Sad day in Santiago

[Celt202]

Find 'em, Phuck 'em and forget 'em.

Onion's Razor

Works for me.

If this were Massachusetts they'd be jailed and segregated in protective custody to protect them from the general population. In a Massachusetts prison they could seek advanced educational degrees (once they mastered the mysteries of the GED). In Massachusetts there is a prisoner suing the state to pay for sex change surgery.

 

[jojo2130]

We are having second thoughts

It has hit us at home as well.

My wife and I were planning on her going to Medical school At PUCMM starting in August. She wrote her entry exams in May and we were going to rent an apartment close to the university for her to stay with a roommate 5 days a week and return to our home on the North Coast for the weekends.
My wife is distraught because she is also from La Romana , was going to be in the same university and is 19 years old. Almost an identical situation. She is nervous about being there without me all week because we have a home and business concerns on the North Coast, Yesterday, she informed me that she at least wants to wait until January.

I have to leave the decision to her , otherwise , if there were consequences I could never live with them. This murder , I hope will start a big ball rolling because change doesnt start with the police. It starts with US. The citizens and I am very proud of the way our fellow Dominicans have stood up and made a loud noise about this.

I agree, street sweep these scum into a custom built Campo jail with no running water and lots of corporal punishment and dish out to them double whatever they dished out in their life to others . An eye for an eye I say. When it is senseless and premeditated and with complete disregard for life.

God Bless Vanessa , may she rest in peace. Our condolences to her family and friends and the world was robbed of a beautiful person with a bright future and an obvious desire to help others. Her senseless death has touched us deeply.

 

[Don Juan]

What about the weapon????

Does anyone know if it was reported where the gun came from?
How easy is it to buy a gun in DR? and how much would it cost to get one similar to the one used in this crime?
The cell phone taken from Vanessa was sold for 500 pesos. That's about 15 or 16 dollars which suggests these were petty criminals. How can they afford to get what I estimate to be a 300 to 400 hundred dollar gun?( this is what it'd cost to buy one legally here in Maryland). Or are they that much cheaper there? Could it have been supplied to them by a crooked police bastard?
Can this gun be traced to its original owner?
Answers to these can possibly implicate many more than the ones already in custody. I hope the investigation goes deeper. The supplier is just as guilty as the one who did the actual shooting! Answers please!

 

[drloca]

Does anyone know if it was reported where the gun came from?
How easy is it to buy a gun in DR? and how much would it cost to get one similar to the one used in this crime?
The cell phone taken from Vanessa was sold for 500 pesos. That's about 15 or 16 dollars which suggests these were petty criminals. How can they afford to get what I estimate to be a 300 to 400 hundred dollar gun?( this is what it'd cost to buy one legally here in Maryland). Or are they that much cheaper there? Could it have been supplied to them by a crooked police bastard?
Can this gun be traced to its original owner?
Answers to these can possibly implicate many more than the ones already in custody. I hope the investigation goes deeper. The supplier is just as guilty as the one who did the actual shooting! Answers please!

Gun control in the DR?????? Not happening!!!

 

[Rick Snyder]

Mirador brought up the question concerning the gun used in this crime in posts #53 and 55. We would hope that a through investigation is taking place but remembering where we are has a tendency to cast doubts on the outcome. As the talk of fighting crime progresses it must be remembered that the other side of the coin must be polished also.

Rick

 

[macocael]

Oh Lord We Are All Going To Die!

How many decades after Serpico did it take the NYC Police Dept. to be an actual deterrent against crime? To finally root out the most obviously corrupt forces within? How long did it take Riker's Island to finally break up the waves of jail gangland violence and drug dealing? By the time your wonderful ideas are enacted there won't be anyone left in the DR to protect.

. . .

Einstein and Occam said it best- As simple as possible but not simpler, Don't multiply entities beyond what is necessary for a solution. !

