to reach such high levels of social acheivements, the Cuba he inherited was almost there. He simply did the minor work of finishing the little bits needed to accomplish such.

Had Fidel inherited an Hait?, let's not fool ourselves. We all know what would had happened.

So let's tell the story, the full story and not the partial mambo jumbo.

He did, however, improved race relations, which in Cuba were much better before the Americans went there acting as if they owned the place and imposed their Jim Crow nonsense, simply to feel 'at home.' But, one can see a country becoming more mixed when the white segment leaves, not so much due to greater mixtures than before but simply because the weight the white population had on the overall racial composition simply dissappeared.

It was like what happened in El Salvador, except that over there blacks were forcibly expelled from the country and were prohibited from moving there, subject to instant deportation. Bam, problem solved. An instant completely homogenous population!

Tell the whole story.

 

[frank recktenwald]

1960s - political instability lead to economic instability. Lost decade.

1970s - good decade, the middle class began to grow and the economy to develop.

1980s - Latin American credit crisis also affected the DR. The PRD government mismanaged the economy worsening the crisis to the point, that in 1984 Santo Domingo suffered the worst looting since, perhaps, the days of Sir Frances Drake in colonial times! The country had to wait until Balaguer returned to put it on the right path again. The middle class shrank considerably, the first massive exodus of Dominicans ensued and poverty grew.

1990s - A repeat of the 1970s, middle class expanded, economy developed faster than ever before, this were going great.

2000 - 2004 = Economy started to slow and then the Baninter crisis and the following PRD mismanagement practically set the DR a full decade back. The second exodus began, middle class shrank and poverty grew by upwards of 1 million.

2004 - today = Economy having a repeat of the 1990s, with some impact from the unfavorable international crisis. Middle class growing again, poverty declining, public opinion not withstanding.

And yet, you go around claiming the DR had 50 years to grow? Baloney.

The country has actually done quite well, considering the context of its time periods.

Now, go on and explain to everyone why in those same 50 years, Panam? has not even become developed yet. Sure, Panam? city looks wonderful, but... the country is not Panam? City, or is it?
You read pretty bad as a moderator!! Where in this thread I compared the development of the DR with Panama? Since you started it Panama's interior is much better developed than the DR, period.

The Cuban story is a case of half-truths.

People often forget to mention that in 1959 Cuba had:

The highest literacy rates in the Developing World.

The most developed economy of any country in the tropics.

One of the healthiest population in the Developing World with the highest life expectancy.

Havana was more developed than Madrid!

So on and so forth.

Of course Fidel Castro was able to reach such high levels of social acheivements, the Cuba he inherited was almost there. He simply did the minor work of finishing the little bits needed to accomplish such.

Had Fidel inherited an Hait?, let's not fool ourselves. We all know what would had happened.

So let's tell the story, the full story and not the partial mambo jumbo.

He did, however, improved race relations, which in Cuba were much better before the Americans went there acting as if they owned the place and imposed their Jim Crow nonsense, simply to feel 'at home.' But, one can see a country becoming more mixed when the white segment leaves, not so much due to greater mixtures than before but simply because the weight the white population had on the overall racial composition simply dissappeared.

It was like what happened in El Salvador, except that over there blacks were forcibly expelled from the country and were prohibited from moving there, subject to instant deportation. Bam, problem solved. An instant completely homogenous population!

Tell the whole story.

I don't know you, don't even know where you're from, seriously but may I assume that you're Dominican because I've never met a people so proud of their country as the Dominicans and by the love of God I can not understand why they worship this country so much and you sound like one.
I'm not even going to debate with you about Cuba. F that

 

[NALs]

I don't know you, don't even know where you're from, seriously but may I assume that you're Dominican because I've never met a people so proud of their country as the Dominicans and by the love of God I can not understand why they worship this country so much and you sound like one.
I'm not even going to debate with you about Cuba. F that

I understand, you can't counter the Dominican arguments because you don't know the country that well, and the Cuban arguments are those points that some people would love to forget about the Cuba Castro inherited, but boy, do they talk it up when it comes to mention the 'almighty virtues' of Socialism.

You read pretty bad as a moderator!! Where in this thread I compared the development of the DR with Panama? Since you started it Panama's interior is much better developed than the DR, period.

No, I read quite well. That's how I've been reading not just your many posts here, but also you very anti-Dominican website.

Its more than clear what your opinion is of the DR and what you wish for it.

 

[frank recktenwald]

I understand, you can't counter the Dominican arguments because you don't know the country that well, and the Cuban arguments are those points that some people would love to forget about the Cuba Castro inherited, but boy, do they talk it up when it comes to mention the 'almighty virtues' of Socialism.


No, I read quite well. That's how I've been reading not just your many posts here, but also you very anti-Dominican website.

Its more than clear what your opinion is of the DR and what you wish for it.

