Sosua Beach Unions Want More Involvement

[Yourmaninvegas]

@windeguy
I have already come up with legal concept: Adverse Possession
It makes many of your previous statements not wrong but "dead wrong" on a factual basis.
It may or not be possible for the Beach Vendors or the Association make a claim and assert their rights.

But as I said before I respect your opinion.
We learn from exposure to the ideas of others.
Thank you for your prompt response and the passionate expression of yours.

I run a very successful business.
I serve Dominicans
I cannot meet their demand.
I wonder all the time why wasn't anyone else doing the business I am doing before I started doing it?

So, no I don't know if the Association has thought of it, or explored it.
But in my opinion, a "hail mary" in court would be preferable to begging for mercy from individuals and a system that does not give a @#$% about them.

 

[windeguy]

@windeguy
I have already come up with legal concept: Adverse Possession
It makes many of your previous statements not wrong but "dead wrong" on a factual basis.

No it does not since nobody has shown that Adverse Possession applies in this case.

It may or not be possible for the Beach Vendors or the Association make a claim and assert their rights.

But as I said before I respect your opinion.
We learn from exposure to the ideas of others.
Thank you for your prompt response and the passionate expression of yours.

I run a very successful business.
I serve Dominicans
I cannot meet their demand.
I wonder all the time why wasn't anyone else doing the business I am doing before I started doing it?

So, no I don't know if the Association has thought of it, or explored it.
But in my opinion, a "hail mary" in court would be preferable to begging for mercy from individuals and a system that does not give a @#$% about them.

Their hail mary time has long passed, They have had years to consider alternatives to being removed.

 

[CristoRey]

As I've said before, I don't expect any of the current vendors ending up in a plaza. The Executive Branch is involved, the President probably walked away with a Penthouse and 10 plaza spots. He didn't fly all the way to Sosua and go home with nothing. The remaining plaza spot leases got handed out to other gov't suits and Presidential cronies. Those plaza spots are valuable money makers because of the location and the future condos/Hotel. I'm sure they're long gone.

Comments like "relocation of all members...plazas" is just fluff and BS to keep the beach vendors calm and compliant till it's too late.

I've been thinking the same.
Big money is coming in and the vendors will most likely all end up being sacrifical lambs in the name of progress. Sucks but this administration is not the all talk no action PLD so many of us long time residents are used too.

 

[ramesses]

As I've said before, I don't expect any of the current vendors ending up in a plaza. The Executive Branch is involved, the President probably walked away with a Penthouse and 10 plaza spots. He didn't fly all the way to Sosua and go home with nothing. The remaining plaza spot leases got handed out to other gov't suits and Presidential cronies. Those plaza spots are valuable money makers because of the location and the future condos/Hotel. I'm sure they're long gone.

Comments like "relocation of all members...plazas" is just fluff and BS to keep the beach vendors calm and compliant till it's too late.

I know you are hoping this is the case but you have to let us dream. We all know corruption will win and the people with money and connections will get these spots. There is no way in hell the government would give these contracts to regular business people...it will be crony's.

 

[windeguy]

I've been thinking the same.
Big money is coming in and the vendors will most likely all end up being sacrifical lambs in the name of progress. Sucks but this administration is not the all talk no action PLD so many of us long time residents are used too.

The oft fumbled plans to clean up Sosua, so to speak under the PLD. Now the new guys seem that they will actually do something with respect to the beach.

Previously there was an attempt to shift of prostitution to the east. there were talks to various hoteliers like Marriott and only one "branded" property was opened, as well as revamping Sosua Beach. It isn't just one thing. It has been a very slow process and still not much has really happened.

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

@windeguy
I enjoy how you simply state that nothing is possible because you say it is not.
What law school did you attend in the Dominican Republic?
Can you practice law (tiene licenciado en derecho) in the Dominican Republic?
If you examine the elements of the legal principle of Adverse Possession there are some that apply in this case.
So you are not in the position to state if it a valid legal principle in this case or not.
Of course you are allowed to have your opinion.

It is not impossible to fight...
Here is a project that was stopped by local people in Santo Domingo:

Dominican Republic – Hard Rock pulls out of Santo Domingo project

Hard Rock International has announced its decision to pull out of the building of a large scale casino in capital Santo Domingo. The announcement comes after growing opposition amongst locals belonging to the neighbourhood of Piantini and surrounding areas who had vowed to oppose the building of...

g3newswire.com

 

[CristoRey]

@windeguy
I enjoy how you simply state that nothing is possible because you say it is not.
What law school did you attend in the Dominican Republic?
Can you practice law (tiene licenciado en derecho) in the Dominican Republic?
If you examine the elements of the legal principle of Adverse Possession there are some that apply in this case.
So you are not in the position to state if it a valid legal principle in this case or not.
Of course you are allowed to have your opinion.

It is not impossible to fight...
Here is a project that was stopped by local people in Santo Domingo:

Dominican Republic – Hard Rock pulls out of Santo Domingo project

Hard Rock International has announced its decision to pull out of the building of a large scale casino in capital Santo Domingo. The announcement comes after growing opposition amongst locals belonging to the neighbourhood of Piantini and surrounding areas who had vowed to oppose the building of...

g3newswire.com

This project was indeed stopped...
by some of the wealtiest residents in the country.

