Sad day in Santiago

curlyq

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Mar 20, 2006
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This is such a senseless act of violence towards the innocent, and for what?
A cell phone? This just proves that your life is not worth material objects. They can be replaced. If these scumbags need it that bad, just give it to them. My heart goes out to the family at this difficult time.
 

fightingirish

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Dec 8, 2005
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death penalty

Onions&carrots said:
What should be done with these thugs, Hillbilly? Olive branch, a hug, a pat on the shoulder and help them become nice kiddies?


1. Over and over again statisticians in the US have been unable to demonstrate that the death penalty is ANY DETERRENT to crime. Let that sink in for a moment....

Argue for the death penalty all you like, but never claim as fact that its institution in the DR will lower violent crime rates. There is as much factual basis in the claim as there is in claiming it will lower hurricane damage.

2. In the US the death penalty is enacted against poor and African-American criminals with stunningly higher frequency than it is against criminals with high priced legal defense and criminals who happen to be white. If the criminal needs a public defender, is black and has murdered a white person? The incidence of the death penalty shoots through the ceiling.

So EVEN if the death penalty is itself just (a huge if), it is enacted unjustly. Having experienced just some of the racial attitudes of the DR, I could only imagine the outcomes there.

The death penalty isnt the answer.
 

cobraboy

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Jul 24, 2004
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fightingirish said:
1. Over and over again statisticians in the US have been unable to demonstrate that the death penalty is ANY DETERRENT to crime. Let that sink in for a moment....

Argue for the death penalty all you like, but never claim as fact that its institution in the DR will lower violent crime rates. There is as much factual basis in the claim as there is in claiming it will lower hurricane damage.

2. In the US the death penalty is enacted against poor and African-American criminals with stunningly higher frequency than it is against criminals with high priced legal defense and criminals who happen to be white. If the criminal needs a public defender, is black and has murdered a white person? The incidence of the death penalty shoots through the ceiling.

So EVEN if the death penalty is itself just (a huge if), it is enacted unjustly. Having experienced just some of the racial attitudes of the DR, I could only imagine the outcomes there.

The death penalty isnt the answer.
It takes 20 years and a gaggle of bleeding heart ACLU-types to execute the pieces of human scum that EARN the death penalty. The only "quick" execution I can remember was a white guy who blew up a gov't. building; the government made damn sure THAT one happened quickly.

I'm betting the punishment would be swifter in the DR.

To criminals, the death penalty is a concept than almost never happens in their short attention span. If the sentence was actually administered in 1/10 the time, maybe THEN it would be a deterrant.

Besides, it isn't ALL about deterance. It's has a healthy dose of societal retribution, too.

And one thing is for damn sure: a bad guy will NEVER kill an innocent person again after the death penalty is delivered.
 

Rick Snyder

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Nov 19, 2003
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I would suggest that if your desire it to highjack this thread to debate the merits of the death penalty that you open your own thread in the "Debates" forum.

Rick
 
Mar 21, 2002
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cobraboy said:
To criminals, the death penalty is a concept than almost never happens in their short attention span. If the sentence was actually administered in 1/10 the time, maybe THEN it would be a deterrant.

Besides, it isn't ALL about deterance. It's has a healthy dose of societal retribution, too.

And one thing is for damn sure: a bad guy will NEVER kill an innocent person again after the death penalty is delivered.

That first part is fascinating. How can it be a deterrent when its administered long after the collective memory of the brutality has become a faint glow?

Wonderful analysis, cobraboy!

Executions carried out quickly with trials lasting ONLY one week or less.

Public executions for public consumption, maybe a Roman arena to entertain and instruct. Saudi Arabia comes to mind. Gladiator fights where the condemned have weapons that are blunt and serve no actual offense/defense purposes. We don't want our lions getting hurt, LOL.
 

rellosk

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Mar 18, 2002
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Hillbilly said:
The scum that killed her are all home grown kids, in their early 20s, and the Police have mug shots of them all...Now does that say something>?
You mean they weren't criminal released from US jails, exporting their skills to the DR? :rolleyes: You mean these lowlifes actually learned their trade in the DR, all by themselves?
 

rellosk

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Mar 18, 2002
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Onions&carrots said:
What should be done with these thugs, Hillbilly? Olive branch, a hug, a pat on the shoulder and help them become nice kiddies?
In this situation, I agree with you brand of punishment. No punishment can be considered too harsh. These people are the lowest of the low.