You're kidding right? Last I looked the population hadnt dipped in NYC despite all the time it took for the NYPD to get their act together. And Serpico's day was not all that long ago. Actually the one thing has very little to do with the other. The success of the NYPD in bringing crime statistics down is not a function of their internal battle against corruption, it had more to do with a carefully laid out strategy and a spike upwards in the city's economy. In Serpico's day the city was broke, lawlessness ruled, there was a general malaise. Gee, reminds me of ST Domingo in the final days of the HIppo. We are still cleaning that mess up. what is needed here is not death squads and Candeliers; strong-arm tactics can take other forms. Study the reforms instituted under Guiliani's administration and you will see that I am right and that these methods are not impossible here.

I dont think Occam or Einstein would have approved of your interpretation. Here is something else that Einstein recommended:

"Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover and create."

We need more imagination and less knee jerk reaction, fist pounding and gnashing of teeth.

Jojo, I wouldnt worry too much about Santiago, I am sure your wife will be safe. Dont overreact. However, pa' que sepa, your recommendation to "street sweep these scum into a custom built Campo jail with no running water and lots of corporal punishment and dish out to them double whatever they dished out in their life to others" is not so far from reality! I guess you have never actually visited the prisons here. They are hellholes, but they are no deterrent. Prisons never are.

 

[Onions&carrots]

The clock is ticking, TICK, TOCK, TICK,TOCK

In Serpico's day the city was broke, lawlessness ruled, there was a general malaise. Gee, reminds me of ST Domingo in the final days of the HIppo. We are still cleaning that mess up. what is needed here is not death squads and Candeliers; strong-arm tactics can take other forms. Study the reforms instituted under Guiliani's administration and you will see that I am right and that these methods are not impossible here.

We need more imagination and less knee jerk reaction, fist pounding and gnashing of teeth.

Please no red herrings.

You're quite the technocrat. You could sit down with Leonel and his clique while you map out the grand strategy to repair the entire country. Thinking that you can repair one segment of society (PN, Armed forces, crime) whilst neglecting the other is as putting new wine into old wine skins. The whole enchilada (legislative, judicial, economic, presidential, law enforcement, budgeting) would have to be re-engineered before your well conceived plan could function.

And while you're at this grand change, the clock is ticking.....................

47 dead in Bonao in one month versus 25 for all of last year.
30 dead in 20 days in Santiago.
Everyone I speak to is scared of going out at night anywhere.
A general climate of distrust as I have never seen before.
Ambushes in the road leading to Constanza of which I was a personal eyewitness to the events as they transpired before my eyes.
Colmados selling behind iron grates.
Daytime robberies, home invasions, murders as never seen before.


How many more must die before you change your tune?

To place my response as a base emotional instinctual knee jerk reaction shows that the clinical intellectual approach as your answer (Chirimoya, Maco) is nothing more than pride concealed. Its nothing more than a veiled attempt to give the impression that your intellectualization somehow doesn't masquerade its deficiencies.

In theory, you are right but in practice it will take many, many decades to implement. In the interim, the clock is ticking. How many more must die?

TICK, TOCK TICK,TOCK---------

A simple solution to a complex problem:

The time is ripe for a "mano dura" to come in and take over. Re-instate Candelier and the predators will become the prey.

 

[Onions&carrots]

Surely, the loss of any young person is a sad and disturbing event. However, such loss isn't honored by shrill dramatics, cheap sentiment or political exploitation.

Don't you have any patients to attend to?

There is nothing of the sort here. I want the predators to become the prey. I want them to feel the fear they instill in others. The panic when you know your life is at an end and not even God can save you from the clutches of death. I want these scum to feel what they made poor Vanessa feel as she saw the gun pointed to her head and as the bullet entered her skull while feeling that unbelievable rush of the end of all things. That moment in time when such a young child has to feel that inexpressable fear of total absolute death.

So, please don't reduce my posts to such sensationalistic claims. I have truly felt incensed and depressed at what happened to this poor girl. And I wish I had in my power to remedy this situation.