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

The positive thing is that it will still be a public beach.
The question is will the government allow a land grab in the 60 meter area with "non permanent" structures.
If you don't understand, ask me to explain.
If you have ever been to an area with resorts that sit right on the beach...you understand what I am talking about.

 

[windeguy]

@windeguy
I enjoy how you simply state that nothing is possible because you say it is not.
What law school did you attend in the Dominican Republic?
Can you practice law (tiene licenciado en derecho) in the Dominican Republic?
If you examine the elements of the legal principle of Adverse Possession there are some that apply in this case.
So you are not in the position to state if it a valid legal principle in this case or not.
Of course you are allowed to have your opinion.

My point is you are not in the position to state that it does apply and that my statements are wrong.
I stand by my statements. The people running the show for the unions would already have come up with this approach if it had a chance to work.

It is not impossible to fight...
Here is a project that was stopped by local people in Santo Domingo:

Dominican Republic – Hard Rock pulls out of Santo Domingo project

Hard Rock International has announced its decision to pull out of the building of a large scale casino in capital Santo Domingo. The announcement comes after growing opposition amongst locals belonging to the neighbourhood of Piantini and surrounding areas who had vowed to oppose the building of...

g3newswire.com

They can fight, yes. And they will lose.

 

[windeguy]

The positive thing is that it will still be a public beach.

True. That much I certainly agree with.

The question is will the government allow a land grab in the 60 meter area with "non permanent" structures.

No it will not. They finally cleared out those land grabbing structures at Encuentro just a few miles east once the corrupt local leaders were gone. They are not going to go through that again and it is not part of the plan as stated in the news.

If you don't understand, ask me to explain.
If you have ever been to an area with resorts that sit right on the beach...you understand what I am talking about.

No need on that. It won't happen on Sosua Beach.

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

As I've said before, I don't expect any of the current vendors ending up in a plaza. The Executive Branch is involved, the President probably walked away with a Penthouse and 10 plaza spots. He didn't fly all the way to Sosua and go home with nothing. The remaining plaza spot leases got handed out to other gov't suits and Presidential cronies. Those plaza spots are valuable money makers because of the location and the future condos/Hotel. I'm sure they're long gone.

Comments like "relocation of all members...plazas" is just fluff and BS to keep the beach vendors calm and compliant till it's too late.

You are keeping it 💯

My point is you are not in the position to state that it does apply and that my statements are wrong.

If you have made statements of fact about the rights that the Beach Vendors have or do not...then they are wrong.
I respect your opinions.

I stand by my statements.

I am not asking you to change your opinions.
But failing to acknowledge that the legal argument for Adverse Possession exists is an oversight that you have consistently made each time you have responded to my posts.
You are in no position to state as a fact that it does not apply.

They can fight, yes. And they will lose.

Is the above a statement a fact or are you expressing your opinion once again?

True. That much I certainly agree with.

Well, well, well, even a broken clock is right at least two times a day. If not stuck in military time. Then only once a day.

No it will not. They finally cleared out those land grabbing structures at Encuentro just a few miles east once the corrupt local leaders were gone. They are not going to go through that again and it is not part of the plan as stated in the news.

I am beginning to question your reading comprehension skills.
"non permanent" structures
Refers to those areas that get blocked off on the public beach area by private business who want to place tables, chairs and other facilities that are focused on sales of their business for the exclusive us of their clients. Even thought they are using the public area of the beach to their advantage.

I see it all over the beaches here in the Dominican Republic. And I have been to more than a few in all parts of the Dominican Republic.

And with the mafia like power move that the government is making...
What keeps the government from turning a blind eye to the exact same activity that they are complaining about once the businesses are in the "right" hands as defined by them?

No need on that. It won't happen on Sosua Beach.

Are stating this as a fact because you have some sort of inside knowledge or is just simply another one of your statements of opinion?

 

[AlaPlaya]

But failing to acknowledge that the legal argument for Adverse Possession exists is an oversight that you have consistently made each time you have responded to my posts.
You are in no position to state as a fact that it does not apply.

@windeguy and I discussed it above, posts 798 and 799. Perhaps you missed them.

 

[Yourmaninvegas]

What I read in post #798 is that someone writing they don't know what the law is in the Dominican Republic.
I did not find that helpful.
What I read in post 799 is that someone posted a lot of internet articles but once again in acknowledged that they don't know the law.
Once again unhelpful in determining if any rights exist for the Beach Vendors or Association in this case.

@AlaPlaya

@windeguy seems to have not problems beating on his keyboard and making his points known without your help
Review post #805, #807, #814 where the individual takes the position that he does not know if the law applies but he is right in everything he says about the rights of the Beach Vendors or the Association.
Perhaps you missed them.

If he is making statements of facts...he is not wrong...but dead wrong.
If he is making statements of opinion...I respect his and I respect yours.
We learn by exposing ourselves to different perspectives.

