Sosua Beach Unions Want More Involvement

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D'Arcy (Apostropheman)

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Here and there
Since I have absolutely nothing in common with all the naysayers and people gloating and excited to watch the anticipated carnage, I'll just step away.

It's a terrible thing, the probable destruction and "modernization" of such a favourite beach to so many, and that so many members here, as usual, want to spout off, be nasty and negative I'll leave it to ya. There's almost no way that this alleged plan will actually improve things, so it's all just a disgusting money grab and control issue that will suck any goodness out of the area, and another step towards the sterilization of Sosua. It's destined to fail :(
 

windeguy

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You might want to bring lots of food and drink just in case things develop in Dominican time. Never can figure out the obvious joy some of you people get out of hard working locals losing their jobs. Must be a subsection of the gringos thing.
News reports indicate this will happen soon. From what I can tell it’s already long overdue. There is no joy in presenting what is the most likely outcome Which is based upon the information the government is presenting. It just is what it will be. As far as I can see most people are miss interpreting the news. One Plaza cannot simply hold all of the vendors. Yes there is a plaza for vendors but that means for some of the vendors.Hence most of the vendors will have nowhere to work and they will have to go. That is how I read the information so far.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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Easy for you to say. A little empathy and sympathy are called for. Not the usual cliches and callousness.
This is DR1 you are asking for way too much for the mostly (expletive deleted) crowd that that is taking a hard line. This is an opinion board and they are allowed to do it. The problem comes because many of them cannot take it that others disagree with them. They break into apoplectic fits that leave them spouting personal attacks on the writers of the divergent opinions instead of the taking issue with the ideas that are being presented.
People's livelihoods and fortunes are at stake, as are hundreds of jobs that will not be replaced. There's virtually no chance for most of the vendors to be allowed, even if they could afford the new investment and what will almost certainly be much higher rents for the new businesses.
All very true. But as I stated before, many of the hardline ideas being expressed are being written by people who have no skin in the gain. They actually have nothing to lose in all this and more likely than not nothing to gain either. But like spectators in the arena of a blood sport they cheer on the economic carnage that will come from this move. Based on what? Property rights? Money? Dislike of the current vibe that exists on the beach?
Who knows?
The cronies of the politicians and those in control of the project will all get rich and our friends, their staff, and families with get screwed over.
You are keeping it straight 💯

Now I am just a poor gringo negro living on EASTSIDE because I come from a low socio economic status and have not been able to improve myself through education, and work because I am a permeant victim due to my DNA making me LEFT handed.
But I am still allowed to have my opinion.

I believe the 🇩🇴 is being sold to highest bidder in an effort to carve the island into pieces for different market segments.
Regular people are being pushed into the areas deemed to be less profitable.
While other areas are being taking in straight gangster like power moves.
🇩🇴 GOV is moving on people like the BORG.
"You will be assimilated
Resistance is futile" 🤪

There are many signs of this.
For those are woke alert and can see clearly through the obfuscation that plagues those who allow their biases and other issues to affect them as they look at issue here and other places throughout the 🇩🇴

On the bright side, there are plenty of unspoiled areas left to enjoy in the Dominican Republic.
I am happy to have found mine.
And I wish the best to those effected by the ruthless money grab.
I hope they make good decisions and move onto bigger and better things.

If I woke and found myself in the middle of street.
With a tank bearing down on me...
And I looked around and saw I had nothing but a rock next to me.
I would not pick it up and fight the tank.
The most tactically sound decision would be to get up on my feet.
Look around for cover.
Find some...
And make a like a track start until I got to it.

Nobody speaks
Nobody gets choked
 

ctrob

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You might want to bring lots of food and drink just in case things develop in Dominican time. Never can figure out the obvious joy some of you people get out of hard working locals losing their jobs. Must be a subsection of the gringos thing.

Show me where I've ever expressed joy even once that people were losing their livelihoods. You can't. We're discussing the inevitable.
 
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CristoRey

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Apr 1, 2014
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If I woke and found myself in the middle of street.
With a tank bearing down on me...

And I looked around and saw I had nothing but a rock next to me.
I would not pick it up and fight the tank.
The most tactically sound decision would be to get up on my feet.
Look around for cover.
Find some...
And make a like a track start until I got to it.

