The Haitian Genetics Thread

[pollogringo]

You just don't understand my remarks then. If you want to discuss this topic at length please start another thread and I will join you there.

He understands them just fine.

 

[explorer1]

I respectfully disagree with part of this. Slavery was actually generating a great deal of wealth (too much, in comparison to the north, for the taste of northerners), due to the fact that the purchase of a slave for a few hundered dollars each generation or so was far, far more economically parsimonious than paying a free person by the hour, day, week or month for that same generation. The economic conditions, under the auspices of slavery, yielded a significant competitive advantage in favor of slave states. Even with machines, it is far more economically viable to own one's employee for, say forty years at a time, than to pay a wage, decent or not, and have to treat him/her with the respect due a fully recognized human being.

As for economics as a field of study... well, suffice it to say that the jury has been, is, and likely will be out for quite some time. It is not a hard science, and not due the respect it is afforded by the masses.

I do agree, however, that humanism had nothing to do with the abolition of slavery. Just sayin'...

 

[jabejuventus]

Yeah, times were achangin. Your into the 19th Century and out of the Caribbean. Smith is 18th Century. At the turn of these centuries the Industrial Revolution was taking hold over the Agricultural Revolution. The writing was on the wall. Change was driven by economy. Tractors do the work of many today. Technology replaced dependence on slave labor.

 

[AlterEgo]

This had better steer back to Haitian genetics if it's going to stay open.

 

[jabejuventus]

Another interesting perspective. See ya.

 

[K-Mel]

As a trained (former) researcher, with graduate degrees in research, statistics and education, I can tell you that relying on "books", "names", and "facts" is to buy into the fallacy (drink the kool-aid, if you will) that those with a formal education are: 1. incapable of lying, 2. inherently competent, and 3. immune to subjectivity. I assure you, sir, that this is not the case. Common sense is something that has withstood the onslaught of "authoritative sources", as is evidenced by the fact that many of us recognize that the image of a man bearing a striking resemblance to Willie Nelson is not likely an accurate representation of Jesus, for example. As for "mythologies", books, experts, trained academicians, and the like have convinced many of us that 1. the New World was of no significance until "discovered" by Europeans, 2. that Egyptians were white (e.g. The Ten Comandments, of DeMille fame), 3. that all Native American tribes were peaceful until the White guy showed up, and 4.that all slaves were "captured" by Europeans, without the aid of Black (or African, if you like) people. These are just a few examples of how "names" "facts" and "dates" can be deceiving, to say the least. In my estimation, many of the most intelligent people I have known have had comparatively little in the way of a formal education. In contrast, I have known many a moron with a doctorate, especially in the social sciences arena. Just sayin'...

Sir, first I have been trained in the best universities in Europe ( 2 masters degrees , one in Finance, one in accounting and Audit, and one master of research degree in Econometrics and finance with honors), I am not an historian but currently working as as an executive in Investment banking ( specialized in fixed income ) and Asset management areas.

2nd, I haven't reached my 40 years and I don't know everything, so I am still studying like a " dog" because I KNOW that I am still ignorant ( just have to look at my library to know this fact).

As I said to Franck you can't just say things without proof, and I repeat I have been studying slavery ( antiquity, middle age, and the African slave trade) for years, and you have classics books that you should refer too. George scelle is the master author about the asientos, I am sorry if you don't know him, so obviously you are a neophyte in slavery history,

Same is available for economics, if you haven't read Ricardo, Smith, Keynes, or Marx, you are not an economist. If you haven't studied econometrics and financial mathematics you can't be a good investment banker or asset manager.

My motto is study first then debate, or if you say things without being sure, one should used " may be"...Saying that Africans sold Africans to Europeans is a BIG FAT LIE...now we can't debate this here and I am not able to do it on the Off topic area...so...to each his own view of history.

 

[frank recktenwald]

Sir, first I have been trained in the best universities in Europe ( 2 masters degrees , one in Finance, one in accounting and Audit, and one master of research degree in Econometrics and finance with honors), I am not an historian but currently working as as an executive in Investment banking ( specialized in fixed income ) and Asset management areas.

2nd, I haven't reached my 40 years and I don't know everything, so I am still studying like a " dog" because I KNOW that I am still ignorant ( just have to look at my library to know this fact).

As I said to Franck you can't just say things without proof, and I repeat I have been studying slavery ( antiquity, middle age, and the African slave trade) for years, and you have classics books that you should refer too. George scelle is the master author about the asientos, I am sorry if you don't know him, so obviously you are a neophyte in slavery history,

Same is available for economics, if you haven't read Ricardo, Smith, Keynes, or Marx, you are not an economist. If you haven't studied econometrics and financial mathematics you can't be a good investment banker or asset manager.

My motto is study first then debate, or if you say things without being sure, one should used " may be"...Saying that Africans sold Africans to Europeans is a BIG FAT LIE...now we can't debate this here and I am not able to do it on the Off topic area...so...to each his own view of history.

Melly, get of your high horse and get your head out of your arse.
Africans have sold their fellow Africans for centuries and they still do.
This is common knowledge you know like the Holocaust, maybe the universities you attended didn't train you as well as you might think they have.
By the way are you French or Belgium? Just asking the way you spell my name

 

[K-Mel]

Melly, get of your high horse and get your head out of your arse.
Africans have sold their fellow Africans for centuries and they still do.
This is common knowledge you know like the Holocaust, maybe the universities you attended didn't train you as well as you might think they have.
By the way are you French or Belgium? Just asking the way you spell my name

This is your view ( dumb and racist) but we are in democracy and everybody has the right to speak his own mind, so it's OK with me.