In the case of the youth that stole the cigarettes, we disagree.
 

NALs

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Jan 20, 2003
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Dragonfly32837 said:
I know. All for 500 pesos. I hope we do have a hell and that these boys will burn in it for eternity.
There is a hell.... it's called LA VICTORIA prison.

I just read over the details of this crime.

It has brought me to a freeze. They should be given death by beating as punishment.

They did not even thought of their own mothers, who (if she is a nice person) is probably just as devastated right now as are the parents of Vanessa and all people who has read the details of this barbaric act.

It seems to be the very young who are commiting these horrific crimes (late teens, early twenties). They should all be ordered to join the military and sent to Iraq.

If they want to kill people, go a kill the terrorist!

Dispicable act and I hope these guys burn in hell!

In fact, I don't know how anyone can commit such crime and not feel guilt of any sort. If there are people like that, they are not human.

-NALs
 
Mar 21, 2002
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rellosk said:
In this situation, I agree with you brand of punishment. No punishment can be considered too harsh. These people are the lowest of the low.

Thank you. We have come full circle.
 

rellosk

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Mar 18, 2002
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Here's an update in todays DR1 News:

Vanessa's killers had been jailed before
As is typical in many cases, the robbery department of the Police had already known the admitted killers of Vanessa Ramirez Fana. Amaury German Tavarez Peralta ("Medio Polvo") and Ricardo Alejandro Reyes Martinez (La Tata), had been arrested and jailed in 2004 for robbery, but were released a few weeks thereafter. A third member of the group back then was killed by the police in an exchange of gunfire shortly after they were released from custody. As the accused entered the courthouse for their bail hearing, another woman identified the group as the ones that had robbed her of her cell phone just minutes before the group killed 18-year old medicine student Vanessa a short distance from her family home in Santiago. Despite different reporters and different media, the story from the case has remained constant. The group met in front of the public school in the Hoyo de Caimito section of Santiago, decided that they were going to set out to rob people, and left on two small motorcycles. When they saw Vanessa talking on her cell phone, Amaury"Medio Polvo" Tavarez Peralta got off one of the motorcycles, walked up behind her, grabbed her hair, hit her in the back and tried to take the cell phone. As Vanessa fell to the ground struggling to keep the phone, Amaury Ventura Tavarez Peralta shot her and took the phone.
Yesterday a massive demonstration of sorrow and repudiation for this senseless killing, as well as all of the other violent crimes that have occurred recently, took place in Santiago, as thousands marched from the Altagracia church to the parochial church of Our Lady of the Annunciation on the PUCMM campus. In spite of massive traffic tie-ups, the people demonstrated plenty of tolerance and a firm stance against crime.
The Police arrested four in the case, one for buying the stolen cell phone, and the three others that on two motorcycles set out to find their victims.
 

Mirador

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Apr 15, 2004
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rellosk said:
Here's an update in todays DR1 News:

This afternoon, Presidential spokesperson, Dr. Rodriguez de Marchena, mentioned that two of the assassins had been let out of jail a few days ago on charges of armed robbery.
Although the case was solved in less than 72 hours, due to the sophisticated call tracking hardware (and software) available to to the police, which allowed them to pinpoint the exact location of the victim's cell phone, nothing has been mentioned of the weapon (gun) used in the crime...
 

Mirador

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The fact that the murder weapon hasen't been mentioned by the police is more than suspect.
 

Rick Snyder

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Mirador that statement is true and I still fail to understand why things like you mention are not reported or commented upon in the media.

Still think 'you' should seek a job as a reporter.

Rick
 

Mirador

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Rick Snyder said:
Mirador that statement is true and I still fail to understand why things like you mention are not reported or commented upon in the media.

Still think 'you' should seek a job as a reporter.

Rick

A job? that's exactly what I've been seeking for the last few months. I'm ready to do anything, including reporting (I also do windows). I've gotten the eviction notice from my landlady, my children are going to public school next term, and I'll have to move the family to my hut in the foothills north of Azua, if I don't find a job soon....
 

Mirador

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Onions&carrots said:
Why is that suspect?

Enquiring minds want to know.

In similar cases, the weapon used in the crime has belonged to an active police officer, or has been in police custody at the time of the crime, suggesting that the assassins belonged to a larger criminal gang with the active/passive participation of police personnel.