Nobody speaks
Nobody gets choked
A good run is better than a bad stand.
 

windeguy

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What surprises me most about this discussion so far is that people don’t realize that land owners have the right to do whatever they want with their own land within the limits of the laws in the DR. None of these vendors own anything but the name of their businesses whereas property rights are the salient point dismissed out of hand by those who say the vendors have some type of rights to remain or be compensated when they are displaced. Those vendors have no rights under the law.
 

drstock

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What surprises me most about this discussion so far is that people don’t realize that land owners have the right to do whatever they want with their own land within the limits of the laws in the DR. None of these vendors own anything but the name of their businesses whereas property rights are the salient point dismissed out of hand by those who say the vendors have some type of rights to remain or be compensated when they are displaced. Those vendors have no rights under the law.
I think that almost everyone here realises that, but they don't like the negative outcome for the vendors and visitors to the beach.
 

slowmo

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Aug 1, 2016
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I have always had a hard time believing the land owner would let a third party collect rent from the squatters, with none of it filtering back to the land owner. Not sure if any of that matters in this case and as always, will let the gringos explain the legal facts here as they see fit.

Never have had much understanding of rules and regulations in the DR but like everywhere else, money and power can help massage the rules. It is obvious who has the money however power is a little harder to predict.
 

ctrob

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I think that almost everyone here realises that, but they don't like the negative outcome for the vendors and visitors to the beach.

I think most do. But there are some who definitely don't. When they use terms like disgusting money grab, gangster like power moves, ruthless money grab, it's obvious they're clueless. It's a middle class Dominican family that owns the land. They can do whatever they please with their property, whenever they please.
They can choose to let the vendors use the land, as they did for decades. And they can sell it to the highest bidder and concrete towers get built. That's life.

Wherever these people lay their heads down at night in their comfortable homes, there was once a beautiful green forest. But that progress is ok. That progress doesn't bother them, because it benefits them directly. There's a word for that. They just want to dictate what other people can do, without putting up any money of their own. When asked to put up their own money for the cause they scream about, they shut up real quick.
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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When you use terms like "bring a lawn chair to the festivities" that is someone who is taking psychopathic like joy in the misfortune of others.

The mistake the vendors made is that they failed to secure their rights under the law.
But during this time I think the "middle class Dominican family" received benefits.
I have no proof of this.
But my thoughts are individuals are just lying when they say they property owners are the victims here.

The property owners have the right to do with their land whatever the government allows them to do.
But when individuals write that the property owners are the victims here they are insulting the intelligence each and everyone one reading and making posts up in here.
They want us to believe that all the money earned during this entire time by the beach vendors that were on the land in question that not a single peso went into the pockets of the property owners.
I call Bull :poop: ‼️

It amazes me how when you disagree with someone here and they don't like it they start calling names.
They use terms like "clueless" when others use terms and express opinions that they disagree with.
They twist the arguments and cherry pick the points they wish to make in order to...
Benefit themselves?
Keyboard warriors that would never speak to another human being to their face the way they write up in here.
My only regret is that I only have two middle fingers to put up to them.

I have always had a hard time believing the land owner would let a third party collect rent from the squatters, with none of it filtering back to the land owner. Not sure if any of that matters in this case and as always, will let the gringos explain the legal facts here as they see fit.

Never have had much understanding of rules and regulations in the DR but like everywhere else, money and power can help massage the rules. It is obvious who has the money however power is a little harder to predict.
Exactly
And that is what the "property rights" people want us to believe.
I don't believe it.
And they can not prove it.
It is not like the property owners are going to say "Yeah, I been getting paid, but now I can get paid more so @#$% all these people and their livelihoods".
Nah, they got people looking forward to watching.
They are bringing their lawn chairs.
Cause dey luv wachin others git paid.

Nobody speaks
Nobody gets choked
 

cavok

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So far, I've seen no proof that the landowners have received any money from the vendors, nor have I read or heard of any vendors claiming to have paid rent to the owners. In fact, there have been no stories of any vendor paying any rent to anybody that I';ve heard. There have been stories of vendors "buying" the building and business from another vendor.

But, what difference does it make? The vendors are either lessees or squatters. The owner is still the owner and can do with it as he wishes.
 