PS: I am still waiting for your solid references Einstein, and not from the garbage you are uttering ( you are rude man)

 

[K-Mel]

If you want lo learn about African slavery send me a PM and I'll school you, Henry Gates ( your only reference so far for a so called specialist) is not qualified, if you had said Hugh Thomas, Philip Curtin, Patrick Manning, Jos? Antonio Saco, Rolando Mellafe, Luis Diaz Soler,Fernando Ortiz, Charles Verliden, Gaston Martin, Lucien Peytraud etc, etc may be I would have give some attention...

 

[bob saunders]

If you want lo learn about African slavery send me a PM and I'll school you, Henry Gates ( your only reference so far for a so called specialist) is not qualified, if you had said Hugh Thomas, Philip Curtin, Patrick Manning, Jos? Antonio Saco, Rolando Mellafe, Luis Diaz Soler,Fernando Ortiz, Charles Verliden, Gaston Martin, Lucien Peytraud etc, etc may be I would have give some attention...

If you are talking about African slavery you would have some African experts, but you are talking about slavery in the new world, correct?

 

[K-Mel]

If you are talking about African slavery you would have some African experts, but you are talking about slavery in the new world, correct?

African slavery in the new world of course, Claude Meissalloux ( French), Boubacar Barry ( Guinea), Orlando Patterson (Jamaican), Lovejoy, Joseph Inikori ( Nigeria), Sylviane Diouf ( Senegal), Ibrahima Thioub ( Senegal) are more specialized on the events who occurred in Africa during the slave trade. I repeat one can't just pull facts out of his "arse" (Franck's dearest word).

 

[the gorgon]

If you are talking about African slavery you would have some African experts, but you are talking about slavery in the new world, correct?

quick question, bob; where did the slaves in the New World come from?

 

[K-Mel]

quick question, bob; where did the slaves in the New World come from?

Gracias...

 

[bob saunders]

quick question, bob; where did the slaves in the New World come from?

Still a misnomer- African slave trade is Africans owning slaves, which they did and do. The African slave traders did sell Africans to the Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish...etc., slave traders to transport to the Americas. Of course the indentured Irish ...etc were slaves as well, just not for life.

 

[K-Mel]

Still a misnomer- African slave trade is Africans owning slaves, which they did and do. The African slave traders did sell Africans to the Portuguese, Dutch, Spanish...etc., slave traders to transport to the Americas. Of course the indentured Irish ...etc were slaves as well, just not for life.

0/20, absolutely false and ignorance at his best.So I am asking to you ( no Google research please) what are your references ?

Please answer to the following questions ( Franky you are invited to this exercice)

1. Which African nations had slaves in plantations ?
2. Why did the Portuguese had to wage a war against the jagas of Congo ?
3. Why the king of Congo Dom Affonso sent a letter to the king of Portugal in the 16th century ?
4. How the Portuguese got their first slaves in Africa ( North Africa) ? Were they looking for slaves or for help against the moors ?
5. How the Portuguese and Spaniards got their European slaves during the middle age ( from Russia, Greece, Circassia, Turkey etc)?
6. What was the name of the Portuguese slave traders in West Africa ?
7. How do you explain that the first quilombos were in Congo before the new world ( Brazil) ?
8. Please provide the name of 20 African kings who sold African slaves to Europeans ?
9. Why Brazilians went to Angola to fight the Portuguese?
10. Why European nations used first native Indians , then European slaves in the new world ?
11. Why 99,99 % of the slave population in Europe were Europeans from antiquity to the discovery of Africa by the Portuguese ?

I am waiting for your answers...No GOOGLING please...

 

[frank recktenwald]

If you want lo learn about African slavery send me a PM and I'll school you, Henry Gates ( your only reference so far for a so called specialist) is not qualified, if you had said Hugh Thomas, Philip Curtin, Patrick Manning, Jos? Antonio Saco, Rolando Mellafe, Luis Diaz Soler,Fernando Ortiz, Charles Verliden, Gaston Martin, Lucien Peytraud etc, etc may be I would have give some attention...

If I wanna learn about the Holocaust would I ask the guy who says it has never occurred? Wouldn't make sense would it?

 

[K-Mel]

If I wanna learn about the Holocaust would I ask the guy who says it has never occurred? Wouldn't make sense would it?

Listen man even your argumentation is weak so I won't waste my time with ignorant people like you ( according to you Henry Gates is a specialist of the African slave trade LOL)...now if you speak about the ww2 holocaust it definitely happened however I would suggest you to read this on top of that:

Hitler's Jewish Soldiers: The Untold Story of Nazi Racial Laws and Men of Jewish Descent in the German Military (Modern War Studies): Bryan Mark Rigg: 9780700613588: Amazon.com: Books

Amazon.com: Lives of Hitler's Jewish Soldiers: Untold Tales of Men of Jewish Descent Who Fought for the Third Reich (Modern War Studies) (9780700616381): Bryan Mark Rigg: Books

We are not playing on the same league man, go back to your reading and stop telling facts that you haven't checked by yourself : ignorance starts like this...

 

[Chip]

Slavery in Africa has existed for thousands of years. Africans are no worse or better than any other people and like all others have sold people into slavery. How else do you think the pyramids were built??? Anything else is revisionist history.

 

[AlterEgo]

If you want to continuing discussion of African slave trade, start a thread in Off Topic.

This one is closed.