 

[Mirador]

... Study the reforms instituted under Guiliani's administration and you will see that I am right and that these methods are not impossible here.....

What reforms? Not trying to brew controversy, but it is a myth that Mayor Rudy Guiliani single-handedly, supercopped, and conquered, crime in New York City. Actually, Giuliani's “broken windows” approach to disorder and crime-fighting has now been largely discredited, as other factors are now credited for the reduction in crime in NYC since the early 1990s. Among these, the receding 1980s crack cocaine epidemic, the growth in the prison population thanks to the Rockefeller drug laws, the availability of cheap and legal abortions, the economic upturn which provided more jobs and employment opportunities, the availability of low cost housing due to a state run low-cost financing program that allowed over half a million slum dwellers to move out of crime-ridden neighborhoods…

 

[cobraboy]

What reforms? Not trying to brew controversy, but it is a myth that Mayor Rudy Guiliani single-handedly, supercopped, and conquered, crime in New York City. Actually, Giuliani's ?broken windows? approach to disorder and crime-fighting has now been largely discredited, as other factors are now credited for the reduction in crime in NYC since the early 1990s. Among these, the receding 1980s crack cocaine epidemic, the growth in the prison population thanks to the Rockefeller drug laws, the availability of cheap and legal abortions, the economic upturn which provided more jobs and employment opportunities, the availability of low cost housing due to a state run low-cost financing program that allowed over half a million slum dwellers to move out of crime-ridden neighborhoods?

You've stirred controversy.

Specifically, WHO has "discredited" Guilliani. Name(s)/CV, organization, study name, peer review data, methodology, etc.

 

[AZB]

i didn't read the whole thread but after seeing her pictures I am left with a gloomy heart. I know the boy in the photos and I bet I have sen her with him in the plaza. this is a bright young girl from a very decent family.
Now about the robbers:
i am pretty sure they will be well taken care of in the prison. In one of the daily blackouts, the shooter will end up dead from multiple stabbing wounds. Its not so difficult to pay some thug in prison to take of some personal business to your liking.
AZB

 

[Mirador]

i didn't read the whole thread but after seeing her pictures I am left with a gloomy heart. I know the boy in the photos and I bet I have sen her with him in the plaza. this is a bright young girl from a very decent family.
Now about the robbers:
i am pretty sure they will be well taken care of in the prison. In one of the daily blackouts, the shooter will end up dead from multiple stabbing wounds. Its not so difficult to pay some thug in prison to take of some personal business to your liking.
AZB

The suspects are under the protection of the DA's office, away from the jurisdiction of the police, and they have been provided with a public defender. The suspects are now denying involvement in the crime. A weapon has been produced, a 38 cal revolver, but no information on origin or ownership...

 

[Mirador]

social strife in sight?

It is noteworthy that the mainstream media has not covered the march yesterday of thousands of Santiago slum dwellers calling for the release of one of the accused...

 

[Onions&carrots]

It is noteworthy that the mainstream media has not covered the march yesterday of thousands of Santiago slum dwellers calling for the release of one of the accused...

It's probably the one who received the cellphone as payment. This guy should be released. Why would he call his wife on it if he were an accomplice to the crime? I think he should be released for being an ingnorant fellow.

So the suspects are denying involvement, huh. They must of learned their trade well from their deported counterparts-

What to say and What not to say 101- Dummies guide for evading justice around the world.

 

[Rick Snyder]

There have been untold studies concerning prisons in the last 200 years. It is interesting when a study of the prison system is conducted to find out that the only remedy for turning a criminal around has been through education. This fact has been proven time and time again. It is also a fact that the elimination of said criminals has the tendency of turning them around also but with the 100% guarantee that they will never commit a crime again.

Of course when comparing the prison system in places such as the US where prisoners are guaranteed such things as TV, libraries, due process and an appeal process that can last for many years with the prison system here in the DR there is no comparison.