Nals, you make a horse laugh, that's how we call people like you in Holland.
First of all what anti-Dominican website do I have? What kind of drugs are you on?
Yes I don't have a good opinion about the DR but does that mean that I wish the country bad?
WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU, my daughter still lives there.

Robert this guy has a problem, One flew over the cuckoo's nest
You still haven't answered my question, are you Dominican?

 

[wuarhat]

"Maggie" Thatcher said it best.
"The only trouble with socialism is, sooner,or later,you run out of other peoples money to spend!"

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Anybody moving to Greece?

The only trouble with Maggie Thatcher capitalism is, sooner or later, you run short of North Sea oil money to spend!

 

[SKY]

Batista Cuba - Cuba under Batista - Rise and Fall of the Cuban dictator

Does anybody really believe that Batista was any better than Castro is now. He was a dictator the same as Castro.

In 1995 I spent some time in Cuba. I made it a point to ask the older people who was worse Castro or Batista? Everyone I asked said Batista was worse. Not saying Castro is any good either, but remember what was there before him.

 

[Ken]

I don't recall anyone saying that but it's possible. When Hippo took over it was a total mess.

Not true. The country was in worse shape when Hippo left office than when he took over. Leonel was a good president during his first term. Even CC, who now seems to favor Hippo, will agree with that. The pity is that Leonel did not continue to govern the same as during first term but instead followed the example of Hippo and other self-serving Dominican politicians.

Go back into the archives to 2004 and see the threads from near the end of Hippo's term.

 

[Eddy]

Not true. The country was in worse shape when Hippo left office than when he took over. Leonel was a good president during his first term. Even CC, who now seems to favor Hippo, will agree with that. The pity is that Leonel did not continue to govern the same as during first term but instead followed the example of Hippo and other self-serving Dominican politicians.

Go back into the archives to 2004 and see the threads from near the end of Hippo's term.

And you don't think Leonel will leave it worse then when he took over. It alleady is and he has a year to go.

 

[Ken]

And you don't think Leonel will leave it worse then when he took over. It alleady is and he has a year to go.

Eddy, my comment was related to your statement that the country was a mess when Hippo took over and your statement that you didn't recall anybody saying he did a bad job. The archives are full of threads that prove you wrong.

Re the present, no, I don't think the country will be worse than when Leonel took over. The rate of exchange is much lower and we aren't getting 18 hour a day blackouts, etc. But it will be worse than it should be/could have been.

I agree that Leonel does not deserve another term. He squandered his opportunity and his days as president should be over. But I don't think Hippo is he answer, not given his record during his previous term as president, and given his statements to the effect that he will prosecute those in the PLD for corruption but not those he considers his friends.

 

[Conchman]

the Conchman assures


2) Low Aids numbers - yes, by incarcerating everybody with the disease in a concentration camp. well done!


this is why i do not customarily involve myself in threads which have to do with politics and religion. too much hyperbole. none of which can be substantiated. we are aware that the hiv positive in Cuba were quarantined. i am not so sure about concentration camps. please document this, to the best of your abilities. try to stay away from self serving op ed pieces from the Miami Herald. just the facts. as to the arts, i do not care who approves what. i have been to Cuba, and have heard some of the most fantastic young musicians. also, i noticed where you failed to mention education. by the way, when you make what appears to be these self serving comments about Cuba, try to remember that some of us have visited the place.

AIDS camps, here an article by the Chicago Tribune:

Cuba`s Aids Center Resembles Prison - Chicago Tribune

Chavez, another leftist dictator, has found out the wonders of Cuba's health care system:

In a July 2 article, El Periodico reported that a Cuban physician botched Chavez's first surgery -- "erroneously" treating him only for a "pelvic abscess" instead of for a cancerous tumor. A "few days later, the injury to his (cancerous) tumor fistulized," spreading an infection to the rest of his body, El Periodico explained. With Chavez in serious condition, Cuba then flew in a Spanish surgeon from Madrid to perform a second surgery.

According to El Periodico, Chavez's "colon cancer...has perforated the intestinal wall and provoked an abdominal infection." It added: "The president, for a minimum of three months, will have to have a colostomy."

Chavez's Spanish surgeon may have been Jos? Luis Garc?a Sabrido, chief of surgery of Gregorio Mara??n Hospital of Madrid, El Periodico said; however, the paper noted it could not confirm that. Garc?a once operated on Fidel Castro -- surgery that apparently was needed after Cuban physicians botched an earlier surgery on Castro, according to some accounts.

Most ominously for Chavez, El Periodico said he "will be unable to receive chemotherapy because the first (surgical) intervention prevents it." Chavez's condition is "serious" because of the possibility that the tumor has produced a metastasis" (spread cancer cells) due to the first, inappropriate surgery. (credit to http://www.americanthinker.com/blog..._amid_reports_of_botched_surgery_in_cuba.html)

Oh you meant the Cuban education system, yes, this has produced positive results, as kids learn that when you have two hand granades and add three hand granades, that you have five hand granades to throw at the Imperialist Yankees. I used to have the actual math book that depicted this, but sent it to another 'fellow traveler' who didn't believe me, many years ago.

I wonder how many times the experiment of marxism has to fail, before people stop trying it.

 

[Eddy]

Eddy, my comment was related to your statement that the country was a mess when Hippo took over and your statement that you didn't recall anybody saying he did a bad job. The archives are full of threads that prove you wrong.

Re the present, no, I don't think the country will be worse than when Leonel took over. The rate of exchange is much lower and we aren't getting 18 hour a day blackouts, etc. But it will be worse than it should be/could have been.

I agree that Leonel does not deserve another term. He squandered his opportunity and his days as president should be over. But I don't think Hippo is he answer, not given his record during his previous term as president, and given his statements to the effect that he will prosecute those in the PLD for corruption but not those he considers his friends.

Nobody will be prosecited. Their all his friends. Have to admit, that wasn't a very intelligent statement on his part. I'm sure it was a joke, but a dumb one.

 

[Ken]

Nobody will be prosecited. Their all his friends. Have to admit, that wasn't a very intelligent statement on his part. I'm sure it was a joke, but a dumb one.

It wasn't a joke. It is how he thinks. Reward your friends and punish your enemies.

But you are right about nobody being prosecuted. The president that starts that will be the defendant in a corruption trial as soon as he leaves office. Until we get a truly honest president who doesn't fear being prosecuted at the end of his term will the
corruption come to an end. Hippo is not that man.

 

[Eddy]

It wasn't a joke. It is how he thinks. Reward your friends and punish your enemies.

But you are right about nobody being prosecuted. The president that starts that will be the defendant in a corruption trial as soon as he leaves office. Until we get a truly honest president who doesn't fear being prosecuted at the end of his term will the
corruption come to an end. Hippo is not that man.

Honest president??? Not going to happen. The people will decide and have to live with their choice. Have been living a decent life during the past 30 years with different governments. Same sh*t different times. I'm a survivor along with yourself and a few others. Let the dice roll and we will adapt to whatever comes up.

 

[the gorgon]

Conchman seems to be having some difficulty distinguishing between a prison camp and a concentration camp. well, as the article states, Castro has always placed the good of society above the good of the individual. i am a guy who is kinda like that. if people have to be quarantined in order to prevent them from causing a pandemic, so be it. it is not the best kept secret that many people with aids, who knew they were going to die, deliberately gave it to others. in the US, it was a felony for an aids sufferer to inflict it knowingly upon the unsuspecting. Cuba did what in effect obviated that eventuality. people have been quarantined throughout the centuries in proactive, preventive moves. ever heard of the internment of the Japanese? anyway, i really find no relish discussing this matter, because i am a little too jaded to listen to some right wing, or left wing, political rant. life is too short.

 

[AlterEgo]

Conchman seems to be having some difficulty distinguishing between a prison camp and a concentration camp. well, as the article states, Castro has always placed the good of society above the good of the individual. i am a guy who is kinda like that. if people have to be quarantined in order to prevent them from causing a pandemic, so be it. it is not the best kept secret that many people with aids, who knew they were going to die, deliberately gave it to others. in the US, it was a felony for an aids sufferer to inflict it knowingly upon the unsuspecting. Cuba did what in effect obviated that eventuality. people have been quarantined throughout the centuries in proactive, preventive moves. ever heard of the internment of the Japanese? anyway, i really find no relish discussing this matter, because i am a little too jaded to listen to some right wing, or left wing, political rant. life is too short.

Kind of brings the old Leper Colonies to mind, doesn't it?? Like in Ben Hur.....

AE

 

[bob saunders]

Conchman seems to be having some difficulty distinguishing between a prison camp and a concentration camp. well, as the article states, Castro has always placed the good of society above the good of the individual. i am a guy who is kinda like that. if people have to be quarantined in order to prevent them from causing a pandemic, so be it. it is not the best kept secret that many people with aids, who knew they were going to die, deliberately gave it to others. in the US, it was a felony for an aids sufferer to inflict it knowingly upon the unsuspecting. Cuba did what in effect obviated that eventuality. people have been quarantined throughout the centuries in proactive, preventive moves. ever heard of the internment of the Japanese? anyway, i really find no relish discussing this matter, because i am a little too jaded to listen to some right wing, or left wing, political rant. life is too short.

You truely have no idea of life in Cuba.

 

[the gorgon]

BobSaunders offers

You truely have no idea of life in Cuba

maybe not. please enlighten me. however, if you have not lived there yourself, please disregard that request.