I got no problem tacking into the wind.
I know how to sail.
Do you?

 

[windeguy]

I just did as someone above suggested and looked at the distance from the ocean, (not necessarily even high tide which would be even more businesses) to most of the business on Sosua beach

It seems more than half are within the 60 meter public area. Are they eligible for squatters rights because the government ignored
this for so long?

I did a search for DR squatters rights actual laws, and google was no help at all. Not that it matters what the laws are in this case. Did those still arguing about squatters rights not read that the association has come to an agreement?

 

[jd426]

I just did as someone above suggested and looked at the distance from the ocean, (not necessarily even high tide which would be even more businesses) to most of the business on Sosua beach

It seems more than half are within the 60 meter public area. Are they eligible for squatters rights because the government ignored
this for so long?

I did a search for DR squatters rights actual laws, and google was no help at all. Not that it matters what the laws are in this case. Did those still arguing about squatters rights not read that the association has come to an agreement?

So the question again begs

if this is as high as 50% of the vendors , who are INSIDE the 60 Meters ,

who are those specific Vendors paying RENT to ? Please don't say Poseidon . The Ancient Greek God of the Ocean

The People who built on the PRIVATE Land which is supposedly owned by some " middle class Dominican Family"
ok fine that is a completely different matter , maybe they even had LEASES .


I am saying
If you are STUPID enough to pay RENT for SAND which Belongs to the OCEAN / the Govt
How in the world do you not realize that you have been Suckered all these years ..
you got ripped off , and you have Zero Rights to that Sand , nor the shack you built on it ..

 

[habi]

Google translated the above:



For some reason, I don't believe that anything close all of the current association members will be in that new square to be constructed. Anyone think this will house 50 odd businesses? Nor does this account agree with other reports that there will be ONE plaza and TWO restaurants in other locations with associated bathrooms. I think Detras is detras on this one. But that is just me.

The only one talking about only two restaurants is you! Still misreading the article i did post before #679
The two restaurants and the bathrooms are mentioned in the part where they talk about THE PAST of
Playa Sosua....

PUERTO PLATA.- El Gobierno anunció que ya se realizó la adjudicación tras las licitaciones de rigor para emprender la regeneración de la playa de Sosúa, lo cual conlleva una inversión millonaria

Dicho anuncio fue realizado por el ministro de Turismo, David Collado, quien aseguró que en los próximos días el presidente de la República, Luis Abinader, dará el primer picazo para iniciar esa obra ascendente a 600 millones de pesos.


Collado sostuvo que en playa Sosuua ............................ los directivos de la Asociación de Vendedores de Artesanías (AVAPS) para lograr un consenso.

Historia del desarrollo en la playa de Sosúa

Según apunta ...............
En el 1916, luego de un terremoto y una plaga de parásitos, la empresa United Fruit Company abandonó la zona y arrendó el hotel a la familia Tavares Grieser, iniciándose un proceso de remodelación de las casas.

De igual manera, se dispuso la construcción de múltiples edificaciones para dedicarlas a fomentar el turismo familiar, también fueron construidos dos pequeños restaurantes con sus respectivos baños, para el servicio de los visitantes a la playa de Sosúa.

......................................

And regarding the plazas. The CEIZTUR litacion was for two and the new acuerdo is that they would be building 3.....

Comité Ejecutor de Infraestructuras de Zonas Turisticas | CEIZTUR - Licitaciones públicas nacionales e internacionales - CEIZTUR-CCC-LPN-2022-0003

Comité Ejecutor de Infraestructuras de Zonas Turisticas | CEIZTUR

ceiztur.gob.do

Autoridades y vendedores llegan acuerdo para intervención y ordenamiento de playa Sosúa

Dicho funcionario gubernamental garantizo que en el proyecto de remozamiento de Playa Sosúa, los vendedores serán reubicados ya que en vez de una serán construidas tres plazas mediante una alianza entre los sectores Público-Privado.

puertoplatadigital.com

BTW any idea what beach is on that photo in the articel? ​

 

[windeguy]

Habi , you are correct, that is the past regarding two restaurants with bathrooms.
There will be only the plaza with a few businesses with as yet unknown tenants,

Oh, wait, a new story with Three plazas and not just One. It's hard to tell the players without a score card. Who's on First?
All is now good and all vendors will have new spots.

 

[Northern Coast Diver]

As I write, Sosua is full of National Police, Digisett, and the First Regiment Presidential Guard. Beach access by foot only. We are waiting for the President to arrive to break ground on the beach improvements. I can hear the choppers landing now!

 

[ctrob]

As I write, Sosua is full of National Police, Digisett, and the First Regiment Presidential Guard. Beach access by foot only. We are waiting for the President to arrive to break ground on the beach improvements. I can hear the choppers landing now!

Cool. I hope somebody posts some photos. I would, but not in town right now.

 

[Big]

As I write, Sosua is full of National Police, Digisett, and the First Regiment Presidential Guard. Beach access by foot only. We are waiting for the President to arrive to break ground on the beach improvements. I can hear the choppers landing now!

way cool. Did they scurry the chicas away as well ?