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Yourmaninvegas

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The property rights people are like the people riding around in one of the cars that roll through the barrio blasting the offers for produce over the loudspeaker 🗣️

When are you property rights people gonna get it through your head that the vendors have no rights.
That the owner can do whatever they wish with the property that the government allows them to do.
I and others have stipulated to that.

So far, I have not seen anyone give a reason why a property owner would allow squatters on their land for years while receiving nothing.

Somebody help me out.
What is the property tax you need to pay the Dominican Government?
Waiting...
1% a year on value over around 151,000 USD
Now if I am wrong I am sure that someone will let me know quick.

Anyone want to guess what the value of the beach front property is?

This is an opinion forum.
And people are expressing their opinions on the actions.
And NONE of you property rights people have explained why the owner would allow this situation to occur and receive no benefit.
It is not like they were absentee owners who returned after many years only to discover their prime piece of real estate is being used without their benefit.

Do the property rights people actually own property in the 🇩🇴?
Or they just talking out the side of the mouth?

Who actually allows a situation like this to happen?
Who among us own property and allows others to use it without our permission all the while not receiving any benefits from it?
 

Yourmaninvegas

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Feb 16, 2016
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I have asked the hard questions and no one has any answers for me.

There are individuals up in here that are saying the "middle class Dominican owners" (as if who owns the property matters) are the victims.
That the Beach Vendor are squatters.
The property owner rights group posting up in here hang their hat on that.

Yes, the Beach Vendors have no rights.
But they actually want me to believe the property owners are the victims here.
That this entire time
Property taxes were due
But the property owners just reached into their pockets and paid property taxes year after year after year.
While knowing others were using their property profitably.
And were not getting anything from it.

🗣️ That does not happen in the real world.

Good thing I don't call names.
Cause if I did I would have long string of them for those trying to sell me that argument.
Ok. Let's just say for the sake of argument that he owner was receiving rent. When the lease is up, the renters have no more rights to the property.
Did you learn that in university or Dominican property management school?
GTF ⁉️
Ok, so you want to make that argument...

All the leases would end on the exact same date simultaneously?
If leases existed they would not.
So some would be renewed and others would need their leases to be bought out and compensated if the owners wanted them to leave by a certain date.

Your argument has been rejected.

Sit Down
Be Humble
 

CristoRey

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Sounds like we'll have a clearer picture of what they are doing very soon
 
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cavok

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Did you learn that in university or Dominican property management school?
GTF ⁉️
Ok, so you want to make that argument...

All the leases would end on the exact same date simultaneously?
If leases existed they would not.
So some would be renewed and others would need their leases to be bought out and compensated if the owners wanted them to leave by a certain date.

Your argument has been rejected.

Sit Down
Be Humble
What in the world are talking about? Your reply makes no sense at all. Everyone knows(except you apparently) that when a lease is up your rights to the property end. As far as leases terminating simultaneously(if they even exist), the owner could easily be extending some of them on a month-to-month basis so the vendors will have to move when he's ready to develop.

You don 't even have what passes for a logical argument.
 

Yourmaninvegas

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2016
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It would not be difficult for you understand if you would simply use the reading comprehension skills that I know you possess.
Yes, leases end.
All at the same time for a strip shopping center...no
Those that did not end by the time the shopping center was going to be torn down would have to be bought out.
That is compensation paid.

Why do you choose to make a circular argument?
I donno kno⁉️

Answer the hard questions about the use of the property before the new deal was made...
You and many others property rights crew are ignoring those.

But the announcement has been made
600 million pesos is 10.9 million dollars.
But the vendors can get loans to get back into the property aimed at the higher than average income people
Who have cars to show up to the beach.
I hope the Dominican Beach goers give the arrogant gringos like those posting about property rights...uh difficulty
🤪
What in the world are talking about? Your reply makes no sense at all. Everyone knows(except you apparently) that when a lease is up your rights to the property end. As far as leases terminating simultaneously(if they even exist), the owner could easily be extending some of them on a month-to-month basis so the vendors will have to move when he's ready to develop.

You don 't even have what passes for a logical argument.
 

Yourmaninvegas

Well-known member
Feb 16, 2016
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For those bored with the current argument...

They can put the people who bore them on ignore.
If they don't know how to do that they can ask for technical support.

Or they could actually try to add to the discussion and write something interesting.
Just saying...

Sit Down
Be Humble
 
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