As the feasibility of introducing an educational system within the DR prison system is so far out of the realm of probability and with the terms of prison time being on the average of maybe 3 years then the possibility of turning these criminals around is virtually nonexistent. So what is the answer?

There are those that say the constitutional reform is something that will help but with President Fernandez appointing Monsignor Agripino Núñez Collado to head the organization to draft this reform leads to the possibility and probability of the church implementing their agenda in the drafting and we know their stand on the death penalty.

The possibility of implementing a ‘life in prison’ penalty for criminals would help insure that the worst criminals don’t get back on the streets and possible serve as a sort of deterrent to heinous crimes but with such a penalty as this then the cost must be included in the debate for same.

There are those that propose the elimination of those things that lead to crime but where do you start? Things like poverty, dysfunctional families and a host of other items all seem to point to the causes for people to turn to crime as a way to survive and live.

As I stated in the beginning of this post the many studies done of the prison populations throughout the world all show the criminal that hasn’t been incarcerated due to an act of passion or high on drugs all have one thing in common. This common thread is their lack of education. These same studies show that when an education system is implemented within the prison system those criminals that acquire an education have a tendency to not return to a life of crime. Studies show that the amount of education received is in direct proportion to those criminals not returning to crime once released.

If education within the prison system serves as a compelling deterrent to crime then what is the possibility that education administered to the masses at a young age would facilitate those masses from having to turn to crime at a latter date? Would not this education possible serve as a means to break the perpetual circle of such things as poverty and all those other supposed causes of crime?

Rick

 

[AZB]

The suspects are under the protection of the DA's office, away from the jurisdiction of the police, and they have been provided with a public defender. The suspects are now denying involvement in the crime. A weapon has been produced, a 38 cal revolver, but no information on origin or ownership...

I have just spoken to assistant DA in santiago. It seems the boys will get 30 yrs if convicted. I think these boys will not be able to walk away from it on technicality. This is a serious case and these boys will pay the price.
AZB

 

[drbill]

Telegram for OC

As a high-ranking member of the CAFTA-DR Negotiating Commitee, I co-chair the Intellectual Property Rights Department.

I have recently received several complaints from the Office of Cheap Detective Novels that paragraph after paragraph of copyrighted material is appearing in your DR1 posts, on a regular basis.

Please be reminded that the penalties for such willful and deliberate plagiarism include up to 72 hours of confinement in a really small room outfitted with really big speakers that are turned up really loud, BLARING audio recordings of all your recent posts.

 

[Mirador]

I have just spoken to assistant DA in santiago. It seems the boys will get 30 yrs if convicted. I think these boys will not be able to walk away from it on technicality. This is a serious case and these boys will pay the price.
AZB

AZB, the murder weapon is the key to ths case. The DA aware that the weapon can be traced to the police. This is why the DA hasen't sent the killers to Rafey jail and has kept them away from police custody, for obvious reasons.

 

[AZB]

AZB, the murder weapon is the key to ths case. The DA aware that the weapon can be traced to the police. This is why the DA hasen't sent the killers to Rafey jail and has kept them away from police custody, for obvious reasons.

Ok, I was away so I don't have all the details yet. Thanks and keep us updated on this case.
AZB

 

[Onions&carrots]

Polly wanna a cracker

As a high-ranking member of the CAFTA-DR Negotiating Commitee, I co-chair the Intellectual Property Rights Department.

I have recently received several complaints from the Office of Cheap Detective Novels that paragraph after paragraph of copyrighted material is appearing in your DR1 posts, on a regular basis.

Please be reminded that the penalties for such willful and deliberate plagiarism include up to 72 hours of confinement in a really small room outfitted with really big speakers that are turned up really loud, BLARING audio recordings of all your recent posts.

Don't you have patients to attend to? Its a funny post, that I must say so, LOL.

So I don't qualify as Sherlock